Defiler and a Pesky Preserver in the Party - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Defiler and a Pesky Preserver in the Party

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
patories
Nov 18, 2010 12:03:35 Just started my game, and I have a pair of Arcane casters that have already enjoyed the benefits of defiling. I have another player coming in that is set on being in the Veiled Alliance Theme, because its the only one that is Arcane, that benefits his character.

Since the Veiled Alliance is so against Defiling I am unsure how to handle this. I have warned him plenty of times that his character my not like the outcome of staying with the party, but he has continued to not heed the warnings.

Yes I can say No your not playing it, but I like my players to have fun and try new things.

My thoughts are if he stays with the party any length of time and can not convince the Defilers to stop, then he will lose standing with the Alliance and they will hunt him down as a traitor..

Anything else I can do to make him understand that this campaign is not a goody good campaign, and preserve probably wont have a place in it?
#2
Bera
Nov 18, 2010 12:45:05 Assuming that your current PCs are team players and that the team is fine with defiling magic, the new guy needs to make a PC that fits the group. That said, his current character option could fit the group, but it sounds like his theme choice is purely mechanical (Arcane class needs an arcane theme?). Is there a story to go along with this to support the VA theme? Does the player intend to use theme mechanics a lot, or just take the first level?

Maybe the Alliance has sent him to spy on these defiliers (gain their trust, take down more defilers, etc). Maybe the defilers will hid their defiling from a new group member for a while. He could have recieved VA training and left, becoming a defiler himself. You could simply use the VA theme and re-skin it as a Rogue Defiler theme. Defilers who aren't beholden to the SKs are still hunted and could use some escape-type powers.
#3
DontEatRawHagis
Nov 18, 2010 13:56:49

My thoughts are if he stays with the party any length of time and can not convince the Defilers to stop, then he will lose standing with the Alliance and they will hunt him down as a traitor..

Anything else I can do to make him understand that this campaign is not a goody good campaign, and preserve probably wont have a place in it?

This is a world based on survival, you cannot have high beliefs like right and wrong when you could be dead any moment.

They are foils for each other. I sense good roleplaying. There might be tension between the two, see how it plays out before you decide if you should off one or the other.

If it doesn't work itself out put a Veiled Alliance/Defiler/Psionic curse on both of them that has them feel each other's pain and that they can't move too far from each other. Allow them to share healing between each other as well.
#4
fromost_the_grimm_02
Nov 18, 2010 18:29:14 I think you should not do anything about it at all.

It's a player's choice to play who and what they will; your job as DM is simply to give them a world to play in. A Preserver joining a party with two Defilers should cause friction, but that's completely on the shoulders of your players, and will -- and should -- resolve itself as it does, without any input from you. As others have said, it should lead to some juicy role-playing that will reinforce some character's beliefs, and challenge others.

#5
603
Nov 18, 2010 20:06:45 Part of me wants to let them just play off one another like a pair of comic characters. Dark Sun is such a serious setting, and having a preserver and defiler (although I would hasten to add that the preserver can't be a member of the veiled alliance for this to work properly) in the same party can generate a ton of comic energy. Its like having an SWSE game with a Jedi and a headhunter. The Jedi takes prisoners, and the headhunter takes heads.

The other part of me is saying, "Oh GAWD, the veiled alliance PC is going to kill the defiler until he really does die from it. One of the two needs to go." If that's the way it looks like things might be going, I'd suggest the PC lose their veiled alliance membership ("Sorry, but the thieves' guild didn't like seeing you in the pillory. Somebody blackballed you."), but find a way to keep the theme. That way they wouldn't be under NPC pressure to kill the defiler in their party.
#6
DontEatRawHagis
Nov 18, 2010 22:45:05 For the first part, story trumps rules and fun trumps story. Its all up to you, you can't change how players will interact unless they don't care about you interfering.
The other part of me is saying, "Oh GAWD, the veiled alliance PC is going to kill the defiler until he really does die from it. One of the two needs to go." If that's the way it looks like things might be going, I'd suggest the PC lose their veiled alliance membership ("Sorry, but the thieves' guild didn't like seeing you in the pillory. Somebody blackballed you."), but find a way to keep the theme. That way they wouldn't be under NPC pressure to kill the defiler in their party.

If he's just choosing Veiled Alliance for the abilities and not Roleplay, then I don't see the harm in asking if he wants to change his origin name to something else. It could be that he is part of a third faction of Arcana users that just wants to live life and not worry about protecting/destroying the world. Sort of like how in KOTOR you had the Grey Jedi, Jedi who did not follow the ways of the sith or the jedi.

#7
diggles
Nov 19, 2010 1:48:19 Defiling is not like the Force in Starwars where it is absolute light or dark. There are many many gray areas of defiling.

Although the Vieled Alliance holds the prinicpal that defiling is NEVER ok under any circumstances, I'm sure many members would do it to save their own lives, lives of loved ones or villages, etc. Sadira in the Prism Pentad is the best example of this...only after several adventures does she change her mind to be completely against defiling forever (kinda helps when you find a new super power source).

It would be rather interesting to RP this preserver RP story line. Does he tell the truth to his contacts in the Alliance that these people are defilers or does he try to hide and cover up for them. Maybe he starts to double agent the alliance and give them info on his defiler buddies to gain their favor.

#8
Bera
Nov 19, 2010 16:58:58 The situation reminds me of someone wanting to play the thief that steals the party's loot or otherwise betray the party. The situation is totally fine if everyone is prepared for that sort of game, but its likely to cause tension between players if they didn't sign up for that sort of thing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 patories Nov 18, 2010 12:03:35	Just started my game, and I have a pair of Arcane casters that have already enjoyed the benefits of defiling. I have another player coming in that is set on being in the Veiled Alliance Theme, because its the only one that is Arcane, that benefits his character. Since the Veiled Alliance is so against Defiling I am unsure how to handle this. I have warned him plenty of times that his character my not like the outcome of staying with the party, but he has continued to not heed the warnings. Yes I can say No your not playing it, but I like my players to have fun and try new things. My thoughts are if he stays with the party any length of time and can not convince the Defilers to stop, then he will lose standing with the Alliance and they will hunt him down as a traitor.. Anything else I can do to make him understand that this campaign is not a goody good campaign, and preserve probably wont have a place in it?
#2 Bera Nov 18, 2010 12:45:05	Assuming that your current PCs are team players and that the team is fine with defiling magic, the new guy needs to make a PC that fits the group. That said, his current character option could fit the group, but it sounds like his theme choice is purely mechanical (Arcane class needs an arcane theme?). Is there a story to go along with this to support the VA theme? Does the player intend to use theme mechanics a lot, or just take the first level? Maybe the Alliance has sent him to spy on these defiliers (gain their trust, take down more defilers, etc). Maybe the defilers will hid their defiling from a new group member for a while. He could have recieved VA training and left, becoming a defiler himself. You could simply use the VA theme and re-skin it as a Rogue Defiler theme. Defilers who aren't beholden to the SKs are still hunted and could use some escape-type powers.
#3 DontEatRawHagis Nov 18, 2010 13:56:49	My thoughts are if he stays with the party any length of time and can not convince the Defilers to stop, then he will lose standing with the Alliance and they will hunt him down as a traitor.. Anything else I can do to make him understand that this campaign is not a goody good campaign, and preserve probably wont have a place in it? This is a world based on survival, you cannot have high beliefs like right and wrong when you could be dead any moment. They are foils for each other. I sense good roleplaying. There might be tension between the two, see how it plays out before you decide if you should off one or the other. If it doesn't work itself out put a Veiled Alliance/Defiler/Psionic curse on both of them that has them feel each other's pain and that they can't move too far from each other. Allow them to share healing between each other as well.
#4 fromost_the_grimm_02 Nov 18, 2010 18:29:14	I think you should not do anything about it at all. It's a player's choice to play who and what they will; your job as DM is simply to give them a world to play in. A Preserver joining a party with two Defilers should cause friction, but that's completely on the shoulders of your players, and will -- and should -- resolve itself as it does, without any input from you. As others have said, it should lead to some juicy role-playing that will reinforce some character's beliefs, and challenge others.
#5 603 Nov 18, 2010 20:06:45	Part of me wants to let them just play off one another like a pair of comic characters. Dark Sun is such a serious setting, and having a preserver and defiler (although I would hasten to add that the preserver can't be a member of the veiled alliance for this to work properly) in the same party can generate a ton of comic energy. Its like having an SWSE game with a Jedi and a headhunter. The Jedi takes prisoners, and the headhunter takes heads. The other part of me is saying, "Oh GAWD, the veiled alliance PC is going to kill the defiler until he really does die from it. One of the two needs to go." If that's the way it looks like things might be going, I'd suggest the PC lose their veiled alliance membership ("Sorry, but the thieves' guild didn't like seeing you in the pillory. Somebody blackballed you."), but find a way to keep the theme. That way they wouldn't be under NPC pressure to kill the defiler in their party.
#6 DontEatRawHagis Nov 18, 2010 22:45:05	For the first part, story trumps rules and fun trumps story. Its all up to you, you can't change how players will interact unless they don't care about you interfering. The other part of me is saying, "Oh GAWD, the veiled alliance PC is going to kill the defiler until he really does die from it. One of the two needs to go." If that's the way it looks like things might be going, I'd suggest the PC lose their veiled alliance membership ("Sorry, but the thieves' guild didn't like seeing you in the pillory. Somebody blackballed you."), but find a way to keep the theme. That way they wouldn't be under NPC pressure to kill the defiler in their party. If he's just choosing Veiled Alliance for the abilities and not Roleplay, then I don't see the harm in asking if he wants to change his origin name to something else. It could be that he is part of a third faction of Arcana users that just wants to live life and not worry about protecting/destroying the world. Sort of like how in KOTOR you had the Grey Jedi, Jedi who did not follow the ways of the sith or the jedi.
#7 diggles Nov 19, 2010 1:48:19	Defiling is not like the Force in Starwars where it is absolute light or dark. There are many many gray areas of defiling. Although the Vieled Alliance holds the prinicpal that defiling is NEVER ok under any circumstances, I'm sure many members would do it to save their own lives, lives of loved ones or villages, etc. Sadira in the Prism Pentad is the best example of this...only after several adventures does she change her mind to be completely against defiling forever (kinda helps when you find a new super power source). It would be rather interesting to RP this preserver RP story line. Does he tell the truth to his contacts in the Alliance that these people are defilers or does he try to hide and cover up for them. Maybe he starts to double agent the alliance and give them info on his defiler buddies to gain their favor.
#8 Bera Nov 19, 2010 16:58:58	The situation reminds me of someone wanting to play the thief that steals the party's loot or otherwise betray the party. The situation is totally fine if everyone is prepared for that sort of game, but its likely to cause tension between players if they didn't sign up for that sort of thing.