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Darksun idea twist??

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
psionpc09
Jul 22, 2011 14:51:50 Ok going to be creating a game and I will be DMing. Now I like the idea of DS but what I was thinking of instead of athas being a vast desert apocalyptic setting, I wanna play it where it is snow instead of sand. Make it like they are playin In antartica. But I would still be using athas and all it's content just that it's snowlands.
Some ideas, no sunsickness but frostbite. No desert sand storms but snow storms and avalanches. Weapons break/shatter because of the cold not because of what they are made of. And there's more can't think right now.
Wanted to know what you all think of thus idea? Good bad any ideas on your own? Has anyone rolled a campaign like this?
#2
Valien
Jul 22, 2011 15:50:15 Should work, as long as you make sure that the temperatures are so extreme that finding food or drinkable (non-frozen) water is damn near impossible. One of Dark Sun's greatest themes is the lack of resources.

You also have to deal with Arcane Defiling. How does it interact with a frozen setting? Remember that, in Athas, the current state of things is a consequence of too much defiling - how is this connection going to work in your world? Perhaps Arcane Defiling steals the energy - in the form of heat - of things, so a lot of usage could have made the planet the way it is. If so, you should probably change it from necrotic to cold damage.

But, yeah, minor modifications aside, it should work beautifully.
#3
Donfang
Jul 22, 2011 15:52:27 I'd have to agree with Vallien it sounds like an interesting idea, with some tweaking to specific things of course.
#4
psionpc09
Jul 22, 2011 16:14:48 Those are great ideas that didn't even think to take into account. And as for defiling I like the idea of taking the heat rather then life or energy. Basically what I think it could be is latent heat, which is the amount of energy in the form of heat to create a phase change for unit of mass. So basically anything living all the heat is like you said taken from and therefore changed Into a solid, this case ice or to be frozen. And the dmg would of course be cold rather then necrotic. Which is pretty sweet.
Any other ideas or suggestions from others thy foul help me fish out this idea more?
#5
ian.thomson
Jul 24, 2011 2:06:47 One thing you're going to have to do: replace the reptiles with mammals.

Also, firepriests (if you're including the old 2e division of elemental priests) become a great deal nicer and respectable.
#6
vanadium322
Jul 25, 2011 1:08:14 The biggest problem here is that water can't be scarce in an ice world without a ton of changes to very fundamental concepts. Things like... you can't eat cooked meat, because if you can cook meat, you can cook ice, which makes... water! There'd have to be a total lack of heat sources, which affects things like light sources, tool-making, and basic survival. Not to mention any spell with the "fire" keyword.

I guess an alternative is that all this "ice" and "snow" is not actually made of water, but some other frozen chemical (not just poisoned water, cause you can distill that- something completely different), which is sort of odd, but could work.
#7
blackknight1239
Jul 25, 2011 16:01:49 I'd say this almost deserves it's own campaign setting, instead of just having Athas flip-turned upside-down.
#8
Pennarin
Jul 25, 2011 18:00:47
Yes, water can be scarce. Just make the alternate Athas an arctic desert. If there is little water to go on in the first place there will be little precipitations, i.e. snow fall. Rime would be everywhere, though, but harvesting rime is difficult.

A nice idea would be an alternate Athas created by a time travel event, which makes the world tip into a different state than hot desert. The PCs then need to fix that. Undead might be everywhere in this world, convincing the characters that a world under the iron rule of the Sorcerer-kings is better than this alternative.
#9
vanadium322
Jul 25, 2011 18:23:47
Yes, water can be scarce. Just make the alternate Athas an arctic desert. If there is little water to go on in the first place there will be little precipitations, i.e. snow fall. Rime would be everywhere, though, but harvesting rime is difficult.

Well obviously water can be scarce, just not in the scenario the OP posted (your idea goes out the window when he starts having snowstorms as a hazard). Yours is a completely different one, though it may work better for what he wants.

#10
Pennarin
Jul 26, 2011 11:29:18 Hence the "Just make the alternate Athas an". Yep, an alternative to his alternate Athas. More appropriate, and still dark sun as far as themes go.
#11
Mithrus
Jul 27, 2011 13:00:06 Keep in mind that the REAL scarce resource now will be fuel and wood instead of water and metal. Sure frozen water is in abundance, but what good is it if you can't melt it? Instead of water oasises, you have the occassional fumarole that provides heat and unlimited potable water.

Mining metals just got a whole new level of crazy (the required fuel needed for smelting would be VERY expensive), and trees would be rare and spindly.
#12
mach4
Jul 27, 2011 15:26:36 There is a reason we settled desert regions thousands of years ago but have never settled deep arctic regions. Even today, the arctics are considerably less hospitable. I would imagine you don't simply want a "Montanna in December all year long" and are looking more for Antarctica in the winter perpetually. As pointed out, food and fuel become the coin of the land. Mountains in such a globalized ice age would be impossible to traverse. Lifeforms become vastly generalized with single species filling multiple niches (fewer forms, higher populations).

The older edition supplement Frostburn has some useful information.
#13
ian.thomson
Jul 27, 2011 19:30:27 The Survival day mechanic already covers this stuff. Sunscreen and water is just replaced with fuel for fire to keep warm and melt snow.

Some classes have access to at-wills that start fires. Assumably this would evaporate the snow instead of just melting it (which... is easier to explain away than a druid in my group attempting to use a water-based combat power to try and get water for himself. Had to settle on "you can't drink silt, which is what you made.")
#14
RalofTyr
Aug 02, 2011 22:41:30 A desert wasteland is a paradise compared to a frozen-landscape.

There's almost no life in antarctica. It's be really hard to play a Dark Sun game there. Everything's frozen.

It would be better to play on a terra-formed Mars. At certain elevations, a whole continent is covered by ice due to the lack of atmosphere. Right now, Mars is a frozen desert with most of its water as permafrost.
#15
the_ubbergeek
Oct 14, 2011 20:50:27 Funny, i was watching a documentary on a certain planet close to us...

What if Athas was, or had a twin, very close... but instead of Hot, Cold, like Mars?

Cold, AND Dry. Pergelisol, dew....

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 psionpc09 Jul 22, 2011 14:51:50	Ok going to be creating a game and I will be DMing. Now I like the idea of DS but what I was thinking of instead of athas being a vast desert apocalyptic setting, I wanna play it where it is snow instead of sand. Make it like they are playin In antartica. But I would still be using athas and all it's content just that it's snowlands. Some ideas, no sunsickness but frostbite. No desert sand storms but snow storms and avalanches. Weapons break/shatter because of the cold not because of what they are made of. And there's more can't think right now. Wanted to know what you all think of thus idea? Good bad any ideas on your own? Has anyone rolled a campaign like this?
#2 Valien Jul 22, 2011 15:50:15	Should work, as long as you make sure that the temperatures are so extreme that finding food or drinkable (non-frozen) water is damn near impossible. One of Dark Sun's greatest themes is the lack of resources. You also have to deal with Arcane Defiling. How does it interact with a frozen setting? Remember that, in Athas, the current state of things is a consequence of too much defiling - how is this connection going to work in your world? Perhaps Arcane Defiling steals the energy - in the form of heat - of things, so a lot of usage could have made the planet the way it is. If so, you should probably change it from necrotic to cold damage. But, yeah, minor modifications aside, it should work beautifully.
#3 Donfang Jul 22, 2011 15:52:27	I'd have to agree with Vallien it sounds like an interesting idea, with some tweaking to specific things of course.
#4 psionpc09 Jul 22, 2011 16:14:48	Those are great ideas that didn't even think to take into account. And as for defiling I like the idea of taking the heat rather then life or energy. Basically what I think it could be is latent heat, which is the amount of energy in the form of heat to create a phase change for unit of mass. So basically anything living all the heat is like you said taken from and therefore changed Into a solid, this case ice or to be frozen. And the dmg would of course be cold rather then necrotic. Which is pretty sweet. Any other ideas or suggestions from others thy foul help me fish out this idea more?
#5 ian.thomson Jul 24, 2011 2:06:47	One thing you're going to have to do: replace the reptiles with mammals. Also, firepriests (if you're including the old 2e division of elemental priests) become a great deal nicer and respectable.
#6 vanadium322 Jul 25, 2011 1:08:14	The biggest problem here is that water can't be scarce in an ice world without a ton of changes to very fundamental concepts. Things like... you can't eat cooked meat, because if you can cook meat, you can cook ice, which makes... water! There'd have to be a total lack of heat sources, which affects things like light sources, tool-making, and basic survival. Not to mention any spell with the "fire" keyword. I guess an alternative is that all this "ice" and "snow" is not actually made of water, but some other frozen chemical (not just poisoned water, cause you can distill that- something completely different), which is sort of odd, but could work.
#7 blackknight1239 Jul 25, 2011 16:01:49	I'd say this almost deserves it's own campaign setting, instead of just having Athas flip-turned upside-down.
#8 Pennarin Jul 25, 2011 18:00:47	Yes, water can be scarce. Just make the alternate Athas an arctic desert. If there is little water to go on in the first place there will be little precipitations, i.e. snow fall. Rime would be everywhere, though, but harvesting rime is difficult. A nice idea would be an alternate Athas created by a time travel event, which makes the world tip into a different state than hot desert. The PCs then need to fix that. Undead might be everywhere in this world, convincing the characters that a world under the iron rule of the Sorcerer-kings is better than this alternative.
#9 vanadium322 Jul 25, 2011 18:23:47	Yes, water can be scarce. Just make the alternate Athas an arctic desert. If there is little water to go on in the first place there will be little precipitations, i.e. snow fall. Rime would be everywhere, though, but harvesting rime is difficult. Well obviously water can be scarce, just not in the scenario the OP posted (your idea goes out the window when he starts having snowstorms as a hazard). Yours is a completely different one, though it may work better for what he wants.
#10 Pennarin Jul 26, 2011 11:29:18	Hence the "Just make the alternate Athas an". Yep, an alternative to his alternate Athas. More appropriate, and still dark sun as far as themes go.
#11 Mithrus Jul 27, 2011 13:00:06	Keep in mind that the REAL scarce resource now will be fuel and wood instead of water and metal. Sure frozen water is in abundance, but what good is it if you can't melt it? Instead of water oasises, you have the occassional fumarole that provides heat and unlimited potable water. Mining metals just got a whole new level of crazy (the required fuel needed for smelting would be VERY expensive), and trees would be rare and spindly.
#12 mach4 Jul 27, 2011 15:26:36	There is a reason we settled desert regions thousands of years ago but have never settled deep arctic regions. Even today, the arctics are considerably less hospitable. I would imagine you don't simply want a "Montanna in December all year long" and are looking more for Antarctica in the winter perpetually. As pointed out, food and fuel become the coin of the land. Mountains in such a globalized ice age would be impossible to traverse. Lifeforms become vastly generalized with single species filling multiple niches (fewer forms, higher populations). The older edition supplement Frostburn has some useful information.
#13 ian.thomson Jul 27, 2011 19:30:27	The Survival day mechanic already covers this stuff. Sunscreen and water is just replaced with fuel for fire to keep warm and melt snow. Some classes have access to at-wills that start fires. Assumably this would evaporate the snow instead of just melting it (which... is easier to explain away than a druid in my group attempting to use a water-based combat power to try and get water for himself. Had to settle on "you can't drink silt, which is what you made.")
#14 RalofTyr Aug 02, 2011 22:41:30	A desert wasteland is a paradise compared to a frozen-landscape. There's almost no life in antarctica. It's be really hard to play a Dark Sun game there. Everything's frozen. It would be better to play on a terra-formed Mars. At certain elevations, a whole continent is covered by ice due to the lack of atmosphere. Right now, Mars is a frozen desert with most of its water as permafrost.
#15 the_ubbergeek Oct 14, 2011 20:50:27	Funny, i was watching a documentary on a certain planet close to us... What if Athas was, or had a twin, very close... but instead of Hot, Cold, like Mars? Cold, AND Dry. Pergelisol, dew....