ideas for mutant theme - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

ideas for mutant theme

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zylo_drizzt
Oct 21, 2010 14:50:48
ok so gamma world is out, how to make the character origins as themems? also i have heard some use spell scarred as a theme, does it work?
#2
teamfireyleader
Oct 24, 2010 14:51:33 wrong forum I'm afraid, mate. This should either have gone in the Gamma World forum, or the Houserules forum.
#3
greyorm
Oct 24, 2010 15:31:13
wrong forum I'm afraid, mate. This should either have gone in the Gamma World forum, or the Houserules forum.

No, this is the right forum: Athas is full of mutants and rules for a mutant theme would fit the setting quite well.
#4
zylo_drizzt
Oct 24, 2010 21:27:19 well it seems wrong enough considering only two people have made a remark in 3 days and only to argue wether or not this is the wrong forum. So can we get others to comment or should we just let it go.
#5
greyorm
Oct 24, 2010 22:06:58
well it seems wrong enough considering only two people have made a remark in 3 days and only to argue wether or not this is the wrong forum. So can we get others to comment or should we just let it go.

I would make suggestions on how to do so, but I'm only starting to learn 4th Edition and haven't even begun to touch on building themes yet.
#6
Kye_Tyrad
Oct 25, 2010 8:59:33 Mutations have always played a role in Dark Sun. The Pristine Tower is the main cause of the mutations. A while ago there was a table or chart that someone created where the DM could roll and it would specify what mutation occurred...e.g. grow extra fingers, sprout branches, etc. I will have to look and find out if I might have a copy of it somewhere... A chart could easily be used and maybe a theme, but as a DM I would pursue it along the lines similar to the random wild talents on page 81 of the DSCS.
#7
ian.thomson
Oct 25, 2010 11:36:55
I had actually planned on doing it before they started releasing previews of the mutations in Gamma World. Now I'm not, although I may allow someone to play a straight GW character (minus guns and omega tech... maybe), because I understand they are as a whole balanced against D&D characters, but individual powers are not. From what I've seen and heard, GW characters get fewer powers, and they're less reliable, but they're a lot more powerful, so one can't just take a few powers out of GW and turn them into theme powers for DS.

However, treating the mutations in the same manner as wild talents seems like a good idea. Perhaps come up with 10 mutations, and then turn the wild talents chart into a d20-based "wild talents or mutations" chart. Alternatively, 10 mutations, 10 special backgrounds (in addition to regular ones), then roll 1d6 (1-2: wild talents, 3-4: mutations, 5-6: +2 bonus to random skill because of special background). ((For example, "heir to a templar" would get a +2 bonus to intimidate checks.)) I'd suggest more mutations, but it'd be a better idea to not have mutations outnumber wild talents.
#8
Kye_Tyrad
Oct 25, 2010 12:15:20 I guess I would maintain the wild talents as fairly widespread and most every PC would have some sort of psionic ability, wild talent or otherwise.

IMO, mutations should be kept to PCs (or maybe some NPC's) that have travelled near the pristine tower. If they are wounded near the tower, then the DM could roll on that chart for the mutation. I might only allow the PC to start with a mutation if they came up with a good storyline of why they were near the pristine tower and then only if the game starts in that vicinity of Athas.
#9
ian.thomson
Oct 25, 2010 14:29:42
Mutations are just evolution at work. While the Pristine Tower explains so many heavily mutated creatures in such a short period of time, Athas is hectic enough that there would be regular "nature rolled instead of using point buy" mutants, and they would have noticable effects. Wild talents are an example of this.

If the Pristine Tower were responsible for a significant portion of the weird crap on Athas, the Sorcerer-Kings would have long since dropped a Wal-Mart on top of it so they wouldn't have to deal with "abominations." While it is a valid explanation for some of the weirder mutations, calling on the Pristine Tower to explain most, or even many, of the mutations is akin to Intelligent Design*: unnecessary fantastic additions to scientific explanations that stand on their own.

*Before anyone tries to turn this into a religious discussion, I'm Baptist, but I don't try to shove my religion into science just like I don't want my religion judged by science.

I'm not calling for making Dark Sun scientifically accurate, but regular evolutionary mutation already provides enough justification for mutants on Athas, especially when we consider it's a fantasy world.

From a balance issue, having mutations and wild talents be on the same chart doesn't affect anything more than the wild talents do. Having them in addition to the wild talents gives the PCs more power and unbalances the game. If acquired in game, I'd have them either:
-act as a boon (and conut toward their treasure total)
-replace an existing power
-require a saving throw to prevent bad stuff
-affect ability scores the way undead grafts do
#10
Kye_Tyrad
Oct 25, 2010 15:49:20 I could definitely see it have a chance at replacing an existing power...that is easy to work with.

The saving throw to prevent some of the bad things would be interesting to incorporate. I would incorporate a saving throw regardless of a boon or bane effect on the PC...at least in my campaign.

I just finished re-reading the Amber Enchantress again, so it was interesting to see this discussion about mutations and how much the Pristine Tower affects a wounded creature or person.
#11
ian.thomson
Oct 25, 2010 18:56:28 Well, the saving throws idea came to me from the overcharge saves that some of the powers have in Gamma World. A mutation that allows a character to, say, heal his wounds might have to make a saving throw when he uses it to not lose a couple of healing surges without regaining HP.
#12
Kye_Tyrad
Oct 25, 2010 23:10:15 I finally found the mutations table I was thinking about. It was created for the Dregoth Ascending part 3 adventure found on Athas.org. It was created for 3rd edition and quite a few of the mutations could be used as is without to much adaptation.

#13
Pennarin
Oct 26, 2010 17:26:50 The two places that once created mutations in 2e were the Pristine Tower and the swamp at the base of the Jagged Cliffs. In 4e there's no mention of the swamp's mutations, and the Tower is not pointed out as the source of its own mutations (but sits in the middle of the Beastbarrens, a place prone with mutations), and the sunwarped areas are now mutation prone as well...and can be located anywhere.

An easy conclusion is that Dark Sun would greatly benefit from a mutation mechanic. Since Gamma World is essentially 4e-based, we could derive from it an homebrewed Athasian table.
#14
ian.thomson
Oct 27, 2010 15:20:40 I've been doing my best to keep track of any information on Gamma World that's been released (because I'm almost considering abandoning a DS game to play GW instead), and I don't know that it'd be easy to derive a mutation table for that.

GW characters get fewer powers, and their powers are less reliable, but are balanced by being way more powerful, and supplemented with guns and omega tech. GW weapons are also about twice as powerful (daggers do 2d6, a good club would do 2d10), but generally aren't modified by powers. GW mutations operate as powers.

GW and D&D characters as a whole are equal in power, but individual powers are far from equal. However, I think it should be possible to compose a party with characters from D&D and GW, with the occasional on-the-spot conversion (when the fighter hands his 1d8 longsword to the mutant, it becomes a 2d10 heavy melee weapon).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zylo_drizzt Oct 21, 2010 14:50:48	ok so gamma world is out, how to make the character origins as themems? also i have heard some use spell scarred as a theme, does it work?
#2 teamfireyleader Oct 24, 2010 14:51:33	wrong forum I'm afraid, mate. This should either have gone in the Gamma World forum, or the Houserules forum.
#3 greyorm Oct 24, 2010 15:31:13	wrong forum I'm afraid, mate. This should either have gone in the Gamma World forum, or the Houserules forum. No, this is the right forum: Athas is full of mutants and rules for a mutant theme would fit the setting quite well.
#4 zylo_drizzt Oct 24, 2010 21:27:19	well it seems wrong enough considering only two people have made a remark in 3 days and only to argue wether or not this is the wrong forum. So can we get others to comment or should we just let it go.
#5 greyorm Oct 24, 2010 22:06:58	well it seems wrong enough considering only two people have made a remark in 3 days and only to argue wether or not this is the wrong forum. So can we get others to comment or should we just let it go. I would make suggestions on how to do so, but I'm only starting to learn 4th Edition and haven't even begun to touch on building themes yet.
#6 Kye_Tyrad Oct 25, 2010 8:59:33	Mutations have always played a role in Dark Sun. The Pristine Tower is the main cause of the mutations. A while ago there was a table or chart that someone created where the DM could roll and it would specify what mutation occurred...e.g. grow extra fingers, sprout branches, etc. I will have to look and find out if I might have a copy of it somewhere... A chart could easily be used and maybe a theme, but as a DM I would pursue it along the lines similar to the random wild talents on page 81 of the DSCS.
#7 ian.thomson Oct 25, 2010 11:36:55	I had actually planned on doing it before they started releasing previews of the mutations in Gamma World. Now I'm not, although I may allow someone to play a straight GW character (minus guns and omega tech... maybe), because I understand they are as a whole balanced against D&D characters, but individual powers are not. From what I've seen and heard, GW characters get fewer powers, and they're less reliable, but they're a lot more powerful, so one can't just take a few powers out of GW and turn them into theme powers for DS. However, treating the mutations in the same manner as wild talents seems like a good idea. Perhaps come up with 10 mutations, and then turn the wild talents chart into a d20-based "wild talents or mutations" chart. Alternatively, 10 mutations, 10 special backgrounds (in addition to regular ones), then roll 1d6 (1-2: wild talents, 3-4: mutations, 5-6: +2 bonus to random skill because of special background). ((For example, "heir to a templar" would get a +2 bonus to intimidate checks.)) I'd suggest more mutations, but it'd be a better idea to not have mutations outnumber wild talents.
#8 Kye_Tyrad Oct 25, 2010 12:15:20	I guess I would maintain the wild talents as fairly widespread and most every PC would have some sort of psionic ability, wild talent or otherwise. IMO, mutations should be kept to PCs (or maybe some NPC's) that have travelled near the pristine tower. If they are wounded near the tower, then the DM could roll on that chart for the mutation. I might only allow the PC to start with a mutation if they came up with a good storyline of why they were near the pristine tower and then only if the game starts in that vicinity of Athas.
#9 ian.thomson Oct 25, 2010 14:29:42	Mutations are just evolution at work. While the Pristine Tower explains so many heavily mutated creatures in such a short period of time, Athas is hectic enough that there would be regular "nature rolled instead of using point buy" mutants, and they would have noticable effects. Wild talents are an example of this. If the Pristine Tower were responsible for a significant portion of the weird crap on Athas, the Sorcerer-Kings would have long since dropped a Wal-Mart on top of it so they wouldn't have to deal with "abominations." While it is a valid explanation for some of the weirder mutations, calling on the Pristine Tower to explain most, or even many, of the mutations is akin to Intelligent Design: unnecessary fantastic additions to scientific explanations that stand on their own. Before anyone tries to turn this into a religious discussion, I'm Baptist, but I don't try to shove my religion into science just like I don't want my religion judged by science. I'm not calling for making Dark Sun scientifically accurate, but regular evolutionary mutation already provides enough justification for mutants on Athas, especially when we consider it's a fantasy world. From a balance issue, having mutations and wild talents be on the same chart doesn't affect anything more than the wild talents do. Having them in addition to the wild talents gives the PCs more power and unbalances the game. If acquired in game, I'd have them either: -act as a boon (and conut toward their treasure total) -replace an existing power -require a saving throw to prevent bad stuff -affect ability scores the way undead grafts do
#10 Kye_Tyrad Oct 25, 2010 15:49:20	I could definitely see it have a chance at replacing an existing power...that is easy to work with. The saving throw to prevent some of the bad things would be interesting to incorporate. I would incorporate a saving throw regardless of a boon or bane effect on the PC...at least in my campaign. I just finished re-reading the Amber Enchantress again, so it was interesting to see this discussion about mutations and how much the Pristine Tower affects a wounded creature or person.
#11 ian.thomson Oct 25, 2010 18:56:28	Well, the saving throws idea came to me from the overcharge saves that some of the powers have in Gamma World. A mutation that allows a character to, say, heal his wounds might have to make a saving throw when he uses it to not lose a couple of healing surges without regaining HP.
#12 Kye_Tyrad Oct 25, 2010 23:10:15	I finally found the mutations table I was thinking about. It was created for the Dregoth Ascending part 3 adventure found on Athas.org. It was created for 3rd edition and quite a few of the mutations could be used as is without to much adaptation.
#13 Pennarin Oct 26, 2010 17:26:50	The two places that once created mutations in 2e were the Pristine Tower and the swamp at the base of the Jagged Cliffs. In 4e there's no mention of the swamp's mutations, and the Tower is not pointed out as the source of its own mutations (but sits in the middle of the Beastbarrens, a place prone with mutations), and the sunwarped areas are now mutation prone as well...and can be located anywhere. An easy conclusion is that Dark Sun would greatly benefit from a mutation mechanic. Since Gamma World is essentially 4e-based, we could derive from it an homebrewed Athasian table.
#14 ian.thomson Oct 27, 2010 15:20:40	I've been doing my best to keep track of any information on Gamma World that's been released (because I'm almost considering abandoning a DS game to play GW instead), and I don't know that it'd be easy to derive a mutation table for that. GW characters get fewer powers, and their powers are less reliable, but are balanced by being way more powerful, and supplemented with guns and omega tech. GW weapons are also about twice as powerful (daggers do 2d6, a good club would do 2d10), but generally aren't modified by powers. GW mutations operate as powers. GW and D&D characters as a whole are equal in power, but individual powers are far from equal. However, I think it should be possible to compose a party with characters from D&D and GW, with the occasional on-the-spot conversion (when the fighter hands his 1d8 longsword to the mutant, it becomes a 2d10 heavy melee weapon).