Economy and trading - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Economy and trading

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
khorne37
Dec 17, 2010 16:59:33
So let me set it up. Post Kalak reign my group has acquired an estate by rooting out a noble who refused to give up his slaves. It is an outlying estate and farming is in the near future. I would like to see them expand and maybe at some point buy a trading caravan because then they could go anywhere with a good excuse. But to get to that point, I need a simple economy for trading produce and then maybe purchasing a winery and finally a caravan. Prices for most of these items are unavailable and I am very bad at economics. Any help would be awesome.
#2
bialaska
Dec 17, 2010 19:11:27 Well, I've set up a game where I'm using a rather different system than average. It is a very low magic world, so running with the inherent bonuses and giving out powers as rewards, rather than magic items.

Anyway, in my world barter is very much alive and very much used by players, in fact it is the only thing used. There's no such thing as 'money', since that's not eadible or really useful. Instead values are split up in several categories:

Food - Plant or Bread
Food - Meats
Raw materials - Wood
Raw materials - Water
Finished goods - tools
Finished goods - weapons
Misc - Slaves
Misc - Animals

Each player has a certain Value Points in each of these categories. This is the ACTUAL value of the item, though it may be modified depending of circumstances.

Each merchant/city have different prices for all of that stuff. Each time the group enter the city, he'll roll 1d10. On 1-5 the prices are lower than average. On 6-10 prices are higher. Then 1d6 is rolled and each is a 5% increment.

For instance the players enter Nibenay and the GM then makes some rolls. For bread and plant a 7 is rolled for higher or lower and a 5 is rolled, which means the prices of these are 25% higher (both on buy and sale). At the same time a 1 is rolled for slaves, which means prices are lower and the rolled 2 means that slaves are worth 10% less for both sale and buy.

So the party arrives to Nibenay. The street guy asks around and checks up on the latest sales (rolls a streetwise) and finds out a general idea about the market. They sell their 200 VP worth of bread and plant, which gives them 250 VP of other goods. They now invest in slaves, a cheap commody for various reasons and buys slaves for the 250 VP. This means they end up having around 270 VP slaves, so a net profit of 70 VP.

It is up to the GM to expain why this is happening, whether it's an accident or not or simply natural change.

So far it has been great for both me and my players. The barter system adds a great rolplaying perspective, as they try to get the best deal, though it is quite complex and may be hard for a GM to handle. But still we love the fact that there's no such thing as GP, the players need to figure out a way to trade their weapons to water and it's not necessarily a fair trade for them.
#3
xsv-violence
Dec 18, 2010 1:00:18 I'd just go with skill challenges. Use Diplomacy, Nature, Streetwise, Bluff, Thievery and the like. Don't get overcomplicated unless you really want to run a business...
#4
lord_rock
Dec 19, 2010 20:07:19 Cool idea. Pretty simple. I might try it out if my players decide to go for commerce. Let them do skills challenges to adjust the roll up or down 1 or to reroll and I think it works rather well.
#5
Kye_Tyrad
Dec 20, 2010 10:43:45 The canon Dune Trader source book from the 2nd ed Dark Sun went into the details of trading enough that it might help you get this started. Starting a trading option could also lead you into some intrigue with the local trading houses and competition in its own right.
#6
khorne37
Dec 20, 2010 11:43:25 I played in a thief campaign where all the thieves died except myself and it became a merchant campaign since the thives guild failed to take root in the city with the death of all the others. It started out with an inn/tavern and expanded from there going to trading by boat and finally a small merchant house. One of the most rewarding story arcs I was ever involved in. Trying to recreate a bit of that for my group.
#7
syrric
Dec 20, 2010 21:14:43 dune trader is the best resource for ya.. one thing about a winery would be that it wouldnt use grapes on athas.. grapes take too much water to grow.. so they'd have to make wine from kank nectar or a cactus fruit of some sort
#8
khorne37
Dec 21, 2010 11:12:13 Yeah I looked at Dune Trader and wine is usually made from cactus. I also didn't find Dune Trader all that helpful except for flavor.
#9
syrric
Dec 21, 2010 14:07:42 there should be charts of what goods each city had in surplus and what they needed..
#10
khorne37
Dec 22, 2010 10:53:35 Indeed there is but the charts are general.
#11
Raddu76
Dec 22, 2010 13:12:15 For more detailed info check out Trade Lords:
athas.org/products/tradelords
#12
BRJN
Dec 23, 2010 17:37:05 You might want to just say that the farm makes a profit 60% of the time, and how much profit/loss is based on how your d100 roll went. If the PCs don't want to get into details, have their hired Manager send them a note every month that N Survival Days (or 5*N GP) are on credit with / withdrawn from House Vordron. Pick the maximum amount N based on a treasure parcel for their level; this will supplement their income, not replace adventuring.

Keep track of the cumulative total, in case the farm loses money for a long time; creditors might come to call. If the PCs have enemies, the notes of indebtedness might even come into the hands of Houses Tsalaxa or Rees.

If the PCs DO want to get into details, they can work through strikes, bad weather, desert raiders, pesky bill collectors, saboteurs / agents of foreign influence, hiring better employees, and anything else that would make a good plot hook.

Hmmm ... my DS character wants to become a Caravan Master. I might use this to let HIM invest in other people's businesses.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 khorne37 Dec 17, 2010 16:59:33	So let me set it up. Post Kalak reign my group has acquired an estate by rooting out a noble who refused to give up his slaves. It is an outlying estate and farming is in the near future. I would like to see them expand and maybe at some point buy a trading caravan because then they could go anywhere with a good excuse. But to get to that point, I need a simple economy for trading produce and then maybe purchasing a winery and finally a caravan. Prices for most of these items are unavailable and I am very bad at economics. Any help would be awesome.
#2 bialaska Dec 17, 2010 19:11:27	Well, I've set up a game where I'm using a rather different system than average. It is a very low magic world, so running with the inherent bonuses and giving out powers as rewards, rather than magic items. Anyway, in my world barter is very much alive and very much used by players, in fact it is the only thing used. There's no such thing as 'money', since that's not eadible or really useful. Instead values are split up in several categories: Food - Plant or Bread Food - Meats Raw materials - Wood Raw materials - Water Finished goods - tools Finished goods - weapons Misc - Slaves Misc - Animals Each player has a certain Value Points in each of these categories. This is the ACTUAL value of the item, though it may be modified depending of circumstances. Each merchant/city have different prices for all of that stuff. Each time the group enter the city, he'll roll 1d10. On 1-5 the prices are lower than average. On 6-10 prices are higher. Then 1d6 is rolled and each is a 5% increment. For instance the players enter Nibenay and the GM then makes some rolls. For bread and plant a 7 is rolled for higher or lower and a 5 is rolled, which means the prices of these are 25% higher (both on buy and sale). At the same time a 1 is rolled for slaves, which means prices are lower and the rolled 2 means that slaves are worth 10% less for both sale and buy. So the party arrives to Nibenay. The street guy asks around and checks up on the latest sales (rolls a streetwise) and finds out a general idea about the market. They sell their 200 VP worth of bread and plant, which gives them 250 VP of other goods. They now invest in slaves, a cheap commody for various reasons and buys slaves for the 250 VP. This means they end up having around 270 VP slaves, so a net profit of 70 VP. It is up to the GM to expain why this is happening, whether it's an accident or not or simply natural change. So far it has been great for both me and my players. The barter system adds a great rolplaying perspective, as they try to get the best deal, though it is quite complex and may be hard for a GM to handle. But still we love the fact that there's no such thing as GP, the players need to figure out a way to trade their weapons to water and it's not necessarily a fair trade for them.
#3 xsv-violence Dec 18, 2010 1:00:18	I'd just go with skill challenges. Use Diplomacy, Nature, Streetwise, Bluff, Thievery and the like. Don't get overcomplicated unless you really want to run a business...
#4 lord_rock Dec 19, 2010 20:07:19	Cool idea. Pretty simple. I might try it out if my players decide to go for commerce. Let them do skills challenges to adjust the roll up or down 1 or to reroll and I think it works rather well.
#5 Kye_Tyrad Dec 20, 2010 10:43:45	The canon Dune Trader source book from the 2nd ed Dark Sun went into the details of trading enough that it might help you get this started. Starting a trading option could also lead you into some intrigue with the local trading houses and competition in its own right.
#6 khorne37 Dec 20, 2010 11:43:25	I played in a thief campaign where all the thieves died except myself and it became a merchant campaign since the thives guild failed to take root in the city with the death of all the others. It started out with an inn/tavern and expanded from there going to trading by boat and finally a small merchant house. One of the most rewarding story arcs I was ever involved in. Trying to recreate a bit of that for my group.
#7 syrric Dec 20, 2010 21:14:43	dune trader is the best resource for ya.. one thing about a winery would be that it wouldnt use grapes on athas.. grapes take too much water to grow.. so they'd have to make wine from kank nectar or a cactus fruit of some sort
#8 khorne37 Dec 21, 2010 11:12:13	Yeah I looked at Dune Trader and wine is usually made from cactus. I also didn't find Dune Trader all that helpful except for flavor.
#9 syrric Dec 21, 2010 14:07:42	there should be charts of what goods each city had in surplus and what they needed..
#10 khorne37 Dec 22, 2010 10:53:35	Indeed there is but the charts are general.
#11 Raddu76 Dec 22, 2010 13:12:15	For more detailed info check out Trade Lords: athas.org/products/tradelords
#12 BRJN Dec 23, 2010 17:37:05	You might want to just say that the farm makes a profit 60% of the time, and how much profit/loss is based on how your d100 roll went. If the PCs don't want to get into details, have their hired Manager send them a note every month that N Survival Days (or 5*N GP) are on credit with / withdrawn from House Vordron. Pick the maximum amount N based on a treasure parcel for their level; this will supplement their income, not replace adventuring. Keep track of the cumulative total, in case the farm loses money for a long time; creditors might come to call. If the PCs have enemies, the notes of indebtedness might even come into the hands of Houses Tsalaxa or Rees. If the PCs DO want to get into details, they can work through strikes, bad weather, desert raiders, pesky bill collectors, saboteurs / agents of foreign influence, hiring better employees, and anything else that would make a good plot hook. Hmmm ... my DS character wants to become a Caravan Master. I might use this to let HIM invest in other people's businesses.