Dragon's levy in practice - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dragon's levy in practice

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Palladinae
Jul 08, 2010 4:29:24 As we all well know, each year a Dragon is making pilgrmage around Tyr Region, where he gathers slaves to sacrifice them in order to keep Rajaat in his prison. But there are some things, that bother me:
- Each of seven cities donates 1000 slaves. Why 1000? What about lost cities, were they to forced to 1000 slaves? Or maybe less, as it was more cities to gather from? If no, why surviving cities still have to give 1000, it too less (comparing 7000 to lets say 14 000 if one counts Guistenal, Kalidnay and forgotten cities).

- What happens to slaves? Are the slain by Dragon, who keeps lifeforce in obsidian orb? I don't imagine he travels with bunch of slaves in his tracks.

- I assume sorcerer-kings send slaves to some camp, where the are kept under guards until Dragon arrives. Nobody pays attention to three or four vanished slaves, but disappearance of hundred could rise suspicions. But do guards know their purpose? Are the sacrificed with slaves or evacuated before Dragon comes?
#2
Duke5150
Jul 08, 2010 8:24:59

- Each of seven cities donates 1000 slaves. Why 1000? What about lost cities, were they to forced to 1000 slaves? Or maybe less, as it was more cities to gather from?

I forget which book talks about the levy, but I remember it saying that after something happened, (Kalak's death?) the levy became a firm 1000 slaves from each city. So before that, it could have been as few as 800 from each city state. (rough guess) As to the Why? The idea of 7000 slaves being sacrificed has a ton of flavor and serious implications on athasian life. It's a mystery to begin with. "the dragon eats that many people!!! Once you learn about rajaat and all that, you understand how powerful those binding spells must be, to require so much lifeforce. It lets you know right away that if things were very grim, it would be an improvement. Plus, it's brutally awesome.
Before the fall of the older city states, I'm sure the levy was around 400-600 slaves each. (rough guess)

If no, why surviving cities still have to give 1000, it too less (comparing 7000 to lets say 14 000 if one counts Guistenal, Kalidnay and forgotten cities).

Again, back then, I think the levy required less from each city-state.

- What happens to slaves? Are the slain by Dragon, who keeps lifeforce in obsidian orb? I don't imagine he travels with bunch of slaves in his tracks.

I'd guess (and that's all this is) that the dragon & a large force, takes them into the deep desert where one of his armies waits and separates the slaves. One group goes with the army to a specific location near the sea of silt, and shipped off to ur draxa to replenish his labor force. The other group remains behind with the dragon, who drains their lifeforce and stores it in his obsidian orbs.

At which point he probably goes to the make shift camp near the sea of silt and pukes up the empowered orbs, locks them up and has powerful guardians protect them. Then he swallows more orbs and goes to collect the next stock of slaves. Repeat until all of his slave ships have left for ur draxa and he's got a fluff cargo of empowered orbs, ready to be used in the darkest, most powerful ritual in athasian history. (all a guess on my part)

- I assume sorcerer-kings send slaves to some camp, where the are kept under guards until Dragon arrives.

I think slaves are moved in secret, over time, to remote locations and held in camps when it's nearing the time for the levy. Each city probably devotes a good size army to transport and safeguard the slaves. The dragon shows up with a large force of templars and soldiers and moves them to the deeper desert, at which time another large force arrives to take a portion back to the
sea of silt slave hold and stick them on ships. The other half are used as I guessed above. While the dragon returns the empowered orbs to the camp for storage and gets new ones, the army that travels with him moves on to the next city-state, as directed by the dragon. (again, all a guess)

Nobody pays attention to three or four vanished slaves, but disappearance of hundred could rise suspicions. But do guards know their purpose? Are the sacrificed with slaves or evacuated before Dragon comes?

I think slaves are moved to remote locations as time passes, not all at once. And yes, I believe every templar and guard assigned to those slave camps knows the slaves are doomed. They probably don't know what the slaves are used for, but it's safe to assume they believe the slaves will die the worst death possible.

Most people would probably rather be eaten by halflings or thrikreen than look upon the dragon, much less be in his presence. I'd go so far as to imagine some people simply die from sheer terror at the sight of the dragon, or go insane from fear.
#3
lagomorpprime
Jul 08, 2010 13:29:24 The Crimson Legion mentions the Crater of Bones and later conversations make it clear that this is the holding pen for the levy to the Dragon. Urik just ships its levy out to a crater that they can't escape from and lets the Dragon do his thing, leaving behind a huge collection of bones.
#4
Pennarin
Jul 08, 2010 14:30:13
The Crater of Bones is the local delivery and holding spot. There must be others, farther away, which we never heard about.
#5
king_cromag
Jul 08, 2010 14:45:12 It has been awhile since I read the books but wasn't it more than just slaves. I remember raw matierals being part of the levy as well.
#6
Palladinae
Jul 09, 2010 2:32:14 Honestly speaking I don't remember Dragon striding around Tyr Region with entourage of templars. I always imagined it as a solitary, if not hermit, creature, a harbinger of doom approaching each city once a year in solitude. In my view he would be more terrifying, than surrounded by bunch of servants.

As far as I remember most of PP heroes don't know about levy, they learn of it from Tithian, did they? This means, levy is offered in secret, so slaves are smuggled out one by one, rather in large number. I imagine them concentrated, guarded, lured to the last moment they are going to construction works, until it is too late and Dragon approaches. Also, i'm not sure about "raw materials" king_cromag mentions. If I remember correctly, old defiling rules stated defiler draws energy from plants and animals, only dragons were able to collect it from humans. In that case such potent spells would require human energy, not ordinary.
#7
RalofTyr
Jul 09, 2010 16:04:42 In practice, the Dragon's Levy isn't feasible; it's just too difficult logistically and in secret? The Dragon wouldn't waste his time collecting the slaves in person; his Templars must do it. That have to have some way to get across the Sea of Silt; if they used a vehicle; it possible, using the Estuaries, to collect from every city-state with each slave group only marching no less then 50 miles.

How do you maintain secrecy? Why, how many guards to you need to guard a thousand slaves? one per twenty? Send 950 slaves plus 50 guards; there's your thousand slaves Mr. Borys!!!
#8
Pennarin
Jul 09, 2010 19:39:37
In practice, the Dragon's Levy isn't feasible; it's just too difficult logistically and in secret? The Dragon wouldn't waste his time collecting the slaves in person; his Templars must do it. That have to have some way to get across the Sea of Silt; if they used a vehicle; it possible, using the Estuaries, to collect from every city-state with each slave group only marching no less then 50 miles.

How do you maintain secrecy? Why, how many guards to you need to guard a thousand slaves? one per twenty? Send 950 slaves plus 50 guards; there's your thousand slaves Mr. Borys!!!

IIRC the Dragon doesn't collect the slaves (albeit plenty of people in the community have made convincing arguments that some indeed are collected), he kills them on the spot. That spot is secluded and agreed upon by each SK. Templars, guards, even perhaps a small army detachment, accompany them to protect, prevent deaths or escapes, or raids on the group. It may well be that the escort never makes it back, even is meant to stay behind and die along with what they've witnessed. A few SK might have templars so well trusted they are informed of what will happen and thus make a quiet escape before all are slaughtered. For example, Dhojakt - Nibenay's son - is surely the one guy he sends along with the levy and expects to come back. I expect templars stay behind, are horrified by the slaughter, and then terrified when the Dragon moves in their direction as well, mopping up all observers.
#9
phoenix_m
Jul 09, 2010 21:45:56 I thought some city's popilations knew, Gulg for example has a throw away line about how the Oba must sacrifice 1000 for the benifit of the greater city's survival - or something like that. I have a hard time thinking Balic doesn't know about the levy with the missing of 200 levy and sacking of Balic(what source is that from anyway).
#10
RalofTyr
Jul 10, 2010 0:34:24

IIRC the Dragon doesn't collect the slaves (albeit plenty of people in the community have made convincing arguments that some indeed are collected), he kills them on the spot. That spot is secluded and agreed upon by each SK. Templars, guards, even perhaps a small army detachment, accompany them to protect, prevent deaths or escapes, or raids on the group. It may well be that the escort never makes it back, even is meant to stay behind and die along with what they've witnessed. A few SK might have templars so well trusted they are informed of what will happen and thus make a quiet escape before all are slaughtered. For example, Dhojakt - Nibenay's son - is surely the one guy he sends along with the levy and expects to come back. I expect templars stay behind, are horrified by the slaughter, and then terrified when the Dragon moves in their direction as well, mopping up all observers.

Hmmm, in the Valley of Dust and Fire, it mentions that Ur-Draxa gets a fresh influx of slaves once a year.

For a city the size of Ur-Draxa, a influx would have to be at least a few hundred. That more than the Dragon can carry.

#11
king_cromag
Jul 10, 2010 1:47:37 I found the quote that mentions other things besides slaves in the levy.

Unto the Dragon was rendered the tribute of 600 erdlus, 170 kanks, 30 mekillots, and 400 slaves.
One hundred pounds of iron, 60 pounds of copper, and 20 pounds of gold were given unto the Dragon at that time as well. It is recorded that the beast was well pleased with the levy of Yaramuke and spared the city, in the sixth recorded Year of Kings Contemplation.

The Scroll of Eibok,
recovered from the ruins of Yaramuke

taken from Valley of Dust and Fire page 58
#12
rkane909
Jul 12, 2010 14:40:35 This is taken from The Ivory Triangle.

From The City-State of Gulg book
~"The single cultural ritual that cuts across the societies of all the city-states is the Dragon's Levy."

~"In Gulg, the people believe the Dragon is the one force that can endanger their home while the oba rules."

~"Every year 1,000 people are led into the salt flats by the oba's templars..."

~"Sacrifices are usually comprised of prisoners of war, criminals and captive slaves, though a few zealous citizens always join the group in a display of religious or patriotic frenzy."

From The City-State of Nibenay book
~"The legends of the region suggest that a time will come when the city will not be able to provide servants to the Dragon. At that time , the springs will boil dry, the fields will turn to dust, the forest will wither and the walls of the city will crumble."

This suggests that everyone in the tablelands knows about the Dragon's Levy and that 1,000 slaves are required. It's been a while since I've read the Prism Pentad, but I would have to assume the PP heroes knew about the levy before the death of Kalak and assumed that Tyr would no longer provide a levy after slavery was abolished. The revelation came from finding out that Tithian was still providing the levy in secret.
#13
Palladinae
Jul 12, 2010 14:58:49 Well it's been long ago since I read Prism Pentad, moreover it was very, very poorly translated (believe me, I know what I'am saying, I work as a translator), but I seem to recall that heroes learn of Dragon's levy after Kalak's death and it is Tithian that tells them a story.

We can assume people of Nibenay and Gulg know abut levy, Urik has it's own place of slaves' disposal. If people of Balic did not know, the have learned of levy in free year one. Still there i Draj and Raam, that are mysteries.

While I don't like idea of Dragon followed by procession of templars, king_cromag's information convince me: there has to be somebody to oversee taken goods. Still, I prefer idea of Dragon approaching slaves and guards and singlehandedly taking their lifeforce and storing it in obsidian orbs that are in his swollen belly.
#14
Pennarin
Jul 12, 2010 16:11:20 This is what's fantastic now, with the new edition and the setting reboot: you can cherry pick, you do what you want! People may or may not know how it works or what the levy is, depending on what you want.
#15
Rustmonster
Jul 12, 2010 17:44:52 How did they collect that many slaves every year?
#16
turlough
Jul 15, 2010 9:23:17
How did they collect that many slaves every year?

If you are asking if they can handle the loss of 1000 people every year and still be sustainable, then the answer is yes because they are. I found data on population and made a spreadsheet on it and from what I could figure out, although I am no expert on this, they can either sustain it with a very slow growth rate (only one or two extra people per year for centuries and then growth) or they are gone within 50 years or so. Since they are still around, I assume they can.

But, again, I am no expert on this.

turlough
#17
RalofTyr
Jul 15, 2010 23:49:44 According to this, there are about 9 million people living around the Tyr region; there should be one large city, 19 smaller cities, 105 towns and 17 thousand villages.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Palladinae Jul 08, 2010 4:29:24	As we all well know, each year a Dragon is making pilgrmage around Tyr Region, where he gathers slaves to sacrifice them in order to keep Rajaat in his prison. But there are some things, that bother me: - Each of seven cities donates 1000 slaves. Why 1000? What about lost cities, were they to forced to 1000 slaves? Or maybe less, as it was more cities to gather from? If no, why surviving cities still have to give 1000, it too less (comparing 7000 to lets say 14 000 if one counts Guistenal, Kalidnay and forgotten cities). - What happens to slaves? Are the slain by Dragon, who keeps lifeforce in obsidian orb? I don't imagine he travels with bunch of slaves in his tracks. - I assume sorcerer-kings send slaves to some camp, where the are kept under guards until Dragon arrives. Nobody pays attention to three or four vanished slaves, but disappearance of hundred could rise suspicions. But do guards know their purpose? Are the sacrificed with slaves or evacuated before Dragon comes?
#2 Duke5150 Jul 08, 2010 8:24:59	- Each of seven cities donates 1000 slaves. Why 1000? What about lost cities, were they to forced to 1000 slaves? Or maybe less, as it was more cities to gather from? I forget which book talks about the levy, but I remember it saying that after something happened, (Kalak's death?) the levy became a firm 1000 slaves from each city. So before that, it could have been as few as 800 from each city state. (rough guess) As to the Why? The idea of 7000 slaves being sacrificed has a ton of flavor and serious implications on athasian life. It's a mystery to begin with. "the dragon eats that many people!!! Once you learn about rajaat and all that, you understand how powerful those binding spells must be, to require so much lifeforce. It lets you know right away that if things were very grim, it would be an improvement. Plus, it's brutally awesome. Before the fall of the older city states, I'm sure the levy was around 400-600 slaves each. (rough guess) If no, why surviving cities still have to give 1000, it too less (comparing 7000 to lets say 14 000 if one counts Guistenal, Kalidnay and forgotten cities). Again, back then, I think the levy required less from each city-state. - What happens to slaves? Are the slain by Dragon, who keeps lifeforce in obsidian orb? I don't imagine he travels with bunch of slaves in his tracks. I'd guess (and that's all this is) that the dragon & a large force, takes them into the deep desert where one of his armies waits and separates the slaves. One group goes with the army to a specific location near the sea of silt, and shipped off to ur draxa to replenish his labor force. The other group remains behind with the dragon, who drains their lifeforce and stores it in his obsidian orbs. At which point he probably goes to the make shift camp near the sea of silt and pukes up the empowered orbs, locks them up and has powerful guardians protect them. Then he swallows more orbs and goes to collect the next stock of slaves. Repeat until all of his slave ships have left for ur draxa and he's got a fluff cargo of empowered orbs, ready to be used in the darkest, most powerful ritual in athasian history. (all a guess on my part) - I assume sorcerer-kings send slaves to some camp, where the are kept under guards until Dragon arrives. I think slaves are moved in secret, over time, to remote locations and held in camps when it's nearing the time for the levy. Each city probably devotes a good size army to transport and safeguard the slaves. The dragon shows up with a large force of templars and soldiers and moves them to the deeper desert, at which time another large force arrives to take a portion back to the sea of silt slave hold and stick them on ships. The other half are used as I guessed above. While the dragon returns the empowered orbs to the camp for storage and gets new ones, the army that travels with him moves on to the next city-state, as directed by the dragon. (again, all a guess) Nobody pays attention to three or four vanished slaves, but disappearance of hundred could rise suspicions. But do guards know their purpose? Are the sacrificed with slaves or evacuated before Dragon comes? I think slaves are moved to remote locations as time passes, not all at once. And yes, I believe every templar and guard assigned to those slave camps knows the slaves are doomed. They probably don't know what the slaves are used for, but it's safe to assume they believe the slaves will die the worst death possible. Most people would probably rather be eaten by halflings or thrikreen than look upon the dragon, much less be in his presence. I'd go so far as to imagine some people simply die from sheer terror at the sight of the dragon, or go insane from fear.
#3 lagomorpprime Jul 08, 2010 13:29:24	The Crimson Legion mentions the Crater of Bones and later conversations make it clear that this is the holding pen for the levy to the Dragon. Urik just ships its levy out to a crater that they can't escape from and lets the Dragon do his thing, leaving behind a huge collection of bones.
#4 Pennarin Jul 08, 2010 14:30:13	The Crater of Bones is the local delivery and holding spot. There must be others, farther away, which we never heard about.
#5 king_cromag Jul 08, 2010 14:45:12	It has been awhile since I read the books but wasn't it more than just slaves. I remember raw matierals being part of the levy as well.
#6 Palladinae Jul 09, 2010 2:32:14	Honestly speaking I don't remember Dragon striding around Tyr Region with entourage of templars. I always imagined it as a solitary, if not hermit, creature, a harbinger of doom approaching each city once a year in solitude. In my view he would be more terrifying, than surrounded by bunch of servants. As far as I remember most of PP heroes don't know about levy, they learn of it from Tithian, did they? This means, levy is offered in secret, so slaves are smuggled out one by one, rather in large number. I imagine them concentrated, guarded, lured to the last moment they are going to construction works, until it is too late and Dragon approaches. Also, i'm not sure about "raw materials" king_cromag mentions. If I remember correctly, old defiling rules stated defiler draws energy from plants and animals, only dragons were able to collect it from humans. In that case such potent spells would require human energy, not ordinary.
#7 RalofTyr Jul 09, 2010 16:04:42	In practice, the Dragon's Levy isn't feasible; it's just too difficult logistically and in secret? The Dragon wouldn't waste his time collecting the slaves in person; his Templars must do it. That have to have some way to get across the Sea of Silt; if they used a vehicle; it possible, using the Estuaries, to collect from every city-state with each slave group only marching no less then 50 miles. How do you maintain secrecy? Why, how many guards to you need to guard a thousand slaves? one per twenty? Send 950 slaves plus 50 guards; there's your thousand slaves Mr. Borys!!!
#8 Pennarin Jul 09, 2010 19:39:37	In practice, the Dragon's Levy isn't feasible; it's just too difficult logistically and in secret? The Dragon wouldn't waste his time collecting the slaves in person; his Templars must do it. That have to have some way to get across the Sea of Silt; if they used a vehicle; it possible, using the Estuaries, to collect from every city-state with each slave group only marching no less then 50 miles. How do you maintain secrecy? Why, how many guards to you need to guard a thousand slaves? one per twenty? Send 950 slaves plus 50 guards; there's your thousand slaves Mr. Borys!!! IIRC the Dragon doesn't collect the slaves (albeit plenty of people in the community have made convincing arguments that some indeed are collected), he kills them on the spot. That spot is secluded and agreed upon by each SK. Templars, guards, even perhaps a small army detachment, accompany them to protect, prevent deaths or escapes, or raids on the group. It may well be that the escort never makes it back, even is meant to stay behind and die along with what they've witnessed. A few SK might have templars so well trusted they are informed of what will happen and thus make a quiet escape before all are slaughtered. For example, Dhojakt - Nibenay's son - is surely the one guy he sends along with the levy and expects to come back. I expect templars stay behind, are horrified by the slaughter, and then terrified when the Dragon moves in their direction as well, mopping up all observers.
#9 phoenix_m Jul 09, 2010 21:45:56	I thought some city's popilations knew, Gulg for example has a throw away line about how the Oba must sacrifice 1000 for the benifit of the greater city's survival - or something like that. I have a hard time thinking Balic doesn't know about the levy with the missing of 200 levy and sacking of Balic(what source is that from anyway).
#10 RalofTyr Jul 10, 2010 0:34:24	IIRC the Dragon doesn't collect the slaves (albeit plenty of people in the community have made convincing arguments that some indeed are collected), he kills them on the spot. That spot is secluded and agreed upon by each SK. Templars, guards, even perhaps a small army detachment, accompany them to protect, prevent deaths or escapes, or raids on the group. It may well be that the escort never makes it back, even is meant to stay behind and die along with what they've witnessed. A few SK might have templars so well trusted they are informed of what will happen and thus make a quiet escape before all are slaughtered. For example, Dhojakt - Nibenay's son - is surely the one guy he sends along with the levy and expects to come back. I expect templars stay behind, are horrified by the slaughter, and then terrified when the Dragon moves in their direction as well, mopping up all observers. Hmmm, in the Valley of Dust and Fire, it mentions that Ur-Draxa gets a fresh influx of slaves once a year. For a city the size of Ur-Draxa, a influx would have to be at least a few hundred. That more than the Dragon can carry.
#11 king_cromag Jul 10, 2010 1:47:37	I found the quote that mentions other things besides slaves in the levy. Unto the Dragon was rendered the tribute of 600 erdlus, 170 kanks, 30 mekillots, and 400 slaves. One hundred pounds of iron, 60 pounds of copper, and 20 pounds of gold were given unto the Dragon at that time as well. It is recorded that the beast was well pleased with the levy of Yaramuke and spared the city, in the sixth recorded Year of Kings Contemplation. The Scroll of Eibok, recovered from the ruins of Yaramuke taken from Valley of Dust and Fire page 58
#12 rkane909 Jul 12, 2010 14:40:35	This is taken from The Ivory Triangle. From The City-State of Gulg book ~"The single cultural ritual that cuts across the societies of all the city-states is the Dragon's Levy." ~"In Gulg, the people believe the Dragon is the one force that can endanger their home while the oba rules." ~"Every year 1,000 people are led into the salt flats by the oba's templars..." ~"Sacrifices are usually comprised of prisoners of war, criminals and captive slaves, though a few zealous citizens always join the group in a display of religious or patriotic frenzy." From The City-State of Nibenay book ~"The legends of the region suggest that a time will come when the city will not be able to provide servants to the Dragon. At that time , the springs will boil dry, the fields will turn to dust, the forest will wither and the walls of the city will crumble." This suggests that everyone in the tablelands knows about the Dragon's Levy and that 1,000 slaves are required. It's been a while since I've read the Prism Pentad, but I would have to assume the PP heroes knew about the levy before the death of Kalak and assumed that Tyr would no longer provide a levy after slavery was abolished. The revelation came from finding out that Tithian was still providing the levy in secret.
#13 Palladinae Jul 12, 2010 14:58:49	Well it's been long ago since I read Prism Pentad, moreover it was very, very poorly translated (believe me, I know what I'am saying, I work as a translator), but I seem to recall that heroes learn of Dragon's levy after Kalak's death and it is Tithian that tells them a story. We can assume people of Nibenay and Gulg know abut levy, Urik has it's own place of slaves' disposal. If people of Balic did not know, the have learned of levy in free year one. Still there i Draj and Raam, that are mysteries. While I don't like idea of Dragon followed by procession of templars, king_cromag's information convince me: there has to be somebody to oversee taken goods. Still, I prefer idea of Dragon approaching slaves and guards and singlehandedly taking their lifeforce and storing it in obsidian orbs that are in his swollen belly.
#14 Pennarin Jul 12, 2010 16:11:20	This is what's fantastic now, with the new edition and the setting reboot: you can cherry pick, you do what you want! People may or may not know how it works or what the levy is, depending on what you want.
#15 Rustmonster Jul 12, 2010 17:44:52	How did they collect that many slaves every year?
#16 turlough Jul 15, 2010 9:23:17	How did they collect that many slaves every year? If you are asking if they can handle the loss of 1000 people every year and still be sustainable, then the answer is yes because they are. I found data on population and made a spreadsheet on it and from what I could figure out, although I am no expert on this, they can either sustain it with a very slow growth rate (only one or two extra people per year for centuries and then growth) or they are gone within 50 years or so. Since they are still around, I assume they can. But, again, I am no expert on this. turlough
#17 RalofTyr Jul 15, 2010 23:49:44	According to this, there are about 9 million people living around the Tyr region; there should be one large city, 19 smaller cities, 105 towns and 17 thousand villages.