Does anyone have the 2e book, Mind Lords of the Last Sea? I'd appreciate any info about the Order and the area they inhabit. Lastly, does the Last Sea have any real bearing in the 4e DS setting or is it irrelevant and nonexistant?
Does this info supplant the 2e Mind Lords? So instead of a paradise-like "Lost World", the Mind Lords just live in some run-down palace in the Dragon's Crown? Personally, I think the Lost Sea locale is silly, but I did like the idea that there is a city ruled by ruthless Mind Lords who utilize obsidian orbs as repositories for their minds/souls and as Guardians to repel intruders.
Okay, upon a reread of Chapter 5 of the DSCS, I finally found reference to the Mind Lords in The Western Hinterlands section. Apparently, they are situated in Dasaraches, a fortress within the "sheltering bowl of the Dragon's Crown". The section goes on to say that the Order takes residence there.
Does this info supplant the 2e Mind Lords? So instead of a paradise-like "Lost World", the Mind Lords just live in some run-down palace in the Dragon's Crown? Personally, I think the Lost Sea locale is silly, but I did like the idea that there is a city ruled by ruthless Mind Lords who utilize obsidian orbs as repositories for their minds/souls and as Guardians to repel intruders.
...I'm reposting Post #4:
2e had people called Mind Lords, leaders of the city on the shores of the Last Sea. 4e has taken over the term to describe members of the Order, renaming them...Mind Lords.
For whatever reason they just decided to call the Order epic destiny "mind lords."
There's no connection between the Mind Lords of the Last Sea (bodiless and psychotic mental tyrants and thought police) and the leaders of the Order. Except the name, now.
Dasaraches has been the headquarters of the Order since the dragon's crown epic adventure in 2e. It's not some sudden replacement for the Last Sea (and in fact predates it concept-wise).
For whatever reason they just decided to call the Order epic destiny "mind lords."
There's no connection between the Mind Lords of the Last Sea (bodiless and psychotic mental tyrants and thought police) and the leaders of the Order. Except the name, now.
So Dasaraches and Saragar (the city in the Last Sea area) are completely unrelated? That actually makes me feel better, as my character's background involves being one of the Guardians of the Last Sea who escape her obsidian prison and switched minds with a passing wanderer. Of course, her memories would be greatly dimiinished, saving the DM from using Saragar.
IIRC Dasaraches was not the headquarter of the Order either, but a placement for the Psionatrix device. I'm not even sure the Order had/has headquarters, or should have any.
I'd imagine if the Order had any sort of headquarters it would be a place in the mindscape and not a physical location but a cerebral one.
I actually like this idea. A meeting place in the "astral plane" (mindscape) or someone else's mind would be very cool. Some kind of schedule could be kept in who would be hosting the next meeting, etc, thus maintaining a level of security.
Btw, what were/are the goals of these Mind Lords? From the bits I've read online, I get the impression that they want a return to a Green Age Athas.
The members of the Order (now in 4e renamed Mind Lords of the Order) want to maintain purity of psionics in all things high level (i.e. where it matters). Epic tier characters and NPCs are forced to join the Order or hunted down.
Meeting in the Astral Sea, or projecting your soul there, would work very well, as non-Epic Tier characters would probably find it impossible to cross the Gray's barrier, insuring secure communication with only the possibility of eavesdroping from the Sorcerer-Kings (and they know the Order leaves them and their affairs alone) or anomalous independent Epic entities, like the PCs.
A lot of the northern parts of Athas are "off the map" in the 4th ed DSCG. That doesn't mean they don't exist, but they are not detailed in that book. There is a reference (maybe in the writup of the Kings Road area) to a couple of more cities that exist far to the north, but it says that they are borderline legendary. Perhaps they will be detailed in later products, but for now its basically DM fiat.
Thus I suspect we'll get write-ups in DDI. Plus, for the first time since 4e was out, they are printing new Forgotten Realms material (despite having said only 3 books for each setting would ever be printed), so maybe they'll print new Dark Sun material later on.
The members of the Order (now in 4e renamed Mind Lords of the Order) want to maintain purity of psionics in all things high level (i.e. where it matters). Epic tier characters and NPCs are forced to join the Order or hunted down.
Any more information about them than that? They're like the primal classes protecting the spirit world, except they're psionic classes making sure...psionics doesn't, what? Get a bad rep like arcane magic does? Making sure it's not abused and whatnot?
Abused. Corrupted. Just imagine Tibetan monks hunting down those who use their meditation techniques to do anything else than meditate all day. Order members consider psionic a goal unto itself, not as a tool for gain - either for good or evil.
Generally an organisation of arrogant psychos who, in their quest for achieving perfect psionic harmony, believe that anyone meeting the following two criteria must be removed from existence:
A) Powerful psionicist
B) Does not share their beliefs
Note: If you're a powerful psionicist who refuses to join them, don't belabour the point that they've never acted against any of the SK's. In my experience, it makes them very angry.
They (the order) also have a headquarters in a place called Nexus that's quite a ways north of the Tablelands, run by a dwarf. It comes off as more of a monastery and training ground, though it's probably the closest thing we have to an HQ so far (other than Dasaraches).
Nexus is a psionic school that happens to be ran by a member of the Order known as Gulum the Gray. Its not solely occupied by Order members.
However, considering Athas' history, one would think the Order has been around since the Green Age. A super secret(tm) club of psions seems inevitable in an age fueled by psionics. Then again, if they've really been around so long, you'd think they'd have their own dedicated meeting places as opposed to mooching the secret sites of long-dead preserver cabals.
Dasaraches has been the headquarters of the Order since the dragon's crown epic adventure in 2e. It's not some sudden replacement for the Last Sea (and in fact predates it concept-wise).
For whatever reason they just decided to call the Order epic destiny "mind lords."
There's no connection between the Mind Lords of the Last Sea (bodiless and psychotic mental tyrants and thought police) and the leaders of the Order. Except the name, now.
So Dasaraches and Saragar (the city in the Last Sea area) are completely unrelated? That actually makes me feel better, as my character's background involves being one of the Guardians of the Last Sea who escape her obsidian prison and switched minds with a passing wanderer. Of course, her memories would be greatly dimiinished, saving the DM from using Saragar.IIRC Dasaraches was not the headquarter of the Order either, but a placement for the Psionatrix device. I'm not even sure the Order had/has headquarters, or should have any.I'd imagine if the Order had any sort of headquarters it would be a place in the mindscape and not a physical location but a cerebral one.
I actually like this idea. A meeting place in the "astral plane" (mindscape) or someone else's mind would be very cool. Some kind of schedule could be kept in who would be hosting the next meeting, etc, thus maintaining a level of security.
Btw, what were/are the goals of these Mind Lords? From the bits I've read online, I get the impression that they want a return to a Green Age Athas.
I am pretty sure "mind lord" is just a name for a powerful psion, similar to "archmange". As has been mentioned, the Order and the mind lords of Saragar have nothing to do with each other. I doubt the Order even knows Saragar exists, and the mind lords in Saragar are so insane I doubt they know anything about what exists outside of their domain.
The mind lords aren't so much interested in returning Athas to the Green Age as they are with preserving their domain and their people from all threats (real and imagined), whether the people like it or not.
If you want a good idea what Saragar is like, watch the old movie "Logan's Run."
Also, "mind lord" has absolutely no connection to being in an obsidian orb. It's a title of the 3 in Saragar, yes, but their state is unique: the whole "put your mind in an obsidian orb" thing was a form of punishment, and the fact that the three chose to do so willingly (for immortality reasons) would have been viewed as a bit of a perversion if anyone else knew about it.
Oh, I already know this. When I said my character was trapped in a Guardian orb, I meant she was one of many imprisoned within obsidian orbs, used as part of the Guardian security network. I've already written a background around this. I'll post it below, see what you guys think of it.
Solusandra
After reorienting herself, Solusandra journeyed south, following a memory trail left by the ones who sacrificed their lives to free her. Eventually, she met and joined a caravan heading to Raam, a place she found to be rich in psionic energy. Like a thirsty man drawn to water, so was Solusandra drawn to Psiumarkh, the greatest repository for psionic lore among the city-states. Upon her arrival at the prestigious academy, she was immediately thrust into political feuds and rivalry between masters of the Way and the nawab clan nobles. She enrolled in a work-study program and sought apprenticeship, pretending to be unremarkable while adapting to the current age. Her prodigious talents and unique ideas eventually drew the attention and patronage of the minor nawab clan [Askani] looking to increase its standing.
“You can chain me, you can torture me, you can even destroy my body, but you will never imprison my mind.” —The Mahatma
Solusandra is a woman lost in time. Born in an age of peace and abundance, she was a revolutionary among the great thinkers of her time. Known for her sharp wit and even sharper tongue, Solusandra sought to rekindle passion within her people, a trait her peers thought irrelevant and discarded in their pursuit of psionic perfection. Then the Cleansing Wars descended upon the land, and it was during this time that three powerful Mind Lords rose to prominence and eventual leadership. Foreseeing the devastation that the war will bring, they founded the city Saragar, completely hiding it and the Last Sea from the rest of the world.
Solusandra was among the minority who opposed the three Mind Lords’ tyrannical agenda. When her ideas threatened to upset their plans, she was arrested and disposed of secretly. In truth, the Mind Lords subjected her and all other insurgents and criminals to experimental rituals, prototypes to what they would later use to achieve immortality. The procedure ripped the minds from their bodies and imprisoned them within flawless obsidian orbs. These orbs were then placed in defensive outposts surrounding the Last Sea Region, each orb programmed and telepathically bound to the other to form an impenetrable security network. The extraction process cost Solusandra her sanity, and the time spent in the orb produced an unbearable ennui that deteriorated what remained of her brilliant mind.
Millennia passed before the opportunity for her escape literally dropped in front of her. It was a human woman, barely alive, with a child clutched to her side. A sandstorm separated them from their caravan, and they were wandering for days, lost. As they neared the outpost, a blanket of crackling energy descended upon the intruders, burning their flesh and bombarding their sensory receptors with unimaginable pain. The child expired immediately, having no strength to withstand the Guardians’ attack. The mother’s anguish coupled with the pain of the Guardian’s assault unleashed her latent psychic abilities, allowing the woman to physically assault the orb. Flares jumped across synapses and crystalline matrices upon contact, fusing the woman and orb together as psionic energy built in intensity. When it reached critical mass, instead of exploding outwards, the energy imploded, creating an embryonic being of pure psionic energy. The shock restored Solusandra to full waking consciousness and sanity, upon which she quickly built herself a new body. Solusandra has achieved the very thing the Mind Lords desperately sought. She has Transitioned, she has become elan. But even with a perfect immortal body to house her soul, her mind still felt disconnected. With the remainder of the psionic energy stores, she fashioned a Waystone, a psionic anchor to ground, center and focus her mind.
After reorienting herself, Solusandra journeyed south, following a memory trail left by the ones who sacrificed their lives to free her. Eventually, she met and joined a caravan heading to Raam, a place she found to be rich in psionic energy. Like a thirsty man drawn to water, so was Solusandra drawn to Psiumarkh, the greatest repository for psionic lore among the city-states. Upon her arrival at the prestigious academy, she was immediately thrust into political feuds and rivalry between masters of the Way and the nawab clan nobles. She enrolled in a work-study program and sought apprenticeship, pretending to be unremarkable while adapting to the current age. Her prodigious talents and unique ideas eventually drew the attention and patronage of the minor nawab clan [Askani] looking to increase its standing.
I'm not sure if it was mentioned yet, but could the shard minds be used fot the mind lords? Being placed into obsidian bodies rather than orbs?
It's totally feasible but I recently found out they maintain the illusion of being immortal, human-like beings that the Saragarans almost worship as deities. While their minds/souls are in the obsidian orbs they keep in a vault under their palace, they "astrally" project themselves as a very believable illusion. They also use telekinesis to manipulate physical objects, further enhancing the illusion that they are real. So using shardminds would sort of break the illusion.
However, the Saragarans might view the shardmind bodies as avatars or "divine" servants of the Mind Lords, or the Lords could just possess various shardmind empty vessels pretending to be different beings altogether. If I were running the game, I'd totally use shardminds as the "thought police" of Saragar, having them pose as statues everywhere in the city with the Mind Lords and their "neo-cymeks" watching everyone through the shardmind eyes. Imagine yourself walking the streets of Saragar and a shardmind statue's eyes follows you. It is creeeeeeeeeeepy. xD
In the first session of our game, I asked the DM if my "B" character (benched back-up waiting nearby) could be my primary character just using a shardmind empty vessel. I basically explained that when my elan psion is downed, he would project her consciousness to the shardmind body that was actually made from the obsidian Guardian orb she was trapped in for millennia. While he liked the idea, he shot it down quick. No shardminds or any other constructs allowed in Dark Sun. I understood why he said no though, as living constructs would have an edge over any other PCs in Dark Sun, regardless of house-rules.