I took a look at what Dark Sun could look like in the next version of D&D. Rather than repost it all here (caution, it's long and detailed), I'll just link it:
http://community.wizards.com/content/blog/818796
Some stuff covered:
-Races, both new ones and different subraces
-Classes
-Divine magic, templars, domains for sorcerer-kings
-Arcane magic and defiling
-Equipment, weapon materials and breakage rules
-Travel, dehydration, exhaustion and desperation rules
-Spell lists and alterations for the setting
I really like is how easy it is to bring in some old 2e elements, tweak them a bit and use them again in Next. All we really need for it to gel is psionics, but that could be a very long wait indeed. In the meantime I have an idea or two about how to handle that.
Could you reflavour divine to psionic? eg: Cleric become mind-bender, paladin becomes battle-mind type, etc.
1. I missed defiliing and how evil it was from 2nd edition
2. I think that 4th edition made things too simple. ( having ceramic coins and different material costs for wood obsidian and stone etc..)
3. I thought some of the races needed something other than just "fluff" for the dark sun change.( really bummed about half giants being nothing more than goliaths)
4. Psionics- really wasted in 4th edition rules but that couldn't be helped with the way that powers and stuff were designed but really missed some of the old elements of psionics.
Improvements with Next
1. Keep the setting time period the same as 4th. Hated how Athas eneded up after the books were all finished. Dark sun should be all about opression even in a single free state and the Sorceror kings help acomplish that.
2. As this article did an excellent job of detailing some of the things I thought were lacking in 4th edition ( see 1-4 above) I hope that the offical stuff follows your lead on bringing back some of the topics you hit on here. Really nice work here.
3. Hope that the development team creates an awesome psionics system that is easy to use yet not simplistic as 4th edition so that players feel like they have something that is very different from "magics" such as arcane and devine.
I think that the Next version of Dark Sun will be much better than both 2nd edition and 4th but it is going to be a long wait.
Could you reflavour divine to psionic? eg: Cleric become mind-bender, paladin becomes battle-mind type, etc.
You could, I suppose, but it would be a heavy lift. By that I mean a lot of work by the DM, and by the player to fit the desired psionic feel. And what would you do about templars and elemental clerics?
nice dark sun writeup. Definitely going to use this until d&d 5e releases some dark sun content
Defiling Idea (PEACH)
Defiling: Whenever you cast any Arcane Spell you may chose to Defile. Defiling allows you to augment a Spell with Metamagick Effects without paying their normal costs by instead, completely destroying all Flora within a circle around you as determined by the Spell's Adjusted Level.
Mechanic: When you Defile, you cast a Spell normally, expending a Spell Slot equal to the Spell's Level or higher. When you choose to Defile (but before any Rolls are made), you may then use any Metamagick effect you know without paying its normal cost. Instead, you calculate what the Spell's Adjusted Level woud be for applying the Metamagick effect to it and all Flora dies in a diameter circle centered on you equal to 10 feet x the Spell's Adjusted Level.
- List of Metmagick Effects will probably be in PHB under Feats or something.
- I was also thinking it could give Advantage on Spell Attack Rolls. Maybe as an alternative to Metamagick? Or in addition. Would be strong, but Defiling is supposed to be tempting. Probably need to wait to see actual Metamagick.
- We also need rules for Defiling with Obsidian and potentially other Materials, anyone wants to suggest? What 2e book is that stuff in again?
- I could also see some sort of optional Corruption rules along the lines of 3e Taint/Corruption and 4e Abyssal Madness. We could be a little more liberal with some of the applications for Defiling if it had certain cumulative mechanical drawbacks as well as role-playing ones.
Maybe have it grant Advantage by default with the visible Flora destruction but if you optionally submit to a Corruption/Taint/Madness/Defiling Roll, you may utilize Defiling to apply Metamagick Effects to your Spells as above. It could be a Wisdom or Charisma Save of something like 10 + Adjusted Spell Level (+ something else?). If you fail, you gain a number of Corruption points equal to the Adjusted Spell Level (or, alternatively, 1 Point for SL 1-3, 2 Points for SL 4-6, and 3 Points for SL 7-9, etc.). Then you gain effects based on the number of points you have. You lose 1 Corruption Point a day/week/month? if you don't Defile at all (and maybe under certain other circumstances). You have to have a certain Corruption Score to become a Dragon.
Any jargon changes for 5e or other evaluations would be appreciated
hey oskar we use a very similar system for defiling when they defile they augment the spell with metamagic. we use the 10'x spell level for the desructive radius also. as far as materials like obsidian, example noks staff from the psionic artifacts book. anyone caught in the radius the gets a penalty on initative with all defiling regardless of material (disadvantage ,but do not wnat to over use this mechanic so we went with -1 per spell level) plus takes damage with material like obsidian ( save to reduce damage) the damage is 1/charcter level +1 per spell level. we also use a corruption system when they defile they make a save roll if save fails they gain 1 point (we tried the 1point/spell level they we gain corruption points to quick) when the points eqaul a quarter of their level they start to suffer coruption effects ect. there is no way to reset these points we left that a druid quest thing. we did add one addition feature which iam sure nobody on thes boards will like but it seems to work for us and has been great fun in game., gathering is a seperate action, if the miss an ability check the Dc is dependent on the terrain. they do get a bonus on the roll they add thier ability mod + class modifier ,like +2 at 3rd level the numbers seems to work .if they make the roll then they get certain bonus folloinf 5ed rules and the gather becomes part of the casting action. .... those psionics are killing us we are now working on a 4th system we do not want to exclude them for the sake of simplisty it is just to big a part of darksun.
Cool stuff man, count me as one fo your Athasians followers for this work. I have a FanMade Cover for my campaign...
I ve been using Disadvantage when saving agains a defilers spell, nothing can actually be used to negate this effect, even inspiration. How would you handle this...?
jlpinli That sounds great. I might end up using a version of that if I play earlier than Dark Sun 5e releases. I might scale back on some of the tracking between rounds just because I tend to play with new people who have a hard time remembering such things (and as a DM, I'm usually getting progressively drunker as the night progresses), but yea, great idea. I'm just going to repost is a more legible format on here for others' benefit.
Preserving: Preserving is the default way of casting Arcane Spells on Athas. To do so, you must first Gather Mana. To Gather, make a Charisma Check against a DC determined by the Spell Level of the Spell you intend to cast and the Terrain you're on (insert chart). If you are successful, you may Gather as a Bonus Action. If you are unsuccessful, you must spend your Action that turn Gathering Mana, and may then expend the it on your following turn to cast a Spell of Spell Level less than or equal to the Spell you originally Gathered Mana for. If you Cast a Spell of Spell Level less than the Spell Level of the Spell you originally Gathered Mana for, you subtract it from your 'Pool' and retain the difference, which may be used to cast subsequent Spell until it runs out.
Defiling: When you Defile, you cast an Arcane Spell normally but you do not need to Gather Mana to fuel it. Instead you merely expend a Spell Slot equal to the Spell's Level or higher. When you choose to Defile (but before any Rolls are made), all Flora dies within a diameter circle centered on you equal to 10 feet x the expended Spell's Slot Level (x Terrain modifier?) and you gain Advantage on the Spell Attack/Save?
Corruption: Additionally, when you Defile, you may choose to Corrupt yourself to further augment your Spell's power. Whenever you Defile, in addition to the normal effects of Defiling, you may choose to use any Metamagick Effect you know without paying its normal cost. If you do, you calculate what the Spell's Adjusted Level would be after applying whatever Metamagick effects to it and, instead of the normal Penalties for Defiling, all Flora dies in a diameter circle centered on you equal to 10 feet x the Spell's Adjusted Level (x Terrain Modifier?), anyone caught in the Defiled Area gets a Penalty on Initiative Checks equal to -1 per Adjusted Spell Level and you make a Wisdom Save. The Save DC is equal to ????. If you fail the Save, you gain 1 Corruption Point. Corruption Points stay with you and can only be removed by ????. Consult the chart below for the effects of Corruption (insert chart). You must have a Corruption score of at least ???? to become a Kaisharga, Dragon, etc.
Obsidian: Any creature caught in the Defiled Area makes a Con/Wis/Cha? Save. If the Save fails, that creature takes Necrotic Damage equal to 1 per character level (or per HD for Monsters) + 1 per Spell Level.
Did I interpret it more or less correctly? I had a difficult time understanding how Preserving worked for you and also, the durations for the Initiative Penalty and the DC's for various things, obviously. Also, I think it might be better, since they never go away, if Corruption Point followed a linear progression, rather than being Level Dependent, for example, 1-5 CP = X Effect, 6-10 CP = Y effect, etc. I think an Atonement Spell, Wish, Limited Wish, etc. might be able to help these go away. Otherwise, I think they should only go away if a creature performs some sort of quest-related Penance or something. Finally, I think Terrain should play some role in Defiling as well, unless you use Obsidian, at which point, I think it should be optional? Could Obsidian add something more? Like allowing you to use the effect of Corruption while circumventing the costs? That might have given Nok a good reason for making a Staff of it. PS - Mana is just my word for life-force or whatever, I've always used it in Dark Sun, just seemed a good fit.
Also - I just found this in Ritorix's Dark Sun Next thread:
Failure means the spell taps into your own life force as well. The spell has the normal effect. After it is cast, the caster takes 1 necrotic damage per character level, plus 1 necrotic damage per spell level. Whether or not the check succeeds, the land is defiled for 1 yard per spell level in a circle of decay surrounding the caster. Defiled land counts as barren terrain if another defile attempt is made in the same spot.
I'll try to work on this more to combine it all into a cohesive and hopefully less wordy mechanic.
Great job Oskar. Even my own write up of the mechanic is a bit wordy. Yes you did a pretty good job of rewriting what I said. Ok I’ll try and fill in your questions. The 5ed save (I think) is DC8/10 + casters ability modifier + their level modifier which is +2 at 3rd level. Those caught in the defiling radius would use their constitution modifiers +class level. As far as how long the effect lasted we role for new initiative after each turn so this effect lasted till the end of the following turn. you did a better job with the preserving mechanic than I had originally wrote up the difference being to gather manna it use the casters main ability(int) vs a set terrain DC .we simply started with 10 +2 per terrain type best being 10 (lush) + the spells level they roll the 1d20 adding their ability mod +class mod. The defiler just got the bonus action so no gather manna terrain chart needed and yes they gained advantage to the attack and targets were at disadvantage to save. As for adding to the destruction radius using a terrain mod we just could not come up with a clean number. We toyed with the idea +5' per terrain type there are 6 (lush, abundant, fertile, infertile, barren, and desolate). When the preserver chooses to defile they do not have a choice in the corruption point matter, they either made the save (constitution) or didn’t if they didn’t they got 1 point of corruption. Corruption points can only be removed by a druid (story quest or spell).there are 3 levels of corruption, minor, mild, and severe. Ill add in the obsidian it makes a lot of sense and truth be I like. We as a group did think corruption should or might have been linear, well not level dependent. The reason we did not is we said the preserver could defile x times (limited but at no real cost) when they when over this limit before attaining a new level, save or get a point.
That sounds good, I will tke that into account when I have time to draft it in full. I'd like to incorporate ritorix's ideas as well.
sounds good looking forward to seeng the write up Oskar.
Initial write-up for Preserving and Defiling. More for depth of application than simplicity, drawing more from the AD&D stuff than 4E. I tried to make it as concise and flowing as possible. I also have some Variant Rules but I wanted to make sure the Basics were set before finishing and posting them. PS - There is a reason for using Spell Dice as it ports into some of the Variant Rules more easily. The chart is used with both Preserving and Defiling entries.
Arcane Magick:
Arcane Magick is fueled by the vital life-force of living beings on Athas. This force is called ‘Mana.’ In order to cast any Arcane Spell, one must first Draw Mana. Normally, one can only Draw Mana from one’s self and from Flora, because Flora do not retain individuated egos. With certain Materials however, one can also Draw Mana from Fauna other than one’s self.
There are two ways to Draw Mana, Preserving and Defiling. Preserving Draws Mana slowly, gathering only as much Mana as living beings are willing to part with and collecting it into an Arcanist’s Mana Pool.
Defiling, on the other hand, rips away other beings’ Mana against their will, drawing it greedily and crippling or killing the beings it takes from. Defiling is also potentially dangerous to the Defiler themself. Normally, when one Defiles, all Flora is destroyed in a sphere around them and thenceforth, that area can no longer support life. However, there is also a chance the Defiler cannot get enough energy from their surroundings and end up Drawing Mana from themselves to make up the difference, harming themselves in the process.
Because Defiling is easier and can potentially bequeath more power unto an Arcanist, it has often been abused by those seeking a short-cut to power. Thus has Defiling rendered Athas largely desolate over the millennia and resulted in Defilers being universally reviled by the common-folk of Athas. Likewise, all Arcanists suffer from a stigma associated with their craft because most Athasians view Arcanists, at best, as untrustworthy and at worst, as ticking time-bombs.