Dark Sun Bards - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dark Sun Bards

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Pennarin
Jun 14, 2010 14:20:03 This post is for n00bs:

If you ever get down to reading the Prism Pentad series of novels, or any of the 2nd Edition game supplements, you'll soon realize Athasian bards did not have spellcasting abilities, instead being like rogues or assassins and being masters of poisons. This was a thematic choice made complicated when 3rd and 4th Edition requitred all settings have the same classes.

So...how to reconcile this with 4th Edition giving you something called the Bard class?

Simple, first read Robert J. Schwalb's "Art of the Kill" article in Dragon 373. It is full of assassin-related feats and options. It is to be noted it was released pre-Assassin class (a DDI exclusive class), but works well with it as well.

It contains multiclass feats that allow you to multiclass into a non-existent class (such ficticious classes have names like Bravo, or Poisoner). Basically those feats mimic the existence of some ficticious class and give you some of their powers.

It also introduces the garrote and blowgun as weapons.

So if you ever want to have an old-school PC whose occupation is the typical Athasian bard, who dances or sings or plays music but has no supernatural powers, instead being (secretly) hiered to spy, poison, and kill, then make a Rogue with the Poisoner mutliclass feat.

In my game, a PC Bard won't necessarily fit the role the bards take in the novels and supplements.
#2
Tectuktitlay
Jun 14, 2010 15:55:22 I rarely actually call a PC by its class name. A fighter is rarely called a "fighter", it's a "soldier", or "warrior", or "gladiator", etc. A cleric is usually called a "Priest of [Diety/Element]", or "Son/Daughter of [Deity/Element]", "Bishop of [Deity]", etc. The class names are placeholders to codify the mechanical realities of the class, NOT the role-playing, worldly realities of the character in question. Quite a lot of players, n00b and very experienced alike, have a really hard time with this concept. I see it as being very important to making a roleplaying experience immersive, and allow for a greater suspension of disbelief. Thus, I try to make certain that my players understand this concept immediately when starting out with a new campaign or player that isn't structured in the LFR/Encounters vein.

On Athas, bards are rogues, assassins, theives, poisoners. All the things Pennarin points out and more. Thus, as Pennarin asserts, Athasian bards are usually rogues who take poison-related feats and options.

They are also entertainers. Thus, they usually carry musical instruments, or have melodic voices, or both. This does not have a mechanical requirement, and falls under virtually entirely pure role-playing portions of the game. There is no need to "stat out" their musical ability. They can perform music very well. The end.

If they are a Cha-secondary rogue, they are highly advised to take Diplomacy and/or Bluff and/or Intimidate, and thematically utilize their music to aid in those endeavors in much the same way that, thematically, a psion with high Insight might very well be reading the mind or feeling the emotions of those around them rather than simply cold-reading or otherwise non-psionically determining the motivations of those around them.

Bards are not, however, folks who channel arcane power through musical instruments, their voice, et al. The class bard, rather, is simply a specialized arcanist. Like most arcanists on Athas, be they artificer, wizard, sorcerer, swordmage, and non-Dragon-King Pact warlocks, the populace at large would label a character who is of the bard class a "sorcerer". They're all sorcerers in the minds of the populace, save those few who understand the difference between defiling and preserving. In which case, those individuals would call such a character either a "defiler" or a "preserver", and still likely refer to them as "sorcerer" in common parlance.

#3
Pennarin
Jun 14, 2010 16:24:50
In that optic, Magnus, the New Race from the Prism Pentad who sings and calls upon the winds, could be a Bard with the new Elemental Priest theme. In 2nd Edition he would have been forced to be a Cleric of the sphere of air.

It should be noted that some characters from the novels and supplements may no longer have 4th Edition equivalents in the rules.
#4
Tectuktitlay
Jun 14, 2010 17:07:25

In that optic, Magnus, the New Race from the Prism Pentad who sings and calls upon the winds, could be a Bard with the new Elemental Priest theme. In 2nd Edition he would have been forced to be a Cleric of the sphere of air.

Absolutely. I wholeheartedly agree. Magnus could easily be a Bard with the Elemental Priest theme.

It should be noted that some characters from the novels and supplements may no longer have 4th Edition equivalents in the rules.

It should also be noted that some characters in virtually every series of D&D novel, or other licensed novels with matching RPGs for that matter, never have and never will have an equivalent that can be duplicated in the rules. It is all-too-common for characters in novel to be so outside the codified rules of the system they are tied to such that they cannot be duplicated to any reasonable degree.

Thus, much as new players would LIKE to play as their favorite character, they truly must learn to settle for "close enough".

;)

#5
Pennarin
Jun 14, 2010 17:28:48
*cough* Dritzz *cough*

;)
#6
Tectuktitlay
Jun 14, 2010 17:31:20

*cough* Dritzz *cough*

;)

*cough* Sorak *cough*

;)

But yes, that's the general idea.
#7
beej_silver
Jun 14, 2010 18:04:54 I agree in so much as athasian bards don't have to be PHB2 bards. However, I want to point out that bardic magic is the most subtle of the arcane classes. It's nothing flashy (unless the character defiles) in many cases, and it could just be seen as the inherent power of music to affect people.

What I'm getting at here is that while athasian bards need not be PC bards, PC bards can still be athasian bards. It coule be that they don't see their music as magic at all, but more likely such characters may look at sorcery as just another poison - effective, subtle, and deadly.

Of course, PC bards who wantonly defile would still be viewed as dangerous sorcerers. And that could actually make for an interesting story, assuming the character survives the fury of the populace+templars.
#8
DoctorBadWolf
Jun 15, 2010 3:08:04 I'm just going to say that unless the player specifically wants to make them arcane, bards aren't arcane in DS.
Instead, their power source is Song. I'll also be monitoring power/feat choices for Bards, and if the player is trying to make a DS style bard with the bard class, I'll be pointing them away from obviously arcane options, and instead encourage them to use spellblades and instruments, and use melee powers and powers which could reasonably be contrued as coming from one's voice. I'll leave to them how they want to get the assassin/spy parts in there. with the open mcing of bards, and their awesome skill popential, i'm not seeing many problems.

On the other hand, a Nightstalker Assassin with the Venom Hand feats wouldn't need much to be a DS bard.

Maybe the alchemist feat?

#9
visanidethdm
Jun 15, 2010 4:09:51 I'm gonna allow players pick two options for playing a Bard in my games:

- the iconic Athasian Bard (spy, assassin, dancer and entertainer) will be fluffed into either Rogues or Assassins (on the player preference, depending on the specific character set of talents).

- the actual Bard class is re-named Song-Weaver. I'm gonna introduce a plot element concerning the unveiling of an ancient, Blue Age construct in the middle of the Sea of Silt, a few years before the campaign's kick off. The group of adventurers who would out the place never returned, but it's rumored they unlocked an hidden room and from that day it was possible, at times, to hear what sounded like a singing voice in the desert wind, deep but still graceful. From that day, on rare occasions, women who were pregnant during desert travels have given birth to children with - insert physical feature I've not thought about yet - and the gift of singing and dancing. These children (would be Bards, if they choose so), can speak Draconic (actually all barding music and singing is in Draconic for this version of the class), and singing in that language brings about magical portents.

I intend to use this fluff premise for certain type of sorcerers too - basically following the idea that when an ancient dragon (the original thing, as I plan to play around the now-extinct race and their relationships with Rajaat and current dragon kings quite a bit) tomb was unlocked, some powerful draconic cosmic spell called something like the Song of Creation was unleashed, and it's "tainting" people making them into natural arcane spellcasters.

The Song isn't evil or menacing per se, but it's very powerful and comes from a time where Defiling wasn't an issue - technically speaking, arcane magic didn't even exist, and the song was a failed experiment dragons were trying way before Rajaat made his own discovery; while Rajaat invented arcane magic in a rational, Int-based, Wizard like way, this was the typical wild-talent-magic-flows-in-my-blood dragon thing. They saw the effects, and locked the cosmic spell away.

Now the Song is free again, and while using it, bards and sorcerors go through what is generally called the Trance, which doesn't strip them of their own free will but often leads them to savage defiling (I've prepared small pieces of fluff like tales of that young dancer who entertained travelers at a campfire, and one night the dance carried her away and when she came to her senses everyone around her was burnt to a crisp and all plantlife in a square mile was dead in order to create a "witch hunt" climate around natural arcane casters).
#10
big_goon
Jun 15, 2010 10:31:13 I'm sensing that Bard might make a decent theme.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Pennarin Jun 14, 2010 14:20:03	This post is for n00bs: If you ever get down to reading the Prism Pentad series of novels, or any of the 2nd Edition game supplements, you'll soon realize Athasian bards did not have spellcasting abilities, instead being like rogues or assassins and being masters of poisons. This was a thematic choice made complicated when 3rd and 4th Edition requitred all settings have the same classes. So...how to reconcile this with 4th Edition giving you something called the Bard class? Simple, first read Robert J. Schwalb's "Art of the Kill" article in Dragon 373. It is full of assassin-related feats and options. It is to be noted it was released pre-Assassin class (a DDI exclusive class), but works well with it as well. It contains multiclass feats that allow you to multiclass into a non-existent class (such ficticious classes have names like Bravo, or Poisoner). Basically those feats mimic the existence of some ficticious class and give you some of their powers. It also introduces the garrote and blowgun as weapons. So if you ever want to have an old-school PC whose occupation is the typical Athasian bard, who dances or sings or plays music but has no supernatural powers, instead being (secretly) hiered to spy, poison, and kill, then make a Rogue with the Poisoner mutliclass feat. In my game, a PC Bard won't necessarily fit the role the bards take in the novels and supplements.
#2 Tectuktitlay Jun 14, 2010 15:55:22	I rarely actually call a PC by its class name. A fighter is rarely called a "fighter", it's a "soldier", or "warrior", or "gladiator", etc. A cleric is usually called a "Priest of [Diety/Element]", or "Son/Daughter of [Deity/Element]", "Bishop of [Deity]", etc. The class names are placeholders to codify the mechanical realities of the class, NOT the role-playing, worldly realities of the character in question. Quite a lot of players, n00b and very experienced alike, have a really hard time with this concept. I see it as being very important to making a roleplaying experience immersive, and allow for a greater suspension of disbelief. Thus, I try to make certain that my players understand this concept immediately when starting out with a new campaign or player that isn't structured in the LFR/Encounters vein. On Athas, bards are rogues, assassins, theives, poisoners. All the things Pennarin points out and more. Thus, as Pennarin asserts, Athasian bards are usually rogues who take poison-related feats and options. They are also entertainers. Thus, they usually carry musical instruments, or have melodic voices, or both. This does not have a mechanical requirement, and falls under virtually entirely pure role-playing portions of the game. There is no need to "stat out" their musical ability. They can perform music very well. The end. If they are a Cha-secondary rogue, they are highly advised to take Diplomacy and/or Bluff and/or Intimidate, and thematically utilize their music to aid in those endeavors in much the same way that, thematically, a psion with high Insight might very well be reading the mind or feeling the emotions of those around them rather than simply cold-reading or otherwise non-psionically determining the motivations of those around them. Bards are not, however, folks who channel arcane power through musical instruments, their voice, et al. The class bard, rather, is simply a specialized arcanist. Like most arcanists on Athas, be they artificer, wizard, sorcerer, swordmage, and non-Dragon-King Pact warlocks, the populace at large would label a character who is of the bard class a "sorcerer". They're all sorcerers in the minds of the populace, save those few who understand the difference between defiling and preserving. In which case, those individuals would call such a character either a "defiler" or a "preserver", and still likely refer to them as "sorcerer" in common parlance.
#3 Pennarin Jun 14, 2010 16:24:50	In that optic, Magnus, the New Race from the Prism Pentad who sings and calls upon the winds, could be a Bard with the new Elemental Priest theme. In 2nd Edition he would have been forced to be a Cleric of the sphere of air. It should be noted that some characters from the novels and supplements may no longer have 4th Edition equivalents in the rules.
#4 Tectuktitlay Jun 14, 2010 17:07:25	In that optic, Magnus, the New Race from the Prism Pentad who sings and calls upon the winds, could be a Bard with the new Elemental Priest theme. In 2nd Edition he would have been forced to be a Cleric of the sphere of air. Absolutely. I wholeheartedly agree. Magnus could easily be a Bard with the Elemental Priest theme. It should be noted that some characters from the novels and supplements may no longer have 4th Edition equivalents in the rules. It should also be noted that some characters in virtually every series of D&D novel, or other licensed novels with matching RPGs for that matter, never have and never will have an equivalent that can be duplicated in the rules. It is all-too-common for characters in novel to be so outside the codified rules of the system they are tied to such that they cannot be duplicated to any reasonable degree. Thus, much as new players would LIKE to play as their favorite character, they truly must learn to settle for "close enough". ;)
#5 Pennarin Jun 14, 2010 17:28:48	cough Dritzz cough ;)
#6 Tectuktitlay Jun 14, 2010 17:31:20	cough Dritzz cough ;) cough Sorak cough ;) But yes, that's the general idea.
#7 beej_silver Jun 14, 2010 18:04:54	I agree in so much as athasian bards don't have to be PHB2 bards. However, I want to point out that bardic magic is the most subtle of the arcane classes. It's nothing flashy (unless the character defiles) in many cases, and it could just be seen as the inherent power of music to affect people. What I'm getting at here is that while athasian bards need not be PC bards, PC bards can still be athasian bards. It coule be that they don't see their music as magic at all, but more likely such characters may look at sorcery as just another poison - effective, subtle, and deadly. Of course, PC bards who wantonly defile would still be viewed as dangerous sorcerers. And that could actually make for an interesting story, assuming the character survives the fury of the populace+templars.
#8 DoctorBadWolf Jun 15, 2010 3:08:04	I'm just going to say that unless the player specifically wants to make them arcane, bards aren't arcane in DS. Instead, their power source is Song. I'll also be monitoring power/feat choices for Bards, and if the player is trying to make a DS style bard with the bard class, I'll be pointing them away from obviously arcane options, and instead encourage them to use spellblades and instruments, and use melee powers and powers which could reasonably be contrued as coming from one's voice. I'll leave to them how they want to get the assassin/spy parts in there. with the open mcing of bards, and their awesome skill popential, i'm not seeing many problems. On the other hand, a Nightstalker Assassin with the Venom Hand feats wouldn't need much to be a DS bard. Maybe the alchemist feat?
#9 visanidethdm Jun 15, 2010 4:09:51	I'm gonna allow players pick two options for playing a Bard in my games: - the iconic Athasian Bard (spy, assassin, dancer and entertainer) will be fluffed into either Rogues or Assassins (on the player preference, depending on the specific character set of talents). - the actual Bard class is re-named Song-Weaver. I'm gonna introduce a plot element concerning the unveiling of an ancient, Blue Age construct in the middle of the Sea of Silt, a few years before the campaign's kick off. The group of adventurers who would out the place never returned, but it's rumored they unlocked an hidden room and from that day it was possible, at times, to hear what sounded like a singing voice in the desert wind, deep but still graceful. From that day, on rare occasions, women who were pregnant during desert travels have given birth to children with - insert physical feature I've not thought about yet - and the gift of singing and dancing. These children (would be Bards, if they choose so), can speak Draconic (actually all barding music and singing is in Draconic for this version of the class), and singing in that language brings about magical portents. I intend to use this fluff premise for certain type of sorcerers too - basically following the idea that when an ancient dragon (the original thing, as I plan to play around the now-extinct race and their relationships with Rajaat and current dragon kings quite a bit) tomb was unlocked, some powerful draconic cosmic spell called something like the Song of Creation was unleashed, and it's "tainting" people making them into natural arcane spellcasters. The Song isn't evil or menacing per se, but it's very powerful and comes from a time where Defiling wasn't an issue - technically speaking, arcane magic didn't even exist, and the song was a failed experiment dragons were trying way before Rajaat made his own discovery; while Rajaat invented arcane magic in a rational, Int-based, Wizard like way, this was the typical wild-talent-magic-flows-in-my-blood dragon thing. They saw the effects, and locked the cosmic spell away. Now the Song is free again, and while using it, bards and sorcerors go through what is generally called the Trance, which doesn't strip them of their own free will but often leads them to savage defiling (I've prepared small pieces of fluff like tales of that young dancer who entertained travelers at a campfire, and one night the dance carried her away and when she came to her senses everyone around her was burnt to a crisp and all plantlife in a square mile was dead in order to create a "witch hunt" climate around natural arcane casters).
#10 big_goon Jun 15, 2010 10:31:13	I'm sensing that Bard might make a decent theme.