I would allow Goliaths so that there can be Half-Giants, but in general would I be able to limit options to the Essentials books and still run DS? Or would there be too much missing? I understand that this would entail limiting psionics to Wild Talents only.
All the changes being done to the online errata, are in the direction of Essentials.
It remains to be seen exactly, but
I suppose playing 4e only + DS
OR (not and) playing Essentials + DS + maybe PHB3 psi stuff
can be made to work.
What'd you spend your money on?
For that matter, why anyone would want to run an essentials only Dark Sun is beyond me. Why not use everything you have available to you? It is not like essentials is replacing older Dark Sun products. It is just a new set of splat material...
"The psionic power source is pretty integral to Dark Sun."
I agree that Psionics are important to the setting, but don't believe you need PCs to play Psionic classes. Same with the Primal power source.
Is the Warlord not in the essentials? I assumed it was because it's from the PHB1... but I'm wrong all the time. If that's the case, it would be bad...
"The psionic power source is pretty integral to Dark Sun."
I agree that Psionics are important to the setting, but don't believe you need PCs to play Psionic classes. Same with the Primal power source.
He's not in the red box, but I think he's in the Heroes of Something manual.
The red box should be everything from PHB1 - the Warlord + the Druid, iirc.
Commissar, consider waiting for the additional classes before Essential'ing up Dark Sun. Or consider adding an NPC healer or allow a non-Essential class to the party. Either way, Dark Sun is not really the best campaign setting to go with the essentials material. There are plenty of additional rules (like Themes) that kind of contradict the simplicity of the Essentials products.
I would say you could run Forgotten Realms, since it doesn't exactly deviate from the core setting much, but that Dark Sun would be trickier, since it does play around with stuff.
The Red Box contains the classic four: Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard, but only partial builds and only a few experience levels. It's totally an intro kit, nothing more. The first Heroes book contains the rest of the information for those classses. The second Heroes book will give Paladins, Rangers, Druids, and Warlocks.
So if you want a leader in your Dark Sun campaign, you either have to allow Clerics in, or allow non-Essentials classes in.
That aside, did you have a particularly compelling reason to only allow Essentials classes? I'd be tempted to let PHB3 classes in, since psionics are so important.
From everything I've read, Essentials are just different builds of certain class types. You can run them together, mix and match, whatever you want. You just choose what build you're starting with at the beginning of character creation. It's like deciding what kind of Ranger you want to play (that's how it was explained to me).
That is exactly what it is. Which is why I find this "can I run Dark Sun with only essentials" thread very weird.
In my opinion, no. You won't have psionic classes, and you won't have any non divine leaders. Dark Sun works better if you play the game as it is intended, with ALL of the classes from ALL of the products, minus the divine power source classes.
From everything I've read, Essentials are just different builds of certain class types. You can run them together, mix and match, whatever you want. You just choose what build you're starting with at the beginning of character creation. It's like deciding what kind of Ranger you want to play (that's how it was explained to me).
That is exactly what it is. Which is why I find this "can I run Dark Sun with only essentials" thread very weird.
In my opinion, no. You won't have psionic classes, and you won't have any non divine leaders. Dark Sun works better if you play the game as it is intended, with ALL of the classes from ALL of the products, minus the divine power source classes.
With that answer then, why would one want to just run Essentials? Why not just let players do whatever they wish?
And yeah, Dark Sun without psionics sounds like it would be no fun at all, especially since you can't use Divine classes.
With that answer then, why would one want to just run Essentials? Why not just let players do whatever they wish?
And yeah, Dark Sun without psionics sounds like it would be no fun at all, especially since you can't use Divine classes.
My reply will probably be less than flattering, but I am willing to bet it has something to do with the rather unfortunate attitude that has been inundating these boards lately. Fans of 4e finally got the fighter, rogue, and other such classes they have always really wanted to play. Finally, fighters and rogues with actual powers! Except, a lot of older edition fans didn't like that. So WotC listened to consumer feedback and created a set of new builds for existing 4e classes that cater to the nostalgic sensibilities of the player's that were not happy with the first batch of 4e classes. These classes don't replace those classes. These classes can be played alongside those classes. These new products are just nostalgia flavored splat books for 4e. So now everyone can be happy, because everyone can play what they like, right? Wrong. Instead everyone comes to the table (or at least these forums) with the unfortunate attitude that it is not enough that they can play what they want to play, everyone else has to also. 4e fans complain that this is a 4.5 edition (never mind that all the old 4e books can continue to be used) because these new classes are not formatted the way they like. Others want to run essentials only games in which people who want to use older 4e class builds may not. I find both sides a little frustrating and silly. Why not just let people play what classes they want to play? Why not just avoid purchasing a splat book if it doesn't cater to your sensibilities?
Right now I have some stuff: PHB1, PHB2 (a gift), DMG, MM. It wouldn't be too hard to expand that into the basics of Dark Sun (just add PHB3 and the DS stuff as far as I can tell).
What I find appealing about the idea of Essentials is that it is currently a "small" game. I like small games. I like the original White Box (or Woodgrain) D&D because it is small; same with the Moldvay B/X edition. Same with the old Empire of the Petal Throne. AD&D and especially AD&D2 get too expansive for me... too many various options and needless widgets. 3rd Edition and 3.5 are the worst editions to me. Character differentiation comes from characterization, not powers and feats. I care how the player plays, not what special moves the character has. I care about testing player skill (ability to make shrewd decisions in play) and not about optimized builds.
So I like Dark Sun but I'm intrigued by the idea of Essentials, at least at the start, being rather more limited in scope. A fighter is one or two builds (one of which hits things for a living, which is neat... marking seems like a pain to me), etc. I don't like option upon dreary option spinning off into infinity, ready to be spreadsheeted by DPS-calculating gamedrones; I like a neat, tidy little game that fits into a neat, tidy little package. Maybe that's because I play other stuff besides D&D... I don't need D&D to be the end-all, be-all; I just need it to do its own little thing cleanly and efficiently.
I have the rules in a tidy package (I can run a game off-the-cuff with nothing but the DM screen). My players don't cart in a library when we play (they usually just bring a character sheet, maybe their own dice).
I judge a game's "smallness" on what anyone can do under the rules (for example, 3.x's feinting, disarming, etc. makes that game "big.") 4e moves those things into specific powers that follow the same basic formula. My main circle of concern is being able to read the powers, since when it comes up I just look at the character sheet or power card. The game itself is small (5 character sheets and a DM screen is a playable minimum) but still potentially complex when in action, like the White Box.
Dark Sun works better with certain options, but a bunch of new players can certainly play it with just the Essentials products. Telling them they have to stick to Essentials doesn't make sense, though.
in the end the rules are just an recommendation and no one has to use everything. You can take what you like and dismiss the other things. The most important thing is the fun you get out of the game (DM and Players alike). I don't think that anyone here says that Dark Sun can be played only the way he thinks it should. I got the impression that the people here give us some suggestions and information what made their DS game more enjoyable. Some groups like restrictions and have no problem with it, other don't, to each to their own. ;)
I will probably be stoned for this but if you went only essentials and wanted options you could do what they did in the original Dark Sun set in 2nd ed and reflavor divine power to elemental power and worship the elements. This will give you a leader option, not be hard to implement, and would be true to the mechanics of the old game.
Bring out the stones... I picked up some iron pyrite on my last vacation and its nice and shiney... or would you prefer the old quartz pieces we had laying around.
Mentioning essentials in anything but a negative light is gonna land you with a reputation for being a retrovert who feeds brain drain to the martial classes (and the players who like them) and teaches the nerds versus jocks is a good battle to take up or wants to nerf all the old classes to shore up interest in the new ones and hid martial healing ....... and if you take any of this seriously I appologize my tone of voice just isnt translating to key strokes that well.