http://athas.org/products/LoA
I'll let Bruno handle the descriptives.
Example Champion of Rajaat (myron). I would recommend making the champions spell resistence 11+ their level for example and reducing his challenge rating by around 3-4. Compare him for example to a Solar in the MM1 that is probably superior to him and is CR20. The Champion of Rajaat Template isn't that much tougher than a MM vampire template and thats only CR+2. Essentially he is a pretty easy CR 25 critter. Probably reduce the Cr by 1 for no associated class levels (hes a multiclass spellcaster which are weak) and maybe scale back the CR modifer on the template. A rule of thumb is Myron at CR 25 equivilent in combat power to 6 level 19 PCs (CR19+CR19+CR19+Cr19+CR19+CR19=EL25). A CR 25 creature is supposed to be about 6 times more powerful than a CR 19 one or there abouts. Myron is barely twice as powerful if that. I'm alot more scared of a level 25 Druid than Myron (or even a level 20 Druid come to think of it)
The Drakes are another example with very low ACs for CR38 critters (look at the ELH for comparisons). Any epic fighter type can just go power attack crazy on them and could do 5-6 attacks per round maybe more (power attack for -25 +50 damage with a 2 handed weapon). Your beasty will die in a round or 2 maybe quicker if spellcasters are involved.
I've only played up to level 30 in an epic game but without to much min maxing a not a bad rule of thumb is.
1. Melee characters can deal 300 odd damge per round. Archers can come close as well and weapons with +5d6 damage or more are reasonably common (flaming, bane, holy etc).
2. Spellcasters can probably end a fight in 1 round (we had one cast 17 spells per round via timestop).
3. Rogues can deal about 45d6 sneak attack damahge per round maybe more and will be invisbable or blinking- non spellcasters will be flat footed most of the time barring certain creature with access to magic or exceptional senses.
Its very difficult getting CRs right above CR 25 or so as spellcasters are alot more powerful than non spellcasters and can end the fight very quickly. Consider banning timestop, polymorph, shapechange, mordenkainens disjunction. We had evil PCs at level 30 and one of the more interesting fights they got through was 4 Solars each with 4 cleric levels each riding a Wrym Gold Dragon. They won but it gives you a rough idea of the power level involved in epic games.
Also every feat in legend of Athas is a epic spellcaster/psionic feat. The book has a very magic/psionic slant to it- the classes that needed the least amount of help in Epic Levels being spellcasters and manifesters.
Thanks, Z. Your feedback is always so encouraging.
Well that's the kind of comment I would never been able to do... I never played past level 12 and I intent never to!
Thanks, Z. Your feedback is always so encouraging.
Sarcastic eh. Am I wrong though? Anyone else here actually playetested high level/epic level campaigns? Game mechanics is one thing I'm good at. Its a trend I've noticed alt in Athas.org material with monsters being quite weak for their CR. From the look of it peopel have converted them over straight from 2nd ed but without accounting for the changes to the rules. AC -10in the old edition is only AC 30 or so in 3.5.
Atahs is supposed to be brutal but when I played a 3.5 game with Athas.org material most of the monsters were essentially free xp for the PCs as alot of them lacked the hit points or AC to go toe to toe with the PCs. They're alot easier than equivilent creatures of their CR in the monster manual.
Hint houserule alot of stuff, say no to alot of epic spells and look for class varients for Druids Clerics and Wizards. Epic spellcasting is generally inherently broken. I liked the Champion of Rajaat template for example but the CR is off by a bit thats all.
Sentence structuring needs some work, alot of descriptions and sentences do not make sense. words placed wrong or lacking proper words. like I instead of I'm, and a lack of the word THE when its needed. also some words lack a letter like (S) and others. really needs to be reworked.
low CR. CR needs to be higher, epic creatures should be epic, even epic PC's should have some fear of them. Cr 22-25 is low.
Short descriptions. seems more could have been added. also sentences in the descriptions seem rushed. sometimes not making alot of sense.
Being american, english is my native language so as i read through and start to get a stead flow, reading quickly and smoothly word placement pops up and shatters my pace. really needs to be completely re-read through and worked out by someone well versed in the english language.
do not mean this to be insulting, but these things just jump out at me, the sentence structuring could make this product unenjoyable to read, yet still useful for the rules.
sorry, but i feel honesty is needed here. saying its perfect as is would be a lie.
:D
Sarcastic eh. Am I wrong though? Anyone else here actually playetested high level/epic level campaigns? Game mechanics is one thing I'm good at. Its a trend I've noticed alt in Athas.org material with monsters being quite weak for their CR. From the look of it peopel have converted them over straight from 2nd ed but without accounting for the changes to the rules. AC -10in the old edition is only AC 30 or so in 3.5.
It's a playtest release. You pin down CR by playtesting things, which means that this is an aspect that is definately open to change. If you've got the high-level epic play experience, that's good, and valuable to hear from. A lot of people don't play at those levels, and it's a very different game.
Focused playtest reports from actual gameplay (either within your campaign proper, or through playtest sessions with one-off characters) are extremely helpful in this regard as well.
Hint houserule alot of stuff, say no to alot of epic spells and look for class varients for Druids Clerics and Wizards. Epic spellcasting is generally inherently broken. I liked the Champion of Rajaat template for example but the CR is off by a bit thats all.
There are some things we can do on that front, certainly. Others ... well, fixing epic spellcasting is beyond our scope. In some things, we have to play with what we're given.
first off i really like everything in LoA. But i have found a few things.
Sentence structuring needs some work, alot of descriptions and sentences do not make sense. words placed wrong or lacking proper words. like I instead of I'm, and a lack of the word THE when its needed. also some words lack a letter like (S) and others. really needs to be reworked.
low CR. CR needs to be higher, epic creatures should be epic, even epic PC's should have some fear of them. Cr 22-25 is low.
Short descriptions. seems more could have been added. also sentences in the descriptions seem rushed. sometimes not making alot of sense.
Being american, english is my native language so as i read through and start to get a stead flow, reading quickly and smoothly word placement pops up and shatters my pace. really needs to be completely re-read through and worked out by someone well versed in the english language.
do not mean this to be insulting, but these things just jump out at me, the sentence structuring could make this product unenjoyable to read, yet still useful for the rules.
sorry, but i feel honesty is needed here. saying its perfect as is would be a lie.
Thanks for the info. It is only the beta release though, so no worries. Things will get fixed, and I believe the final release will have all the SKs, more Pyreen, and things like the Mindlords in it. And after we get feedback, things like CR and whatnot will be adjusted.
Please keep it up.
regarding the CR. after looking through the other files i have downloaded, i noticed that the CR is pretty good, matches up with past CR ratings from SK's and other powerful beings. so maybe the CR doesnt need much fine tuning at all.
thanks for all the effort and please keep it up!
I've skimmed through it yesterday and found over a hundred errors. Ommited words, misspellings, weak grammar, etc.
It's to be expected. What's not is that I'll sit on my ass and not list all of those errors and send them to [email]TEMPLARATE@ATHAS.ORG[/email].
Hint hint, people?
It's a playtest release. You pin down CR by playtesting things, which means that this is an aspect that is definately open to change. If you've got the high-level epic play experience, that's good, and valuable to hear from. A lot of people don't play at those levels, and it's a very different game.
Focused playtest reports from actual gameplay (either within your campaign proper, or through playtest sessions with one-off characters) are extremely helpful in this regard as well.
There are some things we can do on that front, certainly. Others ... well, fixing epic spellcasting is beyond our scope. In some things, we have to play with what we're given.
Epic spellcasting does kinda work if the DM puts his foot down. I found that its to hard to create epic spells that deal damage and to easy to conjure of creatures alot more powerful than the PCs. Or you can create spells that give you +20 intelligence or +50 or more on spellcraft checks. A level 21 spellcaster can in effect cast any epic spell regardless of spellcraft DC just by creating a loop of epic spells increasing spellcraft checks. Even something like epic mage armor is kinda broken. PCs turn into XYZ creatures and then cast epic mage armor on themselves and their AC may be in the 60's or even higher. Or NPC Dragon or something does the same thing and is unhittable. Or Druid wildshapes into something nasty and then casts Epic Mage Armor or creates a spell like improved epic mage armor fo +30.+40 or +50 AC.
The DM will need to say no to alot of potential epic spells.
Thats not even counting non epic spell abuse like timestop and gate, shapechange etc. Thats why its difficult to assign CRs to epic monsters and high level play IMHO doesn't work very will in 3.0/3.5. Its not cause Zardnaar is being a negative ol bastard. Any monster designed has to be able to withstand a spellcaster with timestop. One of our PCs cast 17 spells in one round for example and the amount of scrolls, wands, staffs etc an epic character has access to means that going nova if they need to won't be such a problem.
Epic play is really hard and non spelcasters tend to be in alot of trouble. Even a combo like timestop+forcecage+acidfog+ any other spell they want to use can end alot of fights more or less in one round (if the opponent doesn't have access to magic)
@ Zardnaar - From reading your posts here, you have been stating things like how players can craft epic spells that do X, Y, and Z - and you are right, they can - as long as the DM approves it. There is also the other factors of epic creation that must be addressed: time, XP, money. Crafting Epic material is really (and overly) expensive. The average wealth of a PC is not nearly enough to craft more then a bare handful of epic spells and still have money left over for their other gear that you are stating that they would have.
An aspect you are missing is that the DM has to approve the creation of things - so if a DM is a pansy, the players will run all over them and things will be broken. It is up to the DM to control and allow aspects of their game, and no accessory put out will make that any different.
Also, some of your examples are widely incorrect, don't make any since, or are totally against the rules. Your example of the time stop abuse is a big one.
How is it that one casts 17 spells during a time stop? The spell only last for 1d4+1 rounds. A spellcaster can cast one spell as a standard action and one spell as a swift action (ie quicken spell), and one as an immediate action. Seeing as how there are not really all that many spells with a casting time of immediate (there are some of course in the Spell Compendium and PHBII, but not that many), we will focus on quickened spells.
To cast more than one quickened spell per round, you would need the epic Multispell feat and unless you are taking and filling up all your high level spell slots with quickened (xxx) spells, then one would also have to take Automatic Quicken Spell (spell craft ranks of 30, so the earliest one could take it is 27th level).
So let us assume that this group of 30th level players (the max you say you have played with) had a 30th level wizard in it. A wizard of this level would get 4 Epic feats (levels 21st, 24th, 27th, and 30th) and 2 bonus feats (at 25th and 30th levels) for being a 30th level wizard. All of this makes the assumption that he has not multiclassed. So of these six Epic feats, he would have to taken Multispell twice and more than likely Automatic Quicken Spell twice (making all spells 0-6 automatically quickened, though he could take the Automatic Quickeded Spell twice at 30th and have 0-9th level spells all quickened), which would allow him to cast four spells per round and 20 spells in 5 rounds (the max for time stop).
So assuming he spent 4 of his epic feats on this combo, we would then have to look at the spells he would be casting. An average mage with at least a 24 Intelligence (reasonable considering 30th level) will only have 50 spells to cast, and it would be reasonable to think that at least a third of them would be buff or defensive in nature. This would leave him with roughly 33 combat spells. During time stop, those "frozen" in time are invulnerable to harm and cannot be targeted with spells or attacks (per the spell on pg. 294 of the PHB). Automatically we have to rule out that he cast any instant damage spells like fireball, lightning bolt, disintegrate, magic missile, meteor swarm, wail of the banshee, enervation, energy drain, ect... In order for the spells to function against those frozen in the time stop, effects would have to come from spells that lasted longer than 1 to 5 rounds. and that do not call for targeting a creature. This therefore rules out mental effects like hold, dominate, and charms. Once you take out all of those things, I am sure that you will see that this "one mage wiping out an epic rated encounter single-handedly" thing should not happen.
Also, your calculation of EL is wrong too with regards to Myron. The CR system is set up for 4 PCs, not six. So you are right, six players would have an easier time of it. I suggest you read page 48 of the DMG under the heading Challenge Ratings and Encounter Levels.
I am not trying to be a jerk, but I see your posts and kind of totally negative statements but you do not offer valid solutions. Do not mind that you poke holes in the material (I plan on having my say here really soon), but you need to bring tape (i.e. give back valid fixes to the problems you see).
Please do not take offence to this, I am just trying to make sure that the feedback athas.org gets is something that will help the project.
Sarcastic eh. Am I wrong though? Anyone else here actually playetested high level/epic level campaigns? Game mechanics is one thing I'm good at. Its a trend I've noticed alt in Athas.org material with monsters being quite weak for their CR. From the look of it peopel have converted them over straight from 2nd ed but without accounting for the changes to the rules. AC -10in the old edition is only AC 30 or so in 3.5.
True. ACs and CRs could do with a makeover. Someone started on that process I believe. As for finishing it, do we have a volunteer in you, Zardnar?
that right there makes it 2 standard + 1 quickened/swift/immediate (swift and immediate take up the same slot, by the way). throw in a maximise + empower (that would be from metamagic rods, by the way) on the time stop for 5 + 1d4+1/2 rounds of apparent time, and you could quite possibly wind up with 21 spells in a single unbroken chain, and that assumes you don't use anything like contingency, move-actions spells/effects, and so forth.
but really, he's hardly even doing anything that horribly broken... take a look at the charop boards sometime if you want to see what kind of horrifying nova action a high level spellcaster can pull off. there are some scary things out there... and most of them can be destroyed by a well-optimised full spellcaster in 1 turn or less.
well, first off kalthandrix, there are many ways to gain the ability of a choker to take 2 standard actions per turn... the simplest being shapechange, iirc.
I never said that it could not happen, though I see that you did not even address what I pointed out about the types of spells one could cast in a situation like the one stated above. Unfortunatly, without information from the PC, this is an exercise in pointless "what if's".
that right there makes it 2 standard + 1 quickened/swift/immediate (swift and immediate take up the same slot, by the way).
No, they are different. A swift action may only be taken on your turn while and immediate action can take place even while it is anothers turn - see page 137 in the Complete Adventurer ;)
throw in a maximise + empower (that would be from metamagic rods, by the way) on the time stop for 5 + 1d4+1/2 rounds of apparent time, and you could quite possibly wind up with 21 spells in a single unbroken chain,...
Activating two rods at one time - sure, with something like a modified Duel Wand Wielder or something...except for the fact that the metamagic rods spicifically state that a caster can only use one such item on any given spell in a round (page 236 in the DMG). Therefore your statement is invalidated. Sure, there is a way someone could use something like a Sudden Empower
feat or something else, but again we do not have the details, so this again trails off into the Lands of What If?
The point I was making with my statement to Zardnaar was not to bash him in anyway, and if you would like to continue talking about quickened spells and the deadly chain of spell blasts a mage can unleash, I would love to - on another thread; though I fear I may have already started to derail this one (my bad). The point to the comment was to show Z that how he was making his comments and feedback was actually not helpful in this case. I respect his opinion and agree that some things should be addressed in the LoA, but it really sounded more like him complaining than offering pointed and corrective feedback to the team at athas.org.
Many of the epic spells have been left off the "Epic Spells by Spellcraft DC" table. These include deadrise turning, seeking sandstorm, epic simulcrum, spellbook tattoo, the entire shadow transformation spell line, and wall of ash.
The descriptions for the epic spells seeking sandstorm and spellbook tattoo are out of alphabetical order.
I cannot describe how awesome it is to finally have the full writeup for the metamorphosis seed. I do, however, notice one inconsistency. In the seed description, it is stated that changing type to anything besides dragon is +25 DC. However, the writeup for preserver metamorphosis I indicates that changing type to aberration is +30 DC, and the writeup for shadow transformation I indicates that changing type to outsider is +40 DC.
No, they are different. A swift action may only be taken on your turn while and immediate action can take place even while it is anothers turn - see page 137 in the Complete Adventurer
He didn't say they were the same thing, he said they took the same slot. IE, you can't cast a quickened spell if you've already cast an immediate spell. Barring the tomfoolery above, of course.
Secondly i miss info on epic ideas for Athas, info on some ( not too much) orgs. etc that can be of use in an epic Dark Sun plot arc.
The artifact section is great but i wondre if it might be a bit too big?
As i said all over it is a great product but i guess that i would like it to be a bit BIGGER :D It falls short in my opinion in that it is too focused on advanced beings and as i said seems to leave out other classes that just as well deserves Epic consideration.
On another note i wanna say that to this day i have seen few products as good as Athasian Emporium :D Way to go!!!!
Well hope this was a bit rewarding and once again keep up the good work and all thanks to you for doing it!!!
For the record, I want to let the community know that I had ideas for other epic PrC's, but they were not developed out of time constraints. And those were solely mine, not athas.org's. These other ideas were bantered about, but (truth be told, at least for me) Advanced Beings seem to be what people salivate for, so why not start there.
Oh, and at the other discussion, AB's have psionics too, so never forget you can simply use temporal acceleration while time stopped to increase the possible number of actions. Of course, the process works in reverse too.
He didn't say they were the same thing, he said they took the same slot. IE, you can't cast a quickened spell if you've already cast an immediate spell. Barring the tomfoolery above, of course.
Well my bad, I thought that was what he was saying - i just read it wrong is all. I did not think that with my comment on them (immediate spells) that I was implying that they could both be cast - I was just ignoring the use of immediate action casting spells because in this case they were no better than swift action ones. If I was unclear, sorry.
Oh, and at the other discussion, AB's have psionics too, so never forget you can simply use temporal acceleration while time stopped to increase the possible number of actions. Of course, the process works in reverse too.
True, but that does not change the fact that while the caster is within the effects of time stop, the other people/creatures "outside" the spell cannot be harmed or targeted by spells and/or psionics (I threw that last part on because it makes sence).
Back to the subject though, I was wondering why it seems that the dragon and avangion seek to get down graded with each revision. Personally, I really liked the first version with the Duplex ability, and even the All Out Attack was okay and kept up with what I thought a Dragon should be able to do. I am not sure that I am on board with the removing those abilities and basically replacing it with Quicken Spell (or Multispell if Quicken has already been selected - and why would it not at this point?). I honestly feel as though the dragon has become dragon-lite in the face of so many changes.
Personally I think there should be a way to keep some of the old abilities and mix with the new ones.
More later
On another note i wanna say that to this day i have seen few products as good as Athasian Emporium :D Way to go!!!!
Well hope this was a bit rewarding and once again keep up the good work and all thanks to you for doing it!!!
[Thread highjack alert] Thanks galsau for the good words. Please if you have any playtest results or comments about the AE, just write them in the AE thread or send them to the athas.org templarate [End thread highjack alert :P ]
Ah yes, and welcome back Kal!
Cast a timestop and you can basically cast non instantaneous duration spells. Timestop resolves and all your spells you cast during timestop resolve as well. However you can cast another timestop while timestopped. 1st one resolves cast whatever combination of spells you want and make the last spell cast another timestop.
Essentially you can chain multiple timestopsspells togather. Great spell for a sorcerer. UNLESS THEY"VE ERRATED IT I'm sure this still works.
True. ACs and CRs could do with a makeover. Someone started on that process I believe. As for finishing it, do we have a volunteer in you, Zardnar?
I don't mind helping but its very difficult to judge right. Some groups may easily defeat an epic beastie while others will get wiped out.
I don't mind helping but its very difficult to judge right. Some groups may easily defeat an epic beastie while others will get wiped out.
The biggest factor in whether or not the group will get wiped is the DM. Which books do they allow, what is acceptable, how much treasure do they hand out, those sorts of things.
Athas.org has to stick to OGC, which means that our stuff doesn't get all the bells and whistles of, say, the Complete series. Not only that, but we can't really repeat those things either. So... maybe it is the case that our CR numbers are off for a party that uses Reserve Feats and the Tomb of Battle and the Complete series, as WotC seems to always power creep. No complaining, really, and I as a DM allow those books. I just keep them in mind and upwardly adjust the things I send my PCs against.
And ultimately, it is easier to beef up an underpowered monster than to scale down an overpowered one.
PC's can gain/lose gear very easily. but again, PC's tend to travel in groups, many foes travel alone. even when a pc is playing 1 on 1 with the dm there tends to be npc backup. but like i said, after looking through other products, the cr is in the same ranges of other big bad mofo's. except maybe the deadlands bosses, who are incredibly powerful.;)
also never forget that the DM can always modify anything they like. from giving or taking away abilities to changing battle tactics.
a cr 9 creature with a successful suprise attack and deadly poison could kill an epic pc. just like a swarm of cr4 insects with psionic abilities could.
i find it kinda silly that PC's can get to level 30 or higher on athas. i guess the SK's and others are dead. otherwise they would put aside their differances to wipe out this new threat.
Dregoth is CR49 but hes damn near a god in DA3.;)
Rarer are creatures with a notoriously low CR for their power- mostly creature with spellcaster levels higher than their challenge rating.
Have a look through the Epic Level Handbook and tell me how many critters have an AC of 19. and are CR 25+. I'm guessing around none but could be wrong as I don't have it on me ATM.
When I DM I often bump up CR or lower them. By the rules a level 20 commoner/warrior are both CR19. In reality the warrior is about CR 10-14 and the commoner is CR7ish. As a rule of thumb I usally guesstimate.
A creature should have a AC of around 14+1 for each challenge rating it has if its a beatstick type role (at least AC 35 at 20), Spell /Power resistence (if it has it) of 11-12+CR. Its not a concrete system but most MM creatures are usually very close to this or if they are particuly strong in 1 area often lack somewhere else.
Rule of thumb and guesstimates are great.
sound like all your encounters are melee.
Depends on the PCs. Once I ended up with an all archer party with 1 Dwarven defender in it. Even Clerics can make good archers.
Elemental Lords:
Elemental Bonding is kind strange and combersom, and here is why. At fifth level, they gain the half-elemental template, right. But there is no 80%-elemental template and they are far more elemental at this point. Also – while there are some social skill modifiers that progress with the level in the class, the elemental damage done with the elemental touch attack does not change. So it does the same damage at 9th level and 90% elemental as it did when they were 1st level and only 10% elemental.
My suggestions to fix this part would be to keep with the 2e version of forcing the elemental lord to change into their elemental type for X hours per day (level depending), and during that time they have all the abilities of said elemental. While not shifted, they would gain the half-elemental template at 5th level with the abilities always on call. As for the elemental touch ability, make this progressive; d4 at 1st, d6 at 3rd, d8 at 6th with minor other effect like a second save to avoid something catching fire, being chilled to the bone and getting a -10 to speed – something like that. No need for anything higher then that because at 10th level they will be full elemental.
Another thing I think is strange about the elemental bonding is that it says that the EL can wear a disguise and clothes to hide his transformation. Now that seems a bit silly if one things of a 9th level EL of Fire – with 90% of his body in flames. I think that the whole “elemental coverage %” should be done away with and replace with gradual changes at first – like skin taking on a different texture or eyes that seem to glow in the dark – during the lower levels to more obvious changes later while not in the forced period of transformation.
In a related ability, I have a few comments on the Elemental Apotheosis ability as well. The 10th level ability changes you into a full elemental - that is a medium elemental (for most PCs)? There is not a single size increase in this progression, which seems strange, because the abilities of a medium elemental (or a small if your PC is a halfling) would be a joke at Epic levels. There should be at least one size increase, two tops IMO.
Now, that is not to say that the size increase needs to always be in effect. If you go with the forced transformation, the size increase would take place then as earth shot from the ground to seemingly bury the cleric, or a cloud of silt descends in a vortex to engulf him. When in their alternate form, the cleric should be larger, more physical - more "elemental" if you will. Say that you only give a size increase at 6th level, well I think that would be perfect, because Epic PrCs can advance as far as one wants, so having the ELs size go up every six levels would be awesome.
Another suggestion would be to allow the EL to have an “alternate form” ability that is like what I have suggested above (forced transformation for a period each day) up until 10th level, then grant the EL the ability to diminish their form for a short period after 10th level – but it would require some kind of Concentration check to maintain for any length of time. This would be to allow the EL to dungeon crawl with his buddies. I think that the concentration check would be the way to go – something similar to the spellfire concentration check needed when holding more charges then normal. This also then opens the door to a chain of feats that allow them to manipulate their transformation - like one that is a swift change so they could either become an elemental faster or chane to their "humaniod" form faster at higher levels (though this feat should be kind of loosly worded so it can do both and therefore keep it's viability at higher levels).
Psionic Enchantments: For the most part I really like the new ones mixed with the ones that have carried between the other ABs – though the new ones have a decided lack of “psionic” to them and more “divine” – as in neither Elemental Hollowing or Gift of the Element has any psionic flavor. Now one could see that maybe Gift does, but there should be a mention in the text how the connection to transfer this turning ability is due to a latent psionic connection between those involved.
I think I would like to see something along the lines of granting the ELs the ability to have their psionic or clerical effects that correspond to their elemental type be automatically augmented somehow – like heightened, empowered, or maximized somehow. I do not know if that would fall under Psionic Enchantments or not, but the thought came to me now and I thought it worth sharing.
Now, on to the three items that I have the biggest problems with.
Hit Dice: OMG! An elemental with only d6 HD? If you are going to give the elemental type to a creature, the material clearly shows us that they should have elemental HD of d8 – as per the SRD “Elemental Type: An elemental is a being composed of one of the four classical elements: air, earth, fire, or water. Features: An elemental has the following features: d8-sided Hit Dice.” I see no reason to make this AB class the exception if the characters type will be changed to elemental.
Elemental Aura: This ability is rather flawed IMO for several reasons. I can see why a Fire Lord or and Rain Lord would have some type of aura, but why Earth or Water? Add to this that some of the auras are harmful to the allies of the AB (see fire and silt) and this ability could actually be seen as a penalty to those ABs. And why does fire harm people (which is heat) when the magma ability acts as Empower Spell for spells with the fire descriptor? Magma gives off just as much heat as fire.
I think the elemental aura ability should be dropped completely. Instead, you could replace it with my suggestion above of having spells, psioncis, and abilities with the same energy descriptors be auto-heightened, empowered, widened, ect… Give different once to different elemental types, but be consistent between energy types and let them gain several of them – say at every 3 or 4 levels they can choose another.
Elemental Attack: This is another power that needs a complete overhaul IMO. Right now it looks like some were ripped off of the drakes with a little tweaking, which is a shame, because we all know that those beasts need to be reworked as well - something Nytcrawlr stated when he was bast of the Templars IIRC. The ability to gate material was an awesome 2e ability that has never ported over too well to 3.5 – though many complain that it was broken – I still loved it though and it is here, in the Epic material, that we have a chance to make it the ability that it should have been.
Right now, all of the gating of elements looks like they can be used for nothing more then a bludgeon to deal damage – such as the earth and water – at least as far as the write ups of the ability is written. The powers name should be changed to “Gate Element” or something, and then each element should be examined for several different effects aside from just dealing damage. For example, it should be stated in the earth ability that the element can be molded and shaped as per the wall of stone spell, with greater degrees of skill if the EL had ranks in Knowledge (engineering) and/or Craft (sculpting or masonry). Now there are some such as fire that this would be difficult, but even fire could be referenced as to be able to be shaped and mimic the wall of fire effect instead of just being a flash of all-consuming flame that is here and then gone.
I have ideas for each elemental gate type, and would be willing to discuss them if there is interest, but for now I will leave off and do some work (because that is where I am :D )
There will be more on each of the other ABs and the other material soon.
Thanks Kal. Keep those ideas comming. And please give more ideas for the Gating powers, more ideas mean better ideas (though, if they all suck, who knows...:P)
Jack
I see a feat for wild shaping into a "Spirit of the Land" but no reference on where to find the stats for same (which are not in this book or Terrors of Athas so far as I could find).
Jack
AFAIK it's not decided yet what they are.
AFAIK it's not decided yet what they are.
There are stats for Spirits of the Land in Faces of the Forgotten North
.There are stats for Spirits of the Land in Faces of the Forgotten North
...specifically mentionned as being unique
...specifically mentionned as being unique
The Spirits of the Trembling Plains are unique. But the sample Spirit of the Land given before those is easily used as an example upon which to base your own. The Spirits of the Trembling Plains also give good examples of powers that other spirits could have. I'd certainly be happy using these in-game.
I do think that Jackmojo has a point though. There should probably be stats for more generic SotLs in Legends of Athas, or at least a reference to FFN for those who are happy to mod their own.
There should probably be stats for more generic SotLs in Legends of Athas, or at least a reference to FFN for those who are happy to mod their own.
Still waiting for them, Kam. :P
Still waiting for them, Kam. :P
Er, what?
Er, what?
Could he have forgotten? Could he?!
:P
Could he have forgotten? Could he?!
:P
What the hell are you talking about?
Er, what?
IIRC, a certain Englishman said to me that he would make the generic version of the SotL some months ago...
IIRC, a certain Englishman said to me that he would make the generic version of the SotL some months ago...
Yeah, and a certain Brazilian said that he would get back to me first with clarification on a number of questions I had in that regard (not least the resolution of certain internal athas.org disputes about the nature of an unmanifested SotL...)
So, you know... don't hold your breath...
:P
Check your email, smartass :P
Check your head, monkeyboy :D None of that addresses the questions I had. Anyway, bygones, as they say...
Hahaha - Kam called you monkey boy!
*slaps Kal with small rubber erdlu and runs away giggling*
:P
*slaps Kal with small rubber erdlu and runs away giggling like a little girl*
:P
That is what it should have said, Kam :P
That is what it should have said, Kam :P
Kal should be giving us more feedback, not pushing of others to fight. (stop slacking... minion...)
That is what it should have said, Kam :P
You're just jealous because lycra and fishnets don't look as good on you.
:D
You're just jealous because lycra and fishnets don't look as good on you.
:D
Not jealous - glad :D
Kal should be giving us more feedback, not pushing of others to fight. (stop slacking... minion...)
There is a reason for the lack of additional feedback - which brun01 is aware of (because it is his fault) - I have like three pages of more comments already written up, but...we will just say that monkey-boy has several more things to answer for!
Basically, I don't like that the DS1/2 SotLs were basically thinly painted elementals. Instead, I considered what it might be like to acutally build up spirits of the land as a reflection of the land. So, take the most boring, featureless stretch of land, relatively uninhabited. That's your baseline SotL. Plain, vanilla, not-too bright ...
For stretches of land with more distinctive features, start adding traits. Oasis teeming with life? Some water and tree releated features. Deep rocky ravine, with heavy wind and occasional flash flooding? Stronger, tougher, powerful wind based abilities ...
Anything that is a sustained presence in the area is a part of the land that is the spirit. A farming village that's existed for a generation is a part of the land, and it's spirit will take on traits drawn from that. I figure the more intelligent life, the more intelligent the spirit will be. Some of the spirits in the barren wastelands would be barely more than sentient, more animal like. While the spirit of Urik is absolute genious.
The fatal flaw of all this, of course, is that it becomes a royal pain in the arse to build a playable SotL. Worse than dragons, even.
A farming village that's existed for a generation is a part of the land, and it's spirit will take on traits drawn from that.
I would think that it would take a longer time before the SotL would be affected by settlers. Something more like 100 years or more.
Perhaps something like:
Can be applied to any dragon, elemental, monstrous humanoid, magical beast,
humanoid, plant, vermin.
Type changes to elemental (or fey, not sure which is more appropriate).
Special Attacks
A Spirit of the land retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains the following special attacks:
(Some druidy/cleric SLAs)
Gains energy resistance blah (giving choice of energy resistances so can be chosen based on terrain affiliation)
Etherealness at will
Special Qualities
A Spirit of the Land retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following.
* Darkvision out to 120 feet.
* Damage reduction 10/magic.
* Spell resistance equal to the creature’s HD + 10.
If the base creature already has one or more of these special qualities, use the better value.
Same as the base creature, but Intelligence is at least 3.
Alignment
Always neutral (any).
Just a quick sketch obviously, but this can allow a DM to customize it for the terrain easily.
Jack
What is suggested by Flip is to make all SotLs unique, but determine the nature and number of their abilities by following simple guidelines related to their environment.
Jackmato's proposal wouldn't work, as SotL are not bulettes, or giants, or lizards. They're their own shape, their own creature.
What is suggested by Flip is to make all SotLs unique, but determine the nature and number of their abilities by following simple guidelines related to their environment.
Fair enough, I think I explained it badly.
The idea behind using a template was that you could apply the template to an appropraite creature for the environs, say a dunewinder in the desert, to have a Shai-Hulud like Spirit of the Land, or a Dire Bear for a mountain sprit or what have you, using a template is a good way to allow customization without needing new rules.
Jack
Fair enough, I think I explained it badly.
The idea behind using a template was that you could apply the template to an appropraite creature for the environs, say a dunewinder in the desert, to have a Shai-Hulud like Spirit of the Land, or a Dire Bear for a mountain sprit or what have you, using a template is a good way to allow customization without needing new rules.
Jack
in otherwords giving it the form and maybe some special abilities, attack styles as the template, but in the end it is still just a SotL manifesting in a differant form. sounds good.
Would a druid only be able to wildshape into *his* spirit of the land, or of any land he travels through? If so should this ability even work in completely desolate places like the Deadlands?
Can a druid with the Wildshape: Drake feat shift into True / Pure drake, or are they limited to the standard types in Terrors of Athas?
in otherwords giving it the form and maybe some special abilities, attack styles as the template, but in the end it is still just a SotL manifesting in a differant form. sounds good.
Yeah that was my thinking.
So the druid feat could allow the druid to apply that template to critters he can wildshape into or somesuch.
Jack
I think it is great that someone has translated them into game terms. Back when I was reading the novels for my Foods of Athas post, I also made a list of the spell descriptions from the novels in the hopes of one day doing something similar but never did.
I guess I can post the list in case it is useful for anyone else, seeking to convert more of the spells. I'll put it in another thread.
Then it is on to reading Legends. It may be a while before I can start posting feedback on it, because of the way Legends is organized. For the others, I could start posting comments while still reading the rest of it, but since much of Legends interacts and references each other - the prestige classes, feats, and spells, there is much more I want to get through before posting any comments. So it should be a little slow, at least until I get past chapter 4.
I think it is great that someone has translated them into game terms. Back when I was reading the novels for my Foods of Athas post, I also made a list of the spell descriptions from the novels in the hopes of one day doing something similar but never did.
I guess I can post the list in case it is useful for anyone else, seeking to convert more of the spells. I'll put it in another thread.
There's no clear place to put such a conversion, but if there were I'd love to convert the spell used against Dhojakt in the PP, the one that stretches the staircase he's walking on into a seeming infinity.
There will be a lot of spells and power conversions on r7. A LOT.
Is that above and beyond what is found in the two spells and powers documents penned by you and Fabricio, and availlable on the official site?
Wizards and warlocs will work differently in 4E, there will be less "spells" and spells will be less important to such a character's ability to be useful while adventuring/fighting....but we could convert for 4E some of the spells Band2 compiled in his list, at least those spells that are desirable and not redundant or variations of existing 4E spells.
There's probably material for 5 or more workable, cool spells in there.
Is that above and beyond what is found in the two spells and powers documents penned by you and Fabricio, and availlable on the official site?
Is this something available to everyone or just you templars?
I do not remember it and was trying to find it on the new site but did not see it.
Augment Summoning feat requires spell focus conjuration to take it. The Pyreen has more hit points than its maximum +con bonus allows.
Also with the way it is written a Pyreen taking levels in ny other class gets to advance its Psionics and Druidic spellcasting. If it took 4 levels of fighter it gets the fighters abilities+ 4 more levels of psionics and magic. Not sure if that was deliberate but its very powerful and seems a bit odd.
There's no clear place to put such a conversion, but if there were I'd love to convert the spell used against Dhojakt in the PP, the one that stretches the staircase he's walking on into a seeming infinity.
Illusionary Terrain.
Nice writeup on the Pyreen but a couple of small things.
Augment Summoning feat requires spell focus conjuration to take it. The Pyreen has more hit points than its maximum +con bonus allows.
Also with the way it is written a Pyreen taking levels in ny other class gets to advance its Psionics and Druidic spellcasting. If it took 4 levels of fighter it gets the fighters abilities+ 4 more levels of psionics and magic. Not sure if that was deliberate but its very powerful and seems a bit odd.
It was deliberate, because we wanted them to be powerful druids and spellcasters. and they get more casting, but not the other abilities.
It was deliberate, because we wanted them to be powerful druids and spellcasters. and they get more casting, but not the other abilities.
They're already level 16/16 manifesters/spellcasters. Thats a very powerful ability and theres virtually no point for a Pyreen to take levels of Druid or Spions or the Psionic Theurge class. A Pyreen with fighter levels is almost a gestalt Fighter/Psion/Druid. I kinda like it but its very unbalenced as written.
Personally, I am curious about feedback from game use, rather than theoretical feedback.
And... (this is just me, not athas.org) I wrote the Pyreen rules, and I know that my tendancy is to make things more on par with what I find in my games that I DM, which includes the Complete Splat books and other non core items, which ends up making things a little more powerful than what athas.org does as standard.
That said, bruno tends to pull me back in when he needs to.
which is why playtested feedback is very important. If it turns out that it needs to be every 2 or 3 or 4 levels outside of advancing HD as a Pyreen, then we can change it.
Personally, I am curious about feedback from game use, rather than theoretical feedback.
And... (this is just me, not athas.org) I wrote the Pyreen rules, and I know that my tendancy is to make things more on par with what I find in my games that I DM, which includes the Complete Splat books and other non core items, which ends up making things a little more powerful than what athas.org does as standard.
That said, bruno tends to pull me back in when he needs to.
Yeah we use the complete series and various other books.Power wise its probably fine as a Pyreen with 10 fighter levels is a CR 28 critter with level 26 druid spells and psionics. Powerful but not that much more broken than any CR 28 spellcaster/manifester. On 2nd thoughts I'm a DM and I could abuse the hell out of this.
Its just doens't seem to fit in 3.5 however as mechanically it seems a 2nd ed hold over. Its hard to give playtested feedback as I suspect I'm one of the few who has DMed epic level games and my PCs are only level 11 ATM in a non DS game. Most (all that I know of) other spellcasting monsters don't get spellcaster/psionic progression if you advance the hit dice unless they take the right classes.
A normal Pyreen that doesn't get free advancement for example is still quite powerful if it took Psion/Druid levels and if it takes Fighter levels for example they would be treated as non associated classes and would only advance its CR by 1 for every 2 levels. Under these rules a Pyreen level 16 fighter would be CR26 under your rules it would be CR 34 and be a level 32 spellcaster/manifester.
Just an observation. Its really getting up there in power level. Its a very good conversion though and it loooks like Athas.org is getting better at assigning CRs and ACs when converting 2nd ed material- one of the better beasties in the book design wise and its CR is about right as well. How come it has 200 hp though?
The hitpoints were from a preivous (more powerful) version of the rules that added their Cha modifer to their hit points. Plus I think I had used something other than Fey hit dice as well. An editing mistake. They happen.
Do you think you could make Pyreen have maximum hp bump the con up a bit and give them improved toughness 2-3 times as bonus feats since we seem to have a similar opinion on them needing around 200 hp give or take.
But, I understand your concerns. That is why I wanted them to be more powerful. I think max hitpoints might be the way to go. and maybe adding their Cha mod to Hitpoints would help too.
And (just for fun) they are truly Rhulisti, which means that you could give one the Nature Master PrC and some really cool life shaped items and grafts.
The way they are written, they are intended to be not only powerful (which is easy) but versitile and unique. The final release will have more than one Pyreen, and they will all be different to show that variety.
Well... the Con isn't really a problem. Each Pyreen is an individual. Plus... You easily have options open to them based on their Wildshape ability. And... they can take the form of ANY of the Rebirth races (which includes Giants, Orcs, Trolls and Wemics) so they are able to be fierce, even if they aren't becoming a dire tiger or something. Pyreen can be just as nasty as any other Druid.
But, I understand your concerns. That is why I wanted them to be more powerful. I think max hitpoints might be the way to go. and maybe adding their Cha mod to Hitpoints would help too.
And (just for fun) they are truly Rhulisti, which means that you could give one the Nature Master PrC and some really cool life shaped items and grafts.
The way they are written, they are intended to be not only powerful (which is easy) but versitile and unique. The final release will have more than one Pyreen, and they will all be different to show that variety.
My Pyreen had the charisma to hit points as well but it isn't worded very well. I don't think they would have life shaping but I suppose they could utilise any items they found better than a normal race.
In DS there is the dark spider and high drik.
In FR there are some critters from ancient Anauroch, for example.
LoA's pyreen is not the only D&D, yet alone DS, creature to automatically gain class levels as it gains HD.
In DS there is the dark spider and high drik.
In FR there are some critters from ancient Anauroch, for example.
Lost empires of Faerun has Phaerimm and they have an age table like Dragons. The Pyreen in LoA get dual progression regardless of what class they take. Remember you guys didn't want to do a dual progression PrC for Dragons/Avangions because you thought it was to powerful? This is a 3 class gestalt character if you take any other class apart form psion/druid. Bit different form progressing spellcasting via extra hit dice.
I don't see the real problem you have with this, Zardnaar. Because, to me, it looks like this is bugging you on some other level that what is proper, rulewise. Level adjustments are there for a reason.
Fearing these guys can become 20 level fighters or rangers in addition to what they can naturally do? Pyreen, like all other powerful races, have a level adjustment, and theirs is a wooping +16. I think it says it all.
I don't see the real problem you have with this, Zardnaar. Because, to me, it looks like this is bugging you on some other level that what is proper, rulewise. Level adjustments are there for a reason.
Its not the level adjustment I'm concerned about nor do I care if about it. Its the advanced Pyreen in the hands of the DM that could be a problem. Why would a Pyreen NPC have levels in Psionist or Druid if it could take levels in any other class and progress in both spellcasting and psionics.
I don't really care to be honest but advanced Pyreen with class levels will be very out of whack balence wise.
And (just for fun) they are truly Rhulisti, which means that you could give one the Nature Master PrC and some really cool life shaped items and grafts.
Not too thrilled with this one, as it doesn't mesh with Rajaat. Rajaat is a Pyreen -- a revolting, twisted, deformed Pyreen. One who hated himself, how he looked, and how he was so deformed. He extended that hate to what he saw was the cause of it -- the Rebirth, and thus, to all of the races of the Rebirth. This would, to me, imply Pyreen are from the Rebirth, and not Rhulisti. Rajaat went searching for Rhulisti lifeshaping to try and figure out it, and instead ended up making Arcane Magic... the interpretation of events that I got from it was the Arcane Magic was actually something he accidentally discovered i the process of trying (and failing) to figure out lifeshaping.
Not too thrilled with this one, as it doesn't mesh with Rajaat. Rajaat is a Pyreen -- a revolting, twisted, deformed Pyreen. One who hated himself, how he looked, and how he was so deformed. He extended that hate to what he saw was the cause of it -- the Rebirth, and thus, to all of the races of the Rebirth. This would, to me, imply Pyreen are from the Rebirth, and not Rhulisti. Rajaat went searching for Rhulisti lifeshaping to try and figure out it, and instead ended up making Arcane Magic... the interpretation of events that I got from it was the Arcane Magic was actually something he accidentally discovered i the process of trying (and failing) to figure out lifeshaping.
There is nothing saying that something went wrong with Rajaat's "rebirth" into a Pyreen and his mind wasn't destroyed in the process and he was tring to recreate the knowledge he lost that he had as a Rhulisti. But he could not regain the knowledge of lifeshaping but found arcane magic instead.
Or Rajaat could have been born to Pyreen parents after the Rebirth took place. :P
Not too thrilled with this one, as it doesn't mesh with Rajaat. Rajaat is a Pyreen -- a revolting, twisted, deformed Pyreen. One who hated himself, how he looked, and how he was so deformed. He extended that hate to what he saw was the cause of it -- the Rebirth, and thus, to all of the races of the Rebirth. This would, to me, imply Pyreen are from the Rebirth, and not Rhulisti. Rajaat went searching for Rhulisti lifeshaping to try and figure out it, and instead ended up making Arcane Magic... the interpretation of events that I got from it was the Arcane Magic was actually something he accidentally discovered i the process of trying (and failing) to figure out lifeshaping.
Let me clarify. they have the Rhulisti subtype, which means a few things. First, it means that grafts work for them 100% of the time, unlike others. Second, it means that, given how they came about, it is possible for them to research and access knowledge of the past and become Nature Masters (the PrC). There are Pyreen that visit Themasku (or however it is spelled) and there may be more in other areas that have chosen to retain this knoweldge and pass it on.
While it isn't likely that a Pyreen would take this route, it doesn't mean that they necessarily would not be able too.
And, I think Rajaat was trying to find a way to reverse the Rebirth and this lead to the discovery of magic. Also, while he may have been born to Pyreen parents, he certainly isn't a "normal" pyreen, so I am not sure we have to worry about that.
If one got bored and decided to stat out Rajaat would it be resonable to replace his racial druid levels with Wizard levels?
This question reminded a Knights of the Diner Table strip when they buy a Hackmaster book witch had stats for god.
This question reminded a Knights of the Diner Table strip when they buy a Hackmaster book witch had stats for god.
3rd ed does have deities and demigods. Might stat out Rajaat if I get bored one day:D
Before I start posting my comments on Legends I think I need to explain a couple of things, so that you understand where I am coming from on some of these comments.
The first is that I have never run an epic level game. So I have never read the epic level rules before. Before reading Legends I downloaded the SRD and read the epic rules. But that is the limit of my epic rules knowledge, so if any of my questions are off base you know why.
Second, I have a confession to make. I hate Prestige Classes. It is not that I do not like the concept of prestige classes, it is just that only a small number of them I do like. Most I find extraneous, incoherent, or just plain rules breaking. I think it was a good idea that wizards took too far by wanting to use it too much, and giving everything a prestige class. So that being said, I am predisposed to hate most new prestige classes.
However, I think advanced beings such as dragons are a perfect fit for prestige classes. But that does not mean I like all of those in Legends.
Ok now that I got the rant and confessions out of the way on to some comments.
Page 6
Gladiator
Is the bonus feat, a bonus fighter feat or any feat?
Epic Templar
The quoter is from Digit? Where is Digit?
“Growing under the shadow of their sorcerer-king, those who develop such amount of power are executed without second thought.”
This first sentence of the first paragraph is not well written and needs some work. I am not sure what it is trying to imply.
Page 7
I do not understand the blue shading rules. Maybe take a look at some of the items in blue on this page. And for that matter throughout the document.
Epic Templar Knight
Table 1-7
Levels 15 and 20 both have Smite 4/ day. At level 20 it should be Smite 5/ day, no?
This question reminded a Knights of the Diner Table strip when they buy a Hackmaster book witch had stats for god.
Sword & Sorcery (Scarred Lands) have stated out Lucifer. I'm not kidding.
Athasian Dragon - This is a good prestige class.
I would have preferred the requirement to be 7th level psionics instead of 6th level but I understand the decision.
The increase in manifester levels every 4 levels seems too rare? Should they increase more often every 2-3 levels?
Arcane spellcasting levels – The dragon gains new spells per day every other level. But at some point this becomes a useless ability. For epic arcane spellcasters after 20th level they no longer gain any spells per day, right? So assuming a defiler becomes a dragon when he is at 17th level defiler, by the time he gains 6th level in the dragon PrC he is maxed out in number of spells per day. The bonus at 8 and 10 levels do nothing to increase the number of spells per day, according to the epic rules. Could this be a case to bend this epic rule and give dragons (same for avangions) more spells per day at 8 and 10 level? As an incentive to become a dragon instead of remaining a wizard?
This problem effects all of these prestige classes as some point.
I do not like the “Path of least resistance” power. Why award redundancy? This only works for someone who wastes power known slots on spells they already know. I suppose it makes some sense, in that someone who has learned both may gain some specialitiy with it.
Arcane Augmentation
Do you give up a spell to gain power points or only the chance to augment a power by so many more points?
Boo for the Dragon Metamorphosis ability and same for avangion
The original spells for the metamorphosis process (in 2nd edition) described the spells as extremely rare and difficult to learn. This bonus seems to make it too easy to develop the spells.
Page 10
Shouldn’t hit dice be higher than 6 for a dragon? We are talking about very aggressive powerful creatures. In Dragon Kings a strange varying format was used were the dragon gained different hp per level, but the lowest was 2d4. What about 8 HD or even a 10?
12
NPC Reactions
"Their templars and agents are usually friendly towards them..."
Why are templars and agents friendly towards dragons? And what are agents?
The example, Terras, is not a current known dragon? Like one of the sorcerer-kings or Falcunn?
Page 9
Athasian Dragon - This is a good prestige class.
I would have preferred the requirement to be 7th level psionics instead of 6th level but I understand the decision.
The increase in manifester levels every 4 levels seems too rare? Should they increase more often every 2-3 levels?
Arcane spellcasting levels – The dragon gains new spells per day every other level. But at some point this becomes a useless ability. For epic arcane spellcasters after 20th level they no longer gain any spells per day, right? So assuming a defiler becomes a dragon when he is at 17th level defiler, by the time he gains 6th level in the dragon PrC he is maxed out in number of spells per day. The bonus at 8 and 10 levels do nothing to increase the number of spells per day, according to the epic rules. Could this be a case to bend this epic rule and give dragons (same for avangions) more spells per day at 8 and 10 level? As an incentive to become a dragon instead of remaining a wizard?
This problem effects all of these prestige classes as some point.
I do not like the “Path of least resistance” power. Why award redundancy? This only works for someone who wastes power known slots on spells they already know. I suppose it makes some sense, in that someone who has learned both may gain some specialitiy with it.
Arcane Augmentation
Do you give up a spell to gain power points or only the chance to augment a power by so many more points?
Boo for the Dragon Metamorphosis ability and same for avangion
The original spells for the metamorphosis process (in 2nd edition) described the spells as extremely rare and difficult to learn. This bonus seems to make it too easy to develop the spells.
Page 10
Shouldn’t hit dice be higher than 6 for a dragon? We are talking about very aggressive powerful creatures. In Dragon Kings a strange varying format was used were the dragon gained different hp per level, but the lowest was 2d4. What about 8 HD or even a 10?
12
NPC Reactions
"Their templars and agents are usually friendly towards them..."
Why are templars and agents friendly towards dragons? And what are agents?
The example, Terras, is not a current known dragon? Like one of the sorcerer-kings or Falcunn?
Even in Dragon Kings you only got 30d4 HD in total (or 20d610d4 as Psion dual class). NPC Dragons had 60 IIRC.
Hell you could do a d12 HD class and add full dual progressionin psionics/magic and it wouldn't be broken. Well no more broken than any other epic spellcaster.
From a min/max point of view the Avangion and Dragon PrCs are a waste of time. Stay a single classed Psion or Wizard from a power point of view.
Avangion magic
Can others use you to power their spells. For instance a group travels to the Deadlands, and includes a avangion and other preservers. Can the other preservers use the avangion to power their spells? What if the avangion is over a certain level? Remember Arcane Shadows when the defiler wanted to use "someone" as a source of power?
Metapotency
I assume this does not interact with metamixture.
Psionic enchantments are cool and it would be great if there were more of them so they gained one every level.
Page 15
Advancement
Oronis gave the spell to Korgunard??
Resources
What about mentioning defilers who want to use you as a source of power?
There are lots of comments that seem to indicate the VA knows how to make avangions, but there is only one instance of this, and another Raam where they have studied for years but have not figured it out.
Knowledge
20 seems too low to know what an avangion is.
30 seems too low to know that there are avangions still alive but in hiding.
Page 17
Element Lord
What about giving them some of the abilities of an elementalist or elemental master/ and or increasing those abilities as they progress in Element Lord?
18
Element bonding
I do not like the damage tables.
Air = electricity?
Earth = Acid?
I think it is not a good idea to have the energy types from the rules be forced to associate with the 4 elements. Just because the elements may be rivals does not mean that they cannot share the same energy type of damage.
Air = Sonic?
Earth ?
Fire = Fire
Water = Cold thought could be hot boiling water damage instead which I think would fit Dark Sun better.
The damage does not increase with level?
Is there a save to avoid the hand attack damage?
Page 19
Elemental Aura
Sun aura
What if it causes Dehydration instead of being the same as fire.
“Water: You and your allies within your aura put out any source of nonmagical flame and deal an extra 1 point of cold damage on your weapon rolls.”
Should read as?
“Any source of nonmagical flame is extinguished in your aura and you and your allies that are within your aura deal an extra 1 point of cold damage on your weapon rolls.”
Elemental attack
Why is fire much better than magma? Magma is only 1d6 per level and reduces one die per round. The fire is 1d8 per level and does not reduce each round.
How long does rain attack last?
Same for air unless it uses the spell’s duration.
Silt has an acid cloud? Why not a suffocating cloud?
Presumable water does not have a duration? i.e. the water does not disappear after a certain number of turns.
The Element Lord has no ability that includes energy resistance to your element?
Page 20
Combat
“Although you'll always lag behind a single-classed divine caster in terms of sheer power -- your highest-level spells are some levels lower than those of such a character -- your caster level keeps up reasonably well “
This sentence makes no sense. You have to be able to cast 9th level spells to be this class. So you will not be casting highest level spells that are some levels lower than other casters.
Advancement
It recommends taking psionic enchantment but that is not a bonus feat?
Resources
The psionic academy description seems like a stretch.
Page 21
sample encounter
The last sentence talks about a magus instead of element lord and says a sorcerer or wizard instead of cleric or psion.
Is this Prestige class really needed?
Page 22-23
Why not a level of psion every level? These are the masters of psionics on Athas.
Also psion points stop at level 20. Should this requirement be removed for Order Adepts as the one exception to this rule similar to what I proposed for dragons and avangions and their spell progression.
Page 22
Becoming an order adept
This section mentions discipline as a prerequisite but it is not listed in the Entry Requirements?
Page 24
Organization
Mentions Chapter 6 as having information on the Order. Chapter 6 currently is Epic Monsters. This will be changing in the future right?
Order Adept Lore
“Any community large enough to have a psionic academy most likely contains at least one Order adept as member.”
This is not correct. The Order is independent from psionic academies in the cities. And has very few members there.
Shadow Shifter
This is another prestige class that I do not think is needed.
Page 26
Class Features
Shadow magic
Shadow magic does not work in the grey. What about other plains – the element plains? Also it says “and must have other methods available to them.” Since it goes on to say that the shadow shifter losses the ability to gain spell energy from plants, I assume this is saying, he better have another class with spell casting abilities if he wants to cast spells in the Grey.
Manifester level increase
Here it says this is starting at 3rd level, but the table has it starting at 2 and then another at 3 then every three levels.
Page 27
Numbing touch of darkness
For resistance purposes, what type of energy is the Black? Cold? Negative? Is that defined anywhere else in Legends and I missed it?
Psionic enchantments
If the shadow shifter did not have the same psionic enchantments as the dragon and avangion that would make them more unique.
Page 28
Advancement
Why does it mention templars with psionic abilities?
Page 29
Shadow Shifters on Athas
Why do shadow shifters know of the Order? And to avoid them.
“Since the death of the Dragon of Tyr and release and re-imprisonment of Rajaat, cities that lack a sorcerer-king have become places where shadow shifter could go, but Balic has been avoided, with Andropinis trapped in the Black.”
Why is Balic avoided because Andropinis is in the Black?
Page 29
Lore
30
Why mention advanced beings as a term?
Shadow shifters in the Game
This section says shadow shifters could be in Balic but above in Shadow Shifters on Athas it said no shadow shifters in Balic.
Sample Encounter
“With much of the chaos in the time after the death of the Dragon, adventures in Tyr may stumble upon Tenabrath Khecari in the undercity.”
What does the chaos of the dragon’s death have to do with undertyr?
“He assumes that anyone who finds him is an agent of Sadira, who he believes has begun a similar process.”
What process?
Page 30
How can Tenabrath become a nightmare beast at stage 3? He can change from medium to huge, but a nightmare beast is gargantuan.
Tenabrath is a stage 3 shadow shifter but a level 6 shadow shifter?
Shadow Shifter
This is another prestige class that I do not think is needed.
Far enough, though I thought is was a nice addition.
Page 26
Class Features
Shadow magic
Shadow magic does not work in the grey. What about other plains – the element plains? Also it says “and must have other methods available to them.” Since it goes on to say that the shadow shifter losses the ability to gain spell energy from plants, I assume this is saying, he better have another class with spell casting abilities if he wants to cast spells in the Grey.
The issue is whether or not there are shadows present. And there are other methods of storing spell energy that are listed elsewhere (staves that function as trees of life, for one example) that could work.
Manifester level increase
Here it says this is starting at 3rd level, but the table has it starting at 2 and then another at 3 then every three levels.
Thanks for the catch.
Page 27
Numbing touch of darkness
For resistance purposes, what type of energy is the Black? Cold? Negative? Is that defined anywhere else in Legends and I missed it?
It should be cold, and will be better defined when the final release happens.
Psionic enchantments
If the shadow shifter did not have the same psionic enchantments as the dragon and avangion that would make them more unique.
They have one, the Shadow Mimicry psionic enchantment. This is not that different from Dragons and Avangions, as they only have one that is different from each other.
Page 28
Advancement
Why does it mention templars with psionic abilities?
Because as the class is written, shadow templars of Andy can take this PrC.
Page 29
Shadow Shifters on Athas
Why do shadow shifters know of the Order? And to avoid them.
My assumption is that once you are epic, you will most likely know something about the other epic things on athas. Maybe not details, but I assume that they would know enough to stay away from them and their general M.O.
“Since the death of the Dragon of Tyr and release and re-imprisonment of Rajaat, cities that lack a sorcerer-king have become places where shadow shifter could go, but Balic has been avoided, with Andropinis trapped in the Black.”
Why is Balic avoided because Andropinis is in the Black?
Because Andy might be in the Black around Balic. No one knows what he is capable of.
Page 29
Lore
30
Why mention advanced beings as a term?
It is a generic term.
Shadow shifters in the Game
This section says shadow shifters could be in Balic but above in Shadow Shifters on Athas it said no shadow shifters in Balic.
Will have to retouch that.
Sample Encounter
“With much of the chaos in the time after the death of the Dragon, adventures in Tyr may stumble upon Tenabrath Khecari in the undercity.”
What does the chaos of the dragon’s death have to do with undertyr?
this might need to be rewritten for clarity. Exploration is more common in Tyr after Kalak's death and also after the earthquake and the death of the Dragon.
“He assumes that anyone who finds him is an agent of Sadira, who he believes has begun a similar process.”
What process?
A change into a shadow shifter. He thinks of her a competition.
Page 30
How can Tenabrath become a nightmare beast at stage 3? He can change from medium to huge, but a nightmare beast is gargantuan.
Tenabrath is a stage 3 shadow shifter but a level 6 shadow shifter?
Well... um. I missed that about the nightmare beast. however, he is a stage III shadow shifter in transformation and level 6 in PrC. Similar to a Stage III dragon who is a level 6 Athasian Dragon PrC.
EDIT: I found one you missed. It should say that they need to be able to manifest 6th level powers, not 9th.
Because as the class is written, shadow templars of Andy can take this PrC.
Okay, forgot about them. What about changing the wording to say,
"The shadow shifter epic prestige class can be viewed as the next logical step for shadow wizards and shadow templars with psionic abilities. "
The shadow shifter is da bomb. Hex on whoever says otherwise! ;)
Huh? What? No nobody here said it is not.
Just remember I am bias against prestige classes. ;)
Also, I hope you know this, but your feedback is always fantastic. It is very appriciated, even if I might not like what your critique is.
Spirit initiate
Is this another Prestige Class that is needed?
Why does a spirit initiate need to be a psion? It would seem that becoming a spirit of the land would be part of an ordinary druid's goals.
What do spirit initiates have to do with the unseen war? There are not elemental clerics.
Becoming a spirit initiate
“Becoming a spirit initiate requires a character to take several levels in the druid class and a few more in any other manifesting class, usually psychic warrior or wilder.”
Druid is not a manifesting class. Maybe “and a few more in any manifesting class”
32
Power of nature
I would suggest you list the powers that are transferable instead of the non-transferable powers.
33
Summon spirit of the land
Who is the boss here? The druid is the servant to the spirit of the land. Now he can summon it to his presence and make it do tasks for him.
33
Playing a spirit initiate
“You seek a fusion between the divine and the mundane, and power over all nature.”
Spirit initiates seek power over all nature??
Combat
“Your ability to summon creatures and to turn into them is your primary weapons.”
Not a good sentence. Maybe - “Your ability to summon creatures and to change your form are your primary weapons.”
“… most of your powers come from being within your guarded lands,…”
What abilities are tied to the guardian land? I did not notice any of the spirit initiate abilities tied to the guardian land.
Resources
This section is well done.
Spirit Initiates in the World
“Spirit initiates are similar to the spirits they bond. Wise, mysterious, and almost never seen. I sometimes believe them to be completely real.”
Is the quote esoteric or I am missing something?
Organization
Why would spirit initiates have any connections with the VA?
Page 34
NPC Reactions
The reasons for the negatives reactions are not explained?
Lore
20 Rangers have a connection to spirits of the land? or is this just misinformation - in which case I like it.
Spirit initiate in the game
“… are interested in serving the greater good.”
They serve the greater good? I thought druids were Neutral not Lawful Good.
T’Chai
The spirit of the land believes in humans but not the druid? I think this is giving the spirit too much of a god view. I would think it would have more of a “maybe not all are bad view” and "some could be turned in the right direction".
Arcane Channeling
I do not understand this feat. What does the penalty accomplish? I increase my caster level and decrease my manifester level, great because I am casting a spell. By the time I can use a psionic power the penalty wears off. The only things that could be affected by this feat, would be those creatures that can use both a spell and a psionic power each round like someone with All-Out Attack, like Dregoth.
“Your resulting caster or manifester level must be up to your character level. “
Should this say “cannot exceed your character level”?
Defiling resistant aura is a cool ability for avangions.
Page 37
Element Turning
Where are the opposing elements defined? How do para elemental fit into this?
Elemental Strike
Probably should show which element corresponds to which ability, and make this consistent throughout the document, such as the touch attack by clerics.
Page 38
Exotic weaponmaster
I would suggest this as a gladiator’s only feat, or as a free feat for epic gladiators.
Page 39
Improved elemental manifestation
Are there psionics with descriptors for each element and the para elements? Or does this only benefit a couple of elements like fire?
Improved favored terrain
The description does not match the ability. The description says “a master of any kind of terrain”. But the ability says “checks made within your favored terrains.”
Improved narrow mind
"Your ability to concentrate is as keen as Elven steel."
Elven steel? It is probably stolen, made of brittle ceramic with an illusion masking it as steel. Saying something is "as keen as elven steel" is probably an insult. :D
Legendary poisoner
Should the bonus be added to all poisons Created by you not just those Applied by you?
Scribe epic tattoo
"You can create psionic tattoos of epic proportions."
A tattoo of epic proportions? Sounds like it is bigger than the person wearing it. :P
“tattos of epic power” maybe?
Cone of coins
"One after another, your enemies start thinning out."
Does one victim become a pile of coins or one big six foot coin? I like the idea of a pile of coins, but the description seems to be giant coins.
Page 42
Dragon III
"As you hear the life energies fueling your metamorphosis, your body starts to become stronger, more resilient, and more reptilian. "
This sentence needs some work. You hear life energies? Maybe "As you feel the life energies fueling your metamorphosis..."
Page 44
Dragon IV
“This spell may only be cast after the defiler metamorphosis III spell has been cast, you must be of you type, ...”
You type? Your type maybe? Or must be of dragon type?
Can the structure be upgraded? Or a new one must be built?
“Scales now cover every part of your limbs, strengthening your natural armor.”
But no natural armor increase occurs at this level?
Dragon V
“(and animals in the case of dragons that have taken the Athasian dragon class)”
How can they not take the dragon class? The spell requires you to cast it with dragon magic.
Page 48
Origin of species- dray
Why not a first generation dray? Didn’t Dregoth change humans into dray first not create them out of nothing?
Also is this spell suppose to represent the process of changing humans to dray? Because right now it does not do that. It creates a new being out of nothing.
But over all, I do not like this spell here. It is only a story element, why give it stats.
Page 49
Preserver II
“This spell transforms you into the second stage towards becoming an avangion.”
Maybe it should be "This spell transforms you into a second stage avangion."
Page 50
Preserver III
“As the life force for this spell joins with you, glimmering wings sprout from your back and lift you off the ground. Your skin glitters and any chance of being mistaken for a being of life and magic are lost.”
Should this be “...any chance of not being mistaken for a being of life and magic are lost.”
The focus area for the second and third preserver metamorphosis spells are the same yes or no?
Page 51
Preserver V
“This ability is very important at this point as you is no longer able to use many magic items, that take up body slots, regularly due to the massive transformation of your body.”
Come to think of it this would affects dragons too would it not? Not being able to use certain body slots?
For all of the Metamorphosis spells I would redesign the spell lay out.
What is needed to cast the spell first, then the changes the caster undergoes, and finally the benefits gained after successfully casting the spell.
Page 54
Shadow II
To make it easier to read break up the two aura abilities into separate paragraphs
Is the structure used for this spell the same as that used in Shadow Transformation I
Shadow III
Why does the aura cause blindness? Cold causes blindness? or is this a magical darkness that prevents you from seeing while within the aura.
Page 57
Shadow V
Why are you always considered in sunlight?
Page 58
Wall of ash
That is one heck of a material component for this spell.
You did say that the other epic spells from Dragon Kings would be in the final version right? Both the wizard and priest spells?
Page 59
Some sort of heading is needed before the epic powers by psicraft DC table to separate it from the spell description before it.
Beast mastery
Why does this have a duration that is so short?
Page 60
I do not like Order’ scry power. It makes their job too easy in finding powerful psions.
Page 41
Cone of coins
"One after another, your enemies start thinning out."
Does one victim become a pile of coins or one big six foot coin? I like the idea of a pile of coins, but the description seems to be giant coins.I think it is on big coin, but I like the piles of coins better also.Page 42
Dragon III
"As you hear the life energies fueling your metamorphosis, your body starts to become stronger, more resilient, and more reptilian. "
This sentence needs some work. You hear life energies? Maybe "As you feel the life energies fueling your metamorphosis..."I like feel.Page 44
Dragon IV
“This spell may only be cast after the defiler metamorphosis III spell has been cast, you must be of you type, ...”
You type? Your type maybe? Or must be of dragon type?It should be you must be of the dragon type.Can the structure be upgraded? Or a new one must be built?It can be upgraded, or you can build a new one.“Scales now cover every part of your limbs, strengthening your natural armor.”
But no natural armor increase occurs at this level?I'll have to look at it.Dragon V
“(and animals in the case of dragons that have taken the Athasian dragon class)”
How can they not take the dragon class? The spell requires you to cast it with dragon magic.um.... uh.... ?Page 48
Origin of species- dray
Why not a first generation dray? Didn’t Dregoth change humans into dray first not create them out of nothing?
Also is this spell suppose to represent the process of changing humans to dray? Because right now it does not do that. It creates a new being out of nothing.
But over all, I do not like this spell here. It is only a story element, why give it stats.This should be looked at, but we felt that giving it stats might make it so that one could add some interesting things to it. You could make your own "perfect race" with this spell, following the format.Page 49
Preserver II
“This spell transforms you into the second stage towards becoming an avangion.”
Maybe it should be "This spell transforms you into a second stage avangion."ok.Page 50
Preserver III
“As the life force for this spell joins with you, glimmering wings sprout from your back and lift you off the ground. Your skin glitters and any chance of being mistaken for a being of life and magic are lost.”
Should this be “...any chance of not being mistaken for a being of life and magic are lost.”yupThe focus area for the second and third preserver metamorphosis spells are the same yes or no?yes.Page 51
Preserver V
“This ability is very important at this point as you is no longer able to use many magic items, that take up body slots, regularly due to the massive transformation of your body.”
Come to think of it this would affects dragons too would it not? Not being able to use certain body slots?I am not sure why this hasn't been thought of, but... Dragons still have all the normal limbs and stuff, they just are much larger.For all of the Metamorphosis spells I would redesign the spell lay out.
What is needed to cast the spell first, then the changes the caster undergoes, and finally the benefits gained after successfully casting the spell.Bruno will have to look at this.Page 54
Shadow II
Is the structure used for this spell the same as that used in Shadow Transformation IYes. it may be upgraded as well.Shadow III
Why does the aura cause blindness? Cold causes blindness? or is this a magical darkness that prevents you from seeing while within the aura.It is the magical darkness. Clairity will be added to make things less... shadowy :PPage 57
Shadow V
Why are you always considered in sunlight?Many of the abilities are conditional on being in sunlight. At this point, they don't need to be to gain the benifits.Page 58
Wall of ash
That is one heck of a material component for this spell.hehehe. yes it is.You did say that the other epic spells from Dragon Kings would be in the final version right? Both the wizard and priest spells?There are some that will be, and others that I have been working on that will be as well. I posted a "Raze City" spell on the boards that will help. I also want to do some standard SK spells that have been put in place. 2000 years of city rulership allows for some good defensive/divination type spells on the whole city.
There are some that will be, and others that I have been working on that will be as well. I posted a "Raze City" spell on the boards that will help. I also want to do some standard SK spells that have been put in place. 2000 years of city rulership allows for some good defensive/divination type spells on the whole city.
True. Didn't The Brazen Gambit describe some of the protections Hamanu had cast over his city? It has been a while since I read it. Could be good for some inspiration for some of these spells.
Beasthide plate
This is very very rare if there are only 12 nightmare beasts on Athas.
Page 64
Other items
Nightmare Beast Elixir
This is very very rare if there are only 12 nightmare beasts on Athas.
Page 65
Chatkcha of the great one
Suggested Means of Destruction
Killing a kreen makes the artifact kill you? This implies racial harmony across the kreens but they fight each other all the time.
Seems pretty easy to break too, since kreen hunt intelligent prey on a regular basis.
The Dark Lens
The description paragraph ends with “…” Is there any more or no?
Page 66
“If used in conjunction with the Steeple of Crystals in the Pristine Tower, the total bonus becomes +150.”
I do not think this is necessary here. Should be in a description of the Pristine Tower that it adds +100.
67
Dragonskin
Artifact possession
Lose manifesting ability? Strange on a psionic world like Athas.
Suggested means of destruction
10 hours or 24 hours? It says 24 hours but it loses 1 armor bonus each two hours until it reaches 0 which would only be 10 hours.
Page 68
Hearts of the Drake
Should start by saying “There are 4 of these items that are in fact…” and not “Each of these items…”
Air has 2 more powers than earth
Fire does not have summon nature’s ally V (fire elementals only) and is the only one without worm’s breath.
Page 69
Destruction
The air drake – a hurricane will not often last one week.
Earth drake – the center of an earthquake? The center of a fission in the earth caused by an earthquake?
Water drake = the sea is made of silt not water? Should it read the Last Sea?
Heartwood spear
“As long as the sap courses through the victim’s veins it resonates with the living wood of the Heartwood Spear, making its wielder immune to powers and spells originating from him, as well as to the effects of his defiling radius.”
This ability is too powerful, and the spear did not seem to work that way in the prism pentad on Kalak.
Suggested means of destruction
Halfling blood? That is too easy a way for it to be destroyed.
True. Didn't The Brazen Gambit describe some of the protections Hamanu had cast over his city? It has been a while since I read it. Could be good for some inspiration for some of these spells.
I would recommend readsing the Mythal Seed in Lost Empires of Faerun as its basically designed for uses like this. Same book also has the Shadow Seed and several more epic spells.
I was going to do the wards of Saragar and Ur Draxa but its alot of work and I got lazy.
Korgunard’s annulus
Korgunard knew oronis?
I do not like the avangion metamorphosis power of this item. The spell is mysterious and rare, not to be included in a random magical object.
Can you put the artifacts in alphabetical order?
Page 71
Ktandeo’s Cane
“When Rikus was given the Heartwood Spear by Nok, Sadira received Ktandeo’s Cane as an additional weapon to use in the defense of Tyr and the Forest Ridge.”
According to the PP, she got the cane when Ktandeo died and later Nok let her keep it.
Abilities
It is only 3 feet long how is it a quarterstaff +2? Club+2 instead?
Page 72
The aging effect.
If there are more people around should the aging be reduced for the user to 1 quarter as well since the cane has more people to pull energy from?
“Creatures immune to aging effects cannot use this ability.”
What ability? The aging effect is a side effect not an ability of the cane. Or can such creature not use the cane at all?
Destruction
“Struck with an item crafted from the Last Tree.”
This is what has happened to the cane. If this can destroy it how can it be repaired?
Page 72
Defiler Warlord’s lost arsenal
“This long conflict spawned generations of warriors and sorcerers who took part in the struggle, and as it perdured it saw the rise of powerful servants of Rajaat.”
Perdured? What is that?
Cleaver
Abilities
“or be knocked back 10 feet (falling prone instead if such movement is impossible).”
If you were knocked back 10 feet won’t you fall prone? Hehe
Page 73
The hunger
Abilities
“Once a wizard casts a spell while wearing the Hunger they become addicted to the rush of life energy; the wearer will no longer cast spells unless they first succeed at a DC 35 Will save each time he wants to gather energy.”
He cannot cast spells any more? At all? That is harsh.
Bellowing Throes
Destruction
“Be smashed against any other vorpal steel weapon, shattering the Bellowing Throes and making it nonfunctional.”
Is the bellowing throes vorpal steel? The description says it is an alloy of dark steel.
The Lion King’s Martial Regalia
What? the lion king is not Hamanu?
Leonine Fender
Taraskir ruled at the beginning of the cleansing wars?
Who buried Taraskir? Dregoth?
Page 75
Pennant of Golden Giustenal
Abilities
“…affixed to a weapon…”
Could also be affixed to a long pole or standard right? Not just a weapon?
The royal crown of Giustenal
Destruction
“The crown will shatter if ever used for any evil act”
8,000 years and the city never had a king that committed an evil act?
Page 76
Nature’s Fury
Destruction
“Sent into the Grey.”
This limits/ prevents planar adventures.
The obsidian man
“… it bears a nobleman’s kilt and baldric.”
Where on Athas do nobles wear a kilt and baldric?
Page 77
Orbs of Kalid-Ma
Just making sure is Kalid-Ma a man again?
Only the first orb can be swallowed during dragon metamorphosis? It is the only one that mentions it.
Page 79
Three or more orbs
Bull’s strength is already a power of the Confronter.
Also why say “All these effects cause a defilement area when used, just as if they had been cast by a defiler.” and go on to say in a later paragraph “Activation of any of the powers provided by the possession of three of Kalid-Ma’s Orbs, except for regeneration, causes all vegetation for one mile centered on the possessor to turn to ash as if suffering from defiler magic destruction.”
Is it 1 mile of defilement or as a defiler?
Page 80
Orphic flower
“causing the war to perdure out of sheer hope”
What does perdure mean?
Campaign use
“Most suited for high-level, preserving-versus-defiling campaigns involving the Veiled Alliance, or even the remnants of such organizations as the Wind Mages, …”
The wind mages are still around? I would not make the comment about the wind mages. I do not see anywhere else that it has been mentioned that they are still around. Of course nothing says that they are not still around, so that leaves it open as to whether they are or are not. But saying there are remnants makes it so they are still around.
How does one wear/ possess the flower. It is very big? Do you carry it in one hand? Wear it pinned to your shirt?
Page 82
Planar Gate
Campaign Use
Wow a mention of the nightmare gate. A little obscure and rarely mentioned item.
Page 83
Destruction
The planar gate is neutral why does it care about evil acts.
In the adventure it could be destroyed by taking 100hp of damage.
The Swords of Rajaat
Why would Rajaat make 3 swords for his 15 champions?
Page 86
Scourge of Rkard
Possession
Why does the scourge want to fight dragons?
Page 87
Destruction
“Bath it in the elemental waters that are now Rajaat.”
Huh? Rajaat is water now?
Silencer
History
“Its armies and magicians jealously guarded the lands of the city-state while the rulers refused all offers of alliance with the warring defilers and preservers.”
Do you mean psions or maybe preservers, instead of magicians?
Page 88
Book of Kemalok Kings
Need to reorganize. The first section talks about the book’s theft but you have not discussed the circumstances of the theft yet.
History
Er’Stali was in Urik not Kled before the war? He was brought to Kled at the end of the war.
Page 89
Crown of dwarven kings
Campaign use
“The Crown could also have been the victim of theft, as was the Book of Kemalok Kings, and involved characters could be charged with its retrieval.”
It has already been stolen once. May mention that.
Abilities
“Friendly dwarven troops within a 360-ft. emanation of the wearer become braver than normal. Allies within a 360-ft. emanation of the wearer become braver than normal,..”
Dwarves or allies? Who gets the bless benefits?
I do not like the world wide power? Maybe limit to 1,000 miles or so. Who said dwarves are that unified racial across the whole world.
Page 90
Duryn’s Anvil
Is it made of metal? The description does not say.
Page 92
Rod of teeth
“It was last known to be in the possession of a defiler named Xactan, who lived alone in the Tablelands.”
Could you not narrow it down more than the Tablelands? A city or region?
Abilities
If it is made of a femur bone how can it be as long as a quarterstaff+2? Club+2? Or is it a giant's femur bone?
The Ruby Heart
“A non-evil character holding the gem gains two negative levels as long as it is held. During this time, no means can overcome these negative levels (including restoration spells and powers).”
I do not like this. The original item seemed to have an aspect of temptation. Using the destructive power it had to offer to tempt its user to evil. If it punishes anyone non-evil who picks it up they are not going to be tempted.
Page 93
The Skull of Dorag Thel
History
“After Dorag’s death, preservers venerated him as a visionary, and he became, in death, a sort of patron to the early Veiled Alliance members.”
They did not have a VA then. See Veiled Alliance. It is only 500 years old, which is long after the planet became a wasteland.
Page 95
Sunray
History
This item is not finished?
Abilities
It gains power when wielded by a druid or preserver? It is a bastard sword, strange that it increases in power when wielded by those not proficient with it. What about including ranger too?
Sun’s terrible glory
“Made as a desperate last attempt to survive, this item is coveted by all sun clerics alike.”
This sentence means what? What does the fact that it was made in desperation have to do with all sun clerics looking for it?
Abilities
I do not like the anti-undead abilities of this item or the sunlight equals damage to undead. To me, the old cliché of sunlight kills undead does not fit Athas. The sun is a huge part of the landscape of Athas and its desert, where the undead roam both day and night. It does not seem to me that the day/ night system still works on Athas.
Page 96
Topassima’s tama
Campaign use
“Since they would have to fight with the entire Airhunter tribe to have it, they quickly change their minds about it.”
Huh?? Who is changing their mind?
Abilities
Why would battledancers and elemental singers want the Tama. Battledancers and elemental singers get no bonus from using this item.
“Creatures that already have the bardic music ability use their character level or total Hit Dice (whichever is greater) instead of their bard level to determine which bardic music abilities they can access.”
The bonus is for multiclass bards and other classes that have taken perform and nothing for single class bards.
Page 97
Tree staff
Abilities
“…a tree staff continues to increase in power as it ages.”
I do not like this. The tree of life is dead, to build the staff. The staff should have its power frozen at the time of the tree’s death.
It says to see tree of life in terror of the dead lands on page 39?
I do not see it there? Where is tree of life?
Destruction
“Be stricken against a tree of death.”
Is it a tree of death or undeath?
Veiling amulet
Is it Farlcunn or Farclunn?
I thought it was Farlcunn.
Page 80
Orphic flower
“causing the war to perdure out of sheer hope”
What does perdure mean?
If I may say . . . check in the dictionary.
Dictionary.com.
“Most suited for high-level, preserving-versus-defiling campaigns involving the Veiled Alliance, or even the remnants of such organizations as the Wind Mages, …”
The wind mages are still around? I would not make the comment about the wind mages. I do not see anywhere else that it has been mentioned that they are still around. Of course nothing says that they are not still around, so that leaves it open as to whether they are or are not. But saying there are remnants makes it so they are still around.
The phrase is worded as an hypothetical.
A DM can create a storyline that reveals the Wind Mages - or some such ancient sorcerer sect - are still around or are going through a revival.
How does one wear/ possess the flower. It is very big? Do you carry it in one hand? Wear it pinned to your shirt?
As per the initial description of the item, it's a decorative item the size of a fist or so. Failing to mention it's a pin, hat, or somesuch, indicates it really is a fist-sized object, just like a rock or any other object is, as long as it's not otherwise categorized as a garment or jewelry.
Is the bellowing throes vorpal steel? The description says it is an alloy of dark steel.
Athas.org vetoed the additon of vorpal steel or Rajaatsblood as materials. These few mentions are errors that probably occured due to document mix ups. One version of the doc was corrected, but another version was implemented, etc.
The Lion King’s Martial Regalia
What? the lion king is not Hamanu?
Leonine Fender
Taraskir ruled at the beginning of the cleansing wars?
Who buried Taraskir? Dregoth?
Who was Taraskir, what his surname was, and who buried him and why and when, is all found in TSR's writings in City by the Silt Sea.
Page 85
The Swords of Rajaat
Why would Rajaat make 3 swords for his 15 champions?
Because TSR decided so? Poetic balance? Geometric beauty?
Page 87
Destruction
“Bath it in the elemental waters that are now Rajaat.”
Huh? Rajaat is water now?
...huh. You wouldn't have read the Prism Pentad novels, by any chance?
History
Er’Stali was in Urik not Kled before the war? He was brought to Kled at the end of the war.
So you did read the novels. Then I'm confused.
Page 92
Rod of teeth
“It was last known to be in the possession of a defiler named Xactan, who lived alone in the Tablelands.”
Could you not narrow it down more than the Tablelands? A city or region?
You can thank the Book of Artifacts for that. I sure do.
History
“After Dorag’s death, preservers venerated him as a visionary, and he became, in death, a sort of patron to the early Veiled Alliance members.”
They did not have a VA then. See Veiled Alliance. It is only 500 years old, which is long after the planet became a wasteland.
The phrase doesn't say the early VA was concurrent with Dorag's death, only that it was inspired by it. They read records, after the facts, whenever, and were inspired by the tale.
Page 95
Sunray
History
This item is not finished?
You mean because of this single phrase?: "The item currently resides in [see forest maker 33] XXX."
Abilities
I do not like the anti-undead abilities of this item or the sunlight equals damage to undead. To me, the old cliché of sunlight kills undead does not fit Athas. The sun is a huge part of the landscape of Athas and its desert, where the undead roam both day and night. It does not seem to me that the day/ night system still works on Athas.
It's not using the sun cliche, it's using the Dark Sun element of Sun. Elemental force = anti-undead.
Terrors of the Dead Lands lists a vulnerability to the sun in the section on undead special abilties, in the first few chapters.
Veiling amulet
Is it Farlcunn or Farclunn?
I thought it was Farlcunn.
It's the latter. Anything else is a typo.
If I may say . . . check in the dictionary.
Dictionary.com.
Ok, but the sentence does not seem to make any sense.
"causing the war to endure/ last permanently out of sheer hope."
Who was Taraskir, what his surname was, and who buried him and why and when, is all found in TSR's writings in City by the Silt Sea.
I know who Taraskir is. I am just saying that hearing someone called the Lion King, I think of Hamanu before anyone else. :P
...huh. You wouldn't have read the Prism Pentad novels, by any chance?
Yes I have. But I still do not see that Rajaat is water now.
Overall most all of the monsters could use more description. What they look like. How big they are. From the current descriptions it is difficult to tell between a fire drake and a magma drake?
Page 99
Champion
Sample Encounter
“Champions of Rajaat are almost found alone.”
Alone, don’t they lead whole armies?
Special Qualities
“Champions of Rajaat do not age, and they do not need to eat, sleep, or breathe.”
They do not eat, sleep or breathe? I have never heard that about them. I thought they were alive but immortal.
Immunities
The champions have a lot of immunities here that I would not have guest.
Regeneration
They regenerate too. Never heard them doing that.
But No AC bonus? It mentioned their skin was strong above, but they do not get an AC bonus.
102
Air drake
The elemental power is wimpy for an epic creature. How about this for a breath weapon attack? The air drake’s attack is of superheated air that it blows in a cone or line attack that causes so much damage (say 8d8 hp which is half what the fire drake causes). At the same time everyone in the area of effect begins to suffocate as drake has forced the air from their lungs.
Psionics
The regular air drake and the true air drake have the same psionics. Nothing new that the epic one has?
Page 103
Earth Drake
Strategies
“The drake directs psionic attacks against ranged opponents, even as it attempts to enclose them.”
As it attempts “to close with them” maybe?
Water Drake
Elemental Attack
What about improving the water drake’s attack? The drake can conjure the sphere of water but it does not collapse as soon as it is summoned. Instead it stays in place and anyone trapped in it who cannot break water begins to drown. At the end of a set duration or when the water drake wants, the sphere collapses causing the crushing damage as stated.
Page 108
Ecology
Typical Physical Characteristics
“Pure drakes are typically 80 feet long from snout to the tip of the tail, though truly ancient drakes can be up twice as long.”
Each drake has a different body type. Some are long and thin, others short and rounded. I do not think you can make such a general statement about them.
Mind lord
Absorb equipment
I do not like this ability. It seems to be there just because of how much the rules are weighted towards equipment. But the idea just does not seem realistic. Absorbing something into obsidian.
110
Knowledge
30+CR
“Mindlords can be of almost any kind, and…”
Any kind of what?
Creating a mindlord
Why does it have a deflection AC bonus? It is an obsidian rock
A mind lord can fly? If it has the psionics to do so okay, but what innate ability allows it to fly.
Why are its abilities scores increased and why so high? You are being locked into an obsidian orb, a process that was created for criminals not to gain power for the ambitious.
Enduring focus
“…it reforms 1d4 days after its apparent death.”
Makes it sound like a lich. Are you talking about the projected image of the mind lord being killed and coming back? If so that should happen as soon as the mind lord regains enough power points.
How big is the obsidian orb. Only says large.
How far away from the orb can the mind lord go? Is there no limitation? (I would say no) A large limitation? Say 10 miles per level of psion?
Page 111
Nightmare beast
Nightmare only effects a 50’ radius? That seems small considering how big the creature is.
Ecology
“When slain, a nightmare beast’s body decays at an unnaturally fast rate; it is believed that the magical energies that created it dissipate upon its death, leading to a sudden degeneration of its corpse.”
A number of magical objects have been said to be made from their hide both in this book and in AE. How can they be if the corpse decays at an unnatural rate. And see this under treasure
“Nightmare beast do not collect treasure, though they often leave valuables in their wake. The horns, claws and teeth of a nightmare beast are sought after as the source of excellent weaponry and rumors persist that its horns can be used as the ingredient in a paste with powers similar to (but far more potent than) esperweed.”
Page 113
Magma elemental
Burn(Ex)
How much of the elemental's damage is fire damage?
Rain elemental
Chill metal
Is the save Charisma based and not constitution based?
Page 114
Silt elemental
A silt elemental deals acid damage? Why?
The acid’s effect on bone and obsidian is? Metal and wood are mentioned but not bone and obsidian.
Page 115
Knowledge
That is a big jump from 12 to 74.
Pyreen are vulnerable to cold iron?
That is new.
Ecology
The Pyreen join the Veiled Alliance?
That seems far fetched. There has never been a mention of such happening, and their motives and methods are different.
“Pyreen do not age, and there is little difference between the males and females.”
There is little difference between males and females? Huh?
117
Ruvoka
Zuleta is a human ruvoka? She isn’t a ruvoka?
Infuse Weapon
Chart
Damage types need some improvement. Same as was done before in the other sections that mentioned elements.
Somewhere it would be helpful to have a chart saying Brajeti are earth element, Ethilum are air, and such.
The ruvoka are made in a ritual and are not a race?
Page 119
Sample encounter
The ruvoka have guardian lands?
Or is this a reference to a ruvoka that is also a druid?
That is almost the end of my comments. I still have a couple of places I skipped over when posting comments before, for one reason or another. I will collect them all and post them in a day or so.
40
Spirit of the Land Wild Shape
It is hard to decide if I like this or not without looking at the stats for a spirit of the land, to see how powerful the character becomes.
Perhaps a fix and a suggestion for the spirit of the land itself. What if the spirit has some sort of avatar form. Maybe a giant earth elemental type form or such that it can assume at will. This is the form it normally uses to interact with creatures, but its true form is something less substantial. The Spirit of the Land wild shape feat would then allow the druid to assume the avatar form of the spirit and only gain those abilities associated with that form.
83
psionatrix
It can only dampen psionics in a 10 mile radius for 3 hours? That is not much of an area. It covered much more of Athas in the adventure. Even with its supporting apparatus multiplied by 10, 100 miles is not that big.
All psionics is prevented completely not just make more difficult like it was in the adventure? Of course this is a little more difficult to do in 3 ed since there is no manifestation roll for psionics. Maybe make a concentration check or psicraft check with a high DC?
Last I understand that epic npcs will be included in the final version. Just curious as to what level will Kalid-ma be? The 2nd edition description of the Orbs of Kalid-Ma said if he were revived he would be 27th level right? Or will he be his pre transformation 22nd level?
Page 76
Nature’s Fury
Destruction
“Sent into the Grey.”
This limits/ prevents planar adventures.
Guess that means Nature's Fury stays home that adventure :P
Page 6
Gladiator
Is the bonus feat, a bonus fighter feat or any feat?
any feat.
Epic Templar
The quoter is from Digit? Where is Digit?
Typo.
“Growing under the shadow of their sorcerer-king, those who develop such amount of power are executed without second thought.”
This first sentence of the first paragraph is not well written and needs some work. I am not sure what it is trying to imply.
Is this better? "Growing under the shadow of their sorcerer-king, those templars who develop such amount of power and influence are executed without second thought."
Page 7
I do not understand the blue shading rules. Maybe take a look at some of the items in blue on this page. And for that matter throughout the document.
Blue is an OGC term. I use a macro for this as sometimes it doesn't work as it should.
Epic Templar Knight
Table 1-7
Levels 15 and 20 both have Smite 4/ day. At level 20 it should be Smite 5/ day, no?
Stop pointing out my stupid mistakes. :P
Page 9
The increase in manifester levels every 4 levels seems too rare? Should they increase more often every 2-3 levels?
I really don't know. I was waiting for playtesting feedback, but I never received any. So I really don't know how strong/weak it is... Where is Terminus Vortexa when you need him?
Arcane spellcasting levels – The dragon gains new spells per day every other level. But at some point this becomes a useless ability. For epic arcane spellcasters after 20th level they no longer gain any spells per day, right? So assuming a defiler becomes a dragon when he is at 17th level defiler, by the time he gains 6th level in the dragon PrC he is maxed out in number of spells per day. The bonus at 8 and 10 levels do nothing to increase the number of spells per day, according to the epic rules. Could this be a case to bend this epic rule and give dragons (same for avangions) more spells per day at 8 and 10 level? As an incentive to become a dragon instead of remaining a wizard?
This problem effects all of these prestige classes as some point.
You are right. This is one of the many things sucky about epic levels. I tried to come up with different abilities for the ABs to circumvent this, but I couldn't find much.
I do not like the “Path of least resistance” power. Why award redundancy? This only works for someone who wastes power known slots on spells they already know. I suppose it makes some sense, in that someone who has learned both may gain some specialitiy with it.
You need to give up too much in terms of power and flexibility to become one, this is a way to reward you a bit for that.
Arcane Augmentation
Do you give up a spell to gain power points or only the chance to augment a power by so many more points?
You increase your pp per manifestation cap.
Boo for the Dragon Metamorphosis ability and same for avangion
The original spells for the metamorphosis process (in 2nd edition) described the spells as extremely rare and difficult to learn. This bonus seems to make it too easy to develop the spells.
I am always accepting suggestions to improve material.
Page 10
Shouldn’t hit dice be higher than 6 for a dragon? We are talking about very aggressive powerful creatures. In Dragon Kings a strange varying format was used were the dragon gained different hp per level, but the lowest was 2d4. What about 8 HD or even a 10?
I agree 100% with you. I think they are not as strong as they should on many aspects. One of the things I needed public response to be able to change...
12
NPC Reactions
"Their templars and agents are usually friendly towards them..."
Why are templars and agents friendly towards dragons? And what are agents?
Dragons = SKs. Agent = anyone working for them, like royal defilers.
12The example, Terras, is not a current known dragon? Like one of the sorcerer-kings or Falcunn?
Purely for example purposes. Or is it? :evillaugh
Page 14
Avangion magic
Can others use you to power their spells. For instance a group travels to the Deadlands, and includes a avangion and other preservers. Can the other preservers use the avangion to power their spells? What if the avangion is over a certain level? Remember Arcane Shadows when the defiler wanted to use "someone" as a source of power?
No, but it would make a kick ass feat. :D
Metapotency
I assume this does not interact with metamixture.
Right, I should make that more obvious.
Psionic enchantments are cool and it would be great if there were more of them so they gained one every level.
Be my guest to come up with more
Page 15
Advancement
Oronis gave the spell to Korgunard??
Yes, IIRC that's why he blamed himself when he got killed and stopped giving copies.
Resources
What about mentioning defilers who want to use you as a source of power?
Good one.
There are lots of comments that seem to indicate the VA knows how to make avangions, but there is only one instance of this, and another Raam where they have studied for years but have not figured it out.
I got that impression when reading the 2e material.
Knowledge
20 seems too low to know what an avangion is.
30 seems too low to know that there are avangions still alive but in hiding.
I increased each to 20, 30, 40, 50. Is that enough?
Page 17
Element Lord
What about giving them some of the abilities of an elementalist or elemental master/ and or increasing those abilities as they progress in Element Lord?
Hmm. Care to elaborate?
18
Element bonding
I do not like the damage tables.
Air = electricity?
Earth = Acid?
I think it is not a good idea to have the energy types from the rules be forced to associate with the 4 elements. Just because the elements may be rivals does not mean that they cannot share the same energy type of damage.
Air = Sonic?
Earth ?
Fire = Fire
Water = Cold thought could be hot boiling water damage instead which I think would fit Dark Sun better.
Yeah, I struggled with them myself, but in the end I could not find anything better. I need more playtest info.
The damage does not increase with level?
Is there a save to avoid the hand attack damage?
How would you increase it? Usually touch attacks do not get a save, I think it balances it out.
Page 19
Elemental Aura
Sun aura
What if it causes Dehydration instead of being the same as fire.
What I would really like is to give a dessicating effect like they have in Sandstorm, but that is not OGC...
“Water: You and your allies within your aura put out any source of nonmagical flame and deal an extra 1 point of cold damage on your weapon rolls.”
Should read as?
“Any source of nonmagical flame is extinguished in your aura and you and your allies that are within your aura deal an extra 1 point of cold damage on your weapon rolls.”
Done.
Elemental attack
Why is fire much better than magma? Magma is only 1d6 per level and reduces one die per round. The fire is 1d8 per level and does not reduce each round.
Dunno. I borrowed from the drake's attacks. I guess because magma is "inpure"?
How long does rain attack last?
Same for air unless it uses the spell’s duration.
Fixed.
Silt has an acid cloud? Why not a suffocating cloud?
Because silt does acid damage in ToA 3.5
The Element Lord has no ability that includes energy resistance to your element?
I figured you didn't need it since you probably have levels in elementalist in order to qualify for the prc.
Page 20
Combat
“Although you'll always lag behind a single-classed divine caster in terms of sheer power -- your highest-level spells are some levels lower than those of such a character -- your caster level keeps up reasonably well “
This sentence makes no sense. You have to be able to cast 9th level spells to be this class. So you will not be casting highest level spells that are some levels lower than other casters.
Fixed. It should only mention caster level.
Advancement
It recommends taking psionic enchantment but that is not a bonus feat?
It recommends taking meta feats because of the PEs.
Resources
The psionic academy description seems like a stretch.
Toned it down a bit.
Page 21
sample encounter
The last sentence talks about a magus instead of element lord and says a sorcerer or wizard instead of cleric or psion.
Fixed.
Is this better? "Growing under the shadow of their sorcerer-king, those templars who develop such amount of power and influence are executed without second thought."
No. It should say something like:
"Living in the shadow of their sorcerer-king, those templars who develop such power and influence are executed without a second thought."
Psionic enchantments:
Be my guest to come up with more
Yes master. (These templars are real demanding.)
I increased each to 20, 30, 40, 50. Is that enough?
Probably.
Hmm. Care to elaborate?
I do not think they should have all of these abilities but some possiblities are
From the Elementalist they could have:
Energy resistance – that is 5 every 5 levels.
Elemental shield – lasts 1 round/ level.
Ignore element – lasts 1 minute/ level.
From the Elemental Master:
Elemental focus – spell DC increases by 1 every 2 or 3 levels.
Summon elemental – increases 1 use per day every 2 or 3 levels.
And these abilities would stack with those granted by the PSC. So an Element Lord level 2 with 5 levels of Elementalist could ignore his element for 7 minutes, and increases the DC for his element spells by 1.
How would you increase it? Usually touch attacks do not get a save, I think it balances it out.
But a 1d8 damage attack is not going to be useful to a 35 level character. What about 1d8 per level of Element Lord?
What I would really like is to give a dessicating effect like they have in Sandstorm, but that is not OGC...
It is too bad we cannot use it.
Because silt does acid damage in ToA 3.5
Mmm. When is that next up for revision? :P
I figured you didn't need it since you probably have levels in elementalist in order to qualify for the prc.
Well see my comment above about giving them some of these abilities.
And Brun01. Can you change the thread name to include a Dark Sun tag. I tried but cannot.
And the ususual sentiment. Blah, blah blah... I cannot believe they are doing this... Blah, blah, blah... our forum is doomed...blah, blah.
Next thing you know, they will only give us Eberron similies.
And Brun01. Can you change the thread name to include a Dark Sun tag. I tried but cannot.
And the ususual sentiment. Blah, blah blah... I cannot believe they are doing this... Blah, blah, blah... our forum is doomed...blah, blah.
Next thing you know, they will only give us Eberron similies.
I think only the creator of the thread can edit the name. I'll ask flip.
I altered the element lord bonding ability.
I think only the creator of the thread can edit the name. I'll ask flip.
I altered the element lord bonding ability.
I tried, it changed the title of my starting post, but not the title of the thread.
Order Adept
Is this Prestige class really needed?
Define "needed".:P I think they're too powerful not to have one.
Page 22-23
Why not a level of psion every level? These are the masters of psionics on Athas.
Also psion points stop at level 20. Should this requirement be removed for Order Adepts as the one exception to this rule similar to what I proposed for dragons and avangions and their spell progression.
It's that stupid epic rule I mentioned earlier...
Page 22
Becoming an order adept
This section mentions discipline as a prerequisite but it is not listed in the Entry Requirements?
Good catch.
Page 24
Organization
Mentions Chapter 6 as having information on the Order. Chapter 6 currently is Epic Monsters. This will be changing in the future right?
If I ever manage to finish the Epic Organizations, yes.
Order Adept Lore
“Any community large enough to have a psionic academy most likely contains at least one Order adept as member.”
This is not correct. The Order is independent from psionic academies in the cities. And has very few members there.
That's why the "most likely" in there, silly. Reading the 2e books I found that several of them had one member or two..
Shadow Shifter
This is another prestige class that I do not think is needed.
Don't tell this to Chris or he'll raze city your ass.
Also, could you read Band's comments and work on them, please?
Page 70
Korgunard’s annulus
Korgunard knew oronis?
I do not like the avangion metamorphosis power of this item. The spell is mysterious and rare, not to be included in a random magical object.
All artifacts are Penn and Meth's, except the really good ones, those are mine :D
Can you put the artifacts in alphabetical order?
They are, but we have subsections, like The Defiler Warlords’ Lost Arsenal, which contain artifacts inside ordered within that section. I could remove the subsections if that proves too hard to find what you need.
Page 71
Ktandeo’s Cane
“When Rikus was given the Heartwood Spear by Nok, Sadira received Ktandeo’s Cane as an additional weapon to use in the defense of Tyr and the Forest Ridge.”
According to the PP, she got the cane when Ktandeo died and later Nok let her keep it.
There are some contradictions between PP and PAoA that I have never managed to reconciliate...
Abilities
It is only 3 feet long how is it a quarterstaff +2? Club+2 instead?
You tell me, I always get confused with that inch/foot nonsense.
Page 72
The aging effect.
If there are more people around should the aging be reduced for the user to 1 quarter as well since the cane has more people to pull energy from?
Good point. Altered.
“Creatures immune to aging effects cannot use this ability.”
What ability? The aging effect is a side effect not an ability of the cane. Or can such creature not use the cane at all?
Fixed the wording.
Destruction
“Struck with an item crafted from the Last Tree.”
This is what has happened to the cane. If this can destroy it how can it be repaired?
Usually when an artifact's destroyed it is destroyed for good. Never thought about repairing it...
Page 73
The hunger
Abilities
“Once a wizard casts a spell while wearing the Hunger they become addicted to the rush of life energy; the wearer will no longer cast spells unless they first succeed at a DC 35 Will save each time he wants to gather energy.”
He cannot cast spells any more? At all? That is harsh.
I'm assuming Penn has gone through your comments. If that lazy Canadian has left anything unanswered, let me know.
Have I left any post of yours unanswered, Band?
There are some contradictions between PP and PAoA that I have never managed to reconciliate...
I guess it could be said the staff came into her possession at Ktandeo's death, but she didn't actually legitimately receive it (it was to be returned to Nok in PP, if I remember correctly) until after Nok's trial. So, technically, she got it twice, in a way.
You tell me, I always get confused with that inch/foot nonsense.
A quarterstaff is about the height of a man, about 6 six feet long.
Unless it is a buck and a quarter staff, but I am not telling you about that. :P
Have I left any post of yours unanswered, Band?
Yes looks like it.
Unless it is a buck and a quarter staff, but I am not telling you about that. :P
Yoicks . . . and away?
Do you know what happenend with the athas.org website ?????
It seems dead.
Thanks,
Al.