Images for Raam - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Images for Raam

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
turlough
Jul 20, 2010 13:29:21 I am trying to find some things to evoke the style of Raam, which is Indian as I understand it. I am trying to find counters in that style as well as pictures of buildings and other things to show my players.

So far, my google fu has failed me. While I can find lots of modern things on India, or images of modern India, as well as the myths of India, I need to find clothing or other images.

What have all of you used for Raam?

turlough
#2
Tectuktitlay
Jul 20, 2010 14:11:11 Take a look at the various parts of this link for a starter. In addition, keep in mind that Indian clothing such as the sari, dungarees, pajamas, etc, are all from ancient India AND still worn today. I will link more when I have time, I'm just at work at the moment.
#3
turlough
Jul 20, 2010 20:50:19 Thanks!

turlough
#4
Tectuktitlay
Jul 20, 2010 22:30:14 Here are some images of ancient Indian architecture:

Image 01
Image 02
Image 03
Image 04
Image 05
Image 06
Image 07
Image 08
Image 09
Image 10

Here are some images of clothing:

Image 01
Image 02
Image 03
Image 04
Image 05
Image 06
Image 07
Image 08
Image 09
Image 10
Image 11
Image 12

Hope that helps some more.

#5
Pennarin
Jul 20, 2010 22:57:11 Somehow the clothing is not what I envisioned, but the architecture is.
#6
cnahumck
Jul 21, 2010 2:50:39 That's cause Raam ain't Hindu or Indian, its Raam. Like all other things on Athas, things are familiar, only twisted by the nature of the world. Its ok to use inspiration from our world for Athas, but to just say that X City-State is just like Y civilization is missing the point. Maybe those places were starting points for broadstroke themes, but it just is vastly different.

Penn, what is that quote about all of Darksun being like Mogadishu? Something about Demonlords and assualt troops. I can't remember. I'm hoping someone will repost it here.

Darksun is different. Hamanu is like Hamurabi if Hamurabi had a thousand years to develop a fierce set of martial laws that made it that no one would even think to harm him. Some of the best stuff from the Lynn Abbey novels, IMHO, were the scenes that spoke of Hamanu's influence in the surrounding region, like his personal kank messangers with bells that rang that even the predators of the wastes knew to avoid. Oh, and the gang of theives thrown into a glass jug and allowed all the water they wanted but no food.

Raam is Hindu only at the briefest of glances. A look that lingers brings the darker side of things to light. All things are darker under the Darksun.
#7
visanidethdm
Jul 21, 2010 5:21:07
Somehow the clothing is not what I envisioned, but the architecture is.

Something to consider is that most of those links bring to what upperclass people would wear. Good inspiration for nobles and templars, but for the average man, you'd (literally) need some trimming.
#8
turlough
Jul 21, 2010 7:13:12 Thanks for the links, Tec!

Thanks for the ideas! I agree it's not exactly like India. I assume that contact via the merchant houses to the other cities would "dilute" it somewhat. But, I assume that the people of Raam must like their identity and so cling to it.

I also agree about the commoners versus the nobles. The commoners would have a bit more sensible and longer lasting versions of what the nobles wear.

Thanks!

turlough
#9
Tectuktitlay
Jul 21, 2010 9:09:37 Oh yes, of course the commoners would wear clothing a bit more plain. But only some. Certainly no metal jewelry, etc. The colors would still be somewhat vivid, but much less complicated in terms of pattern, number of colors used on each piece of clothing, etc. However, the basic shape of a sari, etc, are the same (and the simpler clothing I linked to is practical attire for such environs, save the most extreme examples of upperclass fashion). The hairstyles on the lower class would be simpler, as well, and their hygiene would likewise be reflected in their overall appearance.

Also, of course Raam wouldn't be identical! Turlough just asked for links to Indian clothing, architecture, etc, for inspiration. Thus, I provided what he asked for. I didn't make any statement saying, "This is what Raam should look like". However, the descriptions of clothing and appearance in books such as the Veiled Alliance supplement do suggest that their clothing IS inspired in appearance by India and Hindu fashion. So it would look similar, with an Athasian twist, and yes, some fashions from the rest of the Tablelands making an appearance of impacting the overall appearance. Of course, one should remember that India, too, experienced trade via merchants with other cultures, which influenced the look of their clothing and architecture to what we see today and historically.
#10
turlough
Jul 21, 2010 9:15:42 Again, Tec, my thanks!

Here is what I did with it: dmgaming.pbworks.com/Dark+Sun+-+Cities+-...

Thanks!

turlough
#11
Pennarin
Jul 21, 2010 12:11:42
Penn, what is that quote about all of Darksun being like Mogadishu? Something about Demonlords and assualt troops. I can't remember. I'm hoping someone will repost it here.

Here's the quote from Hiero5ant (describing the fleshing out of an Athasian city-state):
Take 20,000 illiterate peasants from the worst war-torn slums of Mogadishu. Then take 500 spoiled rich kids from Orange County and put them behind a wall in the middle of the city. Then take 500 blackshirt thugs from fascist Italy, give them military-grade firepower, and unlimited police authority. Then take a 2,000 year old genocidal demon whose every action brings the universe one step closer to destruction and who can access the innermost thoughts of any of his citizens, make him about character-level 50 and put him in charge of everything.

One of the best, evar.
#12
xlorep_darkhelm
Jul 21, 2010 12:26:29
Penn, what is that quote about all of Darksun being like Mogadishu? Something about Demonlords and assualt troops. I can't remember. I'm hoping someone will repost it here.

Here's the quote from Hiero5ant (describing the fleshing out of an Athasian city-state):
Take 20,000 illiterate peasants from the worst war-torn slums of Mogadishu. Then take 500 spoiled rich kids from Orange County and put them behind a wall in the middle of the city. Then take 500 blackshirt thugs from fascist Italy, give them military-grade firepower, and unlimited police authority. Then take a 2,000 year old genocidal demon whose every action brings the universe one step closer to destruction and who can access the innermost thoughts of any of his citizens, make him about character-level 50 and put him in charge of everything.

One of the best, evar.

Beautiful. I forgot about that one.
#13
cnahumck
Jul 21, 2010 14:12:23

Here's the quote from Hiero5ant (describing the fleshing out of an Athasian city-state):
Take 20,000 illiterate peasants from the worst war-torn slums of Mogadishu. Then take 500 spoiled rich kids from Orange County and put them behind a wall in the middle of the city. Then take 500 blackshirt thugs from fascist Italy, give them military-grade firepower, and unlimited police authority. Then take a 2,000 year old genocidal demon whose every action brings the universe one step closer to destruction and who can access the innermost thoughts of any of his citizens, make him about character-level 50 and put him in charge of everything.

One of the best, evar.

And this is why City State X does not equal Human Civilization Y.
#14
xlorep_darkhelm
Jul 21, 2010 15:29:22
And this is why City State X does not equal Human Civilization Y.

No, but Civilization Y is a "mix-in" to the above description to provide some differences between the city-states.
#15
vigilant1
Jul 21, 2010 16:22:02 According to Dark Sun's wikipedia entrance Raam's based off of Egypt. Well I guess you could mix and max customs and traditions from India and Egypt.
#16
xlorep_darkhelm
Jul 21, 2010 17:21:17
According to Dark Sun's wikipedia entrance Raam's based off of Egypt. Well I guess you could mix and max customs and traditions from India and Egypt.

That wikipedia entry is.... less than stellar.
#17
phoenix_m
Jul 21, 2010 18:21:31 And I have been basing Raam off of pre-Islam Persia, just to muddy the water even more.

Hiero5ant, I was wondering who started that - that has been the easiest way for me to describe the setting to others (though one of my players argues that she not from Orange County).
#18
RalofTyr
Jul 21, 2010 18:27:09 Hey kids in Orange County aren't rich; their parents are just deep in debt.

Most used their house as an ATM machine and they owe more than the house is worth.

Spoiled; check

Live in a walled and gated community because they are afraid of LA: check

Think they are "ghetto" and blast out rap while never stepping foot in a real ghetto: check.

Drugs: check.

DUIs: in their future.

Don't want to work and are horrible employees: check

Total flakes: check.

I can go on and on.
#19
phoenix_m
Jul 21, 2010 18:36:12 She preferrs Imperial Beach.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 turlough Jul 20, 2010 13:29:21	I am trying to find some things to evoke the style of Raam, which is Indian as I understand it. I am trying to find counters in that style as well as pictures of buildings and other things to show my players. So far, my google fu has failed me. While I can find lots of modern things on India, or images of modern India, as well as the myths of India, I need to find clothing or other images. What have all of you used for Raam? turlough
#2 Tectuktitlay Jul 20, 2010 14:11:11	Take a look at the various parts of this link for a starter. In addition, keep in mind that Indian clothing such as the sari, dungarees, pajamas, etc, are all from ancient India AND still worn today. I will link more when I have time, I'm just at work at the moment.
#3 turlough Jul 20, 2010 20:50:19	Thanks! turlough
#4 Tectuktitlay Jul 20, 2010 22:30:14	Here are some images of ancient Indian architecture: Image 01 Image 02 Image 03 Image 04 Image 05 Image 06 Image 07 Image 08 Image 09 Image 10 Here are some images of clothing: Image 01 Image 02 Image 03 Image 04 Image 05 Image 06 Image 07 Image 08 Image 09 Image 10 Image 11 Image 12 Hope that helps some more.
#5 Pennarin Jul 20, 2010 22:57:11	Somehow the clothing is not what I envisioned, but the architecture is.
#6 cnahumck Jul 21, 2010 2:50:39	That's cause Raam ain't Hindu or Indian, its Raam. Like all other things on Athas, things are familiar, only twisted by the nature of the world. Its ok to use inspiration from our world for Athas, but to just say that X City-State is just like Y civilization is missing the point. Maybe those places were starting points for broadstroke themes, but it just is vastly different. Penn, what is that quote about all of Darksun being like Mogadishu? Something about Demonlords and assualt troops. I can't remember. I'm hoping someone will repost it here. Darksun is different. Hamanu is like Hamurabi if Hamurabi had a thousand years to develop a fierce set of martial laws that made it that no one would even think to harm him. Some of the best stuff from the Lynn Abbey novels, IMHO, were the scenes that spoke of Hamanu's influence in the surrounding region, like his personal kank messangers with bells that rang that even the predators of the wastes knew to avoid. Oh, and the gang of theives thrown into a glass jug and allowed all the water they wanted but no food. Raam is Hindu only at the briefest of glances. A look that lingers brings the darker side of things to light. All things are darker under the Darksun.
#7 visanidethdm Jul 21, 2010 5:21:07	Somehow the clothing is not what I envisioned, but the architecture is. Something to consider is that most of those links bring to what upperclass people would wear. Good inspiration for nobles and templars, but for the average man, you'd (literally) need some trimming.
#8 turlough Jul 21, 2010 7:13:12	Thanks for the links, Tec! Thanks for the ideas! I agree it's not exactly like India. I assume that contact via the merchant houses to the other cities would "dilute" it somewhat. But, I assume that the people of Raam must like their identity and so cling to it. I also agree about the commoners versus the nobles. The commoners would have a bit more sensible and longer lasting versions of what the nobles wear. Thanks! turlough
#9 Tectuktitlay Jul 21, 2010 9:09:37	Oh yes, of course the commoners would wear clothing a bit more plain. But only some. Certainly no metal jewelry, etc. The colors would still be somewhat vivid, but much less complicated in terms of pattern, number of colors used on each piece of clothing, etc. However, the basic shape of a sari, etc, are the same (and the simpler clothing I linked to is practical attire for such environs, save the most extreme examples of upperclass fashion). The hairstyles on the lower class would be simpler, as well, and their hygiene would likewise be reflected in their overall appearance. Also, of course Raam wouldn't be identical! Turlough just asked for links to Indian clothing, architecture, etc, for inspiration. Thus, I provided what he asked for. I didn't make any statement saying, "This is what Raam should look like". However, the descriptions of clothing and appearance in books such as the Veiled Alliance supplement do suggest that their clothing IS inspired in appearance by India and Hindu fashion. So it would look similar, with an Athasian twist, and yes, some fashions from the rest of the Tablelands making an appearance of impacting the overall appearance. Of course, one should remember that India, too, experienced trade via merchants with other cultures, which influenced the look of their clothing and architecture to what we see today and historically.
#10 turlough Jul 21, 2010 9:15:42	Again, Tec, my thanks! Here is what I did with it: dmgaming.pbworks.com/Dark+Sun+-+Cities+-... Thanks! turlough
#11 Pennarin Jul 21, 2010 12:11:42	Penn, what is that quote about all of Darksun being like Mogadishu? Something about Demonlords and assualt troops. I can't remember. I'm hoping someone will repost it here. Here's the quote from Hiero5ant (describing the fleshing out of an Athasian city-state): Take 20,000 illiterate peasants from the worst war-torn slums of Mogadishu. Then take 500 spoiled rich kids from Orange County and put them behind a wall in the middle of the city. Then take 500 blackshirt thugs from fascist Italy, give them military-grade firepower, and unlimited police authority. Then take a 2,000 year old genocidal demon whose every action brings the universe one step closer to destruction and who can access the innermost thoughts of any of his citizens, make him about character-level 50 and put him in charge of everything. One of the best, evar.
#12 xlorep_darkhelm Jul 21, 2010 12:26:29	Penn, what is that quote about all of Darksun being like Mogadishu? Something about Demonlords and assualt troops. I can't remember. I'm hoping someone will repost it here. Here's the quote from Hiero5ant (describing the fleshing out of an Athasian city-state): Take 20,000 illiterate peasants from the worst war-torn slums of Mogadishu. Then take 500 spoiled rich kids from Orange County and put them behind a wall in the middle of the city. Then take 500 blackshirt thugs from fascist Italy, give them military-grade firepower, and unlimited police authority. Then take a 2,000 year old genocidal demon whose every action brings the universe one step closer to destruction and who can access the innermost thoughts of any of his citizens, make him about character-level 50 and put him in charge of everything. One of the best, evar. Beautiful. I forgot about that one.
#13 cnahumck Jul 21, 2010 14:12:23	Here's the quote from Hiero5ant (describing the fleshing out of an Athasian city-state): Take 20,000 illiterate peasants from the worst war-torn slums of Mogadishu. Then take 500 spoiled rich kids from Orange County and put them behind a wall in the middle of the city. Then take 500 blackshirt thugs from fascist Italy, give them military-grade firepower, and unlimited police authority. Then take a 2,000 year old genocidal demon whose every action brings the universe one step closer to destruction and who can access the innermost thoughts of any of his citizens, make him about character-level 50 and put him in charge of everything. One of the best, evar. And this is why City State X does not equal Human Civilization Y.
#14 xlorep_darkhelm Jul 21, 2010 15:29:22	And this is why City State X does not equal Human Civilization Y. No, but Civilization Y is a "mix-in" to the above description to provide some differences between the city-states.
#15 vigilant1 Jul 21, 2010 16:22:02	According to Dark Sun's wikipedia entrance Raam's based off of Egypt. Well I guess you could mix and max customs and traditions from India and Egypt.
#16 xlorep_darkhelm Jul 21, 2010 17:21:17	According to Dark Sun's wikipedia entrance Raam's based off of Egypt. Well I guess you could mix and max customs and traditions from India and Egypt. That wikipedia entry is.... less than stellar.
#17 phoenix_m Jul 21, 2010 18:21:31	And I have been basing Raam off of pre-Islam Persia, just to muddy the water even more. Hiero5ant, I was wondering who started that - that has been the easiest way for me to describe the setting to others (though one of my players argues that she not from Orange County).
#18 RalofTyr Jul 21, 2010 18:27:09	Hey kids in Orange County aren't rich; their parents are just deep in debt. Most used their house as an ATM machine and they owe more than the house is worth. Spoiled; check Live in a walled and gated community because they are afraid of LA: check Think they are "ghetto" and blast out rap while never stepping foot in a real ghetto: check. Drugs: check. DUIs: in their future. Don't want to work and are horrible employees: check Total flakes: check. I can go on and on.
#19 phoenix_m Jul 21, 2010 18:36:12	She preferrs Imperial Beach.