Inspired by other threads for house rules on this forum, I want to discuess specifically Defiling. I am looking for a more dangerous/exciting/creative and flavorful way to run Defiling.
Here is what I am looking at currently, but I am GREATLY interested to see what other folks may be doing.
Defiling
You may use defiling with ANY power (not just dailies), so defiling is truely always an option.
If your defiling re-roll is a natural 19-20 the following conditions apply each ally within 20 squares of you takes his FULL healing surge value in damage. Additionally, the damage to the world extends out a number of squares equal to the level of the power you are using, x2.
I am looking at options to have the damage apply to monsters as well (anyone in the radius) so again, really curious to see what everyone else is doing (and is anyone doing it strictly "by the book"?)
www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/lobes-da...
I wanted Defiling to be powerful and tempting and somewhat like the Dark Side of the Force, where the more you use it, the more you can't stop using it (hence the Marks of Defiling).
Here's what I'm doing in my campaign:
www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/lobes-da...
I wanted Defiling to be powerful and tempting and somewhat like the Dark Side of the Force, where the more you use it, the more you can't stop using it (hence the Marks of Defiling).
Thats pretty cool/creative!
PRESERVING AND DEFILING
These rules replace and enhance the defiling rules in the Dark Sun Campaign Setting.
Who Can Defile?
Characters with the Arcane power source preserve or defile according to these rules, except Bards and Warlocks. Bards automatically preserve – their arcane spells draw their power from their audience through a sympathetic principle, and generally require so little power that they do not affect the environment – and Warlocks draw their arcane power through their pact, usually with a Sorcerer-King. The source of the Warlock’s pact usually preserves or defiles when power is drawn, but it does not affect the Warlock’s powers.
Preserve or Defile?
All arcane powers except those mentioned above defile or preserve. Preserving magic does not drain from the surrounding living matter because preservers carefully replace the energy their siphon with their spells; defiling magic creates a blackened radius around the caster. Use of the Arcane Defiling power is not necessary to defile, and dedicated defilers receive additional benefits. Preserving magic, in contrast, takes longer to recover from and requires special training.
The Arcane Defiling Power
All arcane spellcasters retain access to the Arcane Defiling power as described on page 80 of the Dark Sun Campaign Setting. However, Arcane Defiling no longer damages allies when used; instead, all allies within 20 squares suddenly feel weak. Opponents receive Combat Advantage against them for one round.
Dedicated Defilers
Arcane spellcasters who devote themselves to defiling receive additional benefits. A character who defiles for all of their spells in a given day receives an extra Action Point at the beginning of the day and an additional extra Action Point at every milestone. If the defiler uses any preserving magic, they must immediately remove an Action Point and no longer get extra action points for dedicated defiling until after an extended rest. This may put them at negative Action Points.
New Feat: Preserver
In order to use preserver magics, characters must purchase the Preserver feat. This allows the character to disguise their magic according to the rules in the Dark Sun Campaign Setting on page 80. Preserving requires more time than defiling to recharge energy, however, as they must siphon magical power more slowly. Preservers must rest for at least 10 minutes to benefit from the power recharging of a Short Rest.
I thought I would start out with what was in the 2nd edition setting.
2nd edition defiling:
Memorizing spells defiles an area in yards based on spell level and location (Forest or boulder fields)
Effect on living creatures though only plants are destroyed within the radius, living creatures also suffer.
Any being in the radius of a defilers magical summing makes an immediate save vs spell.
If the save succeeds, there is no effect.
If the save fails, the being receives an initiative modifier penalty equal to the level of the highest spell memorized.
This modifier comes into play at the first opportune moment.
The pain can never keep a character from performing an action during a round. The initiative penalty only postpones when the action occurs.
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for comparison here is the current 4th edition version
4th edition Official Arcane Defiling
Arcane feature
At-Will * Arcane, Necrotic
Free action Personal
Trigger: you make an attack roll or a damage roll as part of an arcane daily attack power.
Effect: you can reroll the trigger roll but mist use the second result, in addition each ally (willing or
Unwilling) within 20 squares of you takes necrotic damage equal to half his or her healing surge value.
This damage ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in any way.
Special: you can use this effect once for any arcane daily attack power you use, affecting any single attack roll or the damage roll for that power
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and here is my idea:
My House rule;
Arcane Defiling
Arcane feature
Encounter Arcane, Necrotic
Free action Personal
Trigger – you cast an arcane spell
Effect: you add a +4 to the attack and +1D6 necrotic damage per tier to the damage.
In addition each creature with in a 20 square burst of you is slowed until the end of their next turn.
Special: you can use this effect twice in an encounter but only once per turn
I posted this awhile ago
and here is my idea:
My House rule;
Arcane Defiling
Arcane feature
Encounter Arcane, Necrotic
Free action Personal
Trigger – you cast an arcane spell
Effect: you add a +4 to the attack and +1D6 necrotic damage per tier to the damage.
In addition each creature with in a 20 square burst of you is slowed until the end of their next turn.
Special: you can use this effect twice in an encounter but only once per turn
You know, I think your onto something here. However, I think that +4 is pretty dang powerful. Then again, depends on the cost. To me, slowing every creature is not really worth it.
I might adopt part of this. +2 to hit, mabye +1d6 damage for every 5 levels. Something that increases damage, but have damage to all creatures within range equal to the half the surge valude of the caster (minions are dazed).
Still working...still working...
I don't particuarlly care for the inherent conditions affecting animal life at level one. In 2E (campaigns and novels), only the most powerful of defilers could affect the local fauna. However defiling did empower spells... I also agree that there should be almost an addictive quality to defiling, while preserving should require more discipline.
Perhaps:
- Defiling is the default action for arcane spell casters (excluding warlocks who derive thier energy from thier pact)
- Each creature targeted by a spell empowered with defiling magic takes a -2 penatly to any required saving throw rolls.
- +1 damage modifier for each die of damage per tier, i.e. +2 at paragorn and +3 at epic.
- At heroic levels, defiling only affects the local plantlife. Burst 1 for every 3 levels of the spell, rounding down. All plantlife in this area is turned to ash. (If anyone has any suggestions on how this may affect terrain, please share. Terrain affects ally's and enemies alike).
- Anyone within sight of the burst radius may roll a perception check +1/spell level to identify the caster as a defiler.
- Anyone taking the Master Defiler PP or the Dragon King ED WILL (not a choice) also affect animal life in the burst. Levels 11-20: All creatures within the zone must make a save or become weakened. Levels 21-30: All creatures within the zone must save or become weakened and slowed. (Note: anyone taking either of these paths can no longer choose to preserve).
- Anyone caught defiling not under the SK protection will be hunted by local officials.
- Those defiling will find it more and more difficult to resist the temptation. Marks for defiling will be gained for each spell (as written by Tyrantlobe) cast with defiling magic. For each mark there is a 10% chance any additional spells cast will result in defiling (with the normal afore mentioned rules)
- Marks may only be removed after an extended rest and an Arcana + mark count check.
- Any defiler with a mark count over 2 receives a -2 to saves vs. Primal magic and a -2 to all Diplomacy checks. The modifier to saves vs. Primal magic becomes -3 for Master Defilers and -4 for Dragon Kings.
- Pyreen and Avangion alike are immune to the effects of defiling. Anyone within the aura of the Avangion is also immune.
To add to this:
Feat: Judicious Defiling
Prerequisite: Master Defiler, Dragon King
Description: Any allies within the defiling burst can roll twice for the save and take the higher result.
Seems fairly balanced. Thoughts?
I don't particuarlly care for the inherent conditions affecting animal life at level one. In 2E (campaigns and novels), only the most powerful of defilers could affect the local fauna. However defiling did empower spells... I also agree that there should be almost an addictive quality to defiling, while preserving should require more discipline.
Perhaps:
- Defiling is the default action for arcane spell casters (excluding warlocks who derive thier energy from thier pact)
- Each creature targeted by a spell empowered with defiling magic takes a -2 penatly to any required saving throw rolls.
- +1 damage modifier for each die of damage per tier, i.e. +2 at paragorn and +3 at epic.
- At heroic levels, defiling only affects the local plantlife. Burst 1 for every 3 levels of the spell, rounding down. All plantlife in this area is turned to ash. (If anyone has any suggestions on how this may affect terrain, please share. Terrain affects ally's and enemies alike).
- Anyone within sight of the burst radius may roll a perception check +1/spell level to identify the caster as a defiler.
- Anyone taking the Master Defiler PP or the Dragon King ED WILL (not a choice) also affect animal life in the burst. Levels 11-20: All creatures within the zone must make a save or become weakened. Levels 21-30: All creatures within the zone must save or become weakened and slowed. (Note: anyone taking either of these paths can no longer choose to preserve).
- Anyone caught defiling not under the SK protection will be hunted by local officials.
- Those defiling will find it more and more difficult to resist the temptation. Marks for defiling will be gained for each spell (as written by Tyrantlobe) cast with defiling magic. For each mark there is a 10% chance any additional spells cast will result in defiling (with the normal afore mentioned rules)
- Marks may only be removed after an extended rest and an Arcana + mark count check.
- Any defiler with a mark count over 2 receives a -2 to saves vs. Primal magic and a -2 to all Diplomacy checks. The modifier to saves vs. Primal magic becomes -3 for Master Defilers and -4 for Dragon Kings.
- Pyreen and Avangion alike are immune to the effects of defiling. Anyone within the aura of the Avangion is also immune.
To add to this:
Feat: Judicious Defiling
Prerequisite: Master Defiler, Dragon King
Description: Any allies within the defiling burst can roll twice for the save and take the higher result.
Seems fairly balanced. Thoughts?
I like. I'm not sure I like the idea of keeping up with defiling marks, but probably not a big deal. I'm about to post something myself I've been working on, see what you guys think.
Arcane Defiling Arcane Feature
When you use any arcane power, you can choose to defile, destroying mundane plant life within a range determined by the power of the arcane spell:
At Will: 5 squares
Encounter: 10 squares
Daily: 20 squares
This destruction does not normally affect creatures or terrain, though defiled squares within half the list range (2 squares for at will, 5 for encounter, 10 for Daily) might become defiled terrain (described in the Dark Sun Creature Catalog) at the Dungeon Master’s discretion. You are considered to be preserving unless you choose to defile. If you have access to arcane attack powers, you gain the arcane defiling feature.
Arcane Defiling
You draw upon the vitality of nearby lift to fuel your magic, heedless of the harm you cause to the land and your allies.
At-Will + Arcane, Necrotic
Free Action Personal
Effect: see below
At Will Powers
Trigger: You make an attack roll or a damage roll as part of an at-will power with the arcane keyword.
You can reroll the triggering roll but must use the second result. In addition, each creature (friend or foe, willing or unwilling) within 20 squares of you takes necrotic damage equal to half his or her healing surge value. This damage ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in any way.
Encounter Powers
Effect: Before you use the power, decide if you wish to defile. If you do, select one of the following boons
• +2 to the attack roll
• +2d6 damage
• Gain an Action Point
• Make a second, basic attack against the same or different target.
Special; Cost of Defiling: Each creature (friend or foe, willing or unwilling) within 20 squares of you takes necrotic damage equal to their full healing surge value. This damage ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in any way. Additionally, each target makes a save throw. Failure indicates they are dazed until the start of the defilers next turn. Minions take no damage, but are dazed automatically.
Daily Power
Effect: Before you use the power, decide if you wish to defile. If you do, select one of the following boons
• +1d6 to the attack roll
• +3d6 damage
• Target is dazed, slowed, immobilized or weakened (defilers choice) until the start of their next turn (in addition to normal damage/effects of the power, effects do not stack)
• Gain an Action Point
• Make a second, basic attack against the same or different target.
• Defiler heals his healing surge value at no cost of a healing surge
Special; Cost of Defiling: Each creature (friend or foe, willing or unwilling) within 20 squares of you takes necrotic damage equal to their full healing surge value and are weakened and slowed (save ends). This damage ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in any way. Minions take no damage, and are weakened automatically. Use of a Daily Defiling Power almost always created defiled terrain.
When you use any arcane power, you can choose to defile, destroying mundane plant life within at least 1 square of you for at-wills. When you use an encounter power, the damage to the world extends out a number of squares equal to half the level of the power you use. When you use a daily arcane attack power, the damage extends out a number of squares equal to the level of the power.
This destruction does not normally affect creatures or terrain, though defiled squares might become defiled terrain (described in the Dark Sun Creature Catalog) at the Dungeon Master’s discretion. You are considered to be preserving unless you choose to defile. Arcane spell casters have access to the Arcane Defiling feature.
Arcane Defiling Arcane Feature
You draw upon the vitality of nearby lift to fuel your magic, heedless of the harm you cause to the land and your allies.
At-Will + Arcane, Necrotic
Free Action Personal
Trigger: You make an attack roll or a damage roll as part of an arcane attack power.
Effect: You can reroll the triggering roll but must use the second result. In addition, each ally (willing or unwilling) within 20 squares of you takes necrotic damage equal to half his or her healing surge value. This damage ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in any way.
For Encounter powers, gain a +2d6 damage per tier. In addition, each ally (willing or unwilling) within 20 squares of you takes necrotic damage equal to half his or her healing surge value and is dazed (save ends). This damage ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in any way.
For Daily Powers, gain a +2d8 damage per tier. In addition, each ally (willing or unwilling) within 20 squares of you takes necrotic damage equal to his or her FULL healing surge value and is weakened and slowed (save ends both). This damage ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in any way.
Using a daily defiling power almost always creates defiled terrain.
Optional: You can have defiling affect monsters and enemies as well. They take damage equal to ½ the surge value of the defiler (or full surge value in the case of dailies). Minions do not take damage from these effects, but are dazed or weakened as normal.
Seems really over powered with little in the way of penalties.
It may be. Remember, the defiler has to choose one of those boons, they don't all apply, heh, heh.
But seriously, it may be. I want the "power" of defling to be tempting. It has to be worth abusing to use it.
Check out the simplified version I presented in post 10 and let me know what you think of that one.
Seems really over powered with little in the way of penalties.
It may be. Remember, the defiler has to choose one of those boons, they don't all apply, heh, heh.
But seriously, it may be. I want the "power" of defling to be tempting. It has to be worth abusing to use it.
Check out the simplified version I presented in post 10 and let me know what you think of that one.
I am old school. Defiling magic was originally the default for casters. Furthermore, animal life was only originally affected by the most powerful of defilers and when it drew it's power it did so indiscriminately. I like it but it just doesn't fit (for me) with what I came to know. It is definately your rule to change. I, like you, want it to be alluring but not overly powerful. In Epic this becomes less of a concern for me.
Seems really over powered with little in the way of penalties.
It may be. Remember, the defiler has to choose one of those boons, they don't all apply, heh, heh.
But seriously, it may be. I want the "power" of defling to be tempting. It has to be worth abusing to use it.
Check out the simplified version I presented in post 10 and let me know what you think of that one.
I am old school. Defiling magic was originally the default for casters. Furthermore, animal life was only originally affected by the most powerful of defilers and when it drew it's power it did so indiscriminately. I like it but it just doesn't fit (for me) with what I came to know. It is definately your rule to change. I, like you, want it to be alluring but not overly powerful. In Epic this becomes less of a concern for me.
I know where your comin' from. Let me run this by ya, in regards to the "simplified version" I posted, does the bonus damage seem too power (for the encounters and dailies). I'm already thinking I'll lower those to 1d6 and 1d8 per tier (the real boon is getting to re-roll the attack or damage), the bonuse damage is just a boon.
Well, I definatley think the bonus to damage is too high. Furthermore, I think even 1d6/1d8 is too high unless some significant drawbacks are built in. I also feel that allies and enemies should potentially suffer the effects of defiling... although my personal opinion is that not just any defiler should be able to draw from anima life. As a result of non allies feeling these affects, I think a tone down in damage could be rationalized.
You don't want to make a preserver obsolete.
Nix out the damage to those in the defiled area and make it a penalty to checks made by all until the defiler's next turn as posted above, again based on whether it is an at-will, encounter, or daily and the tier of the caster.
Review whatever choice you make and do a mock skirmish between half a dozen defilers, 3 on a side. Don't simply eyeball the rule but test it out pre-game.
Well, I definatley think the bonus to damage is too high. Furthermore, I think even 1d6/1d8 is too high unless some significant drawbacks are built in. I also feel that allies and enemies should potentially suffer the effects of defiling... although my personal opinion is that not just any defiler should be able to draw from anima life. As a result of non allies feeling these affects, I think a tone down in damage could be rationalized.
You don't want to make a preserver obsolete.
Oh, no not at all...do not want to make preservers obsolete at all. With those thoughts in mind, I'd probably lower the damage to maybe + 1/2 level and have it affect enemies as well.
Also, considering this...
for Encounters and Dailies, the additional effects are optional. Depends on how much power you want to pull from the environment. Write up would look like this...
Arcane Defiling Arcane Feature
You draw upon the vitality of nearby lift to fuel your magic, heedless of the harm you cause to the land and your allies.
At-Will + Arcane, Necrotic
Free Action Personal
Trigger: You make an attack roll or a damage roll as part of an arcane at-will, encounter or daily attack power.
Effect: You can reroll the triggering roll but must use the second result. In addition, each target (friend or foe, willing or unwilling) within 20 squares of you takes necrotic damage equal to half his healing surge value (or half the surge value of the defiler for monsters). This damage ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in any way. Minions do not take damage from this effect, but are slowed (save ends).
Special: The defiler can elect to do cause additional effects to targets in the radius, depending on how much power his wishes to drain from the land (how much defiling he wishes to do). Doing so is a taxing experience for the defiler and leaves him dazed until the end of his next turn. Note the following two options for encounter and dailies powers the defilier can elect to use, but is not required to use.
For Encounter powers: The defilier can add 1/2 his level in additional damage to the attack. In addition, each target in the radius takes necrotic damage equal to half his or her healing surge value (half the surge value of the defiler for monstes and is dazed (save ends). This damage ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in any way. Minions do not take damage from this effect, but are dazed (save ends).
For Daily Powers: The defilier can add 1/2 his level in additional damage to the attack. In addition, each ally (willing or unwilling) within 20 squares of you takes necrotic damage equal to his or her FULL healing surge value (the full surge value of the defiler for monsters) and is weakened and slowed (save ends both). This damage ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in any way. Minions do not take damage from this effect, but are weakend and slowed (save ends). Using a daily defiling power almost always creates defiled terrain.
^ This feels much more balanced than what was posted. And I like it for what you are trying to accomplish. I will probably not go full on with affecting animals until paragorn level at least.
Thanks, glad you like, though Mach4 does have a good point in playtesting it. I added a dazed effect to the defiler as well, to help keep him "in check".
Looking forward to play testing this and seeing where elese this topic may go. A lot of cool ideas out there for defiling. Just want to make sure it stays defiling and doesn't cross the border into "wild magic". Trying to go for flavor, but remain somewhat mechanics lite.
What were your thoughts on the feat for judicious defiling?
Also, a big concern is by empowering the defiler it could break the preserver.
Perhaps:
- Defiling is the default action for arcane spell casters (excluding warlocks who derive thier energy from thier pact)
- Each creature targeted by a spell empowered with defiling magic takes a -2 penatly to any required saving throw rolls.
- +1 damage modifier for each die of damage per tier, i.e. +2 at paragorn and +3 at epic.
- At heroic levels, defiling only affects the local plantlife. Burst 1 for every 3 levels of the spell, rounding down. All plantlife in this area is turned to ash. (If anyone has any suggestions on how this may affect terrain, please share. Terrain affects ally's and enemies alike).
- Anyone within sight of the burst radius may roll a perception check +1/spell level to identify the caster as a defiler.
- Anyone taking the Master Defiler PP or the Dragon King ED WILL (not a choice) also affect animal life in the burst. Levels 11-20: All creatures within the zone must make a save or become weakened. Levels 21-30: All creatures within the zone must save or become weakened and slowed. (Note: anyone taking either of these paths can no longer choose to preserve).
- Anyone caught defiling not under the SK protection will be hunted by local officials.
- Those defiling will find it more and more difficult to resist the temptation. Marks for defiling will be gained for each spell (as written by Tyrantlobe) cast with defiling magic. For each mark there is a 10% chance any additional spells cast will result in defiling (with the normal afore mentioned rules)
- Marks may only be removed after an extended rest and an Arcana + mark count check.
- Any defiler with a mark count over 2 receives a -2 to saves vs. Primal magic and a -2 to all Diplomacy checks. The modifier to saves vs. Primal magic becomes -3 for Master Defilers and -4 for Dragon Kings.
- Pyreen and Avangion alike are immune to the effects of defiling. Anyone within the aura of the Avangion is also immune.
To add to this:
Feat: Judicious Defiling
Prerequisite: Master Defiler, Dragon King
Description: Any allies within the defiling burst can roll twice for the save and take the higher result.
You know, I like the flavor behind it. Thing is, without defiling hurting anything in the heroic tier, when that aspect of it does finally come into play, you have a feat there that makes that part of deilfing less "scary". Maybe just drop the -2 to save (instead of rolling two dice? Or does that average out about the same?).
Maybe make a prereq something around level 13 or 14, so there are a few levels have having to deal with the threat, straight up, before the master defiler or dragon king learn to control it?