Goliaths as half-giants? i say no! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Goliaths as half-giants? i say no!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
trigun8168
Apr 17, 2009 0:27:07 personally i was hoping they would make an easy fix to the whole half giant thing but at only 7-8 feet tall are good at jumping and get +1 to will to me it just doesnt feel like the half-giant. wondering what every one else thinks. edit: i only mentioned those features because they are the ones in general that for me do not fit.
#2
mouthymerc
Apr 17, 2009 7:17:47
personally i was hoping they would make an easy fix to the whole half giant thing but at only 7-8 feet tall are good at jumping and get +1 to will to me it just doesnt feel like the half-giant. wondering what every one else thinks. edit: i only mentioned those features because they are the ones in general that for me do not fit.

If or when they do campaign books for Dark Sun (I like to think when) they may very well come up with an alternative for half-giants rather than use goliaths. I don't mind them as is, though, so I'm good either way.
#3
Cyber-Dave
Apr 17, 2009 13:00:16 Honestly, the only thing that doesn't sit 100% well with me (when using Goliaths as Half Giants) is their racial ability. It feels to "stone" themed and not "giant" themed. Everything else about them though, perfect. +2 Strength/Con, yes please. Skill bonuses of +2 athletic and nature? I don't know if he nature fits, but the athletics is perfect. +1 bonus to will? The powers name should be renamed to call upon the whole "multiple personalities" aspect of half giants, but it certainly fits. Its hard to target the will of a creature when you never really know what personality, alignment, or perspective, it will have on any given day. Powerful athlete? Certainly gets the feeling of a half giant across. Even stones endurance, while its my least favorite aspect of the Goliath as "half-giant," is not terrible for the role.

As for the only 8 feet tall bit, I think everyone around here pretty much knows that one way or another, that is what Half-Giants are going to be ret-conned as. I don't think we will ever see large sized PCs again. And we know we will not see oversized PCs. Its really not that big of a deal. Its a change in a single number. It still leaves them far more massive then humans and other average medium sized creatures. Nothing about the fluff really changes, only one semantic specific.

Until an actual half-giant race is released, I think using the Goliath should work fine. To be honest, a re-flavored version of the Goliath would probably work for an actual published product as well.
#4
big_goon
Apr 17, 2009 18:42:02 On a similar topic, what about using Goliaths as Muls instead?

+2 STR/+2 CON, +2 Athletics, languages including common and Dwarves makes sense. Stone's endurance likewise makes sense (even the title!). The 2 rolls for Athletics checks also is reasonable.

Height and Weight are appropriate.

The Goliath feats are also okay, although the names probably should be changed to something more Mul-like.

Get rid of the Giant language option and change +2 Nature to something else (Intimidate, Endurance) and I'd think the Goliath would be Dark Sun playable.
#5
trigun8168
May 02, 2009 14:32:39 dave- your definetly right about never seeing a large pc. being large would make any ability that hits adjacent enemies WAY to powerfull. youd go from hitting up to 6 targets to hitting 12!! with the whole +1 will.... i guess on second thought it does make sence. still needs a different class ability though imo.something that grants temp hp or maybe something that makes them stay alive longer.like they still take death rolls but stay conciouse and can keep fighting but with penalties maybe.
big goon- hmmmm never thought about that but yeah maybe that could work.
#6
Tectuktitlay
May 02, 2009 17:17:05 I agree, no Goliath replacing Half-Giant would be preferable to me. As for replacing Stone's Endurance, I'd like to see Half-Giants have NO encounter ability, and instead simulate their large size not through Oversized, but rather by gaining a +1 reach bonus for melee attacks from the get go. Powerful? Sure, it's pretty good, but not out of line in my opinion, especially if the race has less racial features inherent to them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 trigun8168 Apr 17, 2009 0:27:07	personally i was hoping they would make an easy fix to the whole half giant thing but at only 7-8 feet tall are good at jumping and get +1 to will to me it just doesnt feel like the half-giant. wondering what every one else thinks. edit: i only mentioned those features because they are the ones in general that for me do not fit.
#2 mouthymerc Apr 17, 2009 7:17:47	personally i was hoping they would make an easy fix to the whole half giant thing but at only 7-8 feet tall are good at jumping and get +1 to will to me it just doesnt feel like the half-giant. wondering what every one else thinks. edit: i only mentioned those features because they are the ones in general that for me do not fit. If or when they do campaign books for Dark Sun (I like to think when) they may very well come up with an alternative for half-giants rather than use goliaths. I don't mind them as is, though, so I'm good either way.
#3 Cyber-Dave Apr 17, 2009 13:00:16	Honestly, the only thing that doesn't sit 100% well with me (when using Goliaths as Half Giants) is their racial ability. It feels to "stone" themed and not "giant" themed. Everything else about them though, perfect. +2 Strength/Con, yes please. Skill bonuses of +2 athletic and nature? I don't know if he nature fits, but the athletics is perfect. +1 bonus to will? The powers name should be renamed to call upon the whole "multiple personalities" aspect of half giants, but it certainly fits. Its hard to target the will of a creature when you never really know what personality, alignment, or perspective, it will have on any given day. Powerful athlete? Certainly gets the feeling of a half giant across. Even stones endurance, while its my least favorite aspect of the Goliath as "half-giant," is not terrible for the role. As for the only 8 feet tall bit, I think everyone around here pretty much knows that one way or another, that is what Half-Giants are going to be ret-conned as. I don't think we will ever see large sized PCs again. And we know we will not see oversized PCs. Its really not that big of a deal. Its a change in a single number. It still leaves them far more massive then humans and other average medium sized creatures. Nothing about the fluff really changes, only one semantic specific. Until an actual half-giant race is released, I think using the Goliath should work fine. To be honest, a re-flavored version of the Goliath would probably work for an actual published product as well.
#4 big_goon Apr 17, 2009 18:42:02	On a similar topic, what about using Goliaths as Muls instead? +2 STR/+2 CON, +2 Athletics, languages including common and Dwarves makes sense. Stone's endurance likewise makes sense (even the title!). The 2 rolls for Athletics checks also is reasonable. Height and Weight are appropriate. The Goliath feats are also okay, although the names probably should be changed to something more Mul-like. Get rid of the Giant language option and change +2 Nature to something else (Intimidate, Endurance) and I'd think the Goliath would be Dark Sun playable.
#5 trigun8168 May 02, 2009 14:32:39	dave- your definetly right about never seeing a large pc. being large would make any ability that hits adjacent enemies WAY to powerfull. youd go from hitting up to 6 targets to hitting 12!! with the whole +1 will.... i guess on second thought it does make sence. still needs a different class ability though imo.something that grants temp hp or maybe something that makes them stay alive longer.like they still take death rolls but stay conciouse and can keep fighting but with penalties maybe. big goon- hmmmm never thought about that but yeah maybe that could work.
#6 Tectuktitlay May 02, 2009 17:17:05	I agree, no Goliath replacing Half-Giant would be preferable to me. As for replacing Stone's Endurance, I'd like to see Half-Giants have NO encounter ability, and instead simulate their large size not through Oversized, but rather by gaining a +1 reach bonus for melee attacks from the get go. Powerful? Sure, it's pretty good, but not out of line in my opinion, especially if the race has less racial features inherent to them.