I've got the strong feeling that defiling will simply not be allowed for PCs in 4E, which actually makes a lot more sense since it would make things a lot simplier rules wise.
What are your theories?
I don't have any theories, but I hope they don't remove it from 4E. That's one of the main selling points of the setting: the conflict between power and responsibility, between personal survival and the survival of the world. As well as the whole "addiction" angle to defiling. Defiling rules don't necessarily need to make things more mechanically complicated.
One possibility would be to have an augmented version of each spell that represents defiling magic. Just add it to the bottom of the spell like the psionic powers. (ex. Magic missile: 2d4+Intelligence. Defiler Augment: +1d4) Defiling could add extra damage or an extra effect (weaken, maybe?) to any spell. The penalty for defiling could either be entirely left to roleplaying or they could do something similar to Star Wars with the Dark Side slider. Defile too much and your PC becomes an NPC.
I don't think either of those would work real well from 4es design philosophy. The problem with just RP is that you are making a version of the spell that is flat out better. How would that fit when taken to a different setting where defiling makes little sense?
I think if they include it for pcs, they should make it a seperate class or maybe a multiclass feat like spellscars.
It just wouldn't be Dark Sun without defiling. Whatever form it does take in 4e, I hope that its simple to use and can be done by any arcane class.
I agree that defiling should affect ALL arcane classes. As such, whatever mechanic they choose should be able to be applied to ALL existing spells. Bear with me...
A defiler is not simply a class, rather it is a philisophical choice of how to gain power. Preservers draw just enough power to achieve their spells and try to draw it from a wider range over a longer period of time. Defilers draw as much power as they can as quickly as they can to power their spells. Translate this to 4e...
Preservers of any class use spells as written for their class. Defilers get some form of "bump" to their spells. This makes defilers more powerful than preservers. However, drawing again from how the psion will work in PH3, give characters a set number of "points" per encounter. These "points" represent the available living matter that spells can draw energy from.
This would allows defilers to defile, up to a point. Preservers could choose to defile in extreme situations if they wanted or needed to do so. Yes, defilers are still more powerful than preservers....but that's how they were in the original setting as well.
As far as taking defilers out of Athas...well, they would just be average members of their chosen class. In other worlds arcane magic doesn't suck energy from living matter. That is an Athasian specific effect. It is not an inherent ability of a defiler, but a law of magic native to Athas.
An Interesting topic.
Defilers in 2e benefited from faster level advancement than Preservers. Exp requirements were lower, thus the 'average' defiler seemed to progress faster than the 'average' preserver. While i dont think we will see that in 4e defilers, I think there will have to be something mechanical to differentiate Defilers from Preservers, as I see Preservers being the default for characters in Darksun.
You have some mechanics you could play with in Darksun. While only very high level defilers in 2e could take life force from animals/people, they normally ended up taking life force from the plantlife. In 4e, you could look at impinging on peoples abilities to use Healing surges while around a Defiler. Healing surges might only heal half their normal amount around a Defiler. At this point I should point out that Defiling magic dosnt really 'defile' the person using it. Yeah sure , Defilers are normally egomaniacs and nasty types, but the magic they cast dosnt really hurt them to cast, it hurts the environment around. So I wouldnt see their own healing surges suffer, its the things around them that should. As Healing surges are a way to simulate health and vitality, it might be possile to use them as a penality.
Of course if one wanted to , rules could penalise the Defiler by affecting stats , lowering their own healing surges etc. i dont see this happening, because if WOTC want to make Defilers available, they need to make them on par with the power level of the setting. There is no point making a class that is just going to sit there, and played by a handful of people because its mechanically inferior to say the Preserver.
I think by the similar reasons as above, you cannot make the Defiler fundementally more powerful, otherwise you run the risk of making the preserver not as playable. As 4e is dedicated towards Heroics, obviously you can end this debate by making the Defiler class Evil only. Which there stops the argument.
Personally I think radically there may not be any difference at all between the Preserver/ Defiler. any wizard will be able to tap the environment if they wish to power spells. It will be a choice of the moment, when the Wizard casts a spell. There will be mechanical benefit for casting a Defiled spell, but there will also be a penalty to the rest of the allies ( penalties to fort defense? Healing surge limits/penalties?) Preservers are of course those that dont tap the environment, Defilers are the ones that dont care.
And Defilers are of course the ones that Irk villagers, the ones that SKings want dead (because of the possibility of competition) and the ones which will find having allies to help them when they need it unlikely.
Penalizing the rest of your party could work quite well actually. A similar effect is that of the warlock dark pact. You can enhance some of your spells at the expense of your party. An arcane caster on Athas doesn't have to defile and hurt his companions, but he can choose to do so if he wants to add some ooomph to his spell.
The article in Dragon 378 states defiling will be part of the game, and that wizards either practice their art in secret or openly work for the sorcerer-kings. It seems pretty clear, IMo, that defiling will be present, and most likely available for PC use. Else, there's no option between working for an SK and practicing in secret. SKs do NOT hire preservers, ever, IIRC. Since there is no seperate NPC wizard class, it seems to me that Defiling has no choice but to be available to PCs.
The closest thing to an evil role for players we've seen so far, the Assassin, was a DDI release. This might be a way to give the players what they want while still keeping with the cuddly feeling of 4e
I can see defilers are a pseudo class that you can only multiclass into.
That why it can be open to all arcane casters and have a unified mechanic without huge additions to each class.
Another possibility is an alternate way to fuel rituals.
In 4e, you could look at impinging on peoples abilities to use Healing surges while around a Defiler. Healing surges might only heal half their normal amount around a Defiler.
I can't wait until next year, so what I'll probably do is have an arcane feat that gives you the option of giving your spells the Defiler Keyword. They will gain a boost to damage, but the caster will gain a Defiler Aura - within this aura healing surges are halved, but people don't understand it unless they have knowledge of Arcana. Druids and Preservers have a ritual that allows them to sense and pinpoint defiler auras, and can target those characters accordingly. - And plants will die, but that might not matter in game terms.
That plants will die, and that it might not matter in game terms, is true...yet there may be clever uses of Skill Challenges directly in the DS Player's Handbook for spotting defiling.
If you can allow a mob of low-level citizens to succeed at such a Skill Challenge...then the developpers will have done their job well of converting the setting to 4e.
It will probably have most meaning for rituals. Shorter completion time and more power for the defilers. The combat mechanics shouldn't be that different between defilers and preservers.
I kinda like the idea of defiling affecting healing surges. However, they only suck life as they are drawing power for a spell, not all the time. Maybe each time the caster uses defiling magic they could reduce the healing surges of nearby creatures by 1 in a burst 3 or burst 5. These healing surges could be regained after a short rest since their bodies would replenish the life energy over time. Just a thought.
I've been tossing around ideas for a hybrid Preserver/Defiler feat, something like; Athasian Casting as an Arcane class feat with the following guidelines;
- Preservers act as baseline, but may slowly gain healing surges/will bonuses over time as they resist the temptation to defile. This would be lost if they choose to use the defiling side of the feat.
- Any caster with the feat may choose to defile, which might give power bonuses (hit/dmg) and/or the ability to re-cast more powerful spells.
- Some mechanic to encourage "addiction" to defiling, like a pyramid scheme of allowing re-casts or at-will/encounter/daily trade-ins that scale up at different tiers to affecting party healing surges, will or fort defenses, as well as increasingly visible effects.
I have a loose vision of a pyramid scheme; a defiler casting in line with a preserver won't be very different (other than *not* getting the will/surge bonuses); the more he drains is baseline ability to cast spells, the more he's encouraged to draw even more power (and cause more obvious and detrimental effects).
Further to what was stated above, you cannot HIDE defiling magic. It destroys the environment around the caster ie things get turned into a thin grey dust where nothing will grow. Its not a skill challenge to notice this, while standard defilnig magic does not impinge on people or animals, they still notice it.. the aura of such magic actually hurts people (ill find the page reference when I get home, but I believe in 2e this was a penalty to particular roles). The truth of the matter is that Arcane magic has a bad rep in Athas because of Defilers. villagers think any arcane user is a defiler till they learn better. As its the fastest route to power (in a 2e sense) and dosnt require the balancing abilities of a preserver, this was a correct viewpoint (as Im sure the number of defilers outweight the number of Preservers).
If your fields are destroyed by a Defiler, you DO NOT need a skill challenge to notice this (it pains me that people think you always have to resort to a skill check to notice anything). As the amount of arable land in Athas is extremely limited, someone defiling a villages only supply of vegetables will be noticed.
I'm somewhat confused about the references to defiling affecting healing surges. Defiling draws on PLANT life, unless you're an SK. A regular defiler has never been able to draw any energy from a living creature, in any edition, unless that defiler was a Sorcerer-King ascending towards dragonhood, or a Champion of Rajaat(Which all SKs except possibly Kalak were). That concept is a fundemental of the setting. I'm 100% certain WOTC won't screw that up. They said in Dragon 378 that they are trying to keepit as close to the original Boxed Set as possible, and that includes fluff and flavor,such as the nature of Defiling.
It seems like a lot of people on the forums didn't read the article. In short,the official word is basically this - read the original Boxed set, and keep in mind that the Prism Pentad is one possible outcome. The article stated that if you read he Dark Sun Prism Pentad novels, you'll immediately recognize the 4e DS setting from the inside. This means Defiling draws from plant life, Athas has adjacent dimensions known as the Black and the Grey,the Outer Planes are almost impossible to reach(I imagine in 4e DS, the Astral Sea will replace the role of the Outer Planes, just like in mainstream 4e. The exact nature of the Inner Planes connected to Athas was not explained in-depth in either the Original Boxed Set or the Prism Pentad, so WOTC has more wiggle room there to include new stuff like the Primordials. The Feywild could be included, since there's nothing in either referenced material that directly states it does not exist near Athas.
Basically, if the Prism Pentad says a thing or location or person exists on Athas, it will 99% likely be in 4e DS. The PP did an excellent job of fleshing out Athas,with a wide range of things discussed in detal. And if I interpret Dragon Mag 378 correctly, the PP will remain canonical. Reference any questions having to do with planar cosmology or magic against the PP, and that's probably how it will be in 4e, except for recent events (calendar reset to same era as OBS).
And if I interpret Dragon Mag 378 correctly, the PP will remain canonical.
How can something be canon, if it is only a possible outcome?
I'll come back later with quotes and references, but I went back last night and read about defilers from the original DS boxed set.
Defilers were not more powerful than preservers other than the fact that they progressed much faster. Since all classes now progress the same I doubt this will recur in 4e DS.
Defiling magic only destroys plant life (this included up to level 20 characters and all spells from levels 1 - 9). However, it also stated that defiling magic HARMS animals and people within the radius being defiled. 2e expressed this by an initiative penalty. 4e could impose this same penalty but it also has a mechanic that can better relate this harm - healing surges. Maybe the characters lose a surge. Maybe healing surges don't work until the end of the defilers next turn, There are many ways this could be imposed.
Having just re-read the third book in the Prism Pentad, The Amber Enchantress, which focuses on Sadira, I would be disapointed if defiling magic wasn't a pc option. Furthermore, I would be disappointed if it weren't an option on a per spell basis.
In the Amber Enchantress, Sadira, a member of the Veiled Alliance, breaks the rules on a per spell basis based on her needs at the time. I like the moral dilemma of this. If Arcane PCs can choose to augment their spells by choosing to defile, a choice that may have reprocussions for both inter party and extra party conflict, that is great.
To go back to the book as an example, there is a fight where a member of the Veiled Alliance is helping Sadira and she choses to defile to help beat a tough opponent. The aid goes from helping her to trying to kill her and he himself gets kicked out of the Alliance for aiding a defilier. When she explains to the aid why she did it and asked what her alternative was, he say something along the lines of, 'You could have died with honor.'
In a world as harsh as Athas where small decisions mean the difference between life and death, the choice of defiling should be available to a PC and it should be a per-spell dynamic, IMHO.
Here are a few things the Rules Book from the original Dark Sun box set said about defilers, preservers, and magic in general.
"A wizard is able to capture and master magical energies. However, on Athas, magic and the ecosystem are irrevocably bound - no one, not even a wizard, can affect one without affecting the other." p. 19
So on Athas all arcane magic affects the environment. There were three groups of wizards in this setting: defiler, preserver, and illusionist. The illusionist must choose to be either a preserver or defiler upon character creation. I think most, if not all, arcane classes should be available on Athas. The whole defiler/preserver bent is more a philosophical debate on how to achieve power than an actual class of arcane caster.
"All wizards must decide at the beginning of their careers whether they are trying to work with nature or without regard for it. In Dark Sun, this means a wizard must be either a defiler or a preserver." p. 19-20
If WotC sticks to this statement, then an arcane character must be one or the other. There could be no dabbling in defiling magic. However, Sadira, in the Prism Pentad novels, did choose to defile in certain situations. So I think it would be good to have the option of defiling if you want. This could set up great roleplaying scenarios and change the course of certain events within a campaign. Sadira's contact in the Veiled Alliance went from aiding her to trying to kill her once she defiled.
"...a defiler advances through levels very quickly..." a preserver's "...progress as a wizard is very slow." p. 26
There is no corresponding mechanic in place in 4e since all characters progress at the same rate. If WotC wants to continue to give the defilers an "edge" they will need to come up with a way to do so. Some possibilities would be: give defilers a set/scalable bonus to damage, let defilers cast certain spells as minor actions (at least once per encounter), give defilers some kind of condition (weaken, daze, etc) that could be applied to certain/all spells, etc.
"Even the sorcerer-kings, however, are not the most dread users of defiler magic: the great dragon's defiler magic is so powerful that it destroys living animals as well. All magic cast by defilers up to 20th level, including all 1st through 9th level spells, destroys plant life only. Any creatures in the area, however, suffer great pain." p.59
Only plant life is destroyed by defiling except in the case of what I assume will be at least upper-epic level spells. However, this could be made a dragon-specific ability and the dragon could be higher than level 30.
"Any being in the radius of a defiler's magic suffers an immediate initiative modifier penalty equal to the level of the difiler spell cast. No matter how high the resulting initiate roll, though, the pain can never keep a character from performing an action during a round." p.61
WotC might keep this in place, but I think they have a better mechanic available to show the result of the pain of being caught in a defiler's radius. Healing Surges could be lost or unable to be spent for a duration after a defiler casts a spell. The radius could be a burst 3 for heroic tier, burst 5 or 8 for paragon, and burst 10 or 15 for epic.
This is all conjecture on my part of course, but that's my two cents worth. Any other ideas?
One doesn't need to stick the the First Boxed Set's guns exclusively, mind you.
Other, later documents have comfirmed that dragons indeed defile animals as well, or perhaps animals exclusively, it never was too well explained.
What 3e set out to create were rules on dragons, stating "dragon magic" was a class or template ability you could apply while casting a defiling spell, and it modified it in specific ways, while resulting in defiling animals instead of or as well as plants.
I like the idea of deciding per spell to Defile or not. That said, another solution would be to make both Preserving and Defiling a feat that would have its own benefit. Each Arcane class would choose one or the other at first level, but could select the opposite feat later if desired. I don't know what kind of bonus the Preserver feat would give, but it would certainly be appropriate for the Defiler feat to give a bump to spells at the cost of HP or healing surges of your friends.
Yes, I know that in the original it only outright damaged plant life and animals/sentients were merely uncomfortable; 4E has a better mechanic for this, and in this context I think it would be perfectly fine to deviate from the original. We have the precident in the Dark Pack Warlock powers, no problem to continue that idea. The special multiclass only class is also a good idea, but I like the feat choice at first level.
i think Defiling will be an Athasian Arcane Feature, free of charge at first level. Maybe later, it will have Defiling Feats to specialize with it.
Feats similar to metamagic. Range, Wide, More damage, bonus to rituals or attacks.
I really like sucking healing surge from PC party, can be good 
Like you get 1 defiling charge for killing the land and 1 charge for each healing surge lost by PC.
An Epic Feat can turn that to real damage as healing surge value for more oomph.
I like the concept of healing surges being sapped, not as a "life drain" effect, but parallel to the aforementioned initiative penalty - unease, a slight queasy feeling, and perhaps even mental fatigue stemming from seeing defiling happening.
As surges seem to represent the raw will and ability to keep going it makes sense, to me, that being in the vicinity of defiling (at least, stronger or more powerful defiling) could undermine that.
Plus, it has a clear, mechanical, negative social impact to reflect negative RP elements.
I get that magic-users need to absorb "something" from plants, animals, anything living - and thus I'm assuming this "something" is a life force. A defiler will absorb this life energy without consequence, while a preserver will leave enough life force for the object to keep on living. Ok.
But is the absorption effect itself a magical power or psionic power? Why can't anybody absorb magic? In the PP, I remember Abalach-Re used this absorption to attack Sadira (awesome!), but it seems that this was very psionic attack-like.
I'm trying to understand how this might get translated to 4e. Should the absorb be an attack in itself? Like an at-will psionic devotion that augments your next arcane attack? How would one defend against this? Would plants be able to fight back and provide some sort backfire against the mage?
Or has this question always been swept under the rug?
The closest thing to an evil role for players we've seen so far, the Assassin, was a DDI release. This might be a way to give the players what they want while still keeping with the cuddly feeling of 4e
Are you telling me (since I havent played 4th ed yet) that PCs are seen as strickly good in 4e???
Are you telling me (since I havent played 4th ed yet) that PCs are seen as strickly good in 4e???
There are no special rules for cartoon evil, if that's what you want to know. There are no special rules for goody-two shoes, either. The DMG does note, however, that characters who are heroic or at least not openly backstabbity towards each other tend to make for a more stable and enjoyable play experience for the vast majority of roleplayers.
People may have misconstrued my earlier statement Re Healing surges. I was looking at defiling magic from a 4e viewpoint. As Mechanically destroying the plant life around the caster dosnt actually do a great deal (except in the rp sense), I was seeing Healing surges as a great way to measure the vitality of creatures. Defiling magic saps the vitality of the environment, so I thought Itnterms of game mechanics healing surges (Penalising other characters hitpoint scores or actual physical stats goes beyond inconviencing party members and enters the lands of 'Im not adventuring with a Defiler)
THe way I was thinking was the more powerful the defilerthe more they affect party members. Im not sure It would work that great. Apply a Level halved modifer to allies healing surge values. This means the effect hurts more the more powerful the defiler gets , whether he uses a lower level 'spell'or higher one. Im not viewing preservers or defilers as a seperate class in any respect, so the 'burn' can be on every spell cast or perhaps one every so often (totally dependant on the caster). Another option would to possibly apply the penality only to the very next healing surge spent in the encounter. THus this option is a bit weaker, only affects a single person, and isnt that game hurting (except of course to the person in question taking the hit)
Another way might be to apply the Casters int modifier (not the scalable one) to allies healing surge values. This number is only likely to change when the caster puts points into the stat but on the whole would be a fairly stationary value. Again its reflecting that the more powerful the defiler, the more hurt they inflict when casting.
Ive always viewing Defiling as detrimental to the environment. Animals /People are part of that environment. Mechanically they should be affected by that defiling magic.
On Athas, ALL arcane magic draws on life energy. (In FR it used to be the Weave, not sure about 4e FR) Arcane magic is about learning ways to harness magical energy and make it do what you want. Wizards do this through study. Sorcerors do it subconsciously. Warlocks are granted secrets from their patrons. etc. etc. What makes Athas distinct is that arcane magic is fueled by life. Plants are totally destroyed if too much power is drawn from them (aka defiling). Animals and people are harmed by defiling as well, but are heartier and better able to bounce back after being drained. Only the most powerful of defilers (aka the dragon) can suck a living creature dry. Preservers also draw energy from plants (and creatures) but do so over a broader area and take only what is needed to cast the spell. Thus they do not damage the environment or nearby creatures.
Here's my opinion of 4e defilers so far. (It keeps evolving because of some interesting ideas being posted.)
Defilers can be of any arcane class. When a defiler casts a spell they defile the environment around them. Heroic tier: defiler radius - burst 3. Paragon tier: defiler radius - burst 5. Epic tier: defiler radius - burst 10. (The larger radius represents more powerful spells needing more energy.)
Creatures caught in a defilers radius should not be able to spend healing surges until the end of the defilers next turn. Actually scratch that. Say rather, that a defilers radius creates a zone that lasts untilt the end of the defiler's next turn and healing surges cannot be spent inside that zone. I thought about losing healing surges, but that actually takes away a demonstrable amount of potential life energy from the character.
In 2e defilers did the same damage, effect, radius, etc. with their spells as a preserver casting the same spell at the same level. Defilers leveled up faster than preservers however, so this gave them an edge. In 4e I think defilers should add their prime requisite ability score to any damage dealt by their spells. This should scale up through paragon and epic. Right now I'm not too sure of any other good way to represent the advantage that defilers have over preservers. Any other suggestions are welcome.
just one question with the healing surge idea, which seems like a good mechanical option in itself, but why conceptually only allies, I don't remember there being any willful participant thing with this and if so, wouldn't that suite ritual casting better?
I agree that everything should be affected by the defiler radius. Allies, enemies, innocent bystanders - they should all feel the sting of defiling magic.
The healing surge mechanic works for PCs. Whether they have a defiler in their party or are facing one, if they get caught in the radius then they should be affected.
For monsters, I'm not sure exactly how to penalize them. You could stop regeneration until the end of the defiler's next turn. You could do the same with any other monster that has a way to regain hit points also. Not all monsters have a mechanic for regaining hit points though. I don't think they should lose hit points though because that doesn't fit the original concept of defiling. (however it could be modified for 4e)
Rather than use a healing surge penalty for PCs and something else for monsters, you could assign a negative temporary hit point penalty to ALL creatures (PC & monster) caught within the defiler radius. Maybe something like 2+prime requisite ability score negative temporary hit points for heroic tier and scale it up to 4+pr for paragon and 6+pr for epic. These negative temporary hit points last until the end of the defiler's next turn. This might be a little unwieldy, but it would affect all creatures across the board. The trick comes when a creature would drop to 0 or fewer hit points because of the negative temorary hit points. You could either say "oh well, sucks to be you" and have them be unconscious or allow them to regain consciousness if they have any actual hit points left after the end of the duration of the penalty.
What do you think? It's fair and doesn't actually take life away from a living creature, but is it practical? Does it "feel" like what would happen if you were caught in a defiler's radius?
Yeah, Monsters should suffer a penalty too, and not all have the ability to recover hitpoints in battle - another idea I was toying with would be applying a blanket penalty to all creatures in a radius to keep it as simple as possible. In 4E - there are status effects that can apply to any creature. All creatures could be SLOWED until the end of their next turn when someone defiles near them. Everyone would feel that in meaningful game terms. Another possibility would be something which gives vulnerability to damage. A creature caught in a defiling radius could suffer vulnerable/5 to all damage - and that could scale with the tier = vulnerable/5 at heroic; vulnerable/10 at paragon; vulnerable/15 at Epic. That would be a meaningful violation for allies, monsters, and innocent bystanders alike, with consequences even if a monster can't regain hitpoints in combat.
Imposing a condition upon all creatures caught within a defiler radius may be the best way to go. I'm not sure which condition fits best though.
Slowed: Not a major impediment to the character (although in certain cases it could be) but demonstrates that something has affected the character.
Weakened: Demonstrates that energy has been sucked out of the character leaving them weak momentarily. However, being reduced to only doing half damage might be too hefty a penalty.
Dazed: Again this demonstrates that the character has been affected. I think this would be way too strong a condition to impose though. Being reduced to one action is usually a big deal and it kinda goes against the original explanation of the effect of being caught within a defiler radius.
Imposing an initiative penalty (as in the original rules) would work. As a DM, however, that would be a pain constantly having to adjust the initiative order. Of course that's just my personal opinion.
One issue with an AOE effect surrounding the defiler is how would that actually play out on the battlefield with a ranged attacker or a controller who isn't actually in the fray. You might end up hurting your party more than the enemy.
I vaguely remember an ability to move the area effected, now that could possibly yield some broken controller ability IMO.
Regardless of that, I do think whatever stat it might effect, if it effects everyone this could have some serious controlling abilities, take a touch melee warlock with "fey pact" or whatever that would be rendered as in DS and imagine him or her hopping around the battlefield popping enemies with defiler effects...
That's kinda the point though isn't it? Defiling screws things up. Allies and enemies alike. Most defilers are loners. Who'd want to run around with a guy who constantly sucked out your energy? Those employed by Sorceror Kings are probably surrounded by disposable lackeys so who cares if they get hurt?
The mechanic should be designed to emphasize the fact that magic has wrecked Athas. Responsible wielders of magic (preservers) take what they need without causing more harm. Ambitious wielders of magic (defilers) take what they want without regard for anyone or anything else.
Two things to consider: Athasian lore says Rajaat, the First Sorcerer (an old 2e fluff term, i.e. spellcaster), invented arcane magic, so some of the fluff of the arcane classes ought, I guess, to be redone for DS, as therer should be no inate arcane knowledge. Of course, if they can come up with a realistic and respectuous way of allowing it, why not.
Second: Some monsters were...battle-scarred, one might say, right out of the First Boxed Set, and had spell-like abilities that defiled. Dark Spiders, a type of monster, also have wizards among them so there needs to be a defiling effect made available for monster stat blocks, not just for PCs.
Well, I guess everyone has their own opinion on how this particualr thing will be on 4E. I just hope they give us a taste before the whole thing is set on stone. The DDi is a wonderful place for that.
Let us see how defiling will work, I'm anxious to get a glimpse of 4E DS.
Sorcerors don't so much have innate arcane magical knowledge as they have innate arcane magical ability. They can do incredible things instictively. With all the magical energy that was used during the cleansing wars, sorceror abilities could have developed as a side-effect. Another alternative could be that sorceror abilities could have been present in some humanoids that were affected or created by the Prisitine Tower and bred true in their descendants.
Whatever mechanic WotC chooses to use to represent defiling for PCs should definitely also be applied (either exactly or very similiarly) to monsters as well. I don't think that should be too difficult. The hardest part is probably deciding exactly what best represents the effects of defiling in 4e mechanics.
In the Amber Enchantress, Sadira, a member of the Veiled Alliance, breaks the rules on a per spell basis based on her needs at the time. I like the moral dilemma of this. If Arcane PCs can choose to augment their spells by choosing to defile, a choice that may have reprocussions for both inter party and extra party conflict, that is great.
....
In a world as harsh as Athas where small decisions mean the difference between life and death, the choice of defiling should be available to a PC and it should be a per-spell dynamic, IMHO.
Indeed. This is one of those things that I fought very, very hard for throughout the course of DS3. Defiling has to be a constant temptation for any arcane caster ... one of the central delemmas of the setting should not be a one-time decision at character creation.