Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Raddu76 Feb 14, 2011 15:35:34	The old DS Desert Giants were particularly resistant to Psionics.  In 2e the got to make a "Spell" save vs any psionic power used against them.  How could I replicate this in 4e?   Giving them a Saving throw (10+) seems like it's too powerful.  How about a "Save" of their Wis attack to beat whatever the attacker rolled?
#2 Warunsun Feb 14, 2011 18:34:08	The best way to go is simply to raise their Will defense or raise their defenses against attacks that use the Psionic or psychic keyword. But check the game stats in the Creature Catalog first. They may already have special defenses. I believe that they can reflect certain psionic attacks already.
#3 Raddu76 Feb 14, 2011 18:38:43	The best way to go is simply to raise their Will defense or raise their defenses against attacks that use the Psionic or psychic keyword. But check the game stats in the Creature Catalog first. They may already have special defenses. I believe that they can reflect certain psionic attacks already. The monsters in the DSCC are Beast, Shadow, and Beast Titan, not Desert or Plains Giants.  I figured WotC just assumed we could use Hill/Stone/whatever giants instead of making "Athasian" Giants. In 2e Desert Giants were particularly resistant to Psionics, as I said in the op, so I was just trying to recreate that aspect in 4e.
#4 Warunsun Feb 14, 2011 19:19:16	Make them resistant to psychic damage by 10 and resistant to force damage by 5. That is even better than the old style saving throws. They always take less damage. Try this:
#5 fromost_the_grimm_02 Feb 14, 2011 19:35:25	I'd second giving them resistance to psychic damage.  I'd go for 5/tier, myself. I'd also look at a +2 bonus to Will defense against powers with the psychic keyword, and maybe a +2 bonus to saving throws against conditions resulting from such powers.
#6 Raddu76 Feb 14, 2011 20:00:24	Thanks Warunsun, those look great! FromostTheGrim, I like that  +2 Bonuse to save against conditions from Psionic powers and +2 Will
#7 Raddu76 Feb 17, 2011 16:15:45	Hmm...one other issue.  I noticed most of the giants in 4e are large. Desert Giants are supposed to be 20-25' tall, that sounds like AT LEAST Gargantuan 4x4, what do you think?
#8 fromost_the_grimm_02 Feb 17, 2011 18:17:59	4E has made much brouhaha over larger creatures not necessarily being Large, etc, with [figure] area/footprint not necessarily representative of height/size. While this might seem a little counter-intuitive, the tactical considerations of size and reach given 4E's wargame-heavy mechanics are significant, and shouldn't be taken lightly.  A 4x4 giant with commensurate reach in 4E is going to pack a far bigger punch than a similarly sized and statted cousin from previous editions.  Myself, I would err on the side of most giants being Large, with the occasional BBEG making it to Huge.  And this is coming from someone who's house-ruled that half-giants are Large in his campaign, because ... well, because they should be.
#9 Hammerhead Feb 17, 2011 19:30:03	Hmm...one other issue.  I noticed most of the giants in 4e are large. Desert Giants are supposed to be 20-25' tall, that sounds like AT LEAST Gargantuan 4x4, what do you think? AFAIK all the giants in 4e are large and the titans are huge and 20-25' would be huge size.
#10 Alphastream Feb 19, 2011 0:09:07	I love having big stuff on the battlefield. I would personally set giants as being of a wide range in size and just plunk down the size you like for a particular combat. In general, I do like Large due to mobility/battle tactics issues. Adding a huge giant can then add color. On a very big space and to make it interesting/scary, having a bunch of huges can be really cool.
#11 Raddu76 Feb 19, 2011 6:23:31	The party is only 6th level so I was struggling how to make this work because I really wanted to include giants and recreate the Battle of Stone (Ivory Triangle) with the PC's in a different fight in the middle of the battle. I'm going to make the giants mostly 5x5, which would give them in my esimatey one space between each of their legs and Instead of making them combatants I'm going to make them traps/hazards along with a skill challenge since the pc's main foes are these bounty hunters that are after them, not the Giants or the Gulgans.
#12 big_goon Feb 22, 2011 14:09:35	I personally would love to play out the Iron Mines of Tyr scenario, where Rikus and Neeva lead a platoon of dwarves vs the Giants. For that scenario, huge (or larger) giants certainly make a lot of sense. The players can move through medium (and small with a squeeze) sized tunnels, while the giants could only move to the edge and attack within their reach. If you used large-sized giants, they could potentially squeeze their entire bodies into the medium-sized tunnel passages. It just doesn't have the same effect.