Killing Kalak? It's the same plot-line they did almost two decades ago. If that's the case, then why retell the same story?
Though, I would like to see the new, "Tyr Region" map.
I do appreciate the renewed interest in DS.
Also, for those of us a couple decades late to the party, it's going to be cheaper for us to get the new campaign guide. The Dark Sun boxed sets are $50 - used; that's too much, to me, for a used item. $80 new in shrink wrap is too much for me to be willing to break that precious seal.
And of course, in a new book you get Athas depicted with 4e mechanics. Enough Athasian monsters to warrant its own Creature Catalog? Oh, yes. I don't have the Monster Manual 2/3 because I've felt I can do enough using the MM1 and adventure-specific monsters. But this I must have.
Well, I took a look at the new Dark Sun coming out; it looks like the same thing in 2e, except with a more expensive book.
Killing Kalak? It's the same plot-line they did almost two decades ago. If that's the case, then why retell the same story?
Though, I would like to see the new, "Tyr Region" map.
I do appreciate the renewed interest in DS.
More expensive than the Dragon Kings of Athas book you pictured? Yes (the DS Campaign Guide has a higher page count, IIRC, and the Dragon Kings of Athas book was a supplement, requiring either the $30 original or $50 revised and expanded boxed set to use the material in context). More expensive than the Dark Sun Campaign: Revised and Expanded boxed set? No.
"Kalak is dead" as the starting point does not mean they are telling the same story. It does mean that most of the story advances beyond Kalak's death that happened in 2nd Edition are now "possible futures." If things don't go that direction in your campaign, then they don't have to.
The history of Athas has already been changed. There are mysterious, fey creatures who sort of look like Elves, but aren't (the Eladrin). There are humans that have been changed by living in the Defiled lands into something more (Tieflings). Draegoth's children, the Dray, will be taking a more active role in the new Tablelands (Dragonborn).
As a DM, I plan to change other parts of the history because I think it will improve the story.
If you want to adapt the old adventures and run your players through the same stories, feel free. If you want to take your Dark Sun campaign in a new direction, then you will be able to.
My campaign - will not follow a written plotline, but will develope from generated events.
My dray - are smooth scaled dinosaur humanoids, that spit a mixture of chemicals that react to create fire, or pure venom.
My kreen - the Thri-Kreen would still exist as they have in past editions, but the players would only be allowed to play as another species of medium size Tohr-Kreen that have two hands for weilding weapons, and the other two are mantis claws. They have the same personality and are accepted as kin in thri-kreen clutchs.
My milkshake - brings all the orcs to the hored.
My tieflings - are going to be retooled and re-skinned soon.
@MalakLightfoot: Where'd you see that bit about Tieflings and Defiled Lands?
yeah, I'm interested in that too. All I could find was some fans suggesting that as a possibility, but nothing official about it at all.
@MalakLightfoot: Where'd you see that bit about Tieflings and Defiled Lands?
Well, in the absence of fluff explaining the origins of Tieflings on Athas, it makes sense. I assume that we will get more detailed information as we get closer to release. If Wizards took a different route, I'll either adopt it or not, depending on which I think provides greater story potential.
So, for now, I am making an assumption about the origins of Tieflings on Athas. However, since Tieflings did not exist on Athas in 2nd Edition, it is undeniable that the history of Athas has been rewritten to take them into account. ;)
I am pretty sure that I will be rewriting the history of Half Giants for my campaign. I think the idea that the Half Giants have been slaves for so long that they have lost their history and have come to believe that they are the creations of the Sorcerer Kings (and the Sorcerer Kings have encouraged this belief) provides more plot potential than the Half Giants actually being the creation of the Sorcerer Kings. Having a Half Giant PC stumble upon a record of Half Giants before they are supposed to have been created, seeking out the real history of his people, and trying to reclaim his people's history and identity would make for a great story. Having Half Giants try to create a unique identity for themselves despite being a created race is already being done in Eberron by the Warforged.
@MalakLightfoot: Where'd you see that bit about Tieflings and Defiled Lands?
Well, in the absence of fluff explaining the origins of Tieflings on Athas, it makes sense. I assume that we will get more detailed information as we get closer to release. If Wizards took a different route, I'll either adopt it or not, depending on which I think provides greater story potential.
So, for now, I am making an assumption about the origins of Tieflings on Athas. However, since Tieflings did not exist on Athas in 2nd Edition, it is undeniable that the history of Athas has been rewritten to take them into account. ;)
Ahh. Interesting idea. I might snag it for my own campaigns if I don't care for the official version of where they come from.
I am pretty sure that I will be rewriting the history of Half Giants for my campaign. I think the idea that the Half Giants have been slaves for so long that they have lost their history and have come to believe that they are the creations of the Sorcerer Kings (and the Sorcerer Kings have encouraged this belief) provides more plot potential than the Half Giants actually being the creation of the Sorcerer Kings. Having a Half Giant PC stumble upon a record of Half Giants before they are supposed to have been created, seeking out the real history of his people, and trying to reclaim his people's history and identity would make for a great story. Having Half Giants try to create a unique identity for themselves despite being a created race is already being done in Eberron by the Warforged.
Half-Giants aren't really considered a "created race". They were made through bizarre interbreeding of humans and giants, to be sure... but they aren't "created" in the same sense that Warforged are.
My dray - are smooth scaled dinosaur humanoids, that spit a mixture of chemicals that react to create fire, or pure venom.
You might want to see how they have refluffed the Dragonborn into the Dray before you make this decision. I suspect some of your refluff has already been refluffed for you.
My kreen -
the Thri-Kreen would still exist as they have in past editions, but the players would only be allowed to play as another species of medium size Tohr-Kreen that have two hands for weilding weapons, and the other two are mantis claws. They have the same personality and are accepted as kin in thri-kreen clutchs.
I'm curious why you would do this, though. I suppose that, since the players are supposed to be from the distant past, PC Kreen could be "evolutionary throwbacks." But Thri Kreen, as they are physically described in Dark Sun, existed on Oerth in the Desert of Desolation before Dark Sun was released, so this change doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
In addition, you will need to change the Thri Kreen racial abilities. The mantis claws will not be able to grasp things, so they would lose the free action stow / draw ability. The mantis claws should do more damage, so the claw flurry damage scale will need to be increased. Then there will be a player who will want to specialize in the use of those claws (I would want to), so you will need to adopt natural weapons rules, create Feat support, and possibly a Paragon Path.
I understand taking your own spin (see: my take on Half Giants), but why fix mechanical things that aren't broken. Time spent rewriting rules is time that could be spent on writing story. If there is a story reason for doing so, and you would expect the PCs to run across it, then it is time well spent. If it is change for the sake of change, it could be wasted effort.
My milkshake
- brings all the orcs to the hoard.
Could you teach me? How much do you charge? ;)
Actualy i was speaking in terms of native darksun that dosnt have my greyhawk twist.
I own the origional "thri-kreen of athas" book. there are many other variant races of thri-kreen all called tohr-kreen by non kreen races. Quad weilding is already a no... and i support that. so i cant really think of another way without the kreen having the claw hands being nothing more than two fingers.
where is the dray stuff at? ive only seen the name change and that they are the children of some thingamajig. I prefer a more natural origin like homoreptelia evolution.
As for half-giants... it gets a bit dirty if you try to think of "mateing"
ohhhh jeez... i couldnt imagine their is any actual insertion.. can i say that?
As for half-giants... it gets a bit dirty if you try to think of "mateing"
Actually, it could get a bit lethal, depending on the scenario.
Or, more probable, one of them used strong magic to control the outcome of being injured near the Pristine Tower, creating out of a human a fully breedable race with desired traits. This is how Nibenay created his half-cylops, half-human son Dhojakt.
Actualy i was speaking in terms of native darksun that dosnt have my greyhawk twist.
I own the origional "thri-kreen of athas" book. there are many other variant races of thri-kreen all called tohr-kreen by non kreen races. Quad weilding is already a no... and i support that. so i cant really think of another way without the kreen having the claw hands being nothing more than two fingers.
The Thri Kreen we will be getting in the Dark Sun campaign guide have a pair of dominant arms, and a pair of weaker arms. The dominant arms are strong enough to wield weapons and grapple and such. The weak arms can do some fine manipulation and carry things, but lack strength. Expanded use of the weaker arms might be granted via Feats or Paragon Paths.
The other species of Thri Kreen will probably be rewritten to be a social distinction, rather than physical one, or they will be represented by feats and Paragon Paths.
where is the dray stuff at? ive only seen the name change and that they are the children of some thingamajig. I prefer a more natural origin like homoreptelia evolution.
The Dray are the creation of a Sorcerer King who is believed to be dead (Dregoth, either slain by the other Sorcerer Kings or by Borys, but returned as a lich). Whether he magically altered humans, or simply encouraged the evolution of a lizardman race is uncertain, but the Dray are what they are now because of him.
As for half-giants... it gets a bit dirty if you try to think of "mateing"
The interbreeding was magically facilitated, whether by shrinking a giant, or enlarging a human is unknown. The first few births until they had a large enough breeding pool were probably distinctly uncomfortable, and likely fatal, for any human mothers.
and, no, you probably can't say that. ;)
Half giants were the creations of the sorcererkings eldritch plot device, along with athasian ewoks.
I see half giants as a combination of human and giant dna rather than impregnation.
Tigons vs. Ligers
You also have to wonder about reverse combinations. Take muls and Half elves for intance, the genders should affect the outcome.
Tigons = female lions and male tigers
Ligers = female tiger and male lions
Mul = Male human and female dwarf. strong tall
Halfling = male dwarf and female human. short weak
lol just a theory
And nobody compared the cost of wages index; In '92, the minimum wage was $4.25. I don't remember how much I paid for the box set, but it had to be $20 or $30. That's about six hours of work whereas with minimum wage nearly doubled, at eight an hour, it would only take five hours for a person earning minimum wage to be able to purchase the book. So it's just a little cheaper than the box-set.
I assume half-giants were the former soldiers of the Champion's Armies; matuated to be better soldiers. That is, if history's the same...really, there should be no official Dark Sun history. It would be better if it were left a mystery.
Their is a time and place..
Darksun is has only a small area shown...and very little backround. (at first) I see Darksun as a world that is to be explored, and survived in, fleshing out as you go because its a vast wasteland
Now a world like Greyhawk is all about nostalgia. You cant eff with Greyhawks past and timeline. (well you can but its not as cool) Its fun to explore and share and compare storys and experinces with people who didnt even play the same campaign, but intereacted with the same npcs in the same world
Darksun has only a small area shown...and very little backround. (at first) I see Darksun as a world that is to be explored, and survived in, fleshing out as you go because its a vast wasteland
Say what now? Must not be talking about the same darksun I played in for over a decade.
Now a world like Greyhawk is all about nostalgia. You cant eff with Greyhawks past and timeline. (well you can but its not as cool) Its fun to explore and share and compare storys and experinces with people who didnt even play the same campaign, but intereacted with the same npcs in the same world
Ah, subjective opinions are so wonderful. I wanna play to!
"Now a world like Athas is all about nostalgia. You cant eff with Athas' past and timeline. (well you can but its not as cool) Its fun to explore and share and compare stories and experiences with people who didn't even play the same campaign, but interacted with the same npcs in the same world"
I like this game.
And nobody compared the cost of wages index; In '92, the minimum wage was $4.25. I don't remember how much I paid for the box set, but it had to be $20 or $30. That's about six hours of work whereas with minimum wage nearly doubled, at eight an hour, it would only take five hours for a person earning minimum wage to be able to purchase the book. So it's just a little cheaper than the box-set.
Probably not the best way to compare 1992 dollars to 2010 dollars, since the minimum wge is set by law and has little to do with how much things cost. This calculator goes off the consumer price index. which is a better measure and pegs a dollar in 1992 as being a bit more than $1.50 today. So that $20 to $30 boxed set in 1992 is about equivalent to $30 to $45 today. Meaning that it is anywhere from about the same to a lot cheaper in todays dollars, depending on whether you paid closer to $20 or $30.
Well, I'll have to see when I might buy it in 2011; if they're just going with the death of Kalak and not the unrealistic adventure-stories then in might be interesting to me; I rather enjoyed the box set I got in '92 and loved the basic Dark Sun world presented therein.
That is, in fact, what's happening.
I own the origional "thri-kreen of athas" book. there are many other variant races of thri-kreen all called tohr-kreen by non kreen races. Quad weilding is already a no... and i support that. so i cant really think of another way without the kreen having the claw hands being nothing more than two fingers.
Actually, Thri-kreen of Athas does have provisions for quad-weilding. It was quite difficult (and expensive in proficiency slots; 2e's feat/skill equivalent) to do effectively however.
where is the dray stuff at? ive only seen the name change and that they are the children of some thingamajig. I prefer a more natural origin like homoreptelia evolution.
Dray were originally detailed in "City by the Silt Sea", which explicity states they were magically transformed humans created by Dregoth, to fit his vision of the perfect draconic servitor race.
As for half-giants... it gets a bit dirty if you try to think of "mateing"ohhhh jeez... i couldnt imagine their is any actual insertion..
You're clearly a very sheltered individual.
The idea of a giant and a human mating, or of a human mother giving birth to a half giant baby, is brutal and completely ridiculous.
No, it's not.
Assuming human like proportions for genitalia, there are still plenty of human women who could accommodate a full-sized giant. Indeed, there are plenty of examples of real women accommodating objects of similar size, and creatures far more alien.
That said, the original DS material makes it clear that half-giants are the result of magical intervention, which makes sense, considering the scale of the program required to build an entire new race in the numbers that must have been desired.