It would be nice if they released Ravenloft as an official campaign setting again.
...the setting was little more than a poor attempt at a DUNE ripoff then and it will prove to be little more than that now...
As opposed to a LoTR and Dying Earth rip off?
If you were not going to release anything soon Wizards, then why the heck give us ANY part of Ravenloft???
I thought they were going to make Ravenloft part of the Core system... like Greyhawk...
Wasn't it first just an adventure in AD&D?
This book also suggests that you could have Borovia in any setting (I even put it into my Ars Magica setting once, and its always attatched to the shadowfell in my games, if you play in my games and are reading this... ignore this last part)
I would like to see a Ravenloft Setting also... one that expands on Shifters and Damphyr, and possibly includes the Revenant
Not Hating... Ravenloft is my Second Favorite setting, Dark Sun just happens to be my favorite!!
Well that makes a whole lot of no sense. Here we have Wizards giving hints at Ravenloft the entire time that 4th edition has been out - with domains of dread in several Dragon magazines, and Lord Strahd himself in Open Grave.
And what does Wizards do? Bring back a dead system from 2nd edition? Pfft - the setting was little more than a poor attempt at a DUNE ripoff then and it will prove to be little more than that now - just reflavored for the pitiful excuse of the psionic class that has been thrust upon the ligitimate spellcasters.
Personally, this is just another fine example of Wizard's blundering.
And I suppose the next world they will release will probably be Dragonlance - that miserable excuse for a campaign setting that is little more than a hacked up version of a horrific soap opera that should have died out with acid wash jeans and pac-man fever. ("I'm a god of light but I lost my memory and have amnesa - so I'll run around like a little immortal harlot and have relations with all the evil gods until I can find myself...)"
If you were not going to release anything soon Wizards, then why the heck give us ANY part of Ravenloft???
My best response to this complaint? Concern? Is Here.
Also, I'm a huge ravenloft fan. Huge. Bought pretty much every arthaus book for 3rd ed, own the old boxed sets, the guides, everything. love it to death. But it is being covered to a degree, and in fact, i'm kind of happy we're getting new domains, even if they are very different. Ravenloft needed a facelift, no question. some of those domains were awful, and the patchwork quilt of the core that once seemed so interesting was wearing a little thin. even with the fantastic gazeteers. I'd love to see ravenloft reimagined, but as has been stated, it's something you can do pretty easily on your own, moreso than many other campaign settings.
And we should all be incredibly thankful it wasn't dragonlance, the corpse that refuses to stay dead. It was a great trilogy (i'll even say two trilogies). let it rest in peace, with some dignity and respect.
Pfft - the setting was little more than a poor attempt at a DUNE ripoff then and it will prove to be little more than that now - just reflavored for the pitiful excuse of the psionic class that has been thrust upon the ligitimate spellcasters.
1) Dark Sun isn't a Dune rip off.
2) Psionics in D&D is awsome.
Personally, this is just another fine example of Wizard's blundering.
No, its them making one of the most amazing choices ever. Dark Sun rocks.
Well that makes a whole lot of no sense. Here we have Wizards giving hints at Ravenloft the entire time that 4th edition has been out - with domains of dread in several Dragon magazines, and Lord Strahd himself in Open Grave.
And what does Wizards do? Bring back a dead system from 2nd edition? Pfft - the setting was little more than a poor attempt at a DUNE ripoff then and it will prove to be little more than that now - just reflavored for the pitiful excuse of the psionic class that has been thrust upon the ligitimate spellcasters.
Personally, this is just another fine example of Wizard's blundering.
And I suppose the next world they will release will probably be Dragonlance - that miserable excuse for a campaign setting that is little more than a hacked up version of a horrific soap opera that should have died out with acid wash jeans and pac-man fever. ("I'm a god of light but I lost my memory and have amnesa - so I'll run around like a little immortal harlot and have relations with all the evil gods until I can find myself...)"
If you were not going to release anything soon Wizards, then why the heck give us ANY part of Ravenloft???
In the off chance that this is more than trolling, all I have to say is you have no one to blame but yourself for thinking that Ravenloft was going to be the announcement. WotC has said reapeatedly Ravenloft has been folded into the core. THAT is the reason there are Domains of Dread articles in Dragon, and THAT is the reason Strahd is in Open Graves. Ravenloft is not going to get a seperate setting done, and WotC has been very open about this.
In the off chance that this is more than trolling, all I have to say is you have no one to blame but yourself for thinking that Ravenloft was going to be the announcement. WotC has said reapeatedly Ravenloft has been folded into the core. THAT is the reason there are Domains of Dread articles in Dragon, and THAT is the reason Strahd is in Open Graves. Ravenloft is not going to get a seperate setting done, and WotC has been very open about this.
This. And judging from trips to my daughter's school, acid-washed jeans are making a comeback. Oh, and Pac-Man never stopped being cool.
I love Ravenloft, but RL has always been much easier to just run on your own without a setting. It's a bunch of completely different, for the most part unrelated realms thrown together into a "setting". In my opinion, it works much better the way it's being presented in 4E. Just be happy that it's a part of the core. That means it is present in pretty much every campaign setting now.
And just think how much fun the Castle Ravenloft board game is going to be.
Vistani? Not unique enough to actually deserve their own racial stats.
Those half-orc things with the other name? Half-orc re-fluffed to start with, Half-orc re-fluffed still works just fine.
Other than that, the only thing that could be done mechanically would be to force feed some alignment based crap (it was always crap to be punished for wanting a good alignment/be a paladin) back into the game... meaning there is a massive lack of need for any updated mechanics - and fluff is timeless, just like Strahd.
Also - tossing around words like "dead setting from 2nd edition," and acting like that doesn't apply to Ravenloft just as much as it does to Dark Sun... bit ignorant considering Ravenloft being printed under the Sword & Sorcery label by White Wolf (professional fan updates if you will), and Dark Sun being carried through 3rd edition by way of internet fan-sites.
So... now that Alignment is completely irrelevant (mechanically), what would Ravenloft even need as far as new rules?
Vistani? Not unique enough to actually deserve their own racial stats.
Those half-orc things with the other name? Half-orc re-fluffed to start with, Half-orc re-fluffed still works just fine.
Other than that, the only thing that could be done mechanically would be to force feed some alignment based crap (it was always crap to be punished for wanting a good alignment/be a paladin) back into the game... meaning there is a massive lack of need for any updated mechanics - and fluff is timeless, just like Strahd.
Also - tossing around words like "dead setting from 2nd edition," and acting like that doesn't apply to Ravenloft just as much as it does to Dark Sun... bit ignorant considering Ravenloft being printed under the Sword & Sorcery label by White Wolf (professional fan updates if you will), and Dark Sun being carried through 3rd edition by way of internet fan-sites.
And horror and madness checks will simply be attacks against your will. You can even track your slip into insanity or catatonia the same way you track diseases in 4E.
1) Dark Sun isn't a Dune rip off.
2) Psionics in D&D is awsome.
No, its them making one of the most amazing choices ever. Dark Sun rocks.
Sounds like it's a trolling attempt, one of those "I didn't get what I want, so I will bash WOTC thinking that my one little rant will get me what I want" type threads. Ravenloft was cool, but still too close to the "high fantasy" settings. Dark Sun was the obvious choice for something completely different. There is enough Ravenloft material to run a good game, this is just about recognition. Besides, they got their props in 3E, Dark Sun only got a few Dragon/Dungeon articles, so I am glad it's coming back.
Well that makes a whole lot of no sense. Here we have Wizards giving hints at Ravenloft the entire time that 4th edition has been out - with domains of dread in several Dragon magazines, and Lord Strahd himself in Open Grave.
And what does Wizards do? Bring back a dead system from 2nd edition? Pfft - the setting was little more than a poor attempt at a DUNE ripoff then and it will prove to be little more than that now - just reflavored for the pitiful excuse of the psionic class that has been thrust upon the ligitimate spellcasters.
Personally, this is just another fine example of Wizard's blundering.
And I suppose the next world they will release will probably be Dragonlance - that miserable excuse for a campaign setting that is little more than a hacked up version of a horrific soap opera that should have died out with acid wash jeans and pac-man fever. ("I'm a god of light but I lost my memory and have amnesa - so I'll run around like a little immortal harlot and have relations with all the evil gods until I can find myself...)"
If you were not going to release anything soon Wizards, then why the heck give us ANY part of Ravenloft???
Considering they openly said Ravenloft has been folded into the core rules. (I bet we're getting an adventure chain for it sooner or later) I don't see why you are acting the way you are.
If you read Open grave, Manual of the planes etc they talk about Domains of Dread and Ravenloft is one of those. It's not a matter of "giving hints" it's a matter of them folding classic modules into the game.
Which is all Ravenloft was, was a module not a full blown Setting. I like it this way actually, it gives you more artistic License.
Dark Sun, is more than a "rip off" of Dune and an "excuse" for "psionics which is inferior to magic". Dark Sun is a post apocalyptic world, if anything it's a gestalt between Mad Max, Dune, Psychic infused fantasy and two parts awesome.
as opposed to D&D which was just a rip off of Tolkien with loose inspirations from Dying Earth in it.
Let me guess you do naughty things to the Wizard class every night too? :P
I don't think you've noticed but a whole lot of people like Psychic powers.
Maybe it's time you grew up out of the 80s fantasy and actually looked at what's going on in the modern rpg world? *and modern fantasy period*
Next thing you'll be telling us is that Tech and Magic have no place next to each other, and that Paladins should always have to be Lawful Good or that Fighters should always be inferior to Casters because they aren't magic users.
For my Ravenloft needs Wotc has already provided me with everything I need to run it.
So... now that Alignment is completely irrelevant (mechanically), what would Ravenloft even need as far as new rules?
- fluff is timeless, just like Strahd.
.
Yah! quit your btching troll, get yourself the 3e gazeteers and start playing some 4e ravenloft.
Dark sun is the go to choice. Thank you Wizards. Psionics rocks!
And we should all be incredibly thankful it wasn't dragonlance, the corpse that refuses to stay dead. It was a great trilogy (i'll even say two trilogies). let it rest in peace, with some dignity and respect.
And let the kender stay buried with it.
I must say that I enjoyed running it, and my players all tell me they had a great time. They were involved in the story, and it wasn't just a rush to get to the next encounter. They didn't even realize they were in a Domain of Dread until a couple sessions in, when it dawned on them they couldn't escape by kicking in doors, and recalled passing through a thick fog before arriving at the cursed village of Graefmotte.
This "Oh, SH*T" moment would NOT have happened in past editions, because of the needless setting built around what were essentially extended modules. Who wants to run 30 levels of PCs traipsing from Domain-to-Domain solving the emotional problems of immortals? Do it once, and the effort has/feels like it has value, and the payoff is REWARDING in a purely roleplaying and story-centric way.
If every success is met with a trip into another dark lords nightmare, the story of each individual domain suffers and you have diminishing returns. All that amounts to is playing a goth-tinged high-fantasy "Quantum Leap": Good for a few seasons, repetitive and forgettable towards the end.
Shadowcraft: Surprise your PCs by trapping them in the Shadowfell for a few levels, and springing the Ravenloft trope on them as a surpise; an extended skill challenge, encounter-set, and story-based milestones for their eventual release. Don't tell them what's up, just hit all the narrative beats and let them figure it out themselves, with knowledge checks where appropriate/necessary. They will thank you for it, and you will enjoy it, too.
Best of Luck!
If every success is met with a trip into another dark lords nightmare, the story of each individual domain suffers and you have diminishing returns. All that amounts to is playing a goth-tinged high-fantasy "Quantum Leap": Good for a few seasons, repetitive and forgettable towards the end.
I don't know that I agree with that. I think a goth-tinged high-fantasy Quantum Leap can be a very pleasurable game. Not to mention, playing Ravenloft as a setting was never really about helping the immortals, it was about figuring out a way to escape without turning into an immortal yourself. It was about the growing depravity and inhumanity one inevitably faced when surrounded by a world of depravity and inhumanity...
Hell, look in the Dragonlance thread and you'll see people going on about how to try to fit things into it and going on about the novels. Look in the Dark Sun thread and it's very different. It's going on about what hints we've received and how they could related to Dark Sun.
If you're bitter well that's your problem. But don't say blatantly false things.
If you thought Ravenloft was on it's way to getting a setting book, you have not been paying as much attention as you claim to have been.
Yeah, for reasons listed above:
If you thought Ravenloft was on it's way to getting a setting book, you have not been paying as much attention as you claim to have been.
I've noticed that quite a few of the Ravenloft crowd have been in "see what I want to" mode for some time now, even with the repeated "it's now core rules" staring them in the face. Guess the diehard fans will be re-reading Twilight again.....lol
I've noticed that quite a few of the Ravenloft crowd have been in "see what I want to" mode for some time now, even with the repeated "it's now core rules" staring them in the face. Guess the diehard fans will be re-reading Twilight again.....lol
That's really insulting. Just because someone likes Ravenloft doesn't mean they have any interest in twilight. Have some respect for the tastes of your fellow posters.
That's really insulting. Just because someone likes Ravenloft doesn't mean they have any interest in twilight. Have some respect for the tastes of your fellow posters.
I'm sorry, but coming from you, thats beyond hilarious! I lol'd for real.
That's really insulting. Just because someone likes Ravenloft doesn't mean they have any interest in twilight. Have some respect for the tastes of your fellow posters.
I am sorry to offend, it was more directed at the ones I see at my FLGS who personally keep the local Hot Topic open and buy while make-up in 55 gallon drums. They are obsessed with Ravenloft and hate everything else D&D. I liked playing RL and have no problem with it, but a joke is a joke, take it for what it was intended to be.
Edit: or were you being sarcastic?
(Are you the same CyberDave from Hordelings?)
I'm sorry, but coming from you, thats beyond hilarious! I lol'd for real.
Excuse me? I don't think I've ever shown disrespect for other players. Even when I say I don't like a thing (such as Dragonlance) I have still stated that I hope they release it soon, because others obviously do. So, what are you getting at? The only time I show disrespect to anyone or their tastes is when they show disrespect to me, or the things I enjoy.
I am sorry to offend, it was more directed at the ones I see at my FLGS who personally keep the local Hot Topic open and buy while make-up in 55 gallon drums. They are obsessed with Ravenloft and hate everything else D&D. I liked playing RL and have no problem with it, but a joke is a joke, take it for what it was intended to be.
Fair enough. I just happen to like Ravenloft, and hate Twilight as much as the next person (who doesn't love it).
Are you the same CyberDave from Hordelings? You get my emails asking about my minis?
Sorry. I'm not the same guy.
Excuse me? I don't think I've ever shown disrespect for other players. Even when I say I don't like a thing (such as Dragonlance) I have still stated that I hope they release it soon, because others obviously do. So, what are you getting at? The only time I show disrespect to anyone or their tastes is when they show disrespect to me, or the things I enjoy.
I wasn't trying to get on your case or anything, but you have been pretty brutal to peoples ideas in the past. I'v only been back on the forums for a while now and its what I'v seen the most. Although, I will absolutely give you credit in that you are far nicer in your brutality than some of the other posters I'v seen.;) Again, its nothing to take to heart.
-And yes, I appreciate your show of support towards the release of DL for the fans. Thats never unnoticed.
I wasn't trying to get on your case or anything, but you have been pretty brutal to peoples ideas in the past. I'v only been back on the forums for a while now and its what I'v seen the most. Although, I will absolutely give you credit in that you are far nicer in your brutality than some of the other posters I'v seen.;) Again, its nothing to take to heart.
-And yes, I appreciate your show of support towards the release of DL for the fans. Thats never unnoticed.
Fair enough. I suppose I can be a little brutal sometimes.
Fair enough. I suppose I can be a little brutal sometimes.
Stop! My sides are hurting enough already!;)
I wouldn't mind seeing a support book for DL, just not a complete setting book. Unless someone can give me one thing that can't already be covered.
Back to the topic at hand? Is there really a topic in this thread anymore?
Stop! My sides are hurting enough already!;)
I'm not that bad, am I?
I'm not that bad, am I?
Na' I'm just giving you a hard time.:P
Back to the topic at hand? Is there really a topic in this thread anymore?
Whether or not Cyber-Dave is a big ole meanie. ;)
Twilight is horrible.
I think we're just about done here. Thanks for stopping by. Push the button, Frank.
I don't know that I agree with that. I think a goth-tinged high-fantasy Quantum Leap can be a very pleasurable game. Not to mention, playing Ravenloft as a setting was never really about helping the immortals, it was about figuring out a way to escape without turning into an immortal yourself. It was about the growing depravity and inhumanity one inevitably faced when surrounded by a world of depravity and inhumanity...
I knew I was courting trouble with that comparison
I would say the key to our differing outlooks lies in that last sentence from the quoted passage. Those themes are noble aspirations for a game, and something I hoped to create in my own campaign, but when there is nothing but ongoing depravity and inhumanity you lose sight of the value of the reward and risk caricaturing the subject matter. You need to set the norm before creating the deviation, and dealing with that deviation while maintaining your ethics requires the reward of seeing that the deviation is in fact transient. Not allowing your PCs to triumph over evil in some way when they succeed in defeating the challenge at hand creates hollow and meaningless victories when repeated over and over again, IMO. While I love the work of Franz Kafka, I don't think I would play in his campaign
If you want a campaign world where life is bleak, and nothing the PCs can do will change that to any degree, and regardless of their efforts the universe is still tilted to reward those who pick an evil path, that is your prerogative. I myself prefer the Shawshank Redemption method, where they crawl through the sewer because they know in their hearts that it can't go on forever. Damn, another pop culture comparison!
And I did not say the PCs goal was helping the immortals, but I did say the PCs needed to solve their emotional problems, and I stand by that statement. Just because you need to drive a stake through Strahds heart does not mean that you didn't have to understand his motivations, which are key to realizing his true nature, and thus perhaps wonder what your reaction to his situation may have been if it were you in his shoes. A sympathetic villain is a classic device in storytelling, and really integral to what makes gothic fiction in general and Ravenloft in particular great. "There but for the grace of go I," and all that.
Meh, playing 4E with Kafka is right out anyway. He's dead, and more importantly, he only runs Paranoia.
Lol, or does it run him?!?
That's really insulting. Just because someone likes Ravenloft doesn't mean they have any interest in twilight. Have some respect for the tastes of your fellow posters.
And on the converse side of things, there can be forumgoers who love twighlight, but haven't ever worked with Ravenloft.
...Oh, you're talking about the novel, not the time of day, aren't you? :P
Show
But seriously, I did like the Twighlight series.
Yah! quit your btching troll, get yourself the 3e gazeteers and start playing some 4e ravenloft.
/\ This
I knew I was courting trouble with that comparison
I would say the key to our differing outlooks lies in that last sentence from the quoted passage. Those themes are noble aspirations for a game, and something I hoped to create in my own campaign, but when there is nothing but ongoing depravity and inhumanity you lose sight of the value of the reward and risk caricaturing the subject matter. You need to set the norm before creating the deviation, and dealing with that deviation while maintaining your ethics requires the reward of seeing that the deviation is in fact transient. Not allowing your PCs to triumph over evil in some way when they succeed in defeating the challenge at hand creates hollow and meaningless victories when repeated over and over again, IMO. While I love the work of Franz Kafka, I don't think I would play in his campaign
If you want a campaign world where life is bleak, and nothing the PCs can do will change that to any degree, and regardless of their efforts the universe is still tilted to reward those who pick an evil path, that is your prerogative. I myself prefer the Shawshank Redemption method, where they crawl through the sewer because they know in their hearts that it can't go on forever. Damn, another pop culture comparison!
And I did not say the PCs goal was helping the immortals, but I did say the PCs needed to solve their emotional problems, and I stand by that statement. Just because you need to drive a stake through Strahds heart does not mean that you didn't have to understand his motivations, which are key to realizing his true nature, and thus perhaps wonder what your reaction to his situation may have been if it were you in his shoes. A sympathetic villain is a classic device in storytelling, and really integral to what makes gothic fiction in general and Ravenloft in particular great. "There but for the grace of go I," and all that.
Except that there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Ultimately, that light was escaping the Domains of Dread. It just took an entire campaign arc to accomplish, a couple of realms crossed through, and a few dread lords killed. There was also a moral norm. That moral norm was the innocents caught in the realm who had not yet been morally corrupted, as well as the expectation of a moral norm present in the players themselves. I'm sorry, I don't agree with you. I find Ravenloft, as a setting, very fun. There is no reason it has to be a one shot adventure. There is also no reason why it shouldn't be! I'm not trying to say that everyone should play Ravenloft as a full setting. But playing it as a setting is wicked fun (pun semi-intentional). I certainly hope they eventually do release it as a setting for 4e, one day, though I know I am not likely to see it (with it being folded into the core and all).
I have serious doubt that anything new could be introduced in Dragonlance that hasn't already been covered by core and forgotten realms.
Riding dragons as mounts? While carrying lances?
Riding dragons as mounts? While carrying lances?
We have draconians coming in Draconomicon II. We have mounts, including flying mounts, in AV. We have plenty of magical weapons. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see both dragon mounts, and dragonlances, in AV2. I'm not saying they are in there for sure, but it wouldn't even remotely surprise me, considering.
What kind of SWEEPING mechanisms, that cover a significant amount of untouched ground, would DL bring, however? Dark Sun brings extreme environmental hazards as a normal, everyday part of a campaign, very limited access to worldly resources, along with slavery, and magics that have profound, lasting, sweeping impact on the environment, for starters.
Meh, playing 4E with Kafka is right out anyway. He's dead, and more importantly, he only runs Paranoia.
"Your party awakes one morning in their respective families' apartments to find themselves inexplicably transformed overnight into gigantic pests. Apply the following template to your characters: ..."
Quote from the Metamorphosis adventure path.
For all the people that have decided to flame me on the post I started to state my opinion - I have every right as a gamer to post my thoughts and concerns. If you don't like what I have to say or disagree with it, that is your right.
I am not here to see how many people I can start an argument with. Personally I think worlds like Dark Sun are as I have said - an outdated concept that should have been long forgotten about.
As far as Ravenloft being "folded into the core" - if you mean by folded into the core as reduced to not even a skeleton of its former incarnations - then yes I will have to agree with you that it is indeed part of the core. But since the entire collection of RL data has been splintered into a few domains of dread, a pathetically short entry in the manual of the planes and a few monsters here and there - I would find it very difficult to use that to base a campaign off of.
What started as a single module, then blossomed into a beautiful gothic campaign setting has been reduced to a few smatterings of generic, barely connected raw data. Where are the maps? Where are the backstories to the darklords, where are the adventures that lead the parties through horrific encounters one after another?
At the rate that 4th edition is already going, I probably will not have to wait very long for a "revised 4.5 edition" to come out.
All that ravenloft love is probably on its way in the future. I know I'm looking forward to more info on the core stuff. They can't make ravenloft and planescape core and then not expand on the given info. Thats a D&D sin!
So just do what I do, pull out the 2e RL books and 2e PS books, blow the dust off them and get to homebrewing some 4e love. Like I said, cheer up man! Be positive!
So just do what I do, pull out the 2e RL books and 2e PS books, blow the dust off them and get to homebrewing some 4e love. Like I said, cheer up man! Be positive!
I get the feeling that might be too much work for the OP, otherwise his post would have read:
"Too bad it was Dark Sun, I'm a fan of Ravenloft, good thing I didn't hold my breath for it's own setting and made my own rules!"
Personally I think worlds like Dark Sun are as I have said - an outdated concept that should have been long forgotten about.
The fact that the Dark Sun boards get more traffic than the Ravenloft boards, and that Dark Sun has seen an overwhelming show of enthusiasm and support from the community both pre and post the new setting announcement, you are obviously wrong, whatever you happen to "personally" believe.
The fact that the Dark Sun boards get more traffic than the Ravenloft boards, and that Dark Sun has seen an overwhelming show of enthusiasm and support from the community both pre and post the new setting announcement, you are obviously wrong, whatever you happen to "personally" believe.
Yeah really. I've been amazed at the amount of posts I've seen on various boards in which 4E haters have declared Dark Sun is going to force them to finally switch to 4E. I have never seen such joy result from an announcement about DND.
I picked up FR just for the crunchy parts. I prefer Eberron to FR as far as my preferred "generic" fantasy. Dark Sun is my all time favorite canned setting.
Three times around to get my favorite. That's just how things work. The entire DS support since 4e started is one Dragon article. No niches in the Shadowfell. No monsters or big players appearing in other books. No semi-regular Dragon features. You may not like what you've gotten, but at least you've gotten something.
Yeah really. I've been amazed at the amount of posts I've seen on various boards in which 4E haters have declared Dark Sun is going to force them to finally switch to 4E. I have never seen such joy result from an announcement about DND.
I have a RL example of that.
A friend of mine and long term player in almost all of my campaigns just flat out refused 4E. No matter how much i begged, bribed or reasoned with him it just wasnt going to happen.
Then DS4E announcement with the "trying to stay as close to the 1st boxed set rules as possible" sold it.
He is now, like me, counting the minutes til DS4E lands.
From that viewpoint (and the fact that most players that have tried DS love it) that makes DS 4E a good, marketable product.
The entire DS support since 4e started is one Dragon article. No niches in the Shadowfell. No monsters or big players appearing in other books. No semi-regular Dragon features. You may not like what you've gotten, but at least you've gotten something.
I swear someone awhile back said that the Dungeon/Dragon issues with the 3.5 Dark Sun material were some of the best selling ever. Im not sure exactly where i heard this though.