I will start. Absent a 4E Dark Sun, I will use 3E.
4E. If that does not come to fruition, I will continue to convert the overall feel of the game and interactions of fluff into the HERO System.
Your doing a Hero System conversion! COOL!
That said i would deffinatly buy 4E Darksun material. And judge it first hand before i decided for or against. I Loved Darksun in 2nd, i like it just as much in 3.5. But i do not like 4E core rules at the moment, so am apprehensive as to weather Dark Sun would work in 4E without enough changes to make it unrecognisable. In any case even if i dont use it, there may likely be 'something' in the product(s) i 'can' make some use of
Let's be honest here, compared to 3.5, 4e is pick up and play for most who are new to the roleplaying hobby. I'm having a heck of an easier time 'converting' ahem I meant 'convincing' completely knew people to pick up and actualy play D&D: Literaly everone and their girlfriends.
Any chance I have of actualy playing Darksun will be linked to its availability in 4e. Now, I'm a huge fan of Darsun since 91, but I simply can't spend the time doing conversions or even getting my already confused players to attempt the intricaties of 3.5.
I'll buy the 4e books as soon as they come out.
4e is pick up and play for most who are new to the roleplaying hobby. I'm having a heck of an easier time 'converting' ahem I meant 'convincing' completely knew people to pick up and actualy play D&D: Literaly everone and their girlfriends.
This is a good assesment of 4E
When i first picked up 4E core books it felt like i was picking up my old red box of D&D from 1980 or whenever that was. It is a simple game. Its lack of depth is wielded like an attribute and 'new' players certainly would be better off with 4E over previous.I have allways been a hardcore roleplayer (if that is such a term) where combat is a rare occurance (infact some of my group would consider having to do combat as meaning they failed at something). Just getting in and play-acting the character and going through a kind of story/plot line which is sometimes freeform and sometimes more story driven. 4E is far less effective at dealing with these kind of sessions than 3.5/2nd/GURPS/Runequest which we like most. However 4E i would say is better than all the above on tactical combat.
This is all kind of off topic and i apologise
But Dark Sun i have allways considered a roleplay focused setting with a certain atmosphere. It will be a challenge i think to pull off the same atmosphere i (still) use Dark Sun with... in 4E, and likewise i think most of pro 4E people who try the Dark Sun setting would be put off by the more complex aspects of the setting, or just ignore them completely. I would 'love' to see how they do 4E Dark Sun regardless and as i said above, id still buy it just because its Dark Sun and there will likely be something in there i can use
As it currently stands, I'll likely use 3.5/Pathfinder. I wouldn't mind 4E, but I'll have to see how they handle the unique aspects of Dark Sun, as well as the psionics rules. Sadly, also, I doubt they will put out a Dark Sun Monster Manual, and considering the unique ecology, it would be something I would need for any Dark Sun game I would want to run. I will happily buy anything they do put out for Dark Sun though. Who knows, they may surprise me. ;)
Their technique would probably be to have the Monsters Manual released in the same year as the Dark Sun campaign setting contain a large plethora of Dark Sun Flora and Fauna.
I have allways been a hardcore roleplayer (if that is such a term) where combat is a rare occurance (infact some of my group would consider having to do combat as meaning they failed at something).
So have I, however...
Just getting in and play-acting the character and going through a kind of story/plot line which is sometimes freeform and sometimes more story driven. 4E is far less effective at dealing with these kind of sessions than 3.5/2nd/GURPS/Runequest which we like most. However 4E i would say is better than all the above on tactical combat.
I don't agree with you. I think 4e is far more effective at dealing with role-playing than 3.5 or 2e ever were. Its combination of narrative story driven techniques instead of simulationist techniques, simple elegant on the fly "doing something that is not in the rules" template (page 42), skill challenge system (though I needed to house rule my DC numbers to fix their system as written), hard coded earning of XP rewards for non-combat encounters and situations, and an emphasis on the "DM's should say yes" rhetoric of the DMG, as well as an emphasis on "DM's should create on the fly rewards for narrative efforts on the part of the players," makes the system feel far more like a role-playing system, to me, than 3e or 3.5 edition ever did. In the RAW of 3e/3.5 you pretty much only earned XP for combat. In 4e, you can have a skill challenge which will earn you as much XP on a success as a combat encounter, and a combat encounter of equal XP value which the players must face if they fail on the skill challenge. Finally, combat can be something that players must deal with for FAILING at something.
This is all kind of off topic and i apologise
See, to me, Dark Sun was always a healthy mix of high-octane combat mixed with role-playing. I think the 4e tactical combat resolution system mixed with 4e far larger emphasis on narrative and role-playing would be ideal for a Dark Sun setting.
On the release, I had restrictions about the 4e. But after start playing a Forgotten Realms Campaing with a group of old friends from school I've changed my mind. 4E is a hybrid of role-playing and an exciting strategy game where everyone in the party contributes in an equal manner.
So 4E is much better than 3.5 in every aspect. Looks like the magic of RPG is back, the enthusiasm with RPG came back... something that we hadn´t in 3.5.
3.5 was good but it always stayed a far behind 2e in terms of diversion. 3.5 had something missing. 4E don´t.
Would be willing to debate the 4E vs 3.5 perhaps, but not in this thread as it doesnt belong here
As to Dark Sun in 4E, Combat i did find a little more important in Dark Sun than in other settings, and i am looking forward to at least reading the conversion to 4E even if i would likely not play it in that edition.
For example the Races, i would be interested to see if they remain true to the 2nd edition (where the races are vastly different to the core equivilents) or if they keep them as the core races with very minor changes (or import others not native to Dark Sun but are now core races)
I am hoping they update the 2nd edition races to 4E, rather than use the 4E races and convert them to the setting.
Classes; I would be interested in how they do the Defiler/Preserver mechanic as the 2nd edition mechanic for this was something i was never happy with and changed considerably in my own games. I would also like to see the Gladiator class, if anything in Darksun could be done better in 4E its the Gladiator, and i anticipate the 4E conversion to capture that class a lot better.
The World; This is a tricky one as they will clearly change it on a massive scale, I hope they set it a good time in the future after Revised. But at the same time i dont want too much of the essence of what made the origional one so good to be lost.
If WotC will release superb Dark Sun stuff and if they don't mess up with the setting as they did with the Forgotten Realms and if THEY pay ME for playing it and if they aim a gun at my head, if all this happens, I still won't use 4E rules.
Who cares? Then you are not a paying customer, and your opinion doesn't matter one way or another. Sorry, but this sort of ridiculous blind anti-4e rage pisses me off. "Even if they made the best product in the world, I wouldn't play for my life, because its 4e... Grrrrr!!!" Ridiculous.
Who cares?
Maybe the one who started the thread. At least he didn't ask: "All STILL paying customers (that is all those of you who will certainly switch to 4E, if WotC rerelease DS with 4E rules), will you still switch, if DS isn't rereleased with 4E rules?"
If you don't care, maybe you shouldn't read polls that don't explicitly ask the STILL paying customers.
Hey, calm down. Sometimes jokes are funny even if they are about something that one treasures.
You didn't crack a joke, you just made a ridiculous statement.
Maybe the one who started the thread. At least he didn't ask: "All STILL paying customers (that is all those of you who will certainly switch to 4E, if WotC rerelease DS with 4E rules), will you still switch, if DS isn't rereleased with 4E rules?"
If you don't care, maybe you shouldn't read polls that don't explicitly ask the STILL paying customers.
Its one thing to say "I am going to stick to 3e," or even "I am going to stick to 3e because I don't really like 4e." A number of others said just that on this thread. That answers the original posters poll. But, you didn't. The original poster didn't write a poll that asked "would you play 4e, why or why not, and under what ridiculously stupid circumstances would you give up your life not to play 4e?" He asked, and I quote:
If WOTC does not release Dark Sun for 4E, will you be playing Dark Sun in 3E or 4E. Or even 2E. Let us have an official show of hands.
I will start. Absent a 4E Dark Sun, I will use 3E.
So, if WotC does not release a 4e Dark Sun product, would you still play Dark Sun in 4e, or would you play it in 3e or even 2e?
See the difference between that and: If WotC releases the best Dark Sun product ever, and someone holds a gun to your head to play it, would you give up your life not to play?
What you said has nothing to do with the poll or this thread one way or another. It was just a stupid, pointless, idiotic jab at 4e. Honestly, if you were actually put into that situation, and you really refused to play 4e, you would deserve the obvious outcome. If someone puts a gun to my head I'll play whatever game they like, as long as it gets me out of the situation unharmed. The most ridiculous part about your statement is not that it insults 4e (in fact, it really doesn't do that good of a job at insulting 4e, as it doesn't illustrate that anything about 4e is sub-par), but that it insults both you (for your lack of survival instinct) and the value of human life. It was just an all around really stupid comment made in really bad taste.
So, if WotC does not release a 4e Dark Sun product, would you still play Dark Sun in 4e, or would you play it in 3e or even 2e?
(Bold writing of "still" not in the original quote.)
Lame try! There wasn't this "still" in the original question. If it were, the poll would have indeed been totally uninteresting for me (and then e.g. Kamelion's post would have been superflous as well). But...well, it wasn't there...
And concerning the fact that you read my statement literally (especially the part with the gun, but all other parts as well): Never ever try to enter the wide parts of non-literal communication - everything said there will seem ridiculous to you and reading it will only be frustrating for you.
(Bold writing of "still" not in the original quote.)
Lame try! There wasn't this "still" in the original question. If it were, the poll would have indeed been totally uninteresting for me (and then e.g. Kamelion's post would have been superflous as well). But...well, it wasn't there...
Lame try yourself. The still is implied by the original posters post, because he specifically asked if people would play a 4e Dark Sun game if a 4e Dark Sun product would NOT be released, and clearly indicated that his response, him choosing to play 3e Dark Sun, relies on the "absent" of a 4e Dark Sun product. His post clearly implies that if there were to be a 4e Dark Sun product released, he would probably use that, and it explicitness states he is not really interested in hearing what people would play if a 4e Dark Sun product were to be released (because that is not his question). At the very least, the poster is obviously trying to avoid the question of what Dark Sun product you would use if a 4e Dark Sun product is released, probably to avoid an edition war.
You were TOTALLY 100% off base, off topic, and in ill taste with your response. The truth is, Kamelion's post was off topic as well, but at least he was not being insulting and ridiculous while he was doing it. Saying that you would continue to run a game using your system of preference even if a setting is released in someone else's system of preference is one thing. Saying that you find someone else's system of preference to be so awful and abhorent that you would rather be shot in the head then play it, even if the setting released for it was the most amazing product ever published, is quite another.
First: I don't care who started this flame skirmish but both of you knock it off.
Second: Nobody asked either of you for you opinion, this was a multiple choice question not an essay, the answers are:
1) Use 4th edition to replicate the genre.
2) Stay with 3/3.5 to replicate the genre.
3) Use the 3.5 Athas.org material.
4) Use Pathfinder.
5) Go back to playing 2nd edition.
6) Use some other system.
Now knock it off, apologize to each other, apologize to us (for having to put up with your kindergarten like attitudes), and go off and play your game of choice.
Thank You.
Now knock it off, apologize to each other, apologize to us (for having to put up with your kindergarten like attitudes), and go off and play your game of choice.
So you are allowed to complain when someone does something you don't like, but no one else can? Its a kindergarten like attitude for someone else to say that something someone has done has offended them, but you can call people kindergarten kids and its different?
You are not getting an apology. However, you will get a "hello pot, meet kettle. He's black."
P.S. Here is a handy little definition:
Hypocrisy
hy·poc·ri·sy
1. the practice of claiming to have standards or beliefs that are contrary to one's real character or actual behavior
2. an act or instance of this
What he did offended me. I said as much. I don't feel I have anything to apologize for. And if I do, then your very post puts you into the same category.
Cyber-Dave & REAL_System
apologize to each other, apologize to us (for having to put up with your kindergarten like attitudes)
Well starting to insult two people who show wrong behaviour is a good way that they won't stop it - well, it might be bad behaviour as well. Nevertheless I will stop.
Besides the point discussed by the other one an me concerning the question of the poll I think was a relevant one. And because I think that everything is said about this so that everyone can draw his own conclusions, I don't have to say anything further about it.
All the other parts e.g. about non-literal communication was indeed not relevant and could be said in private communication, and I regret that you had to read 'em. Sorry for that.
Cyber-Dave: What part of "I don't care" didn't you get? You two work it out (else where, please), and leave the rest of us out of it. Alright.
...but at least he was not being insulting and ridiculous while he was doing it.
I promise I'll try harder next time!
:P
Cyber-Dave: What part of "I don't care" didn't you get? You two work it out (else where, please), and leave the rest of us out of it. Alright.
Shouldn't you be working this out with me elsewhere, and leaving the rest of the forum posters out of it?
As far as I can tell you are doing little more than propagating at the current moment in time. Its like I said, hypocrisy. I have already stopped. It is you that are continuing.
I promise I'll try harder next time!
:P
Excellent. :D
. Now, everyone bickering- please STFU! ......and get back to the original topic.This juvenile feuding crap reminds me of the days when Pringles was trolling the boards......heh
Amen
Arthur: You´re a looney.
I play Athas.org 3.5. Open to try new systems.
2e usually, and 3e for the http://athas.org rules playtesting.
Us too.
No interest at all for a 4E, since with all other gaming we only use 2E rules with some house modifications.
Having said that my vision of DarkSun has evolved a great deal over the years so no matter what happens I'll be hard at work; I'll be doing it all with 4e (along with some inevitable conversions too of course).
Ultimately rules are just a guide - even if all we had were 1st ed rules and pointy sticks, DarkSun would still be awesome.
That said, I'd either go with 2E or house rule my own stuff for 4E (only a few bits are missing really).
While I am happy that fans such as Athas.org have put out material over the years. They're not professional game designers and I can't look at their stuff without cringing.
Ouch...