Dark Sun 4.0 ... already obsolete?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

commissar

Jul 09, 2010 0:43:26
Well, with the new Ampersand article on the Essentials cleric as the standard which they will be using moving forward, I'm wondering if Dark Sun 4.0 is already basically obsolete. It requires the use of PHB 1-3, which are evidently now considered moribund (that is, not that they won't still be compatible with E4.e, but that they won't be reflective of the state of the game).

Will the things that are not currently identified as being represented in E4.e (Primal source, goliaths, Psionic source, etc.) eventually be re-issued as Essential-ized? Should I just wait for that?

I feel like I'm in a bit of a weird position: I was starting to collect 4.0 books in anticipation of Dark Sun. Now it looks like 4.0's life cycle is already over (i.e. it is no longer germane to the direction which they are taking the game, even though it is still compatible). I'm not sure where to go from here.
#2

visanidethdm

Jul 09, 2010 1:00:33
I think you're victim of faulty perception of what Essentials are. You don't upgrade 4e to Essentials; you upgrade Essentials to 4e.
#3

Nyarlathotep

Jul 09, 2010 1:07:18
Okay lets say that 4.0 IS moribund.  I'm not saying it is, I'm taking a wait and see attitude on that, but for the sake of argument lets take it as a given.

Okay, so its moribund, so what?  Is there enough stuff out (once the actual Dark Sun products are released, natch) to run a perfectly good game?  I would say yes.  Why do you care if it's 'reflective of the state of the game'?  Does it affect what happens at your table?  Does being behind the curve make it less fun?  

I'd say no, though YMMV.   

Further, from what they said, Essentials is supposed to be just the 10 products they have announced. Essentially (pardon the pun) another 'point of entry' into the game that will always be in print.  So nothing that isn't already announced as being in the line will be.   Granted, that could change, but its their policy as of now.

So in short, I don't think Dark Sun is 'already obsolete' and if it were it wouldn't make a difference if it were (IMHO, of course). 
#4

nimblegrund

Jul 09, 2010 1:48:35
I am a little concerned myself.  While they have said that Essentials is not an edition update like 3.5 was, I do wonder if this is just a PR smokescreen to hide the fact that it really IS an edition update, because they don't want another reaction like they got out of 3.5.

One thing that did strike me is that this would seem to only affect the entry-level classes and races.  They are talking about getting rid of Daily powers, which would be a major change to be sure, but that doesn't really change anything about how any of the other classes are played, in theory.  And even then, I can't imagine it would be that big a deal to change your Mul Fighter to an Essentials Mul Fighter when the new books come out. 

One thing this may also mean is that since Drow are one of the Essentials races, does this mean that now Drow are a Dark Sun race?
#5

visanidethdm

Jul 09, 2010 2:54:02
I am a little concerned myself.  While they have said that Essentials is not an edition update like 3.5 was, I do wonder if this is just a PR smokescreen to hide the fact that it really IS an edition update, because they don't want another reaction like they got out of 3.5.

One thing that did strike me is that this would seem to only affect the entry-level classes and races.  They are talking about getting rid of Daily powers, which would be a major change to be sure, but that doesn't really change anything about how any of the other classes are played, in theory.  And even then, I can't imagine it would be that big a deal to change your Mul Fighter to an Essentials Mul Fighter when the new books come out. 

One thing this may also mean is that since Drow are one of the Essentials races, does this mean that now Drow are a Dark Sun race?



The point is that the Essentials won't introduce a new fighter class, but a new fighter build.

Everything in the Essentials is optional.

#6

ascottbay

Jul 09, 2010 3:41:48
They mentioned a lot of their design theory originated while working on PHB3, which introduced psionics. I dare say, Dark Sun might be ahead of the curve. ;)

Also, I quickly got over the shock my Character Builder gave me when it made me choose between more power points, or daily powers. We've got the precedent not only for dropping daily power selection, but for making it something that happens based on your build.

It's a really robust, modular game system. The only thing that's under constant threat of destabilization is the fanbase. Hasty edit: no offense; I'm clearly one of you.
#7

nimblegrund

Jul 09, 2010 3:54:02

Everything in the Essentials is optional.




You would think they would call it Optionals, then.Tongue out

I think I get it now.  It's not so much that they are eliminating Fighter's daily powers, it's more that they are introducing more powers to replace the dailies, so that you can have a fighter without dailies... that about right? 
#8

tjs

Jul 09, 2010 6:38:49
I quickly got over the shock my Character Builder gave me when it made me choose between more power points, or daily powers. We've got the precedent not only for dropping daily power selection, but for making it something that happens based on your build.


Huh?  When does this happen?
#9

FlashbackJon

Jul 09, 2010 9:11:05
I think I get it now.  It's not so much that they are eliminating Fighter's daily powers, it's more that they are introducing more powers to replace the dailies, so that you can have a fighter without dailies... that about right? 


Yes.  A Slayer and a Two-Handed Weapon Talent Fighter may co-exist peacefully.

#10

ascottbay

Jul 09, 2010 15:45:06
I quickly got over the shock my Character Builder gave me when it made me choose between more power points, or daily powers. We've got the precedent not only for dropping daily power selection, but for making it something that happens based on your build.

Huh?  When does this happen?

Making a psionic / non-psionic hybrid.
#11

Garthanos

Jul 09, 2010 16:02:13

It's a really robust, modular game system. The only thing that's under constant threat of destabilization is the fanbase. Hasty edit: no offense; I'm clearly one of you.



Ballistic Giggles caused by this there was.