Caravan Trade on Athas question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Caravan Trade on Athas question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tyrantlobe
Dec 14, 2010 12:07:38 This is likely a dumb question, but I can't seem to come up with a satisfying answer on my own, so here's a hypothetical trade situation:

House Inika specializes in spices out of Gulg. House Wavir specializes in sliver out of Balic.

Inika sends a caravan loaded with spice to Balic, and sells all their product. Would they then return home empty and prepare for another run, or would they buy silver in bulk from Wavir while in Balic, return to Gulg and sell the silver in their home city? Would Wavir sell silver to Inika and allow them to do this or would Wavir bother sending a caravan with silver to Gulg, knowing that an Inika caravan was returning to Gulg with a load of silver they purchased from Wavir?

Just trying to understand what a caravan would do when it arrives in another city, basically. Would it return home empty and load up again, or would it load up on goods from the other city to sell at home? What would the incentive be for the other merchant houses to sell to a visiting caravan, knowing they're going to turn around and re-sell it for a profit when they return to their home city?

Thanks for any help.
#2
diggles
Dec 14, 2010 12:15:15 I would imagine they would stock their caravan with whatever they can get for a good price.
Buy low, sell high.

There is probably enough materials & goods that need to be moved that caravans are NEVER empty
#3
tomtill
Dec 14, 2010 12:18:37
This is likely a dumb question, but I can't seem to come up with a satisfying answer on my own, so here's a hypothetical trade situation:

House Inika specializes in spices out of Gulg. House Wavir specializes in sliver out of Balic.

Inika sends a caravan loaded with spice to Balic, and sells all their product. Would they then return home empty and prepare for another run, or would they buy silver in bulk from Wavir while in Balic, return to Gulg and sell the silver in their home city? Would Wavir sell silver to Inika and allow them to do this or would Wavir bother sending a caravan with silver to Gulg, knowing that an Inika caravan was returning to Gulg with a load of silver they purchased from Wavir?

Just trying to understand what a caravan would do when it arrives in another city, basically. Would it return home empty and load up again, or would it load up on goods from the other city to sell at home? What would the incentive be for the other merchant houses to sell to a visiting caravan, knowing they're going to turn around and re-sell it for a profit when they return to their home city?

Thanks for any help.

I would imagine that neither house would "send" a caravan. The caravan owner is an independent businessman who makes money buying low in one place and selling high in another. He may also accept transportation fees to carry goods for third parties.
#4
fromost_the_grimm_02
Dec 14, 2010 13:41:31 In a word, 'yes'.

Little love is lost between the various mercantile houses, and the major houses are where they are due to making wise, and sometimes harsh deals. Athas is a dog eat dog world, after all.

Shipping a large load of cargo from one corner of the Tablelands isn't a small undertaking; even a well armed and armoured caravan such as Stel argosy is tempting to a peckish drake. Merchant leaders don't undertake such journeys lightly because of the ever-present risk of losing the whole cargo. As such, each leg of such caravan would be well planned out, with cargo unloaded where most efficient, and new stock bought and loaded up. This is where the skill of wheeling and dealing comes in to play, organising purchases ahead of time, and having them ready when the caravan comes through. An empty caravan is simply lost profit.

That said though, trade is fickle, and Gulg in particular have peculiar trading practices. On the one hand, a caravan from Balic unloading a shipment of silver then picking up a bunch of spices for the return trip would eat into Inika's profits, and I think it's a given that the spice suppliers would sell those spices to Wavir at a different rate than they would to Inika. On the other hand, a city-state without active trade is a dead city-state, so this reciprocative deal needs to still be lucrative, or else there's simply no reason for Wavir to send a caravan to Gulg unless the profit from their silver trade is worth it alone.

Also, don't forget trade forts. Why would two such caravans both travel from one side of the desert to the other when they could meet in the middle? Trade villages such as Altaruk are placed centrally and are profitable for this reason. And lastly, Athas is a big place; a Wavir caravan taking sliver to Gulg would be a profitable journey, Wavir then solely buying spices for the return leg, however, may not be due to Gulg's trade practices ... however a partial shipment of spices in addition to Gulgan wood, bone fetishes and fabrics to be traded at Tyr on the return journey, plus a stop-off in Altaruk for a small but lucrative deal with House Ardian for gold for Balic's nobles would make a rounder, more diverse and more profitable journey altogether.
#5
big_goon
Dec 14, 2010 13:47:13
I would imagine that neither house would "send" a caravan. The caravan owner is an independent businessman who makes money buying low in one place and selling high in another. He may also accept transportation fees to carry goods for third parties.

Yeah. I agree with this. Individual caravans tend to be associated with merchant houses. Kind of like house franchizes work in the modern world - like McDonalds. The original company "leases" the rights to buy, process and sell McDonalds products to the customer under the McDonalds label. The franchise organizes provides, contacts, reaserch and distribution.

So when the books say that House Wavir deals in Silver in Balic, that probably means they own a monopoly (or near enough to) on the providers of Silver in Balic. A caravan not associated with Wavir arriving in Balic would only be able to purchase Silver from House Wavir at an inflated price. They could buy the products in Balic from Wavir and return with in to Gulg for sell... but they would be unable to compete against somebody who has an associate with Wavir. If there were no House Wavir caravans in Gulg to compete against, there will be soon... any merchant would definitely be interested in a quick return while the opportunity presented itself. However, they couldn't conduct this opperation long. Wavir would quickly catch wind ("hmm... was is this merchant buying so much Silver from us?"), investigate, and quickly tell their friends to take Silver to where there's demand - Gulg.

When a caravan not associated with House Wavir returns from Balic to Gulg, they are probably carrying goods that are worth less profit return (Silt Horror charms, Balikite weapons and war machines, smoked sand shark steaks, etc). They haven't "paid" for the services (providers, contacts, healing, money lending, caravan provisions, mounts and weapons) that House Wavir offers but would have access to independent providers and services (differing quality/price/risk?).
#6
BRJN
Dec 23, 2010 19:12:17 Well, two thoughts.

1) Triangle trade. Maybe going back-and-forth isn't such a good idea, but stopping off somewhere else along the way for other goods will make it worthwhile. This need not be the same place in both directions - a quadrangle.

2) Look into how the IRL railroads collect boxcars from customers, put them together into a train, and send it to another sorting yard. Each city on Athas acts like the division-point yard where the train is taken apart into its component cars, they are shuffled based on destination, and new trains are sent out. Think of a caravan as the train and each animal as a boxcar. At a caravan stop (not just an oasis), the animals will be shuffled and sent on to their next destination; the caravan does not stay together and whole all the way across Athas. Narvik the Caravan Master might travel from Balic to Gulg, but he will have different animals/cargoes when he arrives at Gulg than he had when he left Balic. Except perhaps for his personal mount ( = the caboose?).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tyrantlobe Dec 14, 2010 12:07:38	This is likely a dumb question, but I can't seem to come up with a satisfying answer on my own, so here's a hypothetical trade situation: House Inika specializes in spices out of Gulg. House Wavir specializes in sliver out of Balic. Inika sends a caravan loaded with spice to Balic, and sells all their product. Would they then return home empty and prepare for another run, or would they buy silver in bulk from Wavir while in Balic, return to Gulg and sell the silver in their home city? Would Wavir sell silver to Inika and allow them to do this or would Wavir bother sending a caravan with silver to Gulg, knowing that an Inika caravan was returning to Gulg with a load of silver they purchased from Wavir? Just trying to understand what a caravan would do when it arrives in another city, basically. Would it return home empty and load up again, or would it load up on goods from the other city to sell at home? What would the incentive be for the other merchant houses to sell to a visiting caravan, knowing they're going to turn around and re-sell it for a profit when they return to their home city? Thanks for any help.
#2 diggles Dec 14, 2010 12:15:15	I would imagine they would stock their caravan with whatever they can get for a good price. Buy low, sell high. There is probably enough materials & goods that need to be moved that caravans are NEVER empty
#3 tomtill Dec 14, 2010 12:18:37	This is likely a dumb question, but I can't seem to come up with a satisfying answer on my own, so here's a hypothetical trade situation: House Inika specializes in spices out of Gulg. House Wavir specializes in sliver out of Balic. Inika sends a caravan loaded with spice to Balic, and sells all their product. Would they then return home empty and prepare for another run, or would they buy silver in bulk from Wavir while in Balic, return to Gulg and sell the silver in their home city? Would Wavir sell silver to Inika and allow them to do this or would Wavir bother sending a caravan with silver to Gulg, knowing that an Inika caravan was returning to Gulg with a load of silver they purchased from Wavir? Just trying to understand what a caravan would do when it arrives in another city, basically. Would it return home empty and load up again, or would it load up on goods from the other city to sell at home? What would the incentive be for the other merchant houses to sell to a visiting caravan, knowing they're going to turn around and re-sell it for a profit when they return to their home city? Thanks for any help. I would imagine that neither house would "send" a caravan. The caravan owner is an independent businessman who makes money buying low in one place and selling high in another. He may also accept transportation fees to carry goods for third parties.
#4 fromost_the_grimm_02 Dec 14, 2010 13:41:31	In a word, 'yes'. Little love is lost between the various mercantile houses, and the major houses are where they are due to making wise, and sometimes harsh deals. Athas is a dog eat dog world, after all. Shipping a large load of cargo from one corner of the Tablelands isn't a small undertaking; even a well armed and armoured caravan such as Stel argosy is tempting to a peckish drake. Merchant leaders don't undertake such journeys lightly because of the ever-present risk of losing the whole cargo. As such, each leg of such caravan would be well planned out, with cargo unloaded where most efficient, and new stock bought and loaded up. This is where the skill of wheeling and dealing comes in to play, organising purchases ahead of time, and having them ready when the caravan comes through. An empty caravan is simply lost profit. That said though, trade is fickle, and Gulg in particular have peculiar trading practices. On the one hand, a caravan from Balic unloading a shipment of silver then picking up a bunch of spices for the return trip would eat into Inika's profits, and I think it's a given that the spice suppliers would sell those spices to Wavir at a different rate than they would to Inika. On the other hand, a city-state without active trade is a dead city-state, so this reciprocative deal needs to still be lucrative, or else there's simply no reason for Wavir to send a caravan to Gulg unless the profit from their silver trade is worth it alone. Also, don't forget trade forts. Why would two such caravans both travel from one side of the desert to the other when they could meet in the middle? Trade villages such as Altaruk are placed centrally and are profitable for this reason. And lastly, Athas is a big place; a Wavir caravan taking sliver to Gulg would be a profitable journey, Wavir then solely buying spices for the return leg, however, may not be due to Gulg's trade practices ... however a partial shipment of spices in addition to Gulgan wood, bone fetishes and fabrics to be traded at Tyr on the return journey, plus a stop-off in Altaruk for a small but lucrative deal with House Ardian for gold for Balic's nobles would make a rounder, more diverse and more profitable journey altogether.
#5 big_goon Dec 14, 2010 13:47:13	I would imagine that neither house would "send" a caravan. The caravan owner is an independent businessman who makes money buying low in one place and selling high in another. He may also accept transportation fees to carry goods for third parties. Yeah. I agree with this. Individual caravans tend to be associated with merchant houses. Kind of like house franchizes work in the modern world - like McDonalds. The original company "leases" the rights to buy, process and sell McDonalds products to the customer under the McDonalds label. The franchise organizes provides, contacts, reaserch and distribution. So when the books say that House Wavir deals in Silver in Balic, that probably means they own a monopoly (or near enough to) on the providers of Silver in Balic. A caravan not associated with Wavir arriving in Balic would only be able to purchase Silver from House Wavir at an inflated price. They could buy the products in Balic from Wavir and return with in to Gulg for sell... but they would be unable to compete against somebody who has an associate with Wavir. If there were no House Wavir caravans in Gulg to compete against, there will be soon... any merchant would definitely be interested in a quick return while the opportunity presented itself. However, they couldn't conduct this opperation long. Wavir would quickly catch wind ("hmm... was is this merchant buying so much Silver from us?"), investigate, and quickly tell their friends to take Silver to where there's demand - Gulg. When a caravan not associated with House Wavir returns from Balic to Gulg, they are probably carrying goods that are worth less profit return (Silt Horror charms, Balikite weapons and war machines, smoked sand shark steaks, etc). They haven't "paid" for the services (providers, contacts, healing, money lending, caravan provisions, mounts and weapons) that House Wavir offers but would have access to independent providers and services (differing quality/price/risk?).
#6 BRJN Dec 23, 2010 19:12:17	Well, two thoughts. 1) Triangle trade. Maybe going back-and-forth isn't such a good idea, but stopping off somewhere else along the way for other goods will make it worthwhile. This need not be the same place in both directions - a quadrangle. 2) Look into how the IRL railroads collect boxcars from customers, put them together into a train, and send it to another sorting yard. Each city on Athas acts like the division-point yard where the train is taken apart into its component cars, they are shuffled based on destination, and new trains are sent out. Think of a caravan as the train and each animal as a boxcar. At a caravan stop (not just an oasis), the animals will be shuffled and sent on to their next destination; the caravan does not stay together and whole all the way across Athas. Narvik the Caravan Master might travel from Balic to Gulg, but he will have different animals/cargoes when he arrives at Gulg than he had when he left Balic. Except perhaps for his personal mount ( = the caboose?).