How I plan to run Dark Sun; is this too restrictive? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

How I plan to run Dark Sun; is this too restrictive?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
mrbloome
Sep 01, 2010 22:03:50
So, I’m gonna attempt to run a 4e Dark Sun game and I’m a little anxious about the whole ordeal because while many of my former players believe me to be an excellent DM, we mostly play over AIM and such. As I’m now at a college with a proper D&D club and I’ve harvested a buttload of miniatures (over 200, plus some Gamesworkshop paint to make sure everything looks extra spiff and some sand for the basing as well) I feel like I could put on a well produced and good campaign.

But here’s where I get a little antsy, I have some things that I plan to inform the potential players of beforehand (even prepared a little mission statement) on what I intend to give them and what I is restricted and what isn’t.

See, I want the game to have a real feeling of horror and barbarism when someone sees a defiler or any user of magic, regardless if they be Templar, Sorcerer-King, or Veiled Alliance preserver. To the party, arcane magic should be a terrifying thing, something they should steel themselves against when they have to slay the caster.

So in polite enough terms, I intend to ask the party to generally avoid Arcane classes unless they intend to play a Templar, a Noble, or someone who will eventually join the Veiled Alliance (they can have the theme, but I want some formal induction into the society in game).

And though Dark Sun states that “Psionics are commonplace”, I’d still like to think of them as rare enough that people will not screw around with a psioncist. I convey that Psionics are the tools of nobles, wilders, and others who, while not hated by society, are not openly loved and adored. They are the kind of people who are sent away to training schools in the city-states, or the gladiator who fights with a blade but can go all Combustion Man on a kirre if he’s feeling the mojo.

So, I essentially say, if you’re a Psionic character don’t use it to just screw with people. Psionics are an art, and I’m sure in such a brutal world, certain groups would probably lobotomize reckless psionicists. So discipline is needed to harness psionic power, unwavering discipline or pure unadultered emotion.

As for Primal characters, if you’re going to be one, go with one of the more traditionally primal races. Halflings, thri-kreen, non-city state Half-giants, Gulgans, nomads, et cetera. I’m not against primal power and I’m not as restrictive here as I would be to say Arcane characters.

I’m not banning any classes or power sources, just make sure the story fits the character and if they have any issues, to see me about it.

I’ll ask them about paragon paths and epic destinies before they begin to get close to them, so that way the Hordemaster’s can start garnering admirers and the Dragons can begin finding clues to the reagents needed for ascension.

I would personally love a more Martial party so as to keep a sort-of Conan the Barbarian vibe to the game (knowing my geeky tush, I’d probably make a few of the ancient ruined cities be carved out of strange green stone…at least Bodach anyway.) with a lot of deeds and duties done for the best of reasons: vengeance, spite, greed and glory.

I dunno, I think I’ll probably hold off on starting any campaign until I have a greater feel for the sort of people I want in the game, but this is just the sorta thing I intend to tell them/show them when the time comes. Until then, I’m gonna rock out to some Basil Poledouris and ask you guys if I’m being too restrictive on the party.

I just want to give them the best, most immersive, and brutal gaming expierences I can offer.

Tl;dr: Is this too restrictive?
#2
CALEBROBERTS
Sep 01, 2010 22:30:36 You want them to have fun right?
I wouldnt limit charachter creation very much; so what if there is a goliath psion. could be fun to have some atypical characters.
#3
mrbloome
Sep 01, 2010 22:42:15 Oh yeah, well I'm not saying no to anything. It's more of a "this is what I'd prefer, but if you can make it fit that works too".

I've just been in too many games where a group of travelling knights ended up becoming crazy magic-chucking samurai mass murderers; so I feel like maybe, just maybe, if I say what I intend at the start, there will be less of a chance of things going out of hand.

Not that the samurai mass murderer mess happened on my DMing, but the fear of such an occurence happening is the real cause for all this.

#4
naxel
Sep 01, 2010 22:55:17 It's your game, so run it how you'd like to. Personally, though, I find it a bit restrictive (but I'm the kind of guy who might allow a gnome PC...but not a cleric). Just make sure the Players are having fun; if one of them wants to be a wizard then let him. You can still drive home the theme of dangerous arcane magic without limiting Player creativity or opportunity.

The Dark Sun campaign setting has certain themes built into it and they're built into it while taking into consideration that, hey, maybe you'll have a dragonborn in your party or a templar or a half-elf rogue wilder.

If a Player is an arcane caster it's up to you to 1) make sure they're having fun while still 2) building stories and themes around the fact that he'll have to conceal his powers in urban areas. Tempt him with the power to defile but let him know that he could be arrested or worse, and even his own PC allies might feel uncomfortable around that magic.

In regards to psionics, give the PCs a quest to go save those soon-to-be-lobotomized psionicists. The Sorcerer-kings (and other unsavory individuals and organizations, perhaps of your own design) have been known to perform more than questionable, immoral experiments on subjects - both arcane and psionic. If you have a psionic Player in your group then have him discover an old friend is in that distasteful situation! You can change the theme of psionics in your game how you want but I respectfully think you shouldn't limit a Player's character choices.

All in all, it's your game but your first goal is to make sure Players are having fun. Don't worry about your own fun because (hopefully) seeing your Players enjoying themselves will make you enjoy yourself. At the very least, the themes of foul arcane magic, dangerous mental experiments, and even outcast spirit-speakers are inherent to the setting and with little extra effort on your part you can still emphasize them even with a party full of warlocks, psions, and wardens
#5
Bera
Sep 01, 2010 23:05:49 I think its perfectly fine to state the roleplaying consequences of racial and class choices, but I'm not a fan of being told certain races, classes, or combinations are 100% off limits. PCs are the stars of the show, so why not let them be unique? Its cool to request martial classes/themes (or martial hybrids), but demanding that can be a bit harsh and I think players should be able to play a character they enjoy, as long as they're a little flexible about the exact implementation to fit with the story and the party.

At the same time, make sure you hold your NPCs to the standards you're proposing. Wasteland races (Elf, Thri-kreen, and Halfling) should be rare in cities, rare races (Eladrin, Tiefling, Dray) shouldn't be encountered often at all, magic-using classes should be uncommon in general, with some types being rarer than others.

By all means, though, discuss your vision for the campaign with the players, and they'll probably be more excited about doing what you want, and might suggest a couple small revisions that will make the game better for everyone.

Rather than saying "no", a "yes, but..." is often best.
#6
tokalla
Sep 01, 2010 23:09:13 Rather than state these as restrictions, perhaps present this information as the manner you percieve Athas to be (and will be running it as). That way your player's can see your vision of the world, but still allow them to feel free to make exceptions without feeling too much pressure against something they may prefer to play. This also has the benefit of giving any players unfamiliar with Dark Sun a bit of the feel for it before leaping into creating their first character. Some of my best character backgrounds have been created by DMs expressing their perspective of the setting before I created my character (sometimes due to inspiration from their viewpoint, other times due to me finding a way for my unusual character to exist in their world). In the end, I have never seen anything wrong with a DM explaining to me how the game world they will be running tends to work before I sat anything to paper (and I have yet to have a PC complain to me for doing so in any of the games I have run throughout the years).
#7
mrbloome
Sep 01, 2010 23:32:31

Rather than saying "no", a "yes, but..." is often best.

Yup, I probably should've stated more clearly that none of these are demands. Moreso requests to keep in with the theme of the world, a dark, brutal, horrific place.

I know a friend who may wish to join as either a warforged (which I have a plethora of nifty explanations for, none needing metal) or as a Cleric of Badna.

And well, I'm thinking of plausibilities for the second, and it's not hard. But I'd rather he play a thri-kreen or a mul than a warforged or a cleric.

I'm not going to stop him, but I will ask that he makes it work out in a way that preserves the integrity of the setting.

And yes, I look forward to the group's input prior to starting. And considering the pushback of the Character Builder, I have plenty of time.

Edit: And I forgot to say thanks. So, thanks guys.
#8
Pashalik_Mons
Sep 02, 2010 2:54:35 When taking this up with your players(i'll use the warforged/cleric as an example) I'd shy away from saying, "I'd rather you played a thri-kreen or mul" and and say "So how did a warforged come to exist on athas?" or "But Badna is a false god, where are your powers coming from?" and try to work out the answers with him. This will help keep his character within the vision of athas, and if he can't find a good explanation, he might suggest trying something different on his own. Letting on that you're not into him playing a 'forged or cleric might get his back up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mrbloome Sep 01, 2010 22:03:50	So, I’m gonna attempt to run a 4e Dark Sun game and I’m a little anxious about the whole ordeal because while many of my former players believe me to be an excellent DM, we mostly play over AIM and such. As I’m now at a college with a proper D&D club and I’ve harvested a buttload of miniatures (over 200, plus some Gamesworkshop paint to make sure everything looks extra spiff and some sand for the basing as well) I feel like I could put on a well produced and good campaign. But here’s where I get a little antsy, I have some things that I plan to inform the potential players of beforehand (even prepared a little mission statement) on what I intend to give them and what I is restricted and what isn’t. See, I want the game to have a real feeling of horror and barbarism when someone sees a defiler or any user of magic, regardless if they be Templar, Sorcerer-King, or Veiled Alliance preserver. To the party, arcane magic should be a terrifying thing, something they should steel themselves against when they have to slay the caster. So in polite enough terms, I intend to ask the party to generally avoid Arcane classes unless they intend to play a Templar, a Noble, or someone who will eventually join the Veiled Alliance (they can have the theme, but I want some formal induction into the society in game). And though Dark Sun states that “Psionics are commonplace”, I’d still like to think of them as rare enough that people will not screw around with a psioncist. I convey that Psionics are the tools of nobles, wilders, and others who, while not hated by society, are not openly loved and adored. They are the kind of people who are sent away to training schools in the city-states, or the gladiator who fights with a blade but can go all Combustion Man on a kirre if he’s feeling the mojo. So, I essentially say, if you’re a Psionic character don’t use it to just screw with people. Psionics are an art, and I’m sure in such a brutal world, certain groups would probably lobotomize reckless psionicists. So discipline is needed to harness psionic power, unwavering discipline or pure unadultered emotion. As for Primal characters, if you’re going to be one, go with one of the more traditionally primal races. Halflings, thri-kreen, non-city state Half-giants, Gulgans, nomads, et cetera. I’m not against primal power and I’m not as restrictive here as I would be to say Arcane characters. I’m not banning any classes or power sources, just make sure the story fits the character and if they have any issues, to see me about it. I’ll ask them about paragon paths and epic destinies before they begin to get close to them, so that way the Hordemaster’s can start garnering admirers and the Dragons can begin finding clues to the reagents needed for ascension. I would personally love a more Martial party so as to keep a sort-of Conan the Barbarian vibe to the game (knowing my geeky tush, I’d probably make a few of the ancient ruined cities be carved out of strange green stone…at least Bodach anyway.) with a lot of deeds and duties done for the best of reasons: vengeance, spite, greed and glory. I dunno, I think I’ll probably hold off on starting any campaign until I have a greater feel for the sort of people I want in the game, but this is just the sorta thing I intend to tell them/show them when the time comes. Until then, I’m gonna rock out to some Basil Poledouris and ask you guys if I’m being too restrictive on the party. I just want to give them the best, most immersive, and brutal gaming expierences I can offer. Tl;dr: Is this too restrictive?
#2 CALEBROBERTS Sep 01, 2010 22:30:36	You want them to have fun right? I wouldnt limit charachter creation very much; so what if there is a goliath psion. could be fun to have some atypical characters.
#3 mrbloome Sep 01, 2010 22:42:15	Oh yeah, well I'm not saying no to anything. It's more of a "this is what I'd prefer, but if you can make it fit that works too". I've just been in too many games where a group of travelling knights ended up becoming crazy magic-chucking samurai mass murderers; so I feel like maybe, just maybe, if I say what I intend at the start, there will be less of a chance of things going out of hand. Not that the samurai mass murderer mess happened on my DMing, but the fear of such an occurence happening is the real cause for all this.
#4 naxel Sep 01, 2010 22:55:17	It's your game, so run it how you'd like to. Personally, though, I find it a bit restrictive (but I'm the kind of guy who might allow a gnome PC...but not a cleric). Just make sure the Players are having fun; if one of them wants to be a wizard then let him. You can still drive home the theme of dangerous arcane magic without limiting Player creativity or opportunity. The Dark Sun campaign setting has certain themes built into it and they're built into it while taking into consideration that, hey, maybe you'll have a dragonborn in your party or a templar or a half-elf rogue wilder. If a Player is an arcane caster it's up to you to 1) make sure they're having fun while still 2) building stories and themes around the fact that he'll have to conceal his powers in urban areas. Tempt him with the power to defile but let him know that he could be arrested or worse, and even his own PC allies might feel uncomfortable around that magic. In regards to psionics, give the PCs a quest to go save those soon-to-be-lobotomized psionicists. The Sorcerer-kings (and other unsavory individuals and organizations, perhaps of your own design) have been known to perform more than questionable, immoral experiments on subjects - both arcane and psionic. If you have a psionic Player in your group then have him discover an old friend is in that distasteful situation! You can change the theme of psionics in your game how you want but I respectfully think you shouldn't limit a Player's character choices. All in all, it's your game but your first goal is to make sure Players are having fun. Don't worry about your own fun because (hopefully) seeing your Players enjoying themselves will make you enjoy yourself. At the very least, the themes of foul arcane magic, dangerous mental experiments, and even outcast spirit-speakers are inherent to the setting and with little extra effort on your part you can still emphasize them even with a party full of warlocks, psions, and wardens
#5 Bera Sep 01, 2010 23:05:49	I think its perfectly fine to state the roleplaying consequences of racial and class choices, but I'm not a fan of being told certain races, classes, or combinations are 100% off limits. PCs are the stars of the show, so why not let them be unique? Its cool to request martial classes/themes (or martial hybrids), but demanding that can be a bit harsh and I think players should be able to play a character they enjoy, as long as they're a little flexible about the exact implementation to fit with the story and the party. At the same time, make sure you hold your NPCs to the standards you're proposing. Wasteland races (Elf, Thri-kreen, and Halfling) should be rare in cities, rare races (Eladrin, Tiefling, Dray) shouldn't be encountered often at all, magic-using classes should be uncommon in general, with some types being rarer than others. By all means, though, discuss your vision for the campaign with the players, and they'll probably be more excited about doing what you want, and might suggest a couple small revisions that will make the game better for everyone. Rather than saying "no", a "yes, but..." is often best.
#6 tokalla Sep 01, 2010 23:09:13	Rather than state these as restrictions, perhaps present this information as the manner you percieve Athas to be (and will be running it as). That way your player's can see your vision of the world, but still allow them to feel free to make exceptions without feeling too much pressure against something they may prefer to play. This also has the benefit of giving any players unfamiliar with Dark Sun a bit of the feel for it before leaping into creating their first character. Some of my best character backgrounds have been created by DMs expressing their perspective of the setting before I created my character (sometimes due to inspiration from their viewpoint, other times due to me finding a way for my unusual character to exist in their world). In the end, I have never seen anything wrong with a DM explaining to me how the game world they will be running tends to work before I sat anything to paper (and I have yet to have a PC complain to me for doing so in any of the games I have run throughout the years).
#7 mrbloome Sep 01, 2010 23:32:31	Rather than saying "no", a "yes, but..." is often best. Yup, I probably should've stated more clearly that none of these are demands. Moreso requests to keep in with the theme of the world, a dark, brutal, horrific place. I know a friend who may wish to join as either a warforged (which I have a plethora of nifty explanations for, none needing metal) or as a Cleric of Badna. And well, I'm thinking of plausibilities for the second, and it's not hard. But I'd rather he play a thri-kreen or a mul than a warforged or a cleric. I'm not going to stop him, but I will ask that he makes it work out in a way that preserves the integrity of the setting. And yes, I look forward to the group's input prior to starting. And considering the pushback of the Character Builder, I have plenty of time. Edit: And I forgot to say thanks. So, thanks guys.
#8 Pashalik_Mons Sep 02, 2010 2:54:35	When taking this up with your players(i'll use the warforged/cleric as an example) I'd shy away from saying, "I'd rather you played a thri-kreen or mul" and and say "So how did a warforged come to exist on athas?" or "But Badna is a false god, where are your powers coming from?" and try to work out the answers with him. This will help keep his character within the vision of athas, and if he can't find a good explanation, he might suggest trying something different on his own. Letting on that you're not into him playing a 'forged or cleric might get his back up.