Ideas for Dark Sun 4e

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Jan 30, 2009 4:46:35
I know that there are several thread dealing with aspects of a forth edition version of Dark Sun, but I have several ideas I eant to present together and not spread among several threads.

Divine classed: Based on the fact that the druid will not a divine class but a primal class and that athasian clerics (excluding templars) resemble the normal druids more than the normal cleric, I think that all divine classes should be templar.

Defilers: Defiling should be a class feature of all arcane classes grating the ability to power arcane rituals through defiling instead of using material components. The defiling radius (and damage) should be based on the level of the ritual. Additionally defiling should be an encounter power which allows to reuse an used encounter or daily power.

Races:
The racial features of nearly all races have to be customised to resemble those of the original setting.
There is the problem of those 'new' races Dragonborn, Eladrin, Tiefling, Drow (FR), Genasi (FR), Shifter (E), Warforged (E), but some of them could fit into the setting:
Eladrin could be seen as the original Elves who are stranded on Athas and cut off from the Feywild. Most of them became the athasian Elves we know, but some of them still live in hidden communities and have kept much of their original culture.
Genasi should not be a race of its own but like the original Genasi offsprings of a human and a being from the elemental chaos.
The same but with devils and demon should apply to the Tieflings.
Drow could be seen as Elves/Eladrin who escaped the genocide by hiding underground.
Dragonborn could be seen as third generation Dray.
But there are also some races missing: Half Giants, Muls, Thri-Kreen from the original setting and Aarakocra and Pterrans from the expanded and revised setting.

Background:
I think that they should advance the timeline for at least a hundred years with the sorcere-kings ruling those cities who have lost theirs in the past, recreating the original setting without removing the Prisma Pentad from history. That passage of time could also explain the appearance of the new races.
#2

trigun8168

Jan 30, 2009 22:44:10
heres how my campaign runs. 300 years after prism pentad as paizo had it set but with a few changes on top of what paizo did.

SORCERER KINGS- abalche-re was never killed by sadira but was run out of raam when dregoth stormed the city. she now lives in the ruins of guestinal along with the second generation dray who dregoth cast away after his failure to ascend. he blamed them for his failure and they now serve abalache-re.
sadira became sorcerer queen of tyr but allows the city to stay a free state and even allows peserver magic. somehow through the magic she gained from the pristine tower she has also gained the ability to grant spells but did not realize it until many years later.(stole this from Zar. thanks!)
As paizo Andropinos came out of the black early but instead of with an army of meanads he arrived with an army of Drow who had hoped to expand lolths influence but are now trapped here with no way of contacting her.
The oba of gulg secretly became a avangelion.(also stolen)
Nibenay had personally gone into the black spine mountains and rid athas of the githzerai threat but since his return has not left his temple.
And finally one of Borys' high templars had escaped from ur draxa before the storm was created and since then has become a dragon of weak power and has taken over waverly as there "sorcerer queen"

RACES: dragonborn- after casting away his dray dregoth created the 3rd generation dray and was even able to grant them a breath attack.
Teiflings- during his attempt at godhood the planar gate was destroyed but not before a group of demons escaped through the portal. over the last couple of centuries they had breed with many humans and elves and teiflings are popping up more and more and are seen with great distrust.
Drow-as above.
genasi- when dregoth tried to scend he tore a hole into the elemental chaos and many clerics were infused with pure elemental power. there offspring were the first genasi and over the centuries they have become quite the norm.
the rest of the races from 4ed i wont be using.im currently compliling info from myselve and other sources and re-reading the original DS content and will eventually be putting it all together into one file. would love to see ideas from all around.
#3

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 01, 2009 4:33:31
Additional ideas:

Both Dragon and Avangion should become epic paths for arcane and psionic classes which have to multiclass into a class with the other power source.

Rules for piecemeal armor are really needed.
#4

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 01, 2009 6:27:03
Another post from me at the same day...

Some of Paizo's ideas were weak, as if they did not read the manual.

Dregoth's attack on Raam and his creation of undead servants does really not fit into his character. As I've already written I would give him an army of dragonborn.

Raam should stay a place of chaos where several faction (including the PCs) try to become the new rulers (or new sorceror king with one of the PCs is a not good aligned arcane or psionic power user).

trigun8168's idea of replacing the meanads with drow is much better than Paizo's original idea.

Perhaps Kalidnay should return from the mist.

As an evil idea we could say that Ur Draxa has been rebuild in the eye of the storm and is ruled by a new sorceror-king (or queen).

Perhaps Tyr should also loose its status a s point of light, becoming a city ruled by Sadira, who does not realize that she is on the way becoming a dragon.
#5

trigun8168

Feb 02, 2009 8:08:13
Thanks! the meanads never made much sence to me either and i agree with the dregoth army thing. yeah in City by the Silt Sea he had a couple hundred zombies stowed away but his entensions didnt seem to be to have the city run by undead. if anything besides his dray i would think it more likely to be run by demons of sorts brought in by the planar gate.
and i DEFINITLY agree with the piecemeal armour. that was one of my favorite parts of Darksun and would really like to have that brought back. the problem is back them there were no armour penalties so it was just a matter of breaking up the AC bonus by piece where now you have to account for movement, skill penalties ect.... hmmmm....
as for kalidnay.... kinda had an idea about that awhile back too. maybe have him come back, regain his sanity and become a Avangion? or comes back and secretly finishes his transformation. OMG so many ideas!!
#6

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 02, 2009 10:27:46
Piecemeal armor:
I think thate the piecemeal armor rules are quite simple, because half of the armor bonus comes from the torso armor, the rest in euqal part from arms and legs. So an athasian wearing a scale shirt, leather bracers and one piece of hide armor on her leg will have an armor bonus of 5 (4 (torso) + 1 (both arms) + 0 (one leg)), a check penalty of 0 (because the hide armor part is only a eighth of the complete armor and the other parts have no check penalty), a speed penalty of -1, a price of 32.5 cp and would weigh 30 lb. Would she add another piece of hide armor to her other leg the armor bonus would increase to 6, the priese would increase to 36.25 cp and the weight would increase to 32.5 lb.
If she would wear just a breast plate, she would have an armor bonus of 4, a check penalty of -1, a speed penalty of -1 (-1 / 2 = -0.5 rounded mathematically = -1).
The penalty for untrained use of armor is based on how many parts of the armor are used untrained:
Full suit or less: -2
Less than three quarters: -1
Less than one quarter: 0
The ability bonus for defense is also based on how many part of the armor is light (which includes no armor). Multiply that factor with the bonus (and round mathematically).
An example: wearing the armor from both example from above, will give only half of the ability bonus, because bracers and greaves are light (or no) armor but torso is protected by a heavy armor). With a dexterity of 16 (+3) the ability bonus would be +2. If the greaves are replaced with chainmail greaves, only a quarter of the armor would be light, reducing the ability bonus to +1.
Another example:
A half-plate (breast plate and bracers) would have a armor bonus of +6, and just a quarter of the ability for defense would be used.

Kalidnay:
Kalid-Ma should still be asleep, but his chief templar would brought his city to the mist by sacrificing her entire family in order to make him a full dragon (see Domains of Dread for the details) should have died without a successor resulting in the return from the mists. Now several templars fight each other for the control of the city.
#7

trigun8168

Feb 03, 2009 7:07:36
Was kalid-ma's body destroyed? for the life of me i cant remember and cant find where it is stated.
#8

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 03, 2009 11:10:35
No, he was just sleeping (and cannot be woken) and draining the life force of the city to keep himself alive. So his chief templar used the arena to feed him with the life force of the dying.
#9

Band2

Feb 03, 2009 12:34:25
Was kalid-ma's body destroyed? for the life of me i cant remember and cant find where it is stated.

That could be because difference sources disagree on that. According to the Ravenloft version, Kalid-Ma is asleep in a ziggurat in Ravenloft.

According to PAoA Kalid-Ma was killed his body ravaged after battling Borys, Kalak and Hamanu. His psyche was transferred into the Orbs of Kalid-Ma, which if united will bring him back.

Of course there are plenty of contridictions on Kalid-Ma. Try these threads for more:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=213789

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179687
#10

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 03, 2009 13:06:55
According to this, both stories could be true.
#11

Silverblade_The_Enchanter

Feb 03, 2009 16:20:16
Warforged, eladrin and dragon born absolutely don't fit into Athas...unless they are on some very distant area or came through gates etc.
Genasi make sense though on Athas. But, since most Athasians are xenophobic (by hard experience)...

run templars as clerics, fighters or warlords (or multi class), depending on how you see their personality. They are just servants of the SKs, to me it never mattered what class they were , it's loyalty to the SK that counts...and no WAY would an SK let a sleek like Tithian get away with assassinating him, lol.

Nor do templars bureacratic "powers" have anything ot do with their character level. For example, Hammanu may have a superb fighter as a templar, but in the heirarchy he may be low, or high, depending on how he's percieved, etc.

I'd give instead, templars bonuses to the "people" skills in their city, according to their "Power standing in the SK's favour".
say +1d6 when you don't know. a high rank templar would thus get +6 to Diplomacy, Intimidate, BLuff, a low rank one, +1 (they still have considerable clout and fear).

half-giants, to me, have GOT ot be 10' tall, half-ton behemoths, but of limited wit, that is what they are! However lacking balancing rules, I'd just go with minotaurs as the "Base" way to run them.
#12

alisair_longreach

Feb 04, 2009 15:24:37
My concept of Dark Sun 4E would be to make it a nostalgia setting. It should be based on the original box set and the campaign start should be set 50 years BEFORE the events in the Prism Pentad.

The things that made Dark Sun special were that Athas was a harsh world with a scarcity of ressources, radical variant races and restrictions.

There were Dark Sun variant Dwarves, Elves, Half-Elves, Halflings and Humans as well as the Dark Sun specific races of Muls, Half-Giants and Thri-Kreen. These races should be the only PC options in 4E. No Dragonborn, Eladrin or Tieflings. Pterran could be included for those who wants a scaly PC.

All classes had variant abilities and restrictions. In 4E the martial classes should be allowed but restricted to light armor. The Gladiator should be a Paragon Path for martial PCs.

Cleric should be the only allowed Divine class. Clerics of Athas worship the Dragon-Kings and are known by various titles such as Kalak's Templars, Consorts of Nibenay and so on. Include a Channel Divinity feat and Paragon Path for each Dragon-King.

Wizard should be the only allowed Arcane class. Include a Veiled Alliance Paragon Path.

Athasian Bard and Dune Trader should be Paragon Paths for Rogues.

Include guidelines for Primal and Psionic classes.

Include four Elemental classes:
Air Priest, an Elemental Controller.
Earth Priest, an Elemental Defender
Fire Priest, an Elemental Striker
Water Priest, an Elemental Leader.
A Paragon Path for each Elemental class and an Elemental Being Epic Destiny.

The Campaign Guide should include a description of the City of Tyr. King Kalak should be a 25th - 27th level Solo monster npc. The Dragon of Tyr should be a level 35 Solo party killer.

The Dark Sun 4E cosmology should be like this:
Tha Astral Sea is known as the Grey and there are NO Astral Dominions. Athas is LITERALLY a godforsaken world in a desolate corner of the muktiverse.
Athas has a very weak connection to the Feywild and Fey Passage is a 30th level ritual. The Athasian Feywild should be a nasty jungle hell without Eladrins, Fomorians, Gnomes and other Fey critters.
The Shadowfell is known as the Black. No Shadar-Kai, please.
The Athasian Elemetal Chaos should be more segregrated but have no connections to the City of Brass or the Abyss.

There should be a list of acceptable Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies from the Player's Handbooks and Power books.

I hope that there will be extra support for Dark Sun 4E like an Elemental Power rulebook, extra updated Dark Sun monsters in a Monster Manual, Dark Sun magic stuff in an Adventurer's Vault and a minis set with Dark Sun PCs and monsters.
#13

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 04, 2009 15:55:41
I've several problems with your idea:
- A return to time before the events of the Prisma Pentad wont happen, because these books exist and they would publish a setting which requires that some of earlier books for that setting never happen.
- You could compare Paragon paths with the 3.5 prestige classes with high level prerequisites, but gladiator, bard and trader are very common 'classes'.
- As far as I understand it the primal power source includes the elemental powers, because the druid uses that power source. So there is no need for an additional power source.
- Your cosmology will also not happen and is also wrong: The Gray is NOT the Astral Sea. The Gray is an area surronding Athas that seperates Athas from the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos. The Black however is Shadowfell, but the athasian Shadowfell is as lifeless as Asthas itself. The Feywild should be beyond the Gray. And that's wrong with the new one? I think that it is full compatible with the setting.

EDIT:
Andropinos is still imprisioned in the Black but has become the ruler of the Shadar-Kai.
The Drow however have conquered his former city and ruled iot with their matron mother as new sorceror-queen. They are still learning the ways of this new world and know nothing about preservers., so that all Drow arcane classes are defilers. All drow divine classes are the exclusive female templars.
#14

trigun8168

Feb 04, 2009 17:16:18
one problem barb. i like the drow idea but if you keep adropinos trapped how did the drow get on athas? maybe he found a one chance way to get back but was interupted by them and they came through and foiled his plan keeping him trapped?
#15

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 05, 2009 11:27:15
That could be the way.
So, here is a short list:
Balic: ruled by Drow, who foiled Andropinis to leave the Black, took his City as their new home and deposed the elected dictator. The Matron Mother of their first House became the new Sorceror-Queen and all noble female drow are her templars.
Draj: ruled by the House of Tectuktitlay, but the real power behind the throne are the Moon Priests and the Psionicists of the House of the Mind.
Eldaarich: is still ruled by Draskinor, who attacked and devastated Kurn a century ago.
Gulg: still ruled by Lalai-Puy.
Giustenal: ruled and rebuild by Dergoth, the Draco-Lich, and his Dragonborn.
Kalidnay: has retirned from the Demi-Plane of Dread and is ruled by the Chief Templar of the sleeping Sorceror-Queen(!) Kalid-Ma. (There is something strange going on there...)
Kurn: deserted after an attack by Draskinor's forces. The surviving poupulation has either been displaced to Eldaarich to become slaves or has escaped to the hidden city of New Kurn before it left Athas forever.
New Kurn: still ruled by Oronis and has been moved into the Feywild after Kurn was devastated.
Nibenay: still ruled by Nibenay.
Raam: ruled by the feuding noble houses who won the civil war, but it is still a very chaotic place on the brink of a new civil war.
Tyr: ruled by Sadira who has disposed the Council and reinstated the Templars whose divine power source she has become.
Ur-Draxa: rebuild in the center of the Cerulean Storm by surviving Draxamites.
Urik: still ruled by Hamanu.

The Feywild is a savage place of vast jungles and home of the Eladrin. You can only enter the Feywild at a place that has not been defiled, but many places of the Feywild are deadly deserts mirroring the defiled places on Athas. New Kurn has been transported there by Oronis to escape Draskinor's forces.

The Shadowfell is the Black and home of the Shadar-Kay who are ruled by Andropinis in his new city of Albeorn. He still cannot leave the Black, but his followers can after a group of wandering Drow foiled his plan to escape the Black. Deep in the Black lies the Hollow, the eternal prision of Rajaat, which is guarded by Death Giants and Death Titans.

The Gray is the nearly impenetrable border between Athas and the Astral Sea and Athas and the Elemental Chaos, but the Gray has been weakened by the events leading to the creation of the Cerulean storm.

All divine spellcasters are either elemental priests or templars of a Sorceror-King. (I had to change that, because the Sorceror-Kings a linked with the Elemental Plane allowing them to grant their templars spells.)
#16

alisair_longreach

Feb 05, 2009 14:58:17
The main reason I want the Dark Sun 4E campaign to start before the events of the Prism Pentad is that it gives DMs the option of treating the old Dark Sun novels as non-canonical and let their PCs determine the future of Athas and not be spectators to the shenanigans of Sadira, Rikus, Agis and Tithian.

The Reason I want the Athasian Bard to be a Rogue Paragon Path is that in 2E it was just a Thief with a handful of bardic abilities but no magic. The Dune Trader was just a Thief kit.

Elemental is an official power source, read the boxed text om page 54 in the Player's Handbook.

The Grey was the athasian name for the Ethereal Plane in 2E which do no longer exist in 4E. So I thought it might fit a desolate Astral Sea.

One last point to consider about Dark Sun is that it's core concept is about survival in a harsh, brutal world with a scarcity of ressources. Eladrin Swordmages, Drow Warlocks and shiny, honorable Paladins in magic Platemail just breaks the internal logic and the feel of Dark Sun.
#17

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 05, 2009 15:38:52
The main reason I want the Dark Sun 4E campaign to start before the events of the Prism Pentad is that it gives DMs the option of treating the old Dark Sun novels as non-canonical and let their PCs determine the future of Athas and not be spectators to the shenanigans of Sadira, Rikus, Agis and Tithian.

But that won't happen. I wish that Dragonlance would ignore the changes they made during Saga years or that the Spell-Plague never happens in the Forgotten Realsm. But both wishes will never come true. So is it with your wish of a complete restart of dark Sun. But you can still use your old DS material as background source and the 4e material for the rules and play years before the events of the Prisma Pentad.
The Reason I want the Athasian Bard to be a Rogue Paragon Path is that in 2E it was just a Thief with a handful of bardic abilities but no magic. The Dune Trader was just a Thief kit.

So the athasian Bard would become a build for the rogue and not a prestige class. And the Trader was introduced as a sub-class of the rogue (of which both thief and bard were sub-classes in AD&D 2e). So the trader should also be a build for the rogue.
Paragon Paths should be rare (like the prestige classes in 3e).
Elemental is an official power source, read the boxed text om page 54 in the Player's Handbook.

Ooops, overread it. But I still think that the elemental clerics should have the same power source as the Templars, because the latter gain access to thier divine powers from the same source as the former. The only difference is that the Sorceror-Kings allow their templars the use of the powers.
The Grey was the athasian name for the Ethereal Plane in 2E which do no longer exist in 4E. So I thought it might fit a desolate Astral Sea.

The Gray is not the Ethereal Plane, see Defilers & Preservers page 10 (sidebar). It is the barrier between Athas (icluding the Black and the Hollow (and the Wild (that could be a good name for the athasian Feywild)) and the Astral and Ethereal Planes (see Defilers & Preservers page 11).
One last point to consider about Dark Sun is that it's core concept is about survival in a harsh, brutal world with a scarcity of ressources. Eladrin Swordmages, Drow Warlocks and shiny, honorable Paladins in magic Platemail just breaks the internal logic and the feel of Dark Sun.

First, we have to find a way to include the new core races (including those from the FR Campaign setting).
Second, the main theme of dark Sun is not broken with new races and new classes. In the case of the Drow it fits perfectly, a chaotic race cut off from their normal resources who is a s brutala dn harsh as the new world they live in. And that idea eliminates one city as a safe harbour.
Third, Paladins have not to be shiny or honourable in 4e. A athasian Paladin could be a templar or an elemental priest.
Fourth, Swordmages and Warlock would have to follow the same rules as any athasian arcane power user, that means that they have to choose between defiling or preserving in powering their spells.
Fifth, Eladrin and Drow are both elves.
Sixth, plate mail will still be very uncommon on Athas.
#18

trigun8168

Feb 05, 2009 15:45:13
in 4ed paladins are NOT required to be honorable or good and i think would be great templars. that and noone said you have to allow the swordmage or warlock class. i dont really like the feywild part with the eladrin. if i used the feywild it would different with no elidrin they just dont belong in darksun. i still think dregoth should take raam and abalach-re flees to guestinal were she takes over his cast away dray army and begins rebuilding the city.
#19

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 05, 2009 16:11:29
Warlock and their pacts:
They do not forge a pact with an ancient power but they draw the power for their spell directly from their source:
In the case of the Fey Pact it is the Feywild,
in the case of the Infernal Pact it is the Elemental Chaos,
in the case of the Star Pact it is the Astral Sea
and in the case of the Dark Pact it is the Black.
But they still have to draw on the energy of the land, not for powering the spells but for opening a path to the their power source. So they can be defilers or preservers.
BTW a defiling Fey Pact Warlock in the Feywild would cause the same devastation as a normal defiler on Athas. The same applies to all other warlock in the plane of their power source. Most fey pact warlock are preservers and star pact warlock are very rare. Dark and Star pact warlocks are the most common but thye are still rare on Athas. (There are more paladins in the service of the Sorceror-Kings and Queens than there are warlocks living on Athas.)

The Races (new to Athas):
Eladrin: Most of them live in the Wild (= Feywild) and have only little contact with the people of New Kurn. Some of them are stranded on Athas and live in the frew remaining forests or as slaves in the cities or among the elves.
Drow: They are the new ruling caste of Balic with the noble women being the templars of the Sorceror-Queen and the noble men the officers of Balic's slave army.
Dragonborn: They are the chosen people of Dergoth living in the rebuild Giustenal.
Tieflings & Genasi: ??? (Sorry! But there are atleast two way to integrate them into Dark Sun: The 2e version of offsprings between humans and extraplanar beings and the 3e version. And I have no idea which one is the best.)
Warforged: Very rare relicts of the Green Age.
Shifter: Victims of the Pristine Tower. (Okay, I'm evil!)
#20

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 05, 2009 16:19:33
in 4ed paladins are NOT required to be honorable or good and i think would be great templars. that and noone said you have to allow the swordmage or warlock class.

I agree.
i dont really like the feywild part with the eladrin. if i used the feywild it would different with no elidrin they just dont belong in darksun.

That's the reason most of them are living in the Feywild and not on Athas.
The Wild should be a place as brutal and savage as Athas with vast jungles and some deadly desserts (as the result of powerfull defiling magic on Athas). The Eladrin won't be the noble people they are on other worlds, they are are as brutal and savage as the athasian elves. If the halflings are a danger to travellers in the athasian woods, the Eladrin would be as dangerous to travellers in the Wild.
i still think dregoth should take raam and abalach-re flees to guestinal were she takes over his cast away dray army and begins rebuilding the city.

But there is just one problem. She is DEAD! Sadira killed her.

But you like my other ideas?
#21

trigun8168

Feb 05, 2009 18:57:34
yeah thats something i always wanted to change. Sadira fights her but she doesnt die. just becomes weakened which is why she flees to guestinal so quickly. she knows she has no chance and after the encounter with sadira is not quite willing to die yet.

i like the rest of the ideas much as i would see it. i guess if eledrins are made to be viscious much like the halfling and stay in the feywild, then they could work.
as for people on all the threads that say dragonborn dont belong in DS....
3RD GENERATION DRAY!!! dregoth believes his 2nd generation dray are to blame for his failed ascension and cast them away(they return to guestinal) he then creates the 3rd generation. there! they now belong.
#22

trigun8168

Feb 05, 2009 19:08:20
races- genasi: during dregoths attempt to become a God many clerics who had a strong connection with the elements become infused with a direct connection as Dregoth tore a hole in the elemental planes. the offspring of these peoples gave birth to the first genasi.
teiflings: before a group of adventurers destroyed the planar gate a small group of demons snuck through and found there way to a small village hidden in the wastes. under human guise they breed with the people there and created the first teiflings. after 300 yrs there numbers have grown.

i kinda like the ideas of having shifters. they are feral and dangerous and i feel would fit well. not sure about pritine tower creations... maybe came from far off land and pilgramed finding there way to the great rift and beyond.
the idea of warforged as relics is cool, but personally i dont think ill use them as pcs. maybe as npc's under the SK's control. hmmmm.... not sure.
#23

longroad

Feb 05, 2009 19:34:14
Another answer to the planetouched could be Eldaarich and Kurn. Tieflings could be the descendants of those who made pacts with beings of the Black to escape the madness of their DK, and Devas could be those people who have lived around an avangion for quite some time and started changing.
#24

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 06, 2009 9:36:46
yeah thats something i always wanted to change. Sadira fights her but she doesnt die. just becomes weakened which is why she flees to guestinal so quickly. she knows she has no chance and after the encounter with sadira is not quite willing to die yet.

Perhaps she found a way back to the Land of the Living. Reincarnation? Perhaps the new ruler of Raam has a secret and is the reincarnated Ablach-Re. I thing that Dergoth should stay in Giustenal. He tried to keep a low profile. And he can't keep a low profile if he conquers Raam. So his Dray stayed in Giustenal rebuild it after the Sea of Silt receded after the events that lead to the creation of the Genasi.
We should not change any events of the original (= AD&D) Dark Sun material, but we can ignore anything Paizo wrote.
races- genasi: during dregoths attempt to become a God many clerics who had a strong connection with the elements become infused with a direct connection as Dregoth tore a hole in the elemental planes. the offspring of these peoples gave birth to the first genasi.

Good idea. That attemp of Dregoth to attain godhood explains also a very good the many changes between the 2e/2e/3.5 and 4e versions of Dark Sun.
tieflings: before a group of adventurers destroyed the planar gate a small group of demons snuck through and found there way to a small village hidden in the wastes. under human guise they breed with the people there and created the first tieflings. after 300 yrs there numbers have grown.

That's also a good idea, but I think those demons and devils should not have stayed in that village but spread out and created Tieflings everywhere.
i kinda like the ideas of having shifters. they are feral and dangerous and i feel would fit well. not sure about pritine tower creations... maybe came from far off land and pilgramed finding there way to the great rift and beyond.

Or they are creatures of the Wild and perhaps enemies of the Eladrin.
the idea of warforged as relics is cool, but personally i dont think ill use them as pcs. maybe as npc's under the SK's control. hmmmm.... not sure.

A warforged defiler in the service of a Sorceror-King? That's evil, but that brings us to a warforged renegade and being a renegade is always a good background for a PC.
Another answer to the planetouched could be Eldaarich and Kurn. Tieflings could be the descendants of those who made pacts with beings of the Black to escape the madness of their DK, and Devas could be those people who have lived around an avangion for quite some time and started changing.

You know that the Black is Shadowfell and that Tieflings are related to demons and devils and not to creatures of Shadowfell?
And as long as the Devas have not be published we should ignore them.
I like the original idea behind the Tieflings and the then Aaasimar much more than their 4e origins.
#25

yashugan00

Feb 06, 2009 16:21:54
in 4ed paladins are NOT required to be honorable or good and i think would be great templars. that and noone said you have to allow the swordmage or warlock class. i dont really like the feywild part with the eladrin. if i used the feywild it would different with no elidrin they just dont belong in darksun. i still think dregoth should take raam and abalach-re flees to guestinal were she takes over his cast away dray army and begins rebuilding the city.

Hi Trigun,
I agree that the idea of the Feywild, most commonly characterised by dense jungles doesn't fit the Darksun profile. However, I'm sure the feywild has extraordinary desert and mountain terrain as well. You could opt to include the feywild, but restrict the terrain over Tyr to match the world terrain type. I think that is consistent with the description of the Feywild: essentially nature exagerated, mountains appear bigger and more majestic, deserts can be idealised too. Since in the feywild senses such as sight appear 'sharper', it would be realy painful to be able to see every grain of sand in sharp resolution. Heck, since its an exageration/idealisation, the Athasian feywild desert could be even hotter, depending on your take. I think the feywild can fit, provided one goes a bit further than the "the feywild = jungle", the Athasian Feywild could have suffered even worse than the prime plane, seeing as it is an idealisation.

On the other hand, you could do the opposit: feel free to tease your paranoid players as they enter a lush oasis in the middle of nowhere with an abundance of water. They are likely very wary of this gift. Perhaps thinking it is a fata morgana or a trap, but actualy they're in a landfall, and the next morning, they're back on the material plane at a dried out oasis, wishing they had filled up on water.

(For just one example of Oasis 'spoilers': Sand Parasite: A small Sand Parasite can move into any amount of water. The water a Sand Parasite drinks will be poisoned inside his body and so it is sometimes possible that a whole oases is filled with poisoned water) from
TEOS ABADIA & GERALD ARTHUR LEWIS
A Dark Sun List Netbook Project. (ecocolor.pdf)
#26

yashugan00

Feb 06, 2009 16:42:36
Perhaps its just me, please correct me on this, I've never tought that Devils belonged on Athas.
Why? Athas is essentially closed off from the Astral by the Grey and the gods make no presence. Thus, there is no pantheon of gods in Tyr, and likely nowhere else on Athas. Now, I know in 4e, both devils and demons make their home in the Elemental Chaos and that Athas is strongly connected to the Elemental Chaos (clerics having links to the Elements rather than the divine powers of the Astral)

Yet, what sets this setting appart is the absense of gods.
Futhermore, (Ok i know you are going to FLAME me for this, but please don't, be tolerant) The predominance Power Source on Athas is Psionics. Psionics is the Power within (as opposed to External Power(Arcane), the Power Above(Divine) or the Power Below(Pacts))
Psionics is actualy a pretty atheist idea: Belief/understanding (whatever you want to call it) in oneself, rather than a god or devil as source of one's powers.

So if this no higher powers and psionics characterise darksun. Why would you encounter a devil in the desert? To me that makes no sense. Wouldn't that detract from the survival genre? Imagine: you're in a post apocalyptic world, there's almost no water and little food. Every day is a struggle for resources, the very elements conspire against you. You've never heard of a god, there are only the god-kings (SK's) Oh, and guess what? A devil is bargaining for your soul ... A Soul that technically, will never escape the Grey anyway. One would have to give their Soul right there and then for the devil to be able to clame it. What would be their motivation to even BE there.

... please help me find the 'niche' of Devils on Athas. Otherwise, I'm not including them, just doesn't seem to fit.
#27

yashugan00

Feb 06, 2009 16:57:08
I agree the Genasi realy fit darksun like a glove. They'd be less exotic than any other setting.
Warforged as Relics, that was my first idea as well: as blue age remnants guarding the remaining Blue age shelters, they'd be organically grown by the Halflings during the Blue age, as opposed to created by Creation Forges)
Or, you could argue: there is a lot of psionic potential out there and an even greater mortality rate.
So, what if some of the highest levels of psionic talent (i'm looking at you here ELANS!) in their bid to improve their own survival chances, choose to transfer their minds not in Obsidian Orbs, but in a humanoid body: Warforged are born. Of course there would have to be a lot of secret experimentation first: perhaps the player character was kidnapped, transferred and released. The transformation could only have been partially succesful, which accounts for the emotionally impaired Warforged. Their psyche would then need an anchor on reality to cope and that could account for the Athasian Warforgeds focus on the utilitarian.
#28

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 06, 2009 17:11:20
Hmm, that idea of the Feywild (I think that just the Wild will be much more athasian name for it) is much better. The same landscape but in a 'fey' way. And every grand act defiling on Athas would affect the Wild too.

Hmm, the Black (that is Shadowfell in 4e) should have also the same landscape as Athas but the a dark way.

There are solutions to the devil and demon problem. One is the Planar Gate (see Psionic Artefacts of Athas).

Please, no Elan (or one of Paizo's other racial additions to Athas)! We have enough problem adding those core races which have not been eradicated in the Cleasing Wars. But idea behind the creation of the warforged is not bad.
#29

ishan_wh

Feb 07, 2009 10:48:31
Hey everybody

For the Dark Sun 4E, I have some thoughts on several things, first of all Tithian should be back on his feet, jump the time to a few years (till Free Year 16) also I believe the Templar could function just like a warlord but with some cleric powers maybe, the holy symbol is a must. As for the races leave them to the core! Mul, Half Giant, Thri kreen, and please NO Eladrin, Dragonborn (although the Dragonborn could be the sons of that evil undead SK), NO Drows or Tieflings. I believe that these new races take some of the flavor of the DS setting. Could use some new powers appropriate to the Dark Sun mechanics, (must be the Psion class when available), and since there is lots of material on NPC´s and realm history (Veiled Alliance, Avangion, Dragon, etc.) there must be new Paragon and Epic paths.

Guess that´s all I got to say... for now hehehe
#30

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 07, 2009 12:07:39
I think I should collect all our ideas in just one document...

Two ideas for the character generation:
- All native athasians (that excludes Drow and other races not original native to Athas) get one psionic at-will power as an encounter power. That should simulate the wild psi-talent all athasians have.
- All characters start on the third level. And to simulate the original 5d4 instead of 3d6 use in rolling the ability scores, add 2 to all abilty scores at first level (because the average score of 3d6 is 10.5 but the average score of 5d4 is 12.5).

Back to the background:
- After Dregoth reemerged with his army of Dragonborn and alliance of most of the city-states was formed against him, but it broke appart after he took Raam and the city's young Queen vanished. Only Tyr, Nibenay and Gulg remain allies, that in this case only means, that they are not enemies.
- Giustenal has been rebuild be Ablach-Re, fellow escaped Raamites and those natives who were left behind after Dregoth took Raam and the Sea of Silt receded from the ruined city. A new spring has been found at the place where Dregoth used a ritual to attained godhood and failed weakening the part of the Gray between Athas and the Elemental Chaos.
- The weakening of the Gray allowed not only to infuse elemetal clerics with the power of their elements, leading to the creation of the Genasi, but also the arrival of several demons and devils on Athas, who were forced to take a human guise and became the founders of the Tieflings, who are much more rare than the Genasi.
- The origin of the few known warforged is unknown. Are they the creations of the Rajaat's champions during the Cleansing Wars? Or were they created to fight against Rajaat and his champions? Or as some assume are they containing the life essence of powerful masters of the way who tried to attain immortality by creating artifical bodies to hold their powerfull minds (and something went wrong)? Or do they come from another plane? No one knows.
- The shifters however live in the jungles of the Wild, but they are not fey. Their original place of origin is unknown, but with one of them having a wild psi-talent, it was not Athas.
- The Eladrin live in the many oasis of the Wild and some of them trade with the newly appeared city of New Kurn, while other want to destroy the city.
- Albeorn is the only known city in the Black residing on the same place as Balic on Athas.
- Sadira of Tyr is now known as the Sun Goddes, because after Dregoth's attempt to attain godhood she was suddenly able to grant the templars of Tyr spells as if she was a Sorceror-Queen. Even if she does not like it, she has become a goddess in the eyes of the common Tyr citizen and they forced the high council to make her the eternal Queen of Tyr (her other title).
She does not age and still look like a young half-elven woman.
- Hammanu of Urik does not trust Sadira of Tyr or his former collegues Nibenay and Lalali-Puy who allied themselves with the Sun Goddess of Tyr. If things would go his way everything would be before the death of King Kalak of Tyr more than three hundred years ago.
- There is no Veiled Alliance in Raam anymore. Dregoth destroyed shortly after conquering the city. And the Veiled Alliance in Balic has been forced back into the underground after the Drow took the city. The 'alliance' between Tyr, Nibenay and Gulg has divided the Veiled Alliance in Nibenay in two groups: the idealists who still oppose the Shadow King and the realists who accept that they are not prosecuted anymore and can live as free as their conterparts in Tyr and Gulg. Only Draj's Veiled Alliance did not change. They are as incompetent as ever. There is no Veiled Alliance in New Kurn (not needed), Eldaarich (destroyed 700 yeras ago), Albeorn (no preservers present) and Ur Draxa (not established).
- Ur Draxa has the highest percentage of Genasi and Tieflings of all athasian city-states. Some assume that it has to be with its place in the Eye of the Cerulean Storm. In the city Draxamite defilers tap into the power of the Cerulean storm to power their spells, but they have to be careful or they are destroyed by it. The true ruler of Ur Draxa is Tithian who is still trapped inside the Cerulean Storm and gained immortality through this. He rules the rebuild city through his chief templar.
- In Kalidnay Kalid-Ma is still sleeping. So everyone things. But the truth is that only his body sleeps, his mind has taken over the body of Thakok-An, his female half-elven chief templar, while her mind has been transferred into the body of a warforged. (Should I really use this idea?)
#31

Tectuktitlay

Feb 07, 2009 12:17:14
I was going to give all Athasian characters something a little different. FR and Dragon (Scales of War) introduced Backgrounds. I am going to give (or am hoping WotC opts for) "Wild Talent" as an optional Background choice. Anyone native to Athas can (or maybe MUST) take a Wild Talent as their Background. Wild Talents will be a list of minor abilities that are psionic in nature, preferably encounter or at-will powers, or the occasional unusual static bonus.
#32

trigun8168

Feb 07, 2009 15:42:01
yashugan
if you have used and played the adventure in City By The Silt Sea when looking into the planar gate one vision the players see is an army of demons waiting to be called in by Dregoth. It is very well possible a few slipped in through the gate before it was destroyed. other then that id agree there is no way for them to get here.
Barbarossa
i like most of what you have but i think +2 to ALL scores in a a bit too much. a +1 maybe but not +2. i have found that with the point buy my average pc is stronger then my average 3.5 pc.
I personally LOVE the elan, but i want to be carefull adding to many races. i wouldnt allow eladrin or shifter races as pcs just enemies to fight in the Wild and i would possible have warforged as ancient relics but not allowable to pcs. i still love our drow idea, originally thought shadar-kia but after a lil thought realized that wouldnt fit. why would they be trying to get to anothe world? the idea of the drow trying to spread the influence of LLoth only to relize that on athas there is no way to contact her works great imo.
i like the kalid-ma thing. always wanted to bring him back.

assimar could work from being around a avangion to long but i couldnt possible find a reason for them to be on Athas. they would just be templars that stay in there city. Athas is filled with too much hatred and chaos for them.
#33

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 07, 2009 16:42:06
if you have used and played the adventure in City By The Silt Sea when looking into the planar gate one vision the players see is an army of demons waiting to be called in by Dregoth. It is very well possible a few slipped in through the gate before it was destroyed. other then that id agree there is no way for them to get here.

And we do not know if that was the only planar gate.
i like most of what you have but i think +2 to ALL scores in a a bit too much. a +1 maybe but not +2.

Do not forget that in the original rules characters were rolled with 4d4+4 (the 5d4 were only used for NPCs) instead of 3d6. That would mean an ability score increase by 4 points, because the average is 14.5.
I think that the 4d4+4 should be used for the rolling scores method.
i have found that with the point buy my average pc is stronger then my average 3.5 pc.

You have more points (32 instead of 25, if you add the 5x 2 points for those 5 abilities that start with 10 instead of 8) to distibute among the six abilities, but the the costs has also been increased by one for all score below 18 (and by two for 18). The standart array (16,14,13,12,11,10) is only five points more expensive in the 3.5 rules than the 3.5 one (15,14,13,12,10,8), which would cost only 19 points in 4e.
And BTW even first level Dark Sun characters were more powerfull than normal one. Hey, they could start with unmodified ability scores of 20 and not 18.
I personally LOVE the elan, but i want to be carefull adding to many races. i wouldnt allow eladrin or shifter races as pcs just enemies to fight in the Wild and i would possible have warforged as ancient relics but not allowable to pcs.

I also think that the Eladrin, the Shifters, the Shadar-Kay and the Warforged should not be used as pc races (although I like th idea of a warforged preserver), but there are always some players who want to play them and some DM who allows that.
i still love our drow idea, originally thought shadar-kia but after a lil thought realized that wouldnt fit. why would they be trying to get to anothe world? the idea of the drow trying to spread the influence of LLoth only to relize that on athas there is no way to contact her works great imo.

I thought that the Drow escaped the destruction of their home (perhaps they come from the Forgotten Realms) and wandered through the Black until they stumbled across Andropinis who also tried to escape the Black. Typical Drow they tricked him and escaped to Athas, finding themselves in Balic and taking over the City in a coup d'état.
i like the kalid-ma thing. always wanted to bring him back.

Which one? I had two similiar but different ones:
1. Kalid-Ma sleep in a female body, Thakok-An ruling.
2. Kalid-Ma's male body sleeping, Kalid-Ma ruling in Thakok-An's body, Thakok-An serving as a warforged.
assimar could work from being around a avangion to long but i couldnt possible find a reason for them to be on Athas. they would just be templars that stay in there city. Athas is filled with too much hatred and chaos for them.

That's right, but there are only two known avangions of Athas: Oronis and Korgunard (from DSQ2). I've banished Oronis into the Wild and the whereabouts of Korgunard are unknown. BTW Aasimar (or Devas, as they are now called) are divine beings with connections to the Astral Sea, but the athasian divine power source is not linked to the Astral Sea but the Elemental Chaos.
#34

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 09, 2009 13:21:13
Although I do not like some of the ideas (e.g. Eladrin as defilers) and there are some mistakes (e.g. the races annihilated by Rajaat's Champions) in it, this blog has IMO a very good take on defilers and preservers.
#35

Pennarin

Feb 09, 2009 13:53:52
I was going to give all Athasian characters something a little different. FR and Dragon (Scales of War) introduced Backgrounds. I am going to give (or am hoping WotC opts for) "Wild Talent" as an optional Background choice. Anyone native to Athas can (or maybe MUST) take a Wild Talent as their Background. Wild Talents will be a list of minor abilities that are psionic in nature, preferably encounter or at-will powers, or the occasional unusual static bonus.

It's said in many places you can add a little to a monster without having to make it Elite (as if you were applying a whole template to it), so you might do the same for PCs...for wild talents.

It would be nice to see a dozen or so examples of small tweeks that can be done, and guidelines as to what you should strive for, and DMs would create their own wild talents (after all, many of them were supposed to be unique psionic abilities) for their PCs...based on what the PC wants as part of his background.
#36

trigun8168

Feb 12, 2009 13:18:07
hey barb. been busy so havnt had time to post but i am currently working on compiling my personall ideas and ideas taken from others into one file. hopefully will be posting it up within the next week. ifyou or anyone else has any new ideas let me know.
#37

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 12, 2009 16:35:34
Just one thing:
You can really use any race (except those who were listed a annihilated during the Cleansing Wars) in Dark Sun because new races were created every day in the deserts (or so it was told in the novels).

Another idea was the use of embassies in the cities of the alliance. This may not sound very Dark Sun-like, but I thought with Tyr, Gulg and Nibenay having the same goal (for different reasons, but it is still the same goal), they would strengthen thier alliance (against Dregoth, but also in rebuilding Athas) by having ambassadors in the cities of the alliance.

A third idea was the discovery of a new iron mine near the old dwarven city below Kled. That could be used as a reason Urik has left the alliance (wanting but not getting the mine).

I just like the idea of an (uneasy) alliance between Tyr, Nibenay and Gulg.
#38

trigun8168

Feb 12, 2009 17:04:34
how do i post those "spoiler" things?
#39

yashugan00

Feb 12, 2009 17:56:19
Divine classed: Based on the fact that the druid will not a divine class but a primal class and that athasian clerics (excluding templars) resemble the normal druids more than the normal cleric, I think that all divine classes should be templar.

This seems to be agreed by most if understood as: all divine classes should be types of Templar.

Defilers: Defiling should be a class feature of all arcane classes grating the ability to power arcane rituals through defiling instead of using material components. The defiling radius (and damage) should be based on the level of the ritual. Additionally defiling should be an encounter power which allows to reuse an used encounter or daily power.

I think most agree: all use of Arcane Power on Athas carry with them the potential to be boosted by defiling. It is a technique. I like the idea that this ties to rituals and neglects the material components. (a high cost is paid, though not directly by the caster).

At Heroic Level: bonuses to At Will power (+X)
> At this level of experience the caster can only sap Plant life, where plant life does not recover for X weeks.

At Paragon Level: reuse an Encounter Power and/or At Will (X+2)
> Plant and smaller animals are affected, the Defiled area does not recover for X Months (making it a more heinous crime). Preservers and Intelligent NPCs, or their surviving relatives, who rely on the sapped resource for water or food will go out of their way to find you.

At Epic level, reuse a Daily power. and/or At Will Power (X+3)
> All life in the radius shrivels and nothing grows for X years. Preservers or negatively affected NPCs will hunt or hire hunters to track the defiler down. (for example a merchant house who relied on an oasis to transport goods from A to B, the dissapearance of said oasis will hit them with further economical costs (lost merchandise, dead transport animals and crew).
If the Defiler's name becomes known, all organised Preservers (Veiled Alliance) will have heard of him/her and plans will be made in case Defiler shows up and can be taken care of discreetly.

Of course the Reuse of an Encounter or Daily power cannot be repeated to keep the game balanced. I propose: If the environment is already being Defiled it becomes unconductive to further immediate Defiling by the same caster. Regardless of the lushness/life in surroundings, a Defiler's ability to draw a certain percentage depends on his level. If he's already "defiled" he lacks the experience to draw more even if there is more. So a Heroic level Defiler will get the reuse of Power benefit once per Encounter, but cannot draw more.


Futhermore, it does not fit 4e rules to set 15 different levels of Lushness of the Life force in the area and then boost by those grades. (too much score keeping)


At Epic level Destinees: requirment multiclass arcane(any clas) psionic(any class)
Alignment chooses Epic destinee (also factor in common use of Defiling for those who don't equate Alignment with Preserving vs Defiling)
choose Avangion,Dragon
Epic destiny gives flavor appropriate Powers, bonuses.

Races:
The racial features of nearly all races have to be customised to resemble those of the original setting.
There is the problem of those 'new' races Dragonborn, Eladrin, Tiefling, Drow (FR), Genasi (FR), Shifter (E), Warforged (E), but some of them could fit into the setting:
Eladrin could be seen as the original Elves who are stranded on Athas and cut off from the Feywild. Most of them became the athasian Elves we know, but some of them still live in hidden communities and have kept much of their original culture.
Genasi should not be a race of its own but like the original Genasi offsprings of a human and a being from the elemental chaos.
The same but with devils and demon should apply to the Tieflings.
Drow could be seen as Elves/Eladrin who escaped the genocide by hiding underground.
Dragonborn could be seen as third generation Dray.
But there are also some races missing: Half Giants, Muls, Thri-Kreen from the original setting and Aarakocra and Pterrans from the expanded and revised setting.

Nice, I also like to see a lot less: It's a creature from the Tower. IMHO That's a nice way for the DM to originate interesting (or oddball) one shot creatures from to keep players on their toes. Not to be used to create entire player races from. (feels like a cop-out) There's almost always some inventive way to tie in a Race with historical relevancy.

Background:
I think that they should advance the timeline for at least a hundred years with the sorcere-kings ruling those cities who have lost theirs in the past, recreating the original setting without removing the Prisma Pentad from history. That passage of time could also explain the appearance of the new races.

I think some would like to go back to the oppressive SK's RULE and if you don't like it, there's the Gate to the Athasian deserts and good luck out there. If some city states are free, then there is hope. Others like it when there is a mix to work with, as it can inspire story lines.

I wonder what the percentage of posters is that wants Pre-Penthad vs Post Penthad? (Of course Pre-Pentad can also be Post Pentad but many decades later where SK's have consolidated their grip again)
I know this has been asked before, anyone got a ballpark figure of the results?
#40

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 13, 2009 9:46:50
This seems to be agreed by most if understood as: all divine classes should be types of Templar.

But we have still a probelm with the elemental clerics and druids.
Druids have 'primal' as power source. That should be no real problem.
The elemental clerics are the real problem, because we do know nothing about the elemental power source.
I think elemental clerics should replace teh power source of their prayers with elemental(fire, water, air, earth etc.) and the damage type with something that fits to their chosen element:
fire - fire
water - cold(?)
air - thunder (?)
earth - ?

They should also be limited to the weapons of their element.
I think most agree: all use of Arcane Power on Athas carry with them the potential to be boosted by defiling. It is a technique. I like the idea that this ties to rituals and neglects the material components. (a high cost is paid, though not directly by the caster).

At Heroic Level: bonuses to At Will power (+X)
> At this level of experience the caster can only sap Plant life, where plant life does not recover for X weeks.

At Paragon Level: reuse an Encounter Power and/or At Will (X+2)
> Plant and smaller animals are affected, the Defiled area does not recover for X Months (making it a more heinous crime). Preservers and Intelligent NPCs, or their surviving relatives, who rely on the sapped resource for water or food will go out of their way to find you.

At Epic level, reuse a Daily power. and/or At Will Power (X+3)
> All life in the radius shrivels and nothing grows for X years. Preservers or negatively affected NPCs will hunt or hire hunters to track the defiler down. (for example a merchant house who relied on an oasis to transport goods from A to B, the dissapearance of said oasis will hit them with further economical costs (lost merchandise, dead transport animals and crew).
If the Defiler's name becomes known, all organised Preservers (Veiled Alliance) will have heard of him/her and plans will be made in case Defiler shows up and can be taken care of discreetly.

Of course the Reuse of an Encounter or Daily power cannot be repeated to keep the game balanced. I propose: If the environment is already being Defiled it becomes unconductive to further immediate Defiling by the same caster. Regardless of the lushness/life in surroundings, a Defiler's ability to draw a certain percentage depends on his level. If he's already "defiled" he lacks the experience to draw more even if there is more. So a Heroic level Defiler will get the reuse of Power benefit once per Encounter, but cannot draw more.

I don't think that defiling as power boost is such a good idea. Defiling is just are careless way of collecting the needed energy for arcane powers.
But as power feats your suggested defiling powers (with damage type necrotic) would wrk great.
Futhermore, it does not fit 4e rules to set 15 different levels of Lushness of the Life force in the area and then boost by those grades. (too much score keeping)

See the link to a Dark Sun 4e blog if posted.
Another way to simulate this would be that you count the squares from your defiler to the nearest x squares with plant life. That would be the defiling radius.
At Epic level Destinees: requirment multiclass arcane(any clas) psionic(any class)
Alignment chooses Epic destinee (also factor in common use of Defiling for those who don't equate Alignment with Preserving vs Defiling)
choose Avangion,Dragon
Epic destiny gives flavor appropriate Powers, bonuses.

It is too easy to become an avangion or a dragon that way. You should add having a specific number of defiler feats to the prerequisites.
Nice, I also like to see a lot less: It's a creature from the Tower. IMHO That's a nice way for the DM to originate interesting (or oddball) one shot creatures from to keep players on their toes. Not to be used to create entire player races from. (feels like a cop-out) There's almost always some inventive way to tie in a Race with historical relevancy.

That's the reason behind it.
I think some would like to go back to the oppressive SK's RULE and if you don't like it, there's the Gate to the Athasian deserts and good luck out there. If some city states are free, then there is hope. Others like it when there is a mix to work with, as it can inspire story lines.

Are they really free?
Take alook at the free cities:
- Kurn has been destroyed and New Kurn has been moved into the Wild.
- Balic is ruled by the Drow.
- Raam is ruled by Dregoth.
- Draj is ruled by an alliance of templars and evil psionicists.
- Tyr is ruled again by a Sorcerer-Queen (Sadira, the Sun Goddess, the eternal Queen of Tyr)

You could argue that Nibenay and Gulg are now also free cities, but that's not really the case.

how do i post those "spoiler" things?

Send a PM if want to tell the spoiler just one person, or change the colour of your message.

Several new ideas:
- There are no Dragonborn preservers.
- The Dragonborn are the Dray who survived Dregoths attempt to attain godhood.
- That attempt should be the catalyst for the return of Kalidnay, the arrival of the Drow and the restructuring of the planes
- The other events (Conquest of Raam, Alliance of the Ciyt-States, Destruction of Kurn etc.) should happen years later.
#41

Silverblade_The_Enchanter

Feb 13, 2009 12:05:25
ugh...stick to the original boxed set..no damned dragonborn, no eladrin
the SKs still live, etc!
Add some more cleric powers to fit their elemental nature (easy).
Psionics (maybeneed Player's Handbook 3?)
and you are good to go!

"If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!"

many folk utterly loathe the "new" Forgotten Realms. I can see why they did it, but it's been a massive break with players.

Unlike the Realms, DS doens't have a massive cannonical and current path. The writers themselves have said forcing the setting down their path in the novels was wrong.
SKs should only be killed by PCs and DMs.

Dark SUn must not become some abominable happy-huggy politically-correct brain-mulch!
It's a challenging, harsh, entertaining place to play D&D games in.

If they shoe-horn in everything from 4th ed, speciifically, races, it will just screw it up. Athas has a unique feel to it, with limited and unique races. That is a GOOD thing.
#42

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 13, 2009 12:17:06
ugh...stick to the original boxed set..no damned dragonborn, no eladrin
the SKs still live, etc!
Add some more cleric powers to fit their elemental nature (easy).
Psionics (maybeneed Player's Handbook 3?)
and you are good to go!

"If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!"

That sound as if you think that you had to fix the setting, because you ignore everything written after the first box . And that is IMHO a try to fix something that is not broken.
#43

yashugan00

Feb 13, 2009 18:08:01
But we have still a probelm with the elemental clerics and druids.
Druids have 'primal' as power source. That should be no real problem.
The elemental clerics are the real problem, because we do know nothing about the elemental power source.
I think elemental clerics should replace teh power source of their prayers with elemental(fire, water, air, earth etc.) and the damage type with something that fits to their chosen element:
fire - fire
water - cold(?)
air - thunder (?)
earth - ?
They should also be limited to the weapons of their element.

Agreed: and by extention most Primal Power classes fit well as Preservers. Druid can remain untouched and would fit better on Athas than the 3.5 'divine' druid. Same with Warden as Preserver.
The Athasian Elemental Clerics from 2e: We'll see when the Elemental Power source comes in. It's a bit soon but without knowing anything more about those classes the Elemental Leader role would most likely fit this role.

I don't think that defiling as power boost is such a good idea. Defiling is just are careless way of collecting the needed energy for arcane powers.
But as power feats your suggested defiling powers (with damage type necrotic) would wrk great.
[/QOUTE]
Not sure if agree with the implication of Defiling being Just a careless way of collecting energy. I'd say defiling is HARDER to accomplish than normal arcane use and that one would need to be better at arcana to pull it off.
Fluff wise defiling totally overpowers normal users, that has to be reflected somehow. Crunch/rule wise, we'd still need to keep it balanced and thats difficult. I like your idea of giving the Defiling power a specific damage type, though I'm not sure it should be necrotic. How about an arcane attack power that does total or half psionic damage? Interesting if people have more ideas on this.


See the link to a Dark Sun 4e blog if posted.
Another way to simulate this would be that you count the squares from your defiler to the nearest x squares with plant life. That would be the defiling radius.
ok, what about x squares gives x advantage? More defiling should give increasing amount of advantage no?


It is too easy to become an avangion or a dragon that way. You should add having a specific number of defiler feats to the prerequisites.

Realy, i didnt read the books but are there many lvl20 characters running amok in darksun then? to survive to that level would be a challenge in itself.
Defiling feats, thats a great idea. Maybe that could be the feat you'd have to take to 'learn' the defiling technique. Which can then be used along with any arcane power/attack.

Are they really free?
Take alook at the free cities:
- Kurn has been destroyed and New Kurn has been moved into the Wild.
- Balic is ruled by the Drow.
- Raam is ruled by Dregoth.
- Draj is ruled by an alliance of templars and evil psionicists.
- Tyr is ruled again by a Sorcerer-Queen (Sadira, the Sun Goddess, the eternal Queen of Tyr)
You could argue that Nibenay and Gulg are now also free cities, but that's not really the case.

Did not know that, thanks for explaining.


Several new ideas:
- There are no Dragonborn preservers.
- The Dragonborn are the Dray who survived Dregoths attempt to attain godhood.
- That attempt should be the catalyst for the return of Kalidnay, the arrival of the Drow and the restructuring of the planes
- The other events (Conquest of Raam, Alliance of the Ciyt-States, Destruction of Kurn etc.) should happen years later.


Not sure what you are talking about here. Could you Elaborate?
#44

trigun8168

Feb 13, 2009 20:14:47
this is a compilation of my stuff and the stuff of many others and represents everything used in my campaign.


Darksun 4ed races classes

This is a mix of my own material and material used from other forum members. It is the info as used in my current campaign. Much thanks to Zardnaar, Alex, Barb and everyone else whos ideas I stole!
This all takes place 100 years after Paizos DS and includes much of there ideas as well as many new and changed concepts.
Veiled alliance
There is no Veiled Alliance in Raam anymore. Dregoth destroyed shortly after conquering the city. And the Veiled Alliance in Balic has been forced back into the underground after the Drow took the city. The 'alliance' between Tyr, Nibenay and Gulg has divided the Veiled Alliance in Nibenay in two groups: the idealists who still oppose the Shadow King and the realists who accept that they are not prosecuted anymore and can live as free as their conterparts in Tyr and Gulg. Only Draj's Veiled Alliance did not change. They are as incompetent as ever.
RACES
Tielfings
during Dregoths attempt at godhood the planar gate was destroyed but not before a group of demons escaped through the portal. over the last couple of centuries they had breed with many humans and elves and teiflings are popping up more and more and are seen with great distrust.

Dragonsborn(dray)
casting away his 2nd generation dray after his failed attempt at godhood dregoth created the 3rd generation dray and was even able to grant them a breath attack.

Humans
Humans remain unchanged

Genasi
when dregoth tried to ascend he tore a hole into the elemental chaos and many clerics were infused with pure elemental power. there offspring were the first genasi and over the centuries they have become quite the norm.

Drow
Andropinos found a one chance way to escape the Black. However his ritual was interupted by a group army of wandering drow. Eager to expand the control of Lolth to yet another world the drow foiled andopinis’s plans and exited the black into athas leaving the Sk trapped untill his time ran out. Too late the drow found that they had no way to contact Lolth on athas. They quickly ransaced Balic and took the City for there own making there patron mother the new ruler.


Dwarves
Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 5 squares
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common, Dwarven
Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance, +2 History
Dwarven Focus: You gain a +5 racial bonus on saving throws against Charm effects.
Dwarven Resilience: You can use your second wind as a minor action instead of a standard action.
Encumbered Speed: You move at your normal speed even when it would normally be reduced by armor or a heavy load. Other effects that limit speed (such as difficult terrain or magical effects) affect you normally.
Stand Your Ground: When an effect forces you to move-through a pull, a push, or a slide- you can move 1 square less than the effect specifies. This means an effect that normally pulls, pushes, or slides a target 1 square does not force you to move unless you want to. In addition, when an attack would knock you prone, you can immediately make a saving throw to avoid falling prone.

Elves
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence
Size: Medium
Speed: 7 squares
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common, Elven
Skill Bonuses: +2 Bluff, +2 Perception
Elven run: elves gain a +1 to overland travel.
Wild Step: You ignore difficult terrain when you shift (even if you have a power that allows you to shift multiple squares).
Elven Deception: You can use elven deception as an encounter power.

Elven Trickery
You use your infamous Elven guile to get your enemy to drop their defenses.
Encounter;Weapon
Move Action;Weapon
Target: 1 Creature
Attack: Int vs Will, Cha vs Will, Wis v Will
Effect: You gain combat advantage against the target until the beginning of your next turn.


Half-Elves
Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +2 Dexterity
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common, Elven, choice of one other
Skill Bonuses: +2 Diplomacy, +2 Insight
Dilettante: At 1st level, you choose an at-will power from a class different from yours. You can use that power as an encounter power.
Dual Heritage: You can take feats that have either elf or human as a prerequisite (as well as those specifically for half-elves), as long as you meet any other requirements.
Group Insight: You grant allies within 10 squares of you a +1 racial bonus to Insight checks.


Halfling
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom
Size: Small
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common, Halfling
Skill Bonuses: +2 Acrobatics, +2 Nature
Bold: You gain a +5 racial bonus to saving throws against fear.
Nimble Reaction: You gain a +2 racial bonus to AC against opportunity attacks.
Second Chance: You can use second chance as an encounter power.

Second Chance
Luck and small size combine to work in your favor as you dodge your enemy’s attack.
Encounter
Immediate Interrupt;Personal
Effect: When an attack hits you, force an enemy to roll the attack again. The enemy uses the second roll, even if it’s lower.


Thri-Kreen
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-Light
Languages: Common, Kreen
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Nature
High Activity: You need only 4 hours to benefit from an extended rest.
Multiple Limbs: You have four limbs and hands, and can hold a weapon or shield in each one. You may take Twin-Weapon fighting multiple times, each time allowing you to attack with an additional limb for an additional +1 bonus to damage.
Thri-Kreen Flurry: You can use Thri-Kreen Flurry as an encounter power.

Thri-Kreen Flurry
You unleash a relentless assault on your enemies.
Encounter
Standard Action;Personal
Effect: You can make a single standard attack with every weapon held.
Half-Giant
Racial Traits
Average Height: 10'5”-12'7”
Average Weight: 1450-1850 lb.

Half-giant
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 Squares
Vision: Normal

Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance, +2 Intimidate
The Bigger They Are: Half giants start with 2 extra healing surges
Over-sized: Halfgiants can use weapons as though they were one size bigger than they are. Also any time a halve giant would be knocked down he may make a saving throw to stay standing.
Giant strenght: when using a power that pushes pull ect, add +1 to the distance.

________________________________________



Mul
Ability Scores: +2 Strength +2 Dexterity
Size: Normal
Speed: 6
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance +2 Athletics
Mul Exertion: you move at your normal speed even when it would normally be reduced by armor or a heavy load.
Mul Resiliance: You can use your second wind as a minor action instead of a standard action
Gladiator Training: You gain proficiency in the use of one Superior Weapon.

Aarakocra
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: Five Squares
Vision: Low-Light

Languages: Common, Aarakocra
Skill Bonuses: +2 Nature, +2 Perception
Aarakocran Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency with the javelin.
Flight: You can use Flight as an encounter power.

Fly
You extend your wings and take to the sky.
Encounter – Movement
Move Action Personal
Effect: You gain a speed of fly 8 until the end of your next turn.

CLASSES


Elemental Cleric (modified Cleric)

Skills: Nature. From the following class skills after, choose three more trained skills at 1st level. Diplomacy (Cha), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Nature (Wis), Religion (Int).

Class Features: Clerics do not worship deities, and instead must choose an element, which has an associated energy type. The Elements are Earth (Acid), Fire (Fire), Air (Thunder), and Water (Cold).
In addition to Undead, the Cleric’s Turn Undead class feature also targets and affects creatures that have a type opposite of the Cleric’s chosen element. Water opposes Fire and Earth opposes Air. They also get an additional Feat representing their element*. They do not gain training in rituals.
Powers: Clerics use powers taken from the Cleric list, but all powers that have the Radiant energy type, instead have the energy type of the Cleric’s chosen Element.


*I took the Channel Divinity feats and simply renamed/reflavored them. Bahumut's Shield is renamed "Stone Skin" and Corellon's Swiftness became "Wind at your Back".


Templar
Use the basic paladin class. Warlord multiclasses into cleric can also work.


Psion (modified Warlock)

Warlocks are renamed “Psions” and use the Psionic Power source instead of the Arcane Power Source.
Skills: Psionics. From the following class skills after, choose three more trained skills at 1st level. Diplomacy (Cha), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Nature (Int), Perception (Wis), Psionics (Int), or Religion (Int).
Class Features: Psions use psicrystals instead of rods, wands, or pact blades as their implement. Warlock's Curse is renamed "Psionic Focus". Fey Pact is renamed “Psychoportation”, Infernal Pact is renamed “Psychometabolism”, Star Pact is renamed “Telepathy”.



Preservers and Defiliers (modified Wizard)

Skills: Arcana. From the following class skills after, choose three more trained skills at 1st level. Arcana (Int), Bluff (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), History (Int), Nature (Int), or Religion (Int), Stealth (Dex), or Streetwise (Cha).
Class Features: Preservers use the standard Wizard rules. Defilers do not gain Implement Mastery, and instead gain Defiling Mastery.
]Defiling Mastery: Once per encounter, as a free action, you can expend a healing surge in order to add +2 to damage and to hit. +4 at paragon and +6 at epic.When performing rituals, you can expend a healing surge to gain a +5 bonus to your Arcana check.
Wizards gain Literate* as a bonus feat, even if they don't meet the prerequisites. They do not gain training in rituals.



I didn't want to have Defiling designed in such a way that it would force the party to have to follow the Defiler around as they search for ideal spots to cast spells from, and I didn't want Defiling to harm fellow players by draining their Healing Surges or HP.

In terms of flavor and fluff, both options have the cosmetic effect of killing plants and small animals, and Defiling is still the more damaging option of the two.

*Literacy is a new feat. It's essentially the same as Linguist, only you can write instead of speak languages.




General Feats

Improved Unarmed Combat
Prerequisite: None
Benefit: You gain a +2 feat bonus on attack rolls and damage with unarmed attacks.

Ritualist (replaces Ritual Caster)
Prerequisite: Trained in Arcana, Psionics, or Religion
Benefit: You can master and perform rituals of your level or lower. Even though some rituals use the Heal skill or the Nature skill, the Arcana, Psionics, or the Religion skill is required to understand how to perform rituals. You can now read and write for the purposes of creating and performing rituals.

The following rituals now use Psionics in place of their original skill(s): Comprehend Languages, Detect Object, Detect Secret Doors, Discern Lies, Eye of Warning, Forbiddance, Observe Creature, Sending, Tenser’s Floating Disk, View Location, Wizard’s (Psionic) Sight.

Literate
Benefit: Choose up to three languages that you can speak. You can now read or write those languages fluently (assuming they have a written form). You gain a +2 feat bonus to knowledge skill checks.

Armored Survivor
Prerequisite: Con 13
Benefit: When making an Endurance check against environmental dangers (such as extreme heat or cold), you can ignore armor check penalties when wearing any armor or shields with which you are proficient.

Strong Immune System
Prerequisite: Con 13
Benefit: You gain a +2 feat bonus to Endurance checks made to overcome diseases, and a +2 feat bonus on saves versus poison



Racial Feats


Defensive Mind (Half-Giant)
Prerequisite: Half-Giant
Benefit: You gain a +5 feat bonus to saving throws against powers with the Psychic keyword.

Powerful Blow (Half-Giant)
Prerequisite: Half-Giant
Benefit: When you score a critical hit with a 2 handed weapon, you can push the target up to 2 squares.

Mul Gladiator (Mul)
Prerequisite: Mul
Benefit: You gain proficiency with and a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with the flail, heavy flail, and all picks.

Thri-Kreen Hunter (Thri-Kreen)
Prerequisite: Thri-Kreen
Benefit: You gain proficiency with and a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with the chatchka (shurkien) and gythka (see new weapons).


Poison Bite (Thri-Keen)
Prerequisite: Level 11, Thri-Kreen
Benefit: You can use Poison Bite as an encounter power.

Poison Bite,Thri-Kreen Racial Power
You deliver a bite dripping with strength sapping venom.
Encounter, Poison
Standard Action, Melee 1
Target: One Creature
Attack: Str or Dex vs Fortitude
Hit: 1d6+Con damage and target is weakened. (save ends)
+2 to hit and 2d6+Con damage at 11th level and +4 to hit and 3d6+Con damage at 21st level.


Halfling Warrior (Halfling)
Prerequisite: Halfling
Benefit: You gain proficiency with and a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with all slings and spears.



Wild Talent Feats



Control Metabolism (Wild Talent)
Benefit: You gain a +2 feat bonus to endurance checks versus the effects of starvation, thirst, suffocation, and extreme temperatures.


Trance (Wild Talent)
Benefit: Rather than sleep, you enter a meditative state known as trance. You need to spend 4 hours in this state to gain the same benefits others gain from taking a 6-hour extended rest. While in a trance, you are fully aware of your surroundings and notice approaching enemies and other events as normal.

Hostile Mind (Wild Talent)
Prerequisite: Cha 13, Wis 13
Benefit: Whenever you are subjected to a power that uses the Psychic keyword and requires a saving throw, you automatically fail your first save. When you do, your attacker takes 1d6 + Charisma psychic damage. Increase damage to 2d6 + Charisma modifier damage at 11th level and 3d6 +6 Charisma modifier damage at 21st level.

Up the Walls (Wild Talent)
Prerequisite: Sure Climber
Benefit: You can move up to your base speed up a sheer vertical surface, provided that you begin and end your turn on a stable horizontal surface.

Synchronization (Wild Talent)
Benefit: When using the Aid Other option, you receive a +2 bonus to your attack, skill, or ability check, and your designated ally receive a +3 bonus instead of +2 to their next check.

Synchronization (Wild Talent)
Benefit: When using the Aid Other option, you receive a +2 bonus to your attack, skill, or ability check, and your designated ally receive a +3 bonus instead of +2 to their next check.

Empath (Wild Talent)
Prerequisite: Trained in the Diplomacy and Insight skills
Benefit: You can Use the Diplomacy and Insight skill to notice and imrpove the attitudes of beasts, magical beasts, and humanoids, even if they have an intelligence less than 1 or do not share a common language. You gain a +1 feat bonus to Diplomacy checks.

Telekinesis (Wild Talent)
Benefit: You can use Telekinesis as an at-will power.

Telekinesis, Wild Talent Power
You gesture forward toward an object nearby, and a glowing field envelops the object, lifts it into the air, and moves it where you wish.
,Psionic,At-Will Conjuration
Standard Action,Ranged 5
Effect: You conjure a telekinetic force in an unoccupied square within range. The force picks up, moves, or manipulates an adjacent object weighing 20 pounds or less and carries it up to 5 squares. If you are holding the object when use this power, the force can move the object into a pack, pouch, sheath, or similar container and simultaneously move one object carried or worn anywhere on your body to your hand.

As a move action, you can use the force to drop an object it is holding, and as a minor action, you can cause the hand to force up or manipulate a different object.
Sustain Minor: You can sustain the telekinetic force indefinitely.
Special: You can create only one force at a time.


Control Light (Wild Talent)
Benefit: You can use Control as an at-will power.

Control Light, Wild Talent Power
You focus on an area, and the levels of illumination in the room begin to change.
At-Will,Psionic, Zone
Standard Action,Area burst 4 within 20 squares
Effect: You create a zone in which you can increase or decrease the existing illumination by one step.
Sustain Minor: The zone persists. (maximum 5 rounds)


Mind Link (Wild Talent)
Prerequisite: Cha 13 or trained in the Psionics skill
Benefit: You can use Mindlink as an at-will power.

Mind Link, Wild Talent Power
You forge a mental bond with another, allowing you to communicate with them telepathically.
At-Will,Psionic
Standard Action,Melee Touch, Range 20
Effect: You convey a mental message of up to 25 words to a person you touched. If the target is within range, he or she receives the message mentally and can respond likewise. The link ends when the target moves out of range.
Sustain Move: You can maintain the link indefinitely.
Special: You can only Mind Link with one individual at a time.



Defensive Precognition (Wild Talent)
Benefit: You can use Telekinesis as an encounter power.

Defensive Precognition, Wild Talent Power
A brief glimmer of the future gives you time to prepare yourself for an upcoming attack.
At-Will,Psionic
Immediate Interrupt, Personal
Trigger: You are hit by an attack.
Effect: You gain a +2 bonus to your AC and Reflex defenses until the end of your turn.


Offensive Precognition (Wild Talent)
Benefit: You can use Telekinesis as an encounter power.

Offensive Precognition, Wild Talent Power
A brief glimmer of the future gives you time to adjust your attack.
Encounter, Psionic
Free, Personal
Effect: You gain a +1 power bonus to your next attack roll.


Cloud Mind (Wild Talent)
Benefit: You can use Telekinesis as an encounter power.

Cloud Mind, Wild Talent Power
With a wave of your hand, your target's senses and judgment become dulled.
Encounter, Psionic, Charm
Immediate Reaction, Personal
Attack: Cha vs Will
Effect: You gain a +2 Power Bonus on opposed Sneak, Bluff, and Diplomacy Checks against the target until the end of your next turn.


Stomp (Wild Talent)
Benefit: You can use Stomp as an encounter power.

Stomp, Wild Talent Power
Your foot slams into the ground, unleashing physical and psionic energy that unbalances your foes.
Encounter, Psionic, Charm
Standard Action, Close Blast 1
Target: All Creatures in area
Attack: Str vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Strength modifier damage and you knock the target prone.
This damage increases to 2d6+ Strength modifier damage at 11th level and 3d6+ Strength modifier damage at 21st level.


Telekinetic Leap (Wild Talent)
Benefit: You can use Telekinetic Leap as an encounter power.

Telekinetic Leap, Wild Talent Power
You spring effortlessly from the ground and cover dozens of feet in a single bond.
Encounter, Psionic
Move Action, Ranged 10
Target: You or one Ally
Effect: The target can fly up to 5 squares. If this power is used on an ally, that ally must remain in your line of sight at all times during the effect.
#45

trigun8168

Feb 13, 2009 20:15:56
this is the atlas i use to go with the above info again alot of this is from many other people.

atlas
Atlas of the Tyr Region

City States of Athas

Balic
The original Sk of Balic was cast into the black by Raajat 400 years ago. Doomed to stay there for 1000 years Adroponis discovered a one chance way to exit the black onlu 300 years into his time. However a wandering force of Drow who too had become trapped happened apon Adropinos and his ritual. At the right moment they attacked and managed to escape the black with there patron mother leaving adroponis stranded in the black to live out his 1000 year sentence. After discovering they had no way to contact there Goddess Lollth on Athas the drow ransacked Balic and took it for there own making there patron mother the new queen.

Draj
Immortal Atzetuk rules Draj and has done so for at three hundred years. He replaced the previous king and has somehow gained the ability to channel spell power to his Templars known as moon priests. Atzetuk is one of the weaker Kings of the Tyr region and is stuck between Raam to the west and the Silt Sea to the east. In some ways he has become a vassal of Dregoth who rules Raam. He has also entertained envoys from Razia of Waverly who are offering bribes for him to break his alliance with Dregoth but for now Atzetuk knows better. While Draj itself is easily defended from an invading army Atzetuk knows his city is vulnerable to the might of another Sorcerer King and Dregoth is perhaps the most powerful king of them all.


Gulg
Over the centuries few things have changed in Gulg. The Oba Lalali-Puy still rules and her subjects believe her to be the Forest Goddess although she has also taken to calling herself the rain goddess due to the slightly higher rainfall the Tyr region has been getting thanks to Sadira of Tyr. Gulg has around 18000 inhabitants and the Goddess owns everything and distributes food and water to the citizens. It is difficult if not impossible for someone to become a citizen of Gulg due to the cultural difference from the rest of the Tyr region. In Gulg nobility is earned not a birthright.
In previous centuries Gulg has maintained a fierce rivalry with the city of Nibenay although in recent centuries they are almost allies. Tension exists with Raam due to personal animosity between Dregoth and Lalali-Puy as she was one of the original champions who attacked him. Otherwise Gulg is generally regarded as to small and isolated to be a true threat to anyone. Never the less Lalali-Puy’s domain has grown due to the expansion of the crescent forest. The forest goddess has promised to renew Athas and she is quite popular among the masses.
Unknown to the other Sorcerer Monarchs Lalali-Puy has transformed herself from a Dragon to an Avangion. She has also quietly made preserving magic legal and defiling illegal upon pain of death. Unlike other Avangions she regards it as another means to more power although she does have a genuine concern about the welfare of Athas. In her mind the means justify the ends and she became an Avangion to avoid the rage period of the dragon transformation process. She has a council of advisor's which is perhaps the largest concentration of preservers on Athas.


Nibenay
In recent years Nibenay has been skirmishing with Raam to the north. It would seem that Dregoth is testing Nibenay's defenses. The Sorcerer King Nibenay has not been seen in public for nearly a century and even most of his Templars have not seen him although they seem to have retained their magic. So far his Templars have managed to retain control of the city partly through fear and partly through reform. In Nibenay it is now legal to free a slave or in rare cases a slave can purchase their own freedom and depending on a slaves talents they may even rise to a position of prominence in the cities administration. Even practicing preserving magic is no longer an automatic death sentence. Such wizards are usually either exiled from the city or are punished more severely for crimes they do actually commit.
Government: The city is run by Nibenay's Templars assisted by numerous slaves some of which have risen to high rank in the city. Only a handful of the most trusted Templars actually get to see Nibenay now. The reason for the king’s seclusion is because of the Dragon rage as Nibenay is in an advanced stage of Dragon transformation. He has somehow suppressed the rage but doing so requires all of his concentration.

Raam
In the aftermath of Dregoth's failed attempt to ascend to godhood he settled for lesser prize and seized control of Raam.Abalach-re fleed the city(she wasn’t killed in my version) and found her way to the ruins of Guestinal. There she found the cast away armies of Dregoths second generation dray. She has begun rebuilding the city and plans on one day retaking the city of Raam.
In the intervening years Dregoth has rebuilt Raam to resemble his old city of Giustenal during the height of its power. Raam has always had one of the biggest populations in the Tyr region and holds that distinction today. Raam is unable to feed its population of around 60000 beings and imports food from Draj and has increasingly become to depend on food imported from Waverly via the silt port of Break Shore.
Raam is unusual in the Tyr region as over half the population is non Human. He has further modified his Dray followers which are now considered 3rd generation Dray. They are slightly larger and bulkier than previous generations and Dregoth has managed to infuse them with a breath weapon. Members of other cities have come to call them Dragonborn due to their superficial resemblance to The Dragon.
Raam under Dregoth has dominated Draj and has sent troops against Urik and Nibenay in recent years. After a bloody defeat at the hands of Hamanu Dregoth has limited his attacks to areas Nibenay controls. Since the Sorcerer King of that city is even more reclusive than usual so far his patrols have tended to win any hostile encounters between the two cities. Some speculate it is only a matter of time before Dregoth marches in force against Nibenay. Dregoth's forces include a large number of undead and the Dread King is known to reanimate his fallen foes.

Tyr
The so called Free City of Tyr is free in name only. Centuries ago they overthrew their tyrannical King Kalak and for a few centuries a council of freemen ruled the city 100 years ago Sadira (Unaligned, Half Elf Female level 30, Wizard/Blood Mage/Sun Mage) assumed the throne of Tyr as its new Sorcerer Queen. Despite ruling the city in an erratic and impulsive manner Sadira is a popular ruler. Centuries ago Sadira learned how to tame the Cerulean Storm and has siphoned off most of its destructive power and has increased rainfall in the Ringing Mountains.
For the first time in centuries running water flows under the Elven Bridge. The new river was named the River Agis for an ancient hero of Tyr. Tyr is a superpower among the city states and can easily defeat any two of them combined should they attack Tyr. Tyr was a founding member of the Free State Alliance between itself, Altaruk and Kled. The alliance can field the largest army in the Tyr region and is one of the best equipped with elite units having iron tipped spears and officers with iron swords. Tyrian legions march side by side with heavy Dwarven infantry from Kled and battle mages from Altaruk support them magically.


Urik
Change comes slowly to Urik and has been ruled by for centuries by Hamanu. Perhaps the most powerful King on Athas he has never been defeated when he has lead Uriks forces into battle. Only Hamanu can really match Dregoth in power and the two of them have skirmished several times in recent years. Urik has benefited from the increased rainfall via Sadira and its population has grown to 55000. While not the largest army in the Tyr region Urik is generally regarded as one of the most powerful city states.
Hamanu rules Urik as a tyrant. The law in Urik is harsh and often unfair. Urik is more or less a typical city run by a Sorcerer King. The Templars hold most of the real power while various noble houses have powerful standing militias. A rumor that Hamanu hasn't seen fit to respond to speculates that he and Sadira of Tyr are lovers. While most believe it to be baseless they have been meeting each other lately. In reality they are discussing the security of Rajaats prison and Sadira barely tolerates Hamanus presence.

Waverly
The ancient city of Waverly has been resettled and rebuilt. Several centuries ago a large armada of silt schooners and barges crossed the Silt Sea. The fleet was lead by Razia and her Templars. Once a great templar in Ur-Draxa Razia managed to find a way to increase her power. The newcomers from across the sea settled on the island of Waverly and established a city on top of the old ruins. Recently Waverly emerged victorious in a war with Balic and has annexed most of the towns and villages bordering the Sea of Silt.
The people of Waverly are strange by the customs of the tablelands and their military forces seem to largely be composed of mercenaries of various races. The people tend to be conservative and very law abiding and have a clean and generally safe city. Laws are harsh and crime is rare. Criminals are usually sentenced to slavery or death. Infidelity is a capital offence in Razia and family is very important.
Waverly has a small population of around 20000 as excess population are encouraged to colonise various settlements around the Sea of Silt inder Waverly’s control and most minor criminals are sentenced to exile which is the most common form of punishment followed by slavery or death
The remaining Sorcerer Kings wonder where Razia Templars gain their spells from. It appears however that Razia is a Sorcerer Queen in her on right and a powerful one at that and she has fended off tentative assaults from various Sorcerer Kings.

Villages
Scatter throughout the wastes are a number of towns and villages. Whenever enough water of sufficient quantity to grow crops is found a village often follows. Most survive a few generations before being wiped out by resource depletion, raiders or The Dragon.

Alturak

Located at the head of the Big Fork of the Forked Tongue Estuary Alturak is part of the Free State Alliance with Tyr and Kled. It is now a large town almost a city in its own right bisected by the River Agis- the only river in the Tyr region. While still heavily fortified against giant attack the River Agis drains into the nearby silt and has created a vast area of mudflats. Farms dot the surrounding areas and papyrus is produced and exported here along with large quantities of food grown by freemen farmers. Centuries ago Alturak was a haven for members of the Veiled Alliance but now has the only magic academy on Athas. On several occasions powerful battlemages have marched side by side with forces from Tyr and Kled. Giant attacks have largely ceased as they find it difficult to wade through the mud to get to Alturak and powerful mages guard the town.

Anaeas
Anaeas is a small town located on the south west coast of Waverly Island. It is a port town and is a naval base for Waverlys silt fleet. It is the main port of Waverly and several silt schooners usually dock here each day with resources for the city. Recently a great battle was fought off the coast here and most of Balics navy was destroyed. Survivors of the battle were paraded through the streets before being sold on the slave blocks.

Break Shore
Break Shore is a busy silt port near Raam. Silt traders base out of Break Shore to trade with various groups on the Silt Island and villages located further north along the coast. Large quantities of food are shipped through Break Shore with their final destination inn Raam to feed that cities burgeoning population. The town is loyal to Waverly as Dregoth ceded the town to Razia in return for supplies for Raam.

Cromlin
Cromlin is a small town on the shores of the Silt Sea. In recent years it has fallen to forces loyal to Razia of Waverly. It is now an important shipbuilding port and Waverly maintains a small silt squadron and a mercenary garrison here. Supplies are usually dropped off here and then ferried across to Break Shore for shipment to Draj, Raam and Urik. It is likely that the merchant houses of Nibenay would like to recapture Cromlin but currently lack the resources to do so and no help would be available form Nibenay himself or his Templarate.

Kled

Kled is the third member of the Free State alliance along with Alturak and Tyr. It is a Dwarven town located above the nearly restored Dwarven city of Kemalok. The Dwarves have rediscovered long abandoned iron mines and along with Tyr produce the only known iron ore in the Tyr region. The Free State Alliance has some of the best equipped troops on Athas and on ceremonial occasion the Dwarves don ancient suits of metal armor and wield metal weapons. Over a dozen such equipped Dwarves form the Dwarven Guard in Tyr and their duty is to protect Queen Sadira at all costs and have made her safety their focus in life.

Makla
Makla is a client village of Urik, located on the shore of the Lake of Golden Dreams. It is a large fortified town which is a hub if industry. Heavily fortified by over 1000 soldiers from Urik it is a mining town for obsidian. Skilled craftsmen fashion the obsidian into fine weapons and various goods for export. Conditions in the mines are brutal and death is common although Hamanu has sent a small numbers of Templars skilled in healing magic to prolong the usefulness of the slaves here.

Ledopolus
Technically now a Ledopolus is actually 3 large Dwarven town towns. North and South Ledopolus form traditional Ledopolus. Ledo itself situated on Ledo Island is the 3rd town. Two large stone bridges link Ledopolus to Ledo Island which was formerly inhabited by giants centuries ago. The Dwarves are often busy resisting annual giant assaults on Ledo. The giants are trying to drive the Dwarves back into the silt and destroy the bridges. So far the Dwarves have managed to repulse all such assaults often due to non Dwarven mercenaries and adventuring bands hired to lend a hand driving the giants off. The Dwarves will usually let a caravan use their bridge but charge a gold piece for the privilege. All things considered it is usually a bargain as it saves many days travel around the Estuary of the Forked Tongue.

Salt View

A former slave town the inhabitants of Salt View are almost all gone. Perhaps a hundred souls inhabit this forlorn town as most of the towns population was slaughtered by The Dragon for some unknown reason. The remaining inhabitants have no where to go and it is likely they will be wiped out by raiders if aid isn’t supplied.

Ogo

Ogo is a Halfling Village that is almost the defacto capital for their race. Due to the expansion of the forest ridge Ogo has experienced rapid growth and soon may be the 1st halfling city established since the rebirth. Several step-pyramids rise from the jungle floor while halfling hunters patrol the surrounding jungle for sacrifice atop the pyramids. Ogo conducts limited trade with Urik but halfling hunters are starting to leave the jungles to drag captives back to Ogo. The town is ruled by Chief Urga- Xoo’Plith a powerful rain cleric and Psionist. Visitors to town had better have something to offer and quick before they are dragged atop a pyramid and have their hearts cut from their chest while the body is rolled down to the masses below for consumption.

Walis

Most maps of modern Athas don’t even have Walis on them. A former gold mine once existed here but the ore played out centuries ago. The town is all but abandoned as the harsh desert winds whip through the town. Few explorers return from Walis and it is rumoured that undead stalk the halls of the played out mine. Unknown to Athas at large a powerful Kaisharga has taken up residence here.


Bitter Well
Legend has it bitter well was discovered by Dwarves cutting through a thin mantle of rock revealing the sweet water below. The water level has risen in recent centuries and Bitter Well is now a verdant oasis with a small pool of surface water surrounded by palm trees. It is rumoured that the oasis has a resident druid. Small groups of travellers are welcome to refill their water skins but large caravans are advised to take the bare minimum as more than one greedy master traders caravan has gone missing in the area.

Black Waters
Black waters is located near Yaramuke. King Hamanu of Urik destroyed the city millennia ago and left it a poisoned wasteland. Numerous undead are common in the area. The water is a greasy black colour and something seems to be organising the spirits of the fallen in this forlorn place. Several wraiths have also been reported in the area.

Lake Pit
This lake is located at the northern end of the Dragons Bowl, is the largest body of water in the Tyr region. The water here is in pristine condition and the lake now covers over 35 square miles. While only 30 miles from Urik it is in a remote area due to the difficulty of reaching it Its shores teem with flora and fauna and there are numerous shrines built by water clerics. Several powerful water drakes also inhabit the lake while the area is also protected by a druidic circle. A power water elemental wielding powerful clerical magic and psionics also resides in the lake. A sunken city of a bygone age is also rumoured to be in submerged caverns below the lake. Explorers with powerful magic have attempted to reach the caverns but most either fail to come back or are convinced by the local denizens to find a more productive use of their talents.

Lake of Golden Dreams
The water of this lake is barely drinkable and has a strong sulphur taste. Clouds of thick yellow steam also cover the lake. A tribe of Halfings has also taken up residence around the lake as they believe it to be some sort of sacred site. These Halflings seem to be slightly more civilised than their better known kin and like their food cooked. Captives taken for the dinner table are thrown into the lake alive and boiled until well done. If approached carefully it is possible to trade with them and such merchants are often invited for a feast. The Halflings regard it as rude to turn the feast down and may take offence and throw the intruders into the lake.

Silver Spring
Once the domain of an elf tribe this spring, marks the edge of the territory claimed by the Free State Alliance. A small fort with a garrison of 50 soldiers guards the spring and charge a piece of silver for access to the spring. Their commander has made efforts to improve the spring however and its water is quite drinkable. A powerful water cleric tends to the spiritual needs of the garrison and travellers.

Grak’s Pool

Once the domain of a legendary half elf name Grak the pool is protected by a large mud brick fortress and over 80 mercenaries. Grak is now some sort of title. Grak Liliana Hantaz a powerful Mul preserver commands the garrison here and she has driven off numerous raiders with her battle magic. Even visiting Templars are respectful towards her authority. Several elven tribes also visit here and sell various magic trinkets. Scrolls and potion fruits are often available for sale and rarely a metal weapon.

Lost Oasis
Several centuries ago someone sculpted a beautiful fountain here. A geyser of water shoots forth from a white marble fountain depicting a being of ethereal beauty. The surrounding area has been washed clean of salt by the geyser. Verdant trees surround the oasis and a large pool of water has formed and is almost 2 yards deep in the middle and is 50 yards long by 20 yards wide. Peaceful tranquillity seems to linger in the area and it is rumoured the site is sacred to the legendary Pyreen.

The Mud Palace
Located in a remote area of the Tyr region the mud palace is in an inland silt basin. At the centre of the basin there is a huge mudflat with a small island in the middle covered in jungle. A magnificent castle rises out of the mud and looks to be inhabited. Traveller’s tales seem to mention eldritch lights and knights riding air drakes in the area. It is recommended you avoid the area assuming you have some way of reaching the island anyway.

Islands
Located in the sea of silt are a wide variety of islands. They are virtually impossible to get to without powerful magic or psionics unless you have access to some sort of silt vessel or have a friendly giant or two you an convince to carry you out to them.

Ledo
A clan of giants used to live here but they were wiped out by the Dwarves of Ledopolus. The island is now home to the town of Ledo and various villages of Dwarves. Several forts have also been constructed on the island to fight off incessant giant attacks.

The Dragons Palate

This long narrow island is formed by a ridge of mountains. The peaks receive rainfall which has increased in recent decades via Sadira’s weather magic. Streams cascade down the side of the mountains and the island is surrounded by fertile mudflats. A small kingdom of giants has established themselves on the island and they are happy to trade with outsiders if approached right. The giants are addicted to kank honey which they ferment into an alcoholic brew but such treats are rare. The giants grow various crops on the mudflats and a Aaracokra have also made their home on the island. The mountains are also covered in trees and brush and are home to numerous colourful birds the giants seem to regard as almost sacred. The giant king is also a powerful air cleric.

Sirens Song

For centuries this island was home to a strange haunting song that echoed through the surrounding area. Tales were told of mesmerised travellers mindlessly walking into the silt to reach the island. The song is now silent and some brave souls have managed to reach the island. Their reports seem to indicate strange ruins on the top of the hills of this island that appear almost organic in nature. However few have made it back as somehow several tribes of vicious Halflings have taken up residence on the island. The Halfings seem to be psionists and are led by a preserver/psion of great power.

Waverly
The isle of Waverly is home to the city of the same name. A fertile island the people of Waverly have built several villages here and the isle receives regular rainfall from the remnants of the Cerulean Storm. Most of the island is dedicated to agriculture to support the city of Waverly and fine grapes are grown here. A rare berry is also grown here which is used to make purple clothe which is sold at a premium to agents of various Sorcerer Kings throughout the region.
Ancient piers dot the coast of Waverly. Most have been restored and are in use by the city state. A small forest grows in the south east which is used for wood to construct the fleet of Waverly although they also import lumber from various colonies so they don’t deplete the local supply.

Lake Island
Lake Island is a lush rainforest covered active volcano. The caldera forms a natural lake that has filled with water. Lush grass covers the island on the lower slopes and provides fodder for kanks and erdlus. The lake at the top is quite warm and steam rises form the lake and the island gradually gets bigger each year. There is a small outpost from Waverly on the island and they are exploring the island for mineral deposits. A handful of giants also live here and they enjoy throwing interlopers into the lake. It is rumoured that the giants practice some sort of religious practice that involves letting their dead rest in the lake. The bodies are weighted down with valuables and a vast treasure resides at the bottom of the lake. Or so the tale goes.

Ruins
Numerous ruins dot the Tyr regions dating from ancient days. The sand holds many secrets of the past. Below are some of the more well known ruins in the Tyr region.

Arkhold
The ruins of Arkhold are largely covered by the desert sands. A ruined castle that has been plundered overlooks the ruins atop a nearby hill. The sand often shifts revealing more of the ruins below. Travellers have often recovered metal weapons from the ruins in ages past but little remains now. A small band of mercenaries have set up camp within the ruins of the castle but what they want is unknown.

Bleak Tower
This circular tower rises from the shore of the silt sea forlorn and long abandoned. A green eldritch light still burns at night perhaps to guide long lost ships to shore. When the wind picks up loud bellowing sounds can be heard from the tower. In recent years a silt cleric has taken up residence and now silt can be seen trickling from the top of the tower.

Kalidnay
Kalidnay was once a large city state thousands of years ago. A large cracked ziggurat dominates the ruins of the city here. In its destruction the city was looted and the ruins of the former Sorcerer Kings palace and templar district only hint at the cities former opulence. Some strange Templars have settled in the ruins and they are restoring a few building. It is unknown who they follow but something seems to be stirring in the ruins. Slaves have been seen being lead into the cracked ziggurat never to be seen again.
Truth is Kalid-ma has “returned” taking over the body of his High templar. He is using the slaves to transform his new form into a dragon. He has thought of returning to his own sleeping body but is too afraid he will re-enter his rage and once again be struck down.

Bodach
For hundreds of years the ruins of Bodach has had a dire reputation as the haven of numerous undead creatures. It would seem that they have finally found their rest as the desert sands have all but swallowed the city. Powerful preservers have cleared out a small section of the ruins and air using wind spells to clear the sand. It is unknown what they are looking for but it is rumoured they call themselves Wind Mages. Whatever they have done it seems they have finally brought rest to the walking dead of Bodach.

Giustenal
The ruins of Giustenal lie at the edge of the silt sea .The former domain of the Sorcerer King Dregoth he abandoned his former domain to rule the city state of Raam. A strange creature used to reside in the ruins known as the Caller in Darkness and it would lure travellers to their death. A strange dragon like race known as the Dray seem to have claimed the ruins .Now ruled by Abalach-Re they work to re-build the city and hope to one day get revenge on Dregoth. The Dray once were loyal to Dregoth but he abandoned the city centuries ago when his planned ascension failed and he conquered Raam instead. Perhaps he blamed them for his failure but who knows?

Yaramuke
Another ruin of a once beautiful city state, little now remains. The city was destroyed millennia ago by Hamanu of Urik over some difference of opinion with its former queen Sielba. According to legend Sielba was a beauty worth dying for but she was destroyed over some quarrel about mining rights in the Smoking Crown. Piles of rubble now remain half buried by the desert sands. The magic Hamanu wrought was so terrible the land remains cursed to this day. Several druids are scattered around the surrounding area and are trying to remove the taint of Hamanus magic.
Little do the other SK’s know Kalaks now undead form has taken up residence here and has summoned a small group of elemental clerics to help raise his undead army. How Kalak returned from death is unknown but there is always a shadowy figure hiding nearby him at all times.


Other Points of Interest
While the dark sun beats down upon the and there are numerous interesting landmarks to be seen.

Dragons Bowl
By legend this basin was formed by the birth if the first great dragon. While unlikely this feature is a wonder in its own right. While at the nexus of three important trade routes it is difficult to reach as you have to traverse several thousand feet of treacherous cliffs to reach the bottom. It is much easier to use magic or psionics to make the trip. At the bottom is Lake Pit a last reminder of what Athas once was. The bowl is under the protection of several air and water clerics and small shrines to elemental air dot the cliffs leading down into the bowl. Over the years some clerics have developed a tradition of entombing their dead inside caves that dot the cliffs. Tomb raiders often set of various magical wards placed on the tombs or are often pushed off the cliffs as some of the wards summon air elementals to punish intruders.

Mekillot Mountains
These mountains vaguely resemble a great Mekillot prone on the ground. The mountains contain the near deserted village of Salt View. There are sites sacred to the desert elves here and on the peaks of the mountains strange ruins may be found resembling organic rock.




Beyond the Tyr Region
Blue Shrine
Celik
Once ruined Celik has been rebuilt and is ruled by House Mareneth which has managed to eliminate most rival trading houses of any power in the Tyr region. Celik is a very beautiful and green city with lush public gardens and a population approaching 20000. The water is drawn from underground aquifers and unlike the city states to the north no Sorcerer King rules Celik. Celik produces excess food and over half its populations are slaves. Here snbakles are regarded as holy and there is a strong serpent theme in the artwork of the city. A council of trade lords from house Mareneth rules Celik. Unknown to the rest of Athas house Mareneth was infiltrated centuries ago by the Yuan-Ti who now control Celik as an outpost of Orkoth which lies beyond the Jagged Cliffs. The ancient empire of the Yuan-Ti is being reborn and according to the elders of House Mareneth it is only a matter of time before they entwine the Tyr region in their coils.


Kreen Lands
The Kreen Lands are the lands of the former Kreen Empire located beyond the Jagged Cliffs. Centuries ago there was a massive earth quake that granted the empire access to the Tyr region. The empire mobilised for war and sent advance scouts into the Tyr region. Zik’ Chil priests of change has even some Kreen so they could climb the cliffs and assault the Halflings of Thamasku. The ravenous Kreen quickly overran the hinterlands and flanked the Ringing Mountains to the north and south and were poised for a massive assault on the Tyr region and even briefly laid siege to Tyr and Urik. However some life shapers from Thamasku which was also under assault form the Kreen had the final say.

While the Halflings of Thamasku believed life was sacred they realised that in nature life forms would compete for dominance. Although saddened they releases a plague virus that only effected the Kreen. The plague decimated the invasion force and as the troops were recalled plague broke out in the heartlands of the empire. Over 95% of the Kreen population were killed and the empire collapsed. Centuries later the population has almost recovered and the savannah is now the scene of the Kreen Civil War. Various factions and sub races are struggling over limited resources and the Zik’Chil seek to re-establish the empire and expand once again.

Kurn
The city state of Kurn lies in ruins and has been abandoned to the desert. The former Sorcerer King Oronis got involved in a war with Eldaarich due to one of Daskinor’s delusions. The people were scattered although precious few were captured by Daskinor’s slavers. Oronis simply scattered his people and they regrouped at New Kurn after fleeing west into the mountains

New Kurn
still ruled by Oronis and has been moved into the Feywild after Kurn was devastated.

PLANES

The Fey(Wild) is a savage place of vast desert and oasis and home of the Eladrin and Shifters who are bloodthirsty savages much like the halflings. However they dislike athas and prefer to stay in the Wild.You can only enter the Wild at a place that has not been defiled, but many places of the Wild are deadly deserts mirroring the defiled places on Athas. New Kurn has been transported there by Oronis to escape Draskinor's forces.

The Shadowfell is the Black .Deep in the Black lies the Hollow, the eternal prision of Rajaat, which is guarded by Death Giants and Death Titans.

The Gray is the nearly impenetrable border between Athas and the Astral Sea and Athas and the Elemental Chaos, but the Gray has been weakened by the events leading to the creation of the Cerulean storm.
#46

Barbarossa_Rotbart

Feb 14, 2009 5:50:58
@yashugan00:
Not sure if agree with the implication of Defiling being Just a careless way of collecting energy. I'd say defiling is HARDER to accomplish than normal arcane use and that one would need to be better at arcana to pull it off.
Fluff wise defiling totally overpowers normal users, that has to be reflected somehow. Crunch/rule wise, we'd still need to keep it balanced and thats difficult. I like your idea of giving the Defiling power a specific damage type, though I'm not sure it should be necrotic. How about an arcane attack power that does total or half psionic damage? Interesting if people have more ideas on this.

I have disagree totally. Defiling is much easier than preserving. Take a look at the novels or every fluff text. There you will read that they had to be carefull withh the collecting the energy for their spells or they defile the surrounding area.

See the link to a Dark Sun 4e blog if posted.
Another way to simulate this would be that you count the squares from your defiler to the nearest x squares with plant life. That would be the defiling radius.

ok, what about x squares gives x advantage? More defiling should give increasing amount of advantage no?

I just meant the defiling radius. Instead of using the systme from 2e, we should use a much easier system. You get no advantage of defiling a bigger area.

Defiling feats, thats a great idea. Maybe that could be the feat you'd have to take to 'learn' the defiling technique. Which can then be used along with any arcane power/attack.

Another misunderstanding. Those defiling powers you have posted could be seen as feat-linked powers. Still every arcane spell user is a defiler if they does not collect the energy for their spells carefully. And there are feats (and powers you gain through some of these feats) which give you some bonus if you defile, but taking those feats make you a real defiler.
So for becomig a dragon you need to have some of those feats, and for becoming an avangion you must not have a single of those feats.

Are they really free?
Take alook at the free cities:
- Kurn has been destroyed and New Kurn has been moved into the Wild.
- Balic is ruled by the Drow.
- Raam is ruled by Dregoth.
- Draj is ruled by an alliance of templars and evil psionicists.
- Tyr is ruled again by a Sorcerer-Queen (Sadira, the Sun Goddess, the eternal Queen of Tyr)
You could argue that Nibenay and Gulg are now also free cities, but that's not really the case.

Did not know that, thanks for explaining.

That are no official events, but ideas of mine which are oartially used by Trigun.

Several new ideas:
- There are no Dragonborn preservers.
- The Dragonborn are the Dray who survived Dregoths attempt to attain godhood.
- That attempt should be the catalyst for the return of Kalidnay, the arrival of the Drow and the restructuring of the planes
- The other events (Conquest of Raam, Alliance of the Ciyt-States, Destruction of Kurn etc.) should happen years later.

Not sure what you are talking about here. Could you Elaborate?

Just a couple of ideas for Trigun.


@trigun8168:
Some questions and suggestions

Veiled Alliance: You've mentioned the 'alliance' between Tyr, Nibenay and Gulg in the races and classes entry but not in the atlas entry. Is there an 'alliance' or is ther not?
Dragonborn: There are no Dragonborn preservers and the Dragonborn are the Dray who survived Dregoths attempt to attain godhood. I think that would work much better than the 3rd generation Dray thing.
Templars: They should not be limited to paladins. Clerics should also be able to become templars.
Psion: I think that we should wait. The warlock should be a normal (but rare) arcane class with the same potential to become defilers or preservers as any other arcane class.
Abalach-re: Stay as close as possible to canon.Sadira killing, but her reborn into a new bodyand found by her templars would work much better than ignoring the original events, won't it?
The entry to Eldaarich is missing as is the mention of Andropinis and his fate in the entry about the black.
#47

kalthandrix

Feb 19, 2009 8:21:20
The best thing that could happen to DS in a new edition would be to burn the 4th edition and begin development on a version that would use the fixes to 3.5 that Paizo has done...hands down because 4th blows gith!

Oh - and HI everyone!
#48

brun01

Feb 19, 2009 11:06:18
The best thing that could happen to DS in a new edition would be to burn the 4th edition and begin development on a version that would use the fixes to 3.5 that Paizo has done...hands down because 4th blows gith!

Oh - and HI everyone!

Or just keep using the 3.5 rules with the DS Core Rules r7 we published today :P

Who are you again?
#49

kalthandrix

Feb 19, 2009 11:14:16
Or just keep using the 3.5 rules with the DS Core Rules r7 we published today :P

Who are you again?

See, that is also the problem...the new material is written by you - and I am sure that there are not a lot of people here who can understand the clicks and whistles of your gibberish language :P

Oh - and did you notice that the Sig-asaur still lives...how awesome is that!
#50

brun01

Feb 19, 2009 11:16:54
Gah! It's the sigazord! Run!