I just got an update for the character builder, and still no Dark Sun update... this is a little disappointing. Has anyone heard anything on when it will be updated with Dark Sun?
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Don't worry, they're getting a lot of complaints.
EDIT: Holy smokes... as I hit "Submit Post", I was hit with a sudden wave of E-Tools-itis. A pox I wish on no one.
My experience with 4e and not using the CB, especially given the HUGE wealth of additional material that's been released through various books and DDI (and my players want to use a lot of that material) is that almost every character manually rolled up will have multiple player-generated errors, especially if they're higher level characters. We'll also spend more than one game session just manually rolling up characters, and I'll spend way too much time auditing character sheets. For me, it's not worth the time sink to not use the CB.
And, if we use the CB, and there are errors with the characters, at least they're "official" errors.
I think that what I'm likely to do is just hold off until next summer for Dark Sun, and just keep running my current 4e game. I live in CT, and it's kind of hard to set that "it's oppressively hot" mood for my players when everyone has "winter is on its way" in their heads. It would have been so much better if DS released at the beginning of the summer rather than the end.
Until such time as the CB is updated, I might just run some DS one-shots, using pre-gens, to give the players a taste of the setting. A full-on campaign is probably not in the cards for now.
Similarly, if you limit options to one book (e.g. "PHB 1 only") stuff gets a lot simpler. It's sifting through books that takes so darned long.
I was able to write up my essentials guy in about 30 minutes (at level 6). Inherent bonuses seriously simplify stuff too.
Maybe I'm just rattling here though, my head being a bit addled the past few days...
Unless you're choosing very specific stuff from the Dark Sun books, there doesn't seem to be *too* much hassle using the Character Builder for Dark Sun characters.
Unless you want to play a Thri-kreen. Or a Mul.
Carl
I'll just wait until CB (or its replacement) is updated to properly handle Essentials and/or Dark Sun before doing anything with those resources. We have plenty of other material to play with in the meantime.
The lack of a Dark Sun update for the builder is unacceptable but don't let that stop you from playing. They may never update the builder for Dark Sun.
They are being too mysterious about these new web tools.
-Warunsun.
Unless you're choosing very specific stuff from the Dark Sun books, there doesn't seem to be *too* much hassle using the Character Builder for Dark Sun characters.
Unless you want to play a Thri-kreen. Or a Mul.
Carl
I made my Human Swordmage for dark sun entirely in the CB then just printed a custom card for his theme Encounter power.
Then I helped my friends make their characters.
Thri-Kreen Monk & Mul Barbarian: Picked races with the same stat bonuses and made the characters in the CB. Then got a form-fillable PDF character sheet and manually filled it out, changing the race, racial skill bonus and printing custom power cards for their theme and race. Was not difficult at all.
The third friend rolled a Half-Elf Sorcerer King Pact Warlock. Picked a random lock theme and built it in the CB then filled out the PDF sheet with the correct Sorcerer King Pact stuff.
Really wasn't that challenging or much more time consuming than building a character straight out of the CB. With google you can find power cards for Dark Sun and print the ones you need.
Its a shame the CB isn't updated yet but it ain't the end of the world, this is one of those times I'm ashamed of our cultures reliance on technology.
And this next update means requires a MAJOR overhaul of the existing software to allow for Themes (an entirely new data type/mechanic) and classes that introduce new play mechanics from the Essentials books. It makes perfect sense that this update should take a lot longer.
Just my opinion, but people need to be a little more forgiving on the Dark Sun/Essentials character builder updates. These tools are based around specific categories of mechanics and certain assumptions about similarities between classes, types of data, etc.
And this next update means requires a MAJOR overhaul of the existing software to allow for Themes (an entirely new data type/mechanic) and classes that introduce new play mechanics from the Essentials books. It makes perfect sense that this update should take a lot longer.
My solution is just to start at low level, so making a manual character sheet is not a big issue.
You can still use the CB as a good search tool for stuff you need.
We used to photocopy/scan the powers of a PC to a single sheet before CB existed, and we'll do that even now. That way, you have the whole rules text to reference during play. Basically we use a manual sheet for the normal two sheets you'd get from the CB and replace power cards with a sheet that has all the power statblocks.
Seriously, the missing CB data is annoying, but people have played pen and paper rpg's for years without computer programs and it was not a big problem. Don't kill a good campaign idea on this alone.
Just my opinion, but people need to be a little more forgiving on the Dark Sun/Essentials character builder updates. These tools are based around specific categories of mechanics and certain assumptions about similarities between classes, types of data, etc.
And this next update means requires a MAJOR overhaul of the existing software to allow for Themes (an entirely new data type/mechanic) and classes that introduce new play mechanics from the Essentials books. It makes perfect sense that this update should take a lot longer.
I don't believe forgiving is warrented. They released Dark Sun and Essentials at the same time. Upgrading the CB and the MB for these changes took more time than they initially thought it would take (which is trend for these services). So, they postponed some of the changes - those happened to be Dark Sun changes. As a fan of Dark Sun and not Essentials I am purposely being ignored and I don't like it (I also use a Mac, so I have to go through great pains to use these tools already).
A good quote from the Chatty DM:
"I’m sorry to say… but I think that history will judge 4e as the game that got hampered by a paper company failing to “get” Web 2.0 before its customer base. "
This was in response to an excellent comment by Alphastream about Essentials and Dark Sun and The DDI:Tools (Alphastream's more knowledgeable than I). Blog is here and it's about the Essentials DM Kit - so it's not entirely related to the discussion.
That would make me a little happier, but honestly Themes are what I really wanted to see in the CB anyway. And themes can't easily be replicated without a lot of extra work. So that's quite frustrating for many of us I think.
I believe you have the right to be annoyed when you aren't getting what you pay for. I'm annoyed about that, believe me.
However, my Dark Sun campaign isn't on hold because of this. If yours is, you're missing out; not to mention incredibly lazy.
You can also save your pity party about not having enough time to roll characters up because of how busy your no-doubt important everyday life is. You had enough time to dig through this forum and post several responses. I don't think the problem is that you're too busy, I think it's that you don't know how to make efficient use of time.
Its a shame the CB isn't updated yet but it ain't the end of the world, this is one of those times I'm ashamed of our cultures reliance on technology.
It isn't the end of the world, but its the end of a lot of DDI subs. Mine included. Why pay for something if it isn't going to be of any use to you?
It isn't the end of the world, but its the end of a lot of DDI subs. Mine included. Why pay for something if it isn't going to be of any use to you?
I definitely understand being frustrated about the lack of update, but is DDI completely useless without the Dark Sun info? Until 4e, I did all of my characters on paper... so I admit I feel pretty spoiled by CB. I figure if I want to be part of Dark Sun, I can make my character the old fashioned way for now! In the mean time, DDI has so much other stuff to offer, why give it up over an update hiccup?
In the mean time, DDI has so much other stuff to offer, why give it up over an update hiccup?
Actually for the vast majority of users the Character Builder is all that DDI does offer. It is all the majority cares about anyway. The Virtual Game Table had huge interest but it was dumped. There seem to be two camps represented: 1. Those DMs that don't allow anything from the magazines and 2. Those DMs that allow pretty much everything in the builder. I am sure there are some DMs that don't allow specific things but I bet they usually simple say, "You can't have one of those", then proceed to let the builder do the work for the player. So either way, without updates to the builder, the rest of the DDI subscription is useless.
-Warunsun
It isn't the end of the world, but its the end of a lot of DDI subs. Mine included. Why pay for something if it isn't going to be of any use to you?
I definitely understand being frustrated about the lack of update, but is DDI completely useless without the Dark Sun info? Until 4e, I did all of my characters on paper... so I admit I feel pretty spoiled by CB. I figure if I want to be part of Dark Sun, I can make my character the old fashioned way for now! In the mean time, DDI has so much other stuff to offer, why give it up over an update hiccup?
Yes, I can make my character "the old fashioned way", but if I am going to do so, I don't see any point in paying WOTC for a character builder that I can't use. I am not going to pay them for a tool that helps me make characters when I have to make said characters by hand.
And, for me at least, a fully updated character builder was the last thing that DDI had going for it. Now that they can't seem to even give me that, DDI is indeed of zero use to me.
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I love paying for a service and then receiving a two-sentence, copy-pasted answer devoid of any actual information. Needless to say, I filled out the questionnaire.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
This update to the Character Builder will contain Dark Sun content.
Unfortunately, no news on the Monster Builder.
Don't want to start another discussion thread, just wanted to post the news. If you feel strongly about posting something, you should probably do so on the official discussion thread.
thnx big_goon!