Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Phobos Apr 27, 2011 11:50:23	I've read a few forum posts, don't see what I'm asking but if I missed it, just point me. Reading old DS books and new DS books, the rules for defailign seem weak in 4E. I really hardly see a reason to use it, and not using it has no real down side. So, throwing out questions or ideas, not setting rules yet, I wonder... If you defile at-will, it is a 1 burst from you, doing half lvl damage to any creature/life force (plant etc) in blast (friend or foe). If you defile encounter, it is a burst 2, same damage. If you defile daily, it is a burst 3, same damage. Heck, why not run into a crowd of minions and mass suck them dry?? Lets just hope this doesn't leave you too exposed. Not really doing more damage as the spell increases, but as you level it has more of a draw then when you're lower.  You can, as an arcane user, get your your friends to stay away from you, and yes that works, but it won't always work.  And, what if your a swordmage, or a class that uses arcane melee, can you avoid eeryone then?? But as I said, heck why even care, there is no down side.... If you do NOT defile, then there is a similar draw, your powers are less potent.  Not defiling will mean no damage and life draw, and no one may notice, but unfortunately your damage is half your level less.  Do 8 points of damage as a lvl 4 mage, no defiling, you only do 6.  Now, is there a temptation to defile, do you do it just once to mass blast the minions, do you regret doing so? Again, not rules, just talking out loud, but isn't arcane use suppose to be a big deal, did 4e become that soft??? If anything I fear my damage may be harsh, but if its so low its pointless, well then... its pointless.  At level 30, you lose 15 damage.  Is that a lot, too much?  I'd be tempted to defile for that...
#2 Bera Apr 27, 2011 19:03:12	This topic has been pretty-well done to death: House Rules: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Ritual Defiling: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Ritual Defiling: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Distinct Classes: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Original Feel: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Defiling in play: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... House Rules: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Defiling = more power?: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... House Rules: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Puishment for Defiling: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Defiling with at-will/encounters: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Wy Defile?: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Alternate Version: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Defiling Addiction: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... The gist all the arcane defiling house rules is: arcane defiling seems unsatisfying. The resonable question to ask yourself is: what type of game am I playing that defiling seems unsatisfying? If you're running a game with PC defilers, your answer will be different than the game where you want to give the Veiled Alliance PCs more temptation to defile.  If you just want more powerful defiler NPCs, just make them more powerful; you can even use the templar and defiler templates from DDI. Remember, in 4th edition, PCs follow one set of rules and NPCs have different ones. Defiling in 2nd Edition never killed creatures unless it was a dragon/sorcerer-king doing it; I think leting defiling kill minions is a bad plan. Interestingly, there was also little temptation to defile in the 2nd edition, there wasn't a great mechanic whereby preservers could just defile once or twice unless you used the Spells and Magic book. Some of the easiest/best modifications for defiling in 4e include: 1) Use the Defiler/Templar theme for monsters or just tougher NPC defilers. 2) Let Arcane Defiling be used with at-will/encounter powers. 3) Remove the damage from Arcane Defiling. 4) Use Terrain powers which expand the use of Arcane Defiling or risk accidental defiling. 5) Use A Defiling Addiction or Defiling Plague disease. 6) Modify Rituals to encourage defiling (bonus to check or reduced component cost). 7) Give free (defiling?) feats to PCs who agree to never preserve.
#3 MrCelsius Apr 30, 2011 21:59:30	In my last campaign the party ended up adventuring in the Demon Wastes, for which I'd decided to steal elements of Rokugan's Shadowlands.  Most entertaining of these was the Taint.  Taint is a pervasive corruption which slowly turns you evil.  I created a disease track for the Taint, made it a near-certainty that it'd be contracted, and provided precious few ways to ward it off. Here are my mechanical notes just to give you an idea of what I was up to. ========================================================================= The Taint - Level 20 Disease    'This sinister affliction withers flesh and warps souls, restoring the strength it saps only at a dark price.' Attack: +18 vs. Fortitude -- Endurance: Improve DC 35, Maintain DC 30, Worsen DC 29 or lower Disease Track:                 The target is cured                     /\ Initial Effect:        The target's healing surge value is halved                     /\                     \/         The target's surge value is halved and zie loses two surges             these surges cannot be regained until cured                     \/             The target cannot spend healing surges Surges and hitpoints that would be lost to the Taint can be gained or spent as normal, but the subject must accept a number of Taint Points equal to the HP which would not have been gained. When an individual's Taint Points are greater than zero, zie begins to hear voices of sinister temptation, but may resist them. When an individual's Taint Points equal half zir bloodied value, zie begins to manifest physical signs of the Taint, and the voices intensify.  At the end of each extended rest, the subject must avoid an attack of +10 versus Will in order to resist a wicked suggestion. When an individual's Taint Points equal 75% HP, the physical signs intensify, as do the voices.  At the end of each short or extended rest, the subject must avoid an attack of +15 versus Will in order to resist a wicked suggestion. When an individual's Taint Points equal or exceed zir hit point total, zie becomes an evil creature of the Shadowlands. Moving a step down the disease track adds the individual's healing surge value in Taint Points; moving a step up removes the individual's healing surge value in Taint Points The Cure Disease ritual can remove the Taint disease, but Taint Points and their results are uneffected The Remove Affliction ritual can remove half the subject's healing surge value in Taint Points, altering their effects accordingly Once an individual's Taint Points equal zir hit points, Remove Affliction will no longer work.  Only Cleanse Taint, a level 18 ritual, can restore a soul overwhelmed by the Taint. =========================================================================
#4 Valdier May 09, 2011 19:20:17	I think my favorite to date is (modified version of Guysery2k from community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...): The default casting method is defiling. To preserve, the caster must spend a Minor Action before he cast the spell in his same turn. When an arcane caster uses the "Arcane Defiling" feature, the defiled area becomes Defiled Terrain, as per Dark Sun Creature Catalogue, page 34 Rocky terrain becomes "Sickening Heat" terrain verdant terrains become "Ash Field" terrain desert-like terrain becomes "Black Sand" terrain If defiling occurs a second time on a previously defiled terrain, the terrain type changes to "Dead Magic" terrain. Living creatures in the defiled area: 1 square for At-Wills half spell level squares for Encounter powers (minimum 2) spell level squares for Daily powers (minimum 3) Allies takes necrotic damage equal to half the defilers surge value If an arcane caster loses the "Arcane Defiling" feature, he can preserve without spending a Minor Action before casting the spell.
#5 Bera May 11, 2011 20:43:27	The problem with the required-minor-action-for-preserving sort of defiling is that it privileges Defilers and hinders preservers without any reference for other power sources. Preservers automatically become weaker than Primal, Psionic, or Martial classes. Traditional warlocks could almost only be defilers since they need their minor actions for cursing. If you really want defiling to be the most potent sources of power, you need to give a benefit only for defiling, not penalties to preserving. Simply changing Arcane Defiling to a free action that functions on any defiling arcane power will give the desired effect more than requiring minor actions for preserving. That would really increase the power of a defiler without decreasing preserver effectiveness. Terrain changes for defiling should be done anyway. The problem, then, is PC defilers will always outshine other classes in combat, even if they're forced to hide their defiler powers because of social pressures (i.e. Roleplaying). This might lead to lots of multiclass and hybrid defilers, who can do things without arcane powers, but still have very potent arcane magic.
#6 Valdier May 12, 2011 18:03:41	The problem with the required-minor-action-for-preserving sort of defiling is that it privileges Defilers and hinders preservers without any reference for other power sources. Preservers automatically become weaker than Primal, Psionic, or Martial classes. Traditional warlocks could almost only be defilers since they need their minor actions for cursing. If you really want defiling to be the most potent sources of power, you need to give a benefit only for defiling, not penalties to preserving. Simply changing Arcane Defiling to a free action that functions on any defiling arcane power will give the desired effect more than requiring minor actions for preserving. That would really increase the power of a defiler without decreasing preserver effectiveness. Terrain changes for defiling should be done anyway. There are benefits to defiling... you get the standard aspects in the book... and there are drawbacks... you do damage to everything around you. Mostly your friends. Defiling is supposed to be tempting... better than preserving, until you reach the upper levels. Thats how darksun is.
#7 mach4 May 13, 2011 18:07:10	Changing it from damaging people to giving penatlies to rolls to those within the radius would make it more tempting, less inhibiting to members of the defiler's groupmates, alot for multiple defilers to not simply waste their own troops, and preserve more of the original feel. -2 per tier adjusted for power levels of the campaign. Dragons could cause damage to those in the vicinity. Keeping defiling to encounter and dailies would prevent it from being too abused by players, possibly requiring a minor action to use defiling with at will powers.