Defilers = Sorcerers, Preservers = Wizards? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Defilers = Sorcerers, Preservers = Wizards?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Tyranthraxus
Feb 02, 2009 21:25:16 How about if Defilers were Sorcerers in 4e and Preservers were Wizards?

I see Defiling magic as more the sharp point of the sword, their magic always seemed to me to be the flashy direct and damaging type. I think they would be strikers.

Preservers to me always seemed more reserved in nature. Perhaps because they couldnt show the same flashy style as Defilers. Their method of controlling magic would be appropriate.

I think in terms of feats is where we will see other differences. Perhaps a feat might let Defilers drain hp from allies to boost damage. Im sure what Id do with Preservers feat wise, but in a Darksun game you dont want to be shown to be a preserver so they may that feats that better mask their magic capability.

Any thoughts?
#2
Barbarossa_Rotbart
Feb 03, 2009 2:37:33 Bad idea, because Defilers and Preservers are nearly the same. Every defiler could draw the energy for his spells without defiling the area that surrounds him (if he would try) and every Preserver could defile the area that surrounds him by drawing the energy for his spells to quickly.
That's just the way of magic under the Dark Sun.
So seperating the defiler from the preserver by making each different classes or the defiler a set of special feats would not fit the setting.
#3
Pennarin
Feb 03, 2009 7:35:17 The choice offered every practicionner of the arcane, on Athas (according to the setting material and novels), can only be a choice if a normal wizard can turn into a defiler, temporarily or permanently.

Deciding at level 1 you are a defiler and choosing sorcerer or warlock (instead of preservers' wizard) is thus a bad idea. What happens when you are redeemed into a preserver?
#4
Sysane
Feb 03, 2009 8:04:11 Dragonlance does something very similar in this regard. When that world lost access to Magic (When Takisis stole the world) magic was rediscovered in the form of sorcery. When the world was returned so did the art of High Magic. There's rules for sorcerers converting their class levels to levels of wizard and visa versa.

I'm not saying this is a good idea for DS but the option is out there for DMs to go that route.
#5
yashugan00
Feb 03, 2009 9:54:40 As a mechanic, I'd much rather see the distiction between defiling and preserving much less obvious than making them separate classes.
but to go along with you:
Defiling =? Warlock
Preserver =? .. aren't they like druids? why not?

What about a Paragon Path for Defiling/Preserving whose sole requirement is the Arcane Power source (as opposed to a particular class)
With a 21st level Epic Destinee towards Avangion/Dragon

SO: Defiling is simply another way to draw off from the Arcane Power source (hey wizards, sorcerers,Warlocks all 'do it' differently too).
Any Arcane user can achieve it if the right condition are met. Perhaps you need a small obsidian orb implement to channel through (I believe the 2nd edition DS boxed set mentions each Champion having received one from Rajaat)
So perhaps this requiring Implement mastery: Orbs

Or perhaps something as simple as requiring a Feat similar to the 3.5 metamagic feats to 'enhance' a given power.

Balance wise: if one were to allow players to use defiling magics they would be overpowered
The problem is: by all accounts defiling SHOULD be overpowered, just look at the original campaign setting.

Perphaps there is a way to make it feel over the top powerful while still being rule-balanced. The drawbacks should be significant to the player (as well as the environment) to make it on par with the other classes. (Endurance checks?)

So options so far: Classes, Paragon Paths, Feats,
requirements: (obsidian) orb mastery

What do you think?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Tyranthraxus Feb 02, 2009 21:25:16	How about if Defilers were Sorcerers in 4e and Preservers were Wizards? I see Defiling magic as more the sharp point of the sword, their magic always seemed to me to be the flashy direct and damaging type. I think they would be strikers. Preservers to me always seemed more reserved in nature. Perhaps because they couldnt show the same flashy style as Defilers. Their method of controlling magic would be appropriate. I think in terms of feats is where we will see other differences. Perhaps a feat might let Defilers drain hp from allies to boost damage. Im sure what Id do with Preservers feat wise, but in a Darksun game you dont want to be shown to be a preserver so they may that feats that better mask their magic capability. Any thoughts?
#2 Barbarossa_Rotbart Feb 03, 2009 2:37:33	Bad idea, because Defilers and Preservers are nearly the same. Every defiler could draw the energy for his spells without defiling the area that surrounds him (if he would try) and every Preserver could defile the area that surrounds him by drawing the energy for his spells to quickly. That's just the way of magic under the Dark Sun. So seperating the defiler from the preserver by making each different classes or the defiler a set of special feats would not fit the setting.
#3 Pennarin Feb 03, 2009 7:35:17	The choice offered every practicionner of the arcane, on Athas (according to the setting material and novels), can only be a choice if a normal wizard can turn into a defiler, temporarily or permanently. Deciding at level 1 you are a defiler and choosing sorcerer or warlock (instead of preservers' wizard) is thus a bad idea. What happens when you are redeemed into a preserver?
#4 Sysane Feb 03, 2009 8:04:11	Dragonlance does something very similar in this regard. When that world lost access to Magic (When Takisis stole the world) magic was rediscovered in the form of sorcery. When the world was returned so did the art of High Magic. There's rules for sorcerers converting their class levels to levels of wizard and visa versa. I'm not saying this is a good idea for DS but the option is out there for DMs to go that route.
#5 yashugan00 Feb 03, 2009 9:54:40	As a mechanic, I'd much rather see the distiction between defiling and preserving much less obvious than making them separate classes. but to go along with you: Defiling =? Warlock Preserver =? .. aren't they like druids? why not? What about a Paragon Path for Defiling/Preserving whose sole requirement is the Arcane Power source (as opposed to a particular class) With a 21st level Epic Destinee towards Avangion/Dragon SO: Defiling is simply another way to draw off from the Arcane Power source (hey wizards, sorcerers,Warlocks all 'do it' differently too). Any Arcane user can achieve it if the right condition are met. Perhaps you need a small obsidian orb implement to channel through (I believe the 2nd edition DS boxed set mentions each Champion having received one from Rajaat) So perhaps this requiring Implement mastery: Orbs Or perhaps something as simple as requiring a Feat similar to the 3.5 metamagic feats to 'enhance' a given power. Balance wise: if one were to allow players to use defiling magics they would be overpowered The problem is: by all accounts defiling SHOULD be overpowered, just look at the original campaign setting. Perphaps there is a way to make it feel over the top powerful while still being rule-balanced. The drawbacks should be significant to the player (as well as the environment) to make it on par with the other classes. (Endurance checks?) So options so far: Classes, Paragon Paths, Feats, requirements: (obsidian) orb mastery What do you think?