Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Badasterisk Aug 09, 2011 8:01:12	My conundrum: PC is a Wizard/Cleric (water)… who incessantly uses fire-effect arcane spells (Burning Hands, Flaming Sphere, and Scorching Ray- and never less than two of these memmed).   Do you see this as a problem?  If so, how would you handle it; if not, why is it not an issue? Thanks, Bad*
#2 DontEatRawHagis Aug 09, 2011 10:13:59	Talk to him outside of the game and ask if he wants to convert to Fire. If he says no ask if he has considered all the things that fire can do for him? How much fire will help his daily life. If he decides not to, ask how it would affect his character RP and Gameplay wise if he was to be water instead of fire. If he does decide to convert to Fire make it a big deal in game. One session where they meet a fire spirit that has noticed the player's ability.
#3 Kurmudgeon Aug 09, 2011 17:12:45	Yeah, I would ask him why his character is water based if most of his spells are fire based. What benefit does he get for the focus on water?
#4 Pennarin Aug 09, 2011 17:47:28	Hopefuly I won't step on anyone's toes with this comment: Players that pull stunts like that, without doing it for the RP to begin with, I find quite tiresome. I'm wondering if they even understand the concept of a character's goals, orientation, and theme. It is weird.
#5 DontEatRawHagis Aug 09, 2011 18:45:26	Hopefuly I won't step on anyone's toes with this comment: Players that pull stunts like that, without doing it for the RP to begin with, I find quite tiresome. I'm wondering if they even understand the concept of a character's goals, orientation, and theme. It is weird.  From my perspective it seems like he is just doing it because the fire based powers are more powerful than water based ones. Add on from my previous suggestions: If he says that the reason why he is using fire based attacks instead of water based is because of gameplay then maybe ask if he would mind reflavoring the powers to be more water based.  Burning Hands, Flaming Sphere, and Scorching Ray turn into Freezing Hands(Cold), Storm Cloud(Thunder), and Roaring Wave(Water/Cold). Or if he still want's to do fire damage (Keep burning hands but instead of doing fire it is just heat), Boiling orb, and Searing stream.  Note: I am bad at giving names to new spells.
#6 naxel Aug 09, 2011 19:19:58	Say the spells do ice damage instead of fire
#7 therion666 Aug 15, 2011 17:02:12	Say the spells do ice damage instead of fire Any character who becomes a priest of one element, shouldn't even be able to access the opposite element really, as the elements do not mix well (or at all), Fire-Water, Earth-Air. In the old edition the prospective priest must be accepted by the element to become a priest. The priest of water must stay underwater until it accepts them (and they don't drown) but as you can imagine water priests are rare. Priests of fire actually step into a bonfire and offer themselves to the element (which hurts like hell until the element accepts them), priests of earth must bury themselves alive and IF the element accepts them, they are pushed to the surface to breath. The priests of air are the oddest lot as they must fling themselves from a high point (high enough to be fatal generally) and if the air accepts them, they float to the group unharmed...if not.....SPLAAATT!!! There was also other paraelementals like the Sun which was Fire\Earth combined, Scorching mist Fire\Air. Again it was generally a test of faith for them to be accepted (Sun for example would see the person walking naked in the full sun for as long as they could (getting burned\blistered) then the element would let them survive the ordeal. Healing\blessings from the priests varied, Earth was a bit paralysing as their wounds solidified for a moment(Slowed maybe if a mechanic is required), Air was a cooling breeze, Water was a quenching drink....Fire hurt...a lot. The descripion was something like 'it felt like molten lava was being poured into the wound'.
#8 Alphastream Aug 15, 2011 17:36:21	If so, how would you handle it; if not, why is it not an issue? I would talk to the player. I would do it either over e-mail or in person (either before or after a session) depending on their personality. I would explain that this violates the setting somewhat and ask them to consider some options: Reskin those powers to be about water Change to other powers, perhaps with my help to bolster inferior powers I would take into account how cheesy the PC is. If they are heavily optimized I would be less likely to suggest bolstering powers (they don't need the boost). I am generally transparent about this line of thinking. "Hey, honestly, your PC is plenty strong. You can afford to find less optimal powers. If you make the switch and find that there are problems with survival, let's revisit the issue".
#9 naxel Aug 15, 2011 18:13:50	I'm saying that a RAW level 1 Wizard spell which deals fire damage can just have its keyword changed from "fire" to "ice" (something generally associated with water in fantasy settings) and re-word the fluff accordingly
#10 Kurmudgeon Aug 15, 2011 23:32:24	Personally, I would be a bit hesitant about simply re-skinning the powers. This is mainly because I see the fire based association and its powers, being all about damage, whereas the association with water is a little more mixed. The water based theme seems more about controlling and healing than raw damage output. If the player in question wants to pump out damage, he can switch his elemental association.  Anyway, that's just my take on it.
#11 Badasterisk Aug 26, 2011 13:15:44	Thanks for everyone’s input, very insightful. So, here’s my plan: From the SRD- Underwater Environment Rules: Fire: Nonmagical fire (including alchemist’s fire) does not burn underwater. Spells or spell-like effects with the fire descriptor are ineffective underwater unless the caster makes a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level). If the check succeeds, the spell creates a bubble of steam instead of its usual fiery effect, but otherwise the spell works as described. The idea is to have the PC learn that he can tweak his fire spells in this manner (with appropriate water consistency based on standard spell description- steam, boiling water, etc.) whenever he likes (meaning he can do it when not submerged in water- check still required). I already have a planned underwater encounter for which these rules will be applied (assuming he tries to cast a fire spell underwater).  Hopefully the PC can put things together and make an attempt to do the same while out of water. If the PC doesn’t try to cast in this manner while out of water, I’m going to have him encounter/save/befriend a water mephit, who, after seeing the PC cast fire spells, will express his issues (ie., my perspective) with a water cleric evoking fire.  I think, however, the PC will actually be taught how to modify his fire spells by another arcane casting mentor-type character (which fits within my existing upcoming adventure easily).  I like that this compromise fits within the rules while still retaining RP and suspension of disbelief, it doesn’t require any revamp/edit of the character, and it allows me to not have to be a naysayer to my player (he stated during character creation, after I’d expressed issues/doubts, “Don’t be that GM, man.  We just want to have fun!"). Comments…? Bad*