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Companion elementals?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
lastard
Jan 01, 2010 17:37:02 Hi!
Does anyone know whether a druid or cleric could have a 'companion elemental'? Is there any material on this?
Lastard

www.twinmooncircus.net/darksun
#2
ian.thomson
Jan 01, 2010 18:37:27 DMG2 has rules for companion characters that uses monsters as a base. Maybe the character could gain an elemental companion character instead of a magic item or two of the same level. For anything comparable to arcane familiars, I don't know of anything.
#3
mouthymerc
Jan 02, 2010 7:27:35 With the Divine source not being used, clerics will be out unless you decide to use them in your game. Shamans already get a companion and there is nothing to stop you from refluffing it as an elemental. If you wish your druid to also have this ability he can multi-class with the Spirit Talker feat.
#4
lastard
Jan 02, 2010 8:08:52 I thought that as clerics in Dark Sun are always elemental clerics (unless you count the raaigs), and the druids have a strong connection to the elements, it would make sense. Also, an elemental could decide to stay with a cleric after s/he saved her from a rival element or defilement. What do you think?
#5
ian.thomson
Jan 02, 2010 8:50:46
I thought that as clerics in Dark Sun are always elemental clerics (unless you count the raaigs), and the druids have a strong connection to the elements, it would make sense. Also, an elemental could decide to stay with a cleric after s/he saved her from a rival element or defilement. What do you think?

In 2e, this is true. In 4e DS, the divine power source is being dropped (no gods), so "clerics" are mechanically shamans.
#6
lastard
Jan 02, 2010 10:27:00 Okay, I don't know enough about 4e. Shamans in our campain just communicate with spirits/dead. I'm using this book for the shaman class:
www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&...
#7
603
Jan 02, 2010 11:40:20 Yeah, that's late 2e stuff. 4e is vastly different.

Basically, Primal classes draw their power from the Elemental Chaos and possibly the Primordials if they exist in a given campaign. Divine classes (notably Clerics) draw power from their patron god. That's actually why Divine classes can't exist in a 4e Dark Sun game- because they have no power source at all. So Athas will probably have Barbarians instead of Avengers, Druids and Shamans instead of Clerics, and Wardens instead of Paladins. Primal power is introduced in PHB2, so I've got a hunch that Dark Sun may require that book and the DMG2 as well.

That Shaman supplement you linked looks like it dates back to the late 90s Ravenloft revival, by the way.
#8
lastard
Jan 02, 2010 12:20:59 But DS clerics are drawing upon the elements, not Gods. They are different. 4e is not even fully published, so I don't think it makes sense discussing it. Let's say, I'm talking about 2e and 3e and 3.5e.
#9
agathokles
Jan 02, 2010 13:25:50 AFAIK, (AD&D) Clerics and Druids generally don't have familiars. I think the simplest option would be to have an Elemental as a henchman or retainer, considering it as an NPC of level equal to the HD. In any case, only a very high-level Cleric or Druid could gain it -- Elemental Clerics are servants of the elementals, not vice versa.

Earth, Air, Fire and Water is the primary source on priestly classes, and makes this last idea very clear -- Elementals can be very pressing in asking the Cleric's help, but they are rarely strong enough to provide more than the standard benefits (at least on the Prime Material).

G.
#10
lastard
Jan 02, 2010 13:55:41 Yes, clerics/druids/rangers do worship elementals, but I thought that maybe, if a cleric has a particularly strong affinity, has gained much territory for his element or has saved an elemental or elemental creature from a rival element or defilement, it might grant the 'hero' its presence. Of course, there would be a different power dynamic between the two. But maybe, the companion bond also benefits the elemental (e.g. it can act differently on the prime through this bond, it rises more quickly in level), so that it is a more mutually beneficial relationship.
#11
mouthymerc
Jan 02, 2010 19:17:55 Is the game using 4E or earlier rules?
#12
603
Jan 02, 2010 19:55:36
But DS clerics are drawing upon the elements, not Gods. They are different. 4e is not even fully published, so I don't think it makes sense discussing it. Let's say, I'm talking about 2e and 3e and 3.5e.

What's that supposed to mean? 4e is fully published. The PHB, DMG, and MM are all out, as well as the PHB2, DMG2, and MM2. Just ruling it out because all possible books haven't been released (and hopefully won't for a long time) is like ruling out 3.5 before 4e was released, simply because it hadn't been fully published.
#13
mouthymerc
Jan 03, 2010 2:48:08
But DS clerics are drawing upon the elements, not Gods. They are different. 4e is not even fully published, so I don't think it makes sense discussing it. Let's say, I'm talking about 2e and 3e and 3.5e.

Ah, I missed this. Can't help you there as my familiarity with previous editions has waned since 4E came out.

I don't know what their going to do exactly, but they are going to be introducing some new mechanics for classes to enable a more Dark Sun feel. One of the things they could do for Primal classes is give the ability to tie their powers to a particular element, thus you get to add a keyword or exchange one to emphasize a particular element.
#14
agathokles
Jan 03, 2010 7:08:01
What's that supposed to mean? 4e is fully published. The PHB, DMG, and MM are all out, as well as the PHB2, DMG2, and MM2.

Dark Sun 4e is not yet published. So, e.g., we don't know yet which class will represent Elemental Clerics. The answer to the OP's question would be different depending on whether Wardens, Shamans, or other classes were used.

G.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lastard Jan 01, 2010 17:37:02	Hi! Does anyone know whether a druid or cleric could have a 'companion elemental'? Is there any material on this? Lastard www.twinmooncircus.net/darksun
#2 ian.thomson Jan 01, 2010 18:37:27	DMG2 has rules for companion characters that uses monsters as a base. Maybe the character could gain an elemental companion character instead of a magic item or two of the same level. For anything comparable to arcane familiars, I don't know of anything.
#3 mouthymerc Jan 02, 2010 7:27:35	With the Divine source not being used, clerics will be out unless you decide to use them in your game. Shamans already get a companion and there is nothing to stop you from refluffing it as an elemental. If you wish your druid to also have this ability he can multi-class with the Spirit Talker feat.
#4 lastard Jan 02, 2010 8:08:52	I thought that as clerics in Dark Sun are always elemental clerics (unless you count the raaigs), and the druids have a strong connection to the elements, it would make sense. Also, an elemental could decide to stay with a cleric after s/he saved her from a rival element or defilement. What do you think?
#5 ian.thomson Jan 02, 2010 8:50:46	I thought that as clerics in Dark Sun are always elemental clerics (unless you count the raaigs), and the druids have a strong connection to the elements, it would make sense. Also, an elemental could decide to stay with a cleric after s/he saved her from a rival element or defilement. What do you think? In 2e, this is true. In 4e DS, the divine power source is being dropped (no gods), so "clerics" are mechanically shamans.
#6 lastard Jan 02, 2010 10:27:00	Okay, I don't know enough about 4e. Shamans in our campain just communicate with spirits/dead. I'm using this book for the shaman class: www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&...
#7 603 Jan 02, 2010 11:40:20	Yeah, that's late 2e stuff. 4e is vastly different. Basically, Primal classes draw their power from the Elemental Chaos and possibly the Primordials if they exist in a given campaign. Divine classes (notably Clerics) draw power from their patron god. That's actually why Divine classes can't exist in a 4e Dark Sun game- because they have no power source at all. So Athas will probably have Barbarians instead of Avengers, Druids and Shamans instead of Clerics, and Wardens instead of Paladins. Primal power is introduced in PHB2, so I've got a hunch that Dark Sun may require that book and the DMG2 as well. That Shaman supplement you linked looks like it dates back to the late 90s Ravenloft revival, by the way.
#8 lastard Jan 02, 2010 12:20:59	But DS clerics are drawing upon the elements, not Gods. They are different. 4e is not even fully published, so I don't think it makes sense discussing it. Let's say, I'm talking about 2e and 3e and 3.5e.
#9 agathokles Jan 02, 2010 13:25:50	AFAIK, (AD&D) Clerics and Druids generally don't have familiars. I think the simplest option would be to have an Elemental as a henchman or retainer, considering it as an NPC of level equal to the HD. In any case, only a very high-level Cleric or Druid could gain it -- Elemental Clerics are servants of the elementals, not vice versa. Earth, Air, Fire and Water is the primary source on priestly classes, and makes this last idea very clear -- Elementals can be very pressing in asking the Cleric's help, but they are rarely strong enough to provide more than the standard benefits (at least on the Prime Material). G.
#10 lastard Jan 02, 2010 13:55:41	Yes, clerics/druids/rangers do worship elementals, but I thought that maybe, if a cleric has a particularly strong affinity, has gained much territory for his element or has saved an elemental or elemental creature from a rival element or defilement, it might grant the 'hero' its presence. Of course, there would be a different power dynamic between the two. But maybe, the companion bond also benefits the elemental (e.g. it can act differently on the prime through this bond, it rises more quickly in level), so that it is a more mutually beneficial relationship.
#11 mouthymerc Jan 02, 2010 19:17:55	Is the game using 4E or earlier rules?
#12 603 Jan 02, 2010 19:55:36	But DS clerics are drawing upon the elements, not Gods. They are different. 4e is not even fully published, so I don't think it makes sense discussing it. Let's say, I'm talking about 2e and 3e and 3.5e. What's that supposed to mean? 4e is fully published. The PHB, DMG, and MM are all out, as well as the PHB2, DMG2, and MM2. Just ruling it out because all possible books haven't been released (and hopefully won't for a long time) is like ruling out 3.5 before 4e was released, simply because it hadn't been fully published.
#13 mouthymerc Jan 03, 2010 2:48:08	But DS clerics are drawing upon the elements, not Gods. They are different. 4e is not even fully published, so I don't think it makes sense discussing it. Let's say, I'm talking about 2e and 3e and 3.5e. Ah, I missed this. Can't help you there as my familiarity with previous editions has waned since 4E came out. I don't know what their going to do exactly, but they are going to be introducing some new mechanics for classes to enable a more Dark Sun feel. One of the things they could do for Primal classes is give the ability to tie their powers to a particular element, thus you get to add a keyword or exchange one to emphasize a particular element.
#14 agathokles Jan 03, 2010 7:08:01	What's that supposed to mean? 4e is fully published. The PHB, DMG, and MM are all out, as well as the PHB2, DMG2, and MM2. Dark Sun 4e is not yet published. So, e.g., we don't know yet which class will represent Elemental Clerics. The answer to the OP's question would be different depending on whether Wardens, Shamans, or other classes were used. G.