Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 HarbringerOfNok May 24, 2011 11:35:21	I am not sure if this has been covered... I am a long time DS follower (since it was first released in the 90s). I want to keep with the original concepts released in DS, i.e. no divine magics. However, the cleric is a step above any other healer out there. Has anyone used the cleric in thier own campaigns or is there an alternative explanation / power soruce provided in the new DS material? Shaman, Rainbringer works, but I was looking for a non summoning (primal) healer type. Any suggestions?
#2 Alex_ May 24, 2011 12:05:48	As leaders, pretty much any Shaman build can heal.  Druids have a couple of buffing/restorative abilities, but are definately no substitute.  There are no other leader/healing classes in the primal power source.   There are other non-primal healers, however: Warlords (martial), Bards (arcane), Artificers (arcane), and Ardents (psionic).   from what I can tell, the decision to expel clerics was twofold.  First of all, it fits with a Dark Sun theme  established back in 2E - where significant mechanical changes are made on the basis of radically different fluff; the lack of any gods in this case.  Secondly, it removes the classes with the most healing options (i.e. the Divine classes) from the game, making battles a bit more challenging.
#3 HarbringerOfNok May 24, 2011 12:28:54	Yeah, I do agree that without the highest tier of healers availabe - combat does become more interesting/difficult. Shaman will be my go to. I just wish there was a non summoner option (flavor reasons). What about hexblades. I love the idea of the class. I just don't want to limit them to sorcerer king denziens. Gloom can easily be linked to the black or the grey. What of fey and star pacts?
#4 mach4 May 24, 2011 13:46:08	It isn't too difficult to adjust some of the powers and abilities to function mechanically the same and yet have an entirely different feel and play. Our group re-fluffed the shaman spirit companions as elemental conduits, a small vortex of a chosen element that functions in all respects as the companion did without the companion making it feel like a 'pet class'. The rift can spew forth tangible amounts of it's element only for the purpose of attacks (water vortexes attack with water that is putrid and undrinkable, to avoid any clever ideas). After our DM worked out the kinks, the shaman player ended up rolling up a thri-kreen monk so it was work currently in vain but there for later use. You could also opt to redo the powers and abilities themselves to where the shaman itself is the elemental font in question (my initial proposal where there was much rejoicing and shouts of "Flame on!") but that may weaken the class without a secondary mobile power using method and was not adopted. As for the hexblades, there's no reason why you cannot re-fluff any of the pacts to suit your ideas by simply renaming abilities and their visual effects. I am curious what anyone else could do with redoing fey pacts since we opted not to include fey aspects in our game (including the Feywild and eladrin) and with no one showing any interest in a warlock or hexblade hadn't given it any thought. Edit: To compensate for the lack of healing, most of our players are working on builds that are a little more durable or self-sufficient. I'm the group's only healer as a warden and things are working out well enough. I'm sure there are some behind the screen tweaks with particular encounters to better suit the strengths and weaknesses of our party-make-up (1 leader, 4 strikers). Let's just say that surprise rounds are rough.
#5 HarbringerOfNok May 24, 2011 14:26:22	I like the idea of having the initial spirit companions be vortex's. Perhaps I could do this or tie it to the spirit of the land in some way... I really would love for them to publish some fluff re-adopting the existing classes to the DS campaign setting. Thoughts on the hexblade could include replacing the origin on the pact to a power source (instead of an entity). For Sorcerer Kings it is the elemental planes to which they are conduits for. The black (or grey) could be another power source... The crimson sun could possibly replace "The Fey Pact of the White Well". I am not so sure of the other two. However, explaining how they remain Arcane in nature may be difficult.
#6 obryn May 24, 2011 14:27:58	We've had a Warlord from day one.  We've also had a Sentinel Druid and currently have a Shaman. All of the above work just fine.  The last two, especially, cover the ground of the Elemental Priest very well - especially if they take the theme, though it's not necessary. For Sentinel Druid, your "wolf" or "bear" can just as easily be a durable elemental servitor.  The animist shaman works fine with an elemental spirit, so there's no refluffling at all required, there. -O
#7 HarbringerOfNok May 24, 2011 14:39:55	What pact was the Warlock? How did you reflavor the options?
#8 Gallard May 24, 2011 22:36:11	a cleric works just fine, if you put the work in to fluff the char up. so let's turn the holy cleric into an Earth,Air,Fire,Water cleric of 2e athas. obv, elemental priest theme is ideal. but i can understand not wanting to deal with a conjure. firstly, pick a specific element to fluff around. change all divine keywords to elemental. try to pick powers with your chosen element, or at least close. radiant works for fire (or sun if you want the paraelemental route), thunder can be earthy-ground-rumbling instead of sky booms, etc. now alter the crunch abit. holy symbols arent holy, but something similar can work; earth cleric's symbol might be a pouch of soil hung around the neck, fire cleric might have a piece of burnt wood. id remove religion as an auto-skill. healer's lore, healing word, and rit casting dont need any changing. channel divinity is problematic though - either sac some power in the name of fun and get rid of the feature, or work with your dm for some other alternative (turn undead might be ok for a sun cleric, not so much for a water cleric). now make a suitable background/history of why you're tied to this element, and bam-done.
#9 Alphastream May 25, 2011 11:04:01	The Earth Domain Warpriest is to me a great example of what a AD&D style Dark Sun elemental priest would be like. Change anything that says "divine" to primal and you are done. Reflavor the powers a bit to make a Water, Air, or Fire priest. The spells in Earth, Air, Fire, and Water can be used for inspiration.
#10 Alex_ May 25, 2011 12:07:00	I like the idea of having the initial spirit companions be vortex's. Perhaps I could do this or tie it to the spirit of the land in some way... I really would love for them to publish some fluff re-adopting the existing classes to the DS campaign setting. Thoughts on the hexblade could include replacing the origin on the pact to a power source (instead of an entity). For Sorcerer Kings it is the elemental planes to which they are conduits for. The black (or grey) could be another power source... The crimson sun could possibly replace "The Fey Pact of the White Well". I am not so sure of the other two. However, explaining how they remain Arcane in nature may be difficult.   The Dark Sun entry on Shamans (and elemental Shamans in particular) points out that their spirits look less like glowing blue animals and more like elemental manifestations of the land.  Swirling globules of water, gouts of fire, and mini earth-elementals.  Why not just describe your bear spirit as a hulking beast made of dirt and brambles, or your panther spirit as a  lithe cat or lizard-like creature of pure flame.
#11 Alphastream May 27, 2011 12:24:51	Agreed, Alex_. I played a 4E version of the Pathfinder Legacy of Fire adventure path where my PC was a gnoll shaman. He was a "bear" shaman but actually summoned one of the four elements based on the situation. My backstory was that he had been chosen/cursed by the elements and they toyed with him and tortured him as they led him on adventure. He would summon water when he felt healing was needed, earth for protection, fire for heavy offense, air for toolkit situations. It was just reskinning, but a lot of fun.
#12 koesherbacon May 29, 2011 3:25:31	My group's backstory is a little convoluted, so bear with me while I explain it.  Then I'll explain how we managed to make it work on Athas. The group started out as level 1's in the vanilla DND world, specifically in Nentier Vale.  At level 1, they chose to be: Human Wizard, Shadar-Kai (probably spelled wrong) Fighter, Halfling Rogue, Elf Bard, Eladrin Avenger & a Goliath Hybrid Shaman+Paladin.  After a few levels, I was given the DSCS.  I thought it looked really awesome, so I had them go on a short quest in which they were transported by some mysterious means into the Dark Sun world/continent of Athas. Now everything translated just fine, except the Paladin and the Avenger since they're divine.  I decided that I did not want to make these players remake their characters who they were already quite attached to.  We decided to work it this way... The DSCS says that the gods are dead.  What does that really mean?  That means that they've been caused to some how no longer watch or interact with the material world.  Regardless of whether we want to tackle their current whereabouts in this thread (does anything in DND ever actually cease to exist?  Pfff, NO!); the dead gods probably have some residual energy somewhere, even if not in the material plane in some other plane that can be accessed on the material plane. This being the case, divine characters are allowable in my campaign, the gods do not speak to the divine characters, or appear in dreams, or whatever.  But they do have access to their powers.  Praying to their gods is something they opt to do or not do as characters, and has already lead the group to decide to investigate what caused the gods deaths and where their current whereabouts are, if they still exist at all.  That, of course, will be saved for a much later day... they're only just becoming level 8. But anyway, that's how my group's decided to allow divine characters.  Instead of a Cleric, Avenger, Paladin, Invoker, or Rune Priest getting his or her power directly from the god they worship they tap into that residual energy that currently exists even after their death.  I suppose it would be kind of the same as the residual microwave energy left over from the Big Bang that we can detect in our own world. What do you think?
#13 captpike May 29, 2011 5:00:50	by the fluff runepriests are the only divine class that makes sence to exist in DS. they are not granted power from a set of gods, or one god they learned how to use the runes that the gods made before the dawn war. no that they would be liked, but they can exist, although they would need a good reason how they learned their power