You who already DM or you who want to DM in this scenario, as you were meant to introduce our group to the scenery and adventure, especially because the world has a different theme, and will not be, should not be the same to save the princess!
People I would like to know from you how to enter heroic characters in DS? I can not conceive the idea that there are no heroes in DS! my current DM says the scene is very chaotic for that, but then why do something there! I do not understand, as I was told, and the heroes who killed Kalaq, why they fought Kalaq, why did not what to do? I do not understand why people have this need to find that there are no good people in the world and especially in DS!
You who already DM or you who want to DM in this scenario, as you were meant to introduce our group to the scenery and adventure, especially because the world has a different theme, and will not be, should not be the same to save the princess!
There are heroes in Dark Sun. However they usually are focusing more on survival of day-to-day problems to be truly like heroes in other settings. Dark Sun is a brutal setting -- Civilization is controlled by the supreme, and very evil leadership of corrupt spellcasters changing themselves into dragons. The wilderness is filled with day-to-day hardships like a lack of water, extreme heat, and very aggressive & psionic flora and fauna. The races are, in many cases, at odds with each other -- halflings are known for eating other sentient races, elves and thri-kreen tend to be at odds with each other (something about thri-kreen finding elvish meat very tasty), muls & half-giants are often raised and owned as slaves, typically by human masters, etc. There are bandits and marauders wandering the deserts looking for their next set of supplies. Life has very little value, other than the value placed at the slaver's block.
With situations like this, it is hard, very hard to be truly heroic. Often, survival is far more crucial than being heroic. Athas is a cruel, harsh world, and one that will leave you for dead in a blink of an eye.
That said, there are heroes in Athas. Tyr was "freed" by heroes. It does happen. While most people in Dark Sun are always out for some survival angle in everything, there are some that do what they feel is right, because it is right. However, oftentimes, they might go to an extreme. It is probably unheard of for someone to leave an opponent alive rather than killing them. It isn't like the enemy can be taken to some authority to be punished, because the authorities are all very corrupt and everyone knows it. It just becomes far simpler to slit their throats than try and re-educate them.
'Good' Heroes will exist, however rare. And they will have to struggle to survive.
OBS. I'm sorry i don't write english very well!
rsrsrsr .... about the princess was so way of saying that the adventure by itself are not alike! I also do not think so beings exist in the chaotic world of DS, even in small quantities there are heroes on DS! I would like to know is how to mount a plot that will bring together such people, since from what I've seen is consensus that people are naturally selfish for DS nYou say something else!
OBS. I'm sorry i don't write english very well!
The common tactic is for them to all start out as slaves and/or gladiators. Everyone starting out by being slaves and having to get free, is the Dark Sun equivalent to a group of adventurers ending up together in a tavern to start a campaign in other settings.
rsrsrsr .... about the princess was so way of saying that the adventure by itself are not alike! I also do not think so beings exist in the chaotic world of DS, even in small quantities there are heroes on DS! I would like to know is how to mount a plot that will bring together such people, since from what I've seen is consensus that people are naturally selfish for DS nYou say something else!
OBS. I'm sorry i don't write english very well!
There is a secret organization called the Veiled Alliance that seeks to fight back against the curropt sorcerer-kings. The adventurers could start out as part of that group or be asked to join.
In this optic, the Veiled Alliance mentionned by Band2 fights the evil Sorcerer-Kings and their destructive defiler lackeys, and so fulfills the role of a hero organization, but the Dark Sun twist is that they carry this fight...by any means possible. It is a terrorist organization. A real one. People die. Innocent people.
Dark Sun can be whatever you want it to be, but know that it's supposed to be a world where evil has won and carved out the place, a harsh world where people are themselves harsh, and where many game elements (races, classes, flavor) are turned upside down.
In this optic, the Veiled Alliance mentionned by Band2 fights the evil Sorcerer-Kings and their destructive defiler lackeys, and so fulfills the role of a hero organization, but the Dark Sun twist is that they carry this fight...by any means possible. It is a terrorist organization. A real one. People die. Innocent people.
Very much so. All of the supposed "good guys" push to the extremes. The Veiled Alliance being one of them. And, because the bad guys have won, all that is left is the extremes.
anyways, sorry for the long rant, bottom line is nothing comes without cost.
I don't understand why it is so often times that in harsh and brutal settings there is almost always this everyman for himself attitude. People say, you have to do so in order to survive. Though is it so hard to believe that trying to work together as a group and help one another promote survival, and also if everyone is trying to exploit and screw everyone over, then how are the various village or tribal level communities still around in such settings?
Not everyone on athas is a blood thirsty cutthroat. But they're common enough to make everyone suspect everyone else. When it comes to settlements like villages, I'd say it's a few different reasons the villages work.
1, like minded individuals join together for protection. These folks will be very weary of outsiders and what kind of trouble they may bring to the community, but once you are accepted, you could probably live a semi-peaceful life among the villagers.
2, A powerful individual or group runs things and people rely on them for protection. These are varied. Sometimes the leaders are abusive and sometimes they're fair. But the power-figures keep the others safe, so no one is willing to rise up against them unless they have someone equally or more powerful to depend on.
There are a ton of examples, but those two will do for now.
[edit] This is a situation where you want to stay alive, so you suspect everyone you don't trust because more often than not, people who trust easily, end up broke, starving or worse.
Now go out there, free some slaves, and become Big-Damn Heroes!tm
I don't understand why it is so often times that in harsh and brutal settings there is almost always this everyman for himself attitude. People say, you have to do so in order to survive. Though is it so hard to believe that trying to work together as a group and help one another promote survival, and also if everyone is trying to exploit and screw everyone over, then how are the various village or tribal level communities still around in such settings?
It is less "every man for himself", and more that people aren't tied to altruistic, lofty ideals like a code of honor and the like, because the world of Athas requires more flexibility when it comes to moral choices. Further compounded by the fact that the bad guys won, and therefore everyone tends to be a bit more jaded in Athasian societies than other worlds. There is no gods around to help people uphold themselves to higher standards. All there is, are corrupt sorcerer-kings, even more corrupt templarates, corrupt merchant houses, and the only quasi-beacon of hope are a group of terrorists who have no particular qualms about killing innocents if it hinders or inhibits defilers, templars, or the sorcerer-kings. It is a world where life has very little value, people are often sold as slaves, forced to do hard labor, or worse thrown into a gladiator arena to fight to the death for the amusement of their peers. I mean, there are races in Athas that don't really mind eating other races (Halflings, Thri-Kreen).
The setting isn't that everyone is cut throat or out to get you, just that you typically won't find the stereotypical lawful good paladin concept wandering around (for very long). People are jaded, wary, and very cautious. The common folk fear magic -- as they have been told it destroyed the world, and every time someone defiles it becomes apparent that it isn't just a made-up story. The people are suspicious of newcomers (for fear that they will come to kill or enslave them), distrust authority (like you'd trust the templars or sorcerer-kings!), but most of all do what they must in order to survive. If it means stealing that piece of meat from the market, snatching a purse full of ceramic coins, or hiding in a dark corner to avoid a templar patrol, it doesn't matter.
Outside the cities, life is even more wild. The heat of the sun, difficult terrain, and lack of water are surefire to make most people miserable. Even worse, most animals and plants are carnivorous -- a result of the significant lack of rainfall (how else would you expect most of them get their water requirements?) So raise the level of caution that is found within the city-states up several notches -- how do you fight a predator that can also mess with your mind? Not fun.
All in all, there just isn't much room for altruistic, good-hearted, happy-go-lucky people. That's why. Sure, people might band to gether for the protection of their community/village/tribe... but it is more often than not, purely motivated on self-preservation instincts rather than the "common good".
I don't understand why it is so often times that in harsh and brutal settings there is almost always this everyman for himself attitude. People say, you have to do so in order to survive. Though is it so hard to believe that trying to work together as a group and help one another promote survival, and also if everyone is trying to exploit and screw everyone over, then how are the various village or tribal level communities still around in such settings?
The irony is that some of the societies that make the harsh and brutal (tribal thri-kreen, halflings, elves) all act in exactly the manner you describe.
Congrats! You've discovered the underlying anti-objectivist, primitivistic thematic elements of almost every post-apocalyptic setting!
All in all, there just isn't much room for altruistic, good-hearted, happy-go-lucky people. That's why. Sure, people might band to gether for the protection of their community/village/tribe... but it is more often than not, purely motivated on self-preservation instincts rather than the "common good".
I agree with what Xlorep has to say, but I would like to include an exception to the rule: adventurers. I for one, think that adventurers (and select other combative groups like Gladiators, Mercenaries, Rangers, maybe even Veiled Alliance, etc) have a unique perspective on any world, including Athas. Because of the need for cooperation and trust in combat, these groups need to be slightly more altruistic than the general population. Working together in this fashion, player characters tend to develop a different perspective of the world than your average Athasian. 1) They learn that they can move up in the world and become more influential and powerful without relying on others; 2) their way of life depends heavily on cooperation and trust; 3) they tend to have an outsider's persective on the world because of their travelling; 4) they tend to have knowledge and experience of unique histories/places/people; 5) they are role played by players who live in modern societies.
Now, none of this is absolute. There are plenty of selfish and backstabbing player characters. I'm just saying that the "job" of an adventurer necessitates a certain degree of altruism that is less common in Athasian society in general.
This small village is hidden away up an obscure side canyon in the foothills of the Ringing Mountain and thats the way the citizens like it. From the outside, it looks like the long-deserted ruin of an ancient castle, and many travelers no doubt pass right beneath it without a second thought. Walis sits atop a high spire of rock that can only be reached by scaling a five-hundred foot cliff, by flying, or by being hoisted in a cargo-bucket that the natives operate for that purpose. Those who do know of Walis's (sic) true nature must stand at the bottom of the cliff and ask to be lifted, and the natives will oblige only if the individual is known to them.
The reason for all this secrecy and security is that Walis sits atop the only gold mine in Athas that I know of. Lest you get any ideas about getting rich quickly, however, I should warn you that all commercial transactions in the village are handled by the Tomblador merchant house, which also pays a small company of Defilers to live in the village and protect it. Like the iron mine of Tyr, the gold mine here gives up its precious treasure only at great cost in sweat and blood.
Couldn't the players' party be that small company of defilers? Wouldn't that be different?