Dark Sun Psionicists - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dark Sun Psionicists

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Goldrak
Jun 25, 2012 17:38:52 Hi!

Due to the lacking of variety of psionicist opponents (human/dwarf/elf/etc.) in the Dark Sun Creature Catalog (something like the Gith Drone), i'm trying to make some, but i don't have a clear notion of proper monster balance.

Can anyone recommend existing monsters that could be used as a base to psionicists? Or better yet can anyone reccomend a source of converted psionicists to 4e that i can look at?

Thanks!
#2
CALEBROBERTS
Jun 25, 2012 18:06:08 i would just use an arcane type enemy (Wizard, Mindflayer...etc) Then reflavor damage types and maybe some effects.

The Psionic flavor is all in your telling as the DM.
#3
swmabie
Jun 25, 2012 22:06:37 Can also use the Psionic Adept monster theme from the DSCC. Pick an attack and utility for each enemy. They don't tend to throw things out of balance, from my experience, and they give 7 attacks and 4 utilities, so you should be able to shuffle things up so that they're not all identical.

Another option might be to take Aberrant Humanoids from the monster manuals and refluff them as something else; those tend to favor psychic attacks and damage. Look at some of the Chaos Scar adventures if you can; they had quite a few warped individuals. Maybe some of the fey, too, for charm attacks.

But, really, you can use anything that uses any source. Not just arcane; shadow, primal, divine, or even martial.

As CR said, the only thing the players will know is what you tell them. If you tell them they're psionicists, they'll have no reason to believe otherwise.
#4
Goldrak
Jun 26, 2012 6:55:27 Hi!

I do have a lot of ideas and your suggestions will certainly improve them, but my main question is about game balance.

For instance i want to have a "psychoportation" teleport power that level 5 monsters have:

Move action
5 squares (encounter) or 3 squares (at will)

A monster might have a power that is balanced with all others but if i take powers from 3 different monsters the resulting combination might not be balanced for its level (that i want to keep).

Thanks
#5
ToeSama
Jun 26, 2012 7:46:10 Teleporting 5 squares isn't unbalanced for a level 5 monster. There's a standard monster that can teleport 10 at that level. If you'd rather not give it so much free movement, add a trigger or recharge limitation to the power's usage.

Happy Gaming
#6
Goldrak
Jun 26, 2012 11:11:46 Here is one example of what i'm trying to do:

Level 5 human controller:
This guy is supposed to be a pure movement controller, even giving up damage to improve movement control.
I have several options and would appreciate some comments regarding balance:

Standard Actions
"Kinetic Blade" (At will)
Basic Melee 1 (one creature), + 10 vs AC, 2d6 + 3 damage and the target is pushed 2/3 squares.
Basic Melee 1 (one creature), + 10 vs AC, 1d6 + 3 damage and the target is pushed 3/4 squares and slowed (save ends).

"Telekinetic Maneuvre" (At will)
Basic Ranged 10 (one creature), + 9 vs Fortitude, 2d6 + 3 damage and the target is slided 3/4 squares.
or
Basic Ranged 10 (one creature), + 9 vs Fortitude, 1d6 + 3 damage and the target is slided 4/5 squares and knocked prone.
or
Basic Ranged 10 (one creature), + 9 vs Fortitude, 1d6 + 3 and the target is slided 5 squares and knocked prone.
Secondary attack: any creature that the target passes adjacently while slided, + 7 vs Fortitude, no damage and is knocked prone.

"Mind Wave" (at will) or (encounter) or (encounter recharge [5][6])
Close Burst 1 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Fortitude, 2d6 +3 damage and the target is pushed 1/2 square.
or
Close Burst 1 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Fortitude, 1d6 +3 damage and the target is pushed 2/3 squares and immobilized (save ends).
or
Close Burst 1 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Fortitude, no damage and the target is pushed 3 squares, knocked prone and immobilized (save ends).

"Concussive Blast" (encounter) or (encounter recharge [6])
Area Burst 1/2 within 10 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Reflex, 2d6 +3 damage and the target is dazed (save ends).
or
Area Burst 1/2 within 10 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Reflex, 1d6 +3 damage and the target is dazed (save ends) and knocked prone.
or
Area Burst 1/2 within 10 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Reflex, no damage and the target is stunned (save ends). Aftereffect: target is dazed (save ends)

"Psychoportation"

As a Move Action
Teleports 3 squares (at will)
or
Teleports 5 squares (encounter)/(encounter recharge [5][6])

As a Triggered Action
As an immedite reaction when hit by an attack
Teleports 5 squares (encounter- interrupt)/(encounter recharge [5][6] - reaction)

Minor Action
"Psychic Winds" (At will)/(encounter)/(encounter recharge [5][6])
Can slide an ally up to 2/3 squares
#7
ToeSama
Jun 26, 2012 11:25:07 I could be wrong, but it seems like you're trying to use the idea of various effects to a single power based on the use of power points. Truth be told, I don't think you should bother with it, as it bogs down things and just makes more work for you. Monsters need to be easier to track than PCs because of the number of monsters a DM runs at a single instance. With something like this, it only adds more extra unneeded baggage with what should be a simple creature.

Pick the effect that is most condusive to what the monster is trying to do and make it the effect as it is. It will save you a lot of extra work in the lon run.
#8
CALEBROBERTS
Jun 26, 2012 11:32:56 In 3.x, monsters were made around the same rules as character.

In 4e, monsters are totaly different (Read simpler). Your monster will survive, at most, 3 rounds. Don't give it really cool powers that you will never use.

Like ToeSama said "Pick the power that is iconic to that type of enemy", then give it a basic attack and a move power.

If the monster is elite, give it a power that attacks multiple enemies at-will
#9
Goldrak
Jun 29, 2012 10:54:39
I could be wrong, but it seems like you're trying to use the idea of various effects to a single power based on the use of power points. Truth be told, I don't think you should bother with it, as it bogs down things and just makes more work for you. Monsters need to be easier to track than PCs because of the number of monsters a DM runs at a single instance. With something like this, it only adds more extra unneeded baggage with what should be a simple creature.

Pick the effect that is most condusive to what the monster is trying to do and make it the effect as it is. It will save you a lot of extra work in the lon run.

Probably i made a confusing post.

My idea was not to make a monster that works like it has "powerpoints", i was just presenting several options for the same power to see if they where balanced with each other regardless of the ones i ended choosing for the monster.

Taking in account this thread, here's a sketch of what i came up with:

Human Kineticist (Psychokinesis) Level 5 Controller

Standard Actions
"Telekinetic Strike" (at will)
Basic Melee 1 (one creature), + 10 vs AC, 1d8 + 4 force damage and the target is pushed 1 square.

"Energy Burst" (at will)
When used for the first time in an encounter, as free action choose a damage type; fire, lightning or force. Until the end of the encounter this power will deal this type of damage.
Ranged 5 (one creature), + 9 vs Reflex, on a hit the chosen damage type determines the effect:
* Fire: 1d8 + 4 fire damage, and ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).
* Lightning: 1d8 + 4 lightning damage, and the target is dazed (save ends).
* Force: 2d6 + 3 force damage and the target is pushed 3 squares.

"Energy Vortex" (encounter) * Zone * Fire * Lightning
Fire and lightning elemental energy creates a swirling vortex that suck everything into its centre.
Attack: Area burst 3 within 10 (enemies in the burst); +9 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 5 fire and lightning damage, the target is slowed (save ends) and pulled 2 squares into the center of the burst.
Effect: The burst creates a zone that lasts until the end of the encounter. Any creature that starts its turn in the zone is pulled 1 square into the center of the burst and takes 5 fire and lightning damage. Any creature that enters the zone is pulled 2 squares into the center of the burst.

Minor Action
"Telekinetic Maneuvre" (at will 1/round)
Ranged 10 (one creature), + 9 vs Fortitude, on a hit choose one of the following:
* The target is slided 1 squares.
* The taget falls prone.
* The target is grabbed (save ends).
* The target drops one item he's holding (kineticistc choice).

Move Action
"Telekinetic Flight" (recharge [5] [6])
Effect: This creature pushes each enemy adjacent to it 1 square and then flies its speed.

Any comments are welcome!

[EDIT] The math on the encounter power was wrong, just changed the power.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Goldrak Jun 25, 2012 17:38:52	Hi! Due to the lacking of variety of psionicist opponents (human/dwarf/elf/etc.) in the Dark Sun Creature Catalog (something like the Gith Drone), i'm trying to make some, but i don't have a clear notion of proper monster balance. Can anyone recommend existing monsters that could be used as a base to psionicists? Or better yet can anyone reccomend a source of converted psionicists to 4e that i can look at? Thanks!
#2 CALEBROBERTS Jun 25, 2012 18:06:08	i would just use an arcane type enemy (Wizard, Mindflayer...etc) Then reflavor damage types and maybe some effects. The Psionic flavor is all in your telling as the DM.
#3 swmabie Jun 25, 2012 22:06:37	Can also use the Psionic Adept monster theme from the DSCC. Pick an attack and utility for each enemy. They don't tend to throw things out of balance, from my experience, and they give 7 attacks and 4 utilities, so you should be able to shuffle things up so that they're not all identical. Another option might be to take Aberrant Humanoids from the monster manuals and refluff them as something else; those tend to favor psychic attacks and damage. Look at some of the Chaos Scar adventures if you can; they had quite a few warped individuals. Maybe some of the fey, too, for charm attacks. But, really, you can use anything that uses any source. Not just arcane; shadow, primal, divine, or even martial. As CR said, the only thing the players will know is what you tell them. If you tell them they're psionicists, they'll have no reason to believe otherwise.
#4 Goldrak Jun 26, 2012 6:55:27	Hi! I do have a lot of ideas and your suggestions will certainly improve them, but my main question is about game balance. For instance i want to have a "psychoportation" teleport power that level 5 monsters have: Move action 5 squares (encounter) or 3 squares (at will) A monster might have a power that is balanced with all others but if i take powers from 3 different monsters the resulting combination might not be balanced for its level (that i want to keep). Thanks
#5 ToeSama Jun 26, 2012 7:46:10	Teleporting 5 squares isn't unbalanced for a level 5 monster. There's a standard monster that can teleport 10 at that level. If you'd rather not give it so much free movement, add a trigger or recharge limitation to the power's usage. Happy Gaming
#6 Goldrak Jun 26, 2012 11:11:46	Here is one example of what i'm trying to do: Level 5 human controller: This guy is supposed to be a pure movement controller, even giving up damage to improve movement control. I have several options and would appreciate some comments regarding balance: Standard Actions "Kinetic Blade" (At will) Basic Melee 1 (one creature), + 10 vs AC, 2d6 + 3 damage and the target is pushed 2/3 squares. Basic Melee 1 (one creature), + 10 vs AC, 1d6 + 3 damage and the target is pushed 3/4 squares and slowed (save ends). "Telekinetic Maneuvre" (At will) Basic Ranged 10 (one creature), + 9 vs Fortitude, 2d6 + 3 damage and the target is slided 3/4 squares. or Basic Ranged 10 (one creature), + 9 vs Fortitude, 1d6 + 3 damage and the target is slided 4/5 squares and knocked prone. or Basic Ranged 10 (one creature), + 9 vs Fortitude, 1d6 + 3 and the target is slided 5 squares and knocked prone. Secondary attack: any creature that the target passes adjacently while slided, + 7 vs Fortitude, no damage and is knocked prone. "Mind Wave" (at will) or (encounter) or (encounter recharge [5][6]) Close Burst 1 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Fortitude, 2d6 +3 damage and the target is pushed 1/2 square. or Close Burst 1 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Fortitude, 1d6 +3 damage and the target is pushed 2/3 squares and immobilized (save ends). or Close Burst 1 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Fortitude, no damage and the target is pushed 3 squares, knocked prone and immobilized (save ends). "Concussive Blast" (encounter) or (encounter recharge [6]) Area Burst 1/2 within 10 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Reflex, 2d6 +3 damage and the target is dazed (save ends). or Area Burst 1/2 within 10 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Reflex, 1d6 +3 damage and the target is dazed (save ends) and knocked prone. or Area Burst 1/2 within 10 (all creatures in burst), + 9 vs Reflex, no damage and the target is stunned (save ends). Aftereffect: target is dazed (save ends) "Psychoportation" As a Move Action Teleports 3 squares (at will) or Teleports 5 squares (encounter)/(encounter recharge [5][6]) As a Triggered Action As an immedite reaction when hit by an attack Teleports 5 squares (encounter- interrupt)/(encounter recharge [5][6] - reaction) Minor Action "Psychic Winds" (At will)/(encounter)/(encounter recharge [5][6]) Can slide an ally up to 2/3 squares
#7 ToeSama Jun 26, 2012 11:25:07	I could be wrong, but it seems like you're trying to use the idea of various effects to a single power based on the use of power points. Truth be told, I don't think you should bother with it, as it bogs down things and just makes more work for you. Monsters need to be easier to track than PCs because of the number of monsters a DM runs at a single instance. With something like this, it only adds more extra unneeded baggage with what should be a simple creature. Pick the effect that is most condusive to what the monster is trying to do and make it the effect as it is. It will save you a lot of extra work in the lon run.
#8 CALEBROBERTS Jun 26, 2012 11:32:56	In 3.x, monsters were made around the same rules as character. In 4e, monsters are totaly different (Read simpler). Your monster will survive, at most, 3 rounds. Don't give it really cool powers that you will never use. Like ToeSama said "Pick the power that is iconic to that type of enemy", then give it a basic attack and a move power. If the monster is elite, give it a power that attacks multiple enemies at-will
#9 Goldrak Jun 29, 2012 10:54:39	I could be wrong, but it seems like you're trying to use the idea of various effects to a single power based on the use of power points. Truth be told, I don't think you should bother with it, as it bogs down things and just makes more work for you. Monsters need to be easier to track than PCs because of the number of monsters a DM runs at a single instance. With something like this, it only adds more extra unneeded baggage with what should be a simple creature. Pick the effect that is most condusive to what the monster is trying to do and make it the effect as it is. It will save you a lot of extra work in the lon run. Probably i made a confusing post. My idea was not to make a monster that works like it has "powerpoints", i was just presenting several options for the same power to see if they where balanced with each other regardless of the ones i ended choosing for the monster. Taking in account this thread, here's a sketch of what i came up with: Human Kineticist (Psychokinesis) Level 5 Controller Standard Actions "Telekinetic Strike" (at will) Basic Melee 1 (one creature), + 10 vs AC, 1d8 + 4 force damage and the target is pushed 1 square. "Energy Burst" (at will) When used for the first time in an encounter, as free action choose a damage type; fire, lightning or force. Until the end of the encounter this power will deal this type of damage. Ranged 5 (one creature), + 9 vs Reflex, on a hit the chosen damage type determines the effect: * Fire: 1d8 + 4 fire damage, and ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends). * Lightning: 1d8 + 4 lightning damage, and the target is dazed (save ends). * Force: 2d6 + 3 force damage and the target is pushed 3 squares. "Energy Vortex" (encounter) * Zone * Fire * Lightning Fire and lightning elemental energy creates a swirling vortex that suck everything into its centre. Attack: Area burst 3 within 10 (enemies in the burst); +9 vs. Fortitude Hit: 5 fire and lightning damage, the target is slowed (save ends) and pulled 2 squares into the center of the burst. Effect: The burst creates a zone that lasts until the end of the encounter. Any creature that starts its turn in the zone is pulled 1 square into the center of the burst and takes 5 fire and lightning damage. Any creature that enters the zone is pulled 2 squares into the center of the burst. Minor Action "Telekinetic Maneuvre" (at will 1/round) Ranged 10 (one creature), + 9 vs Fortitude, on a hit choose one of the following: * The target is slided 1 squares. * The taget falls prone. * The target is grabbed (save ends). * The target drops one item he's holding (kineticistc choice). Move Action "Telekinetic Flight" (recharge [5] [6]) Effect: This creature pushes each enemy adjacent to it 1 square and then flies its speed. Any comments are welcome! [EDIT] The math on the encounter power was wrong, just changed the power.