Need advice for running DarkSun - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Need advice for running DarkSun

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
nowiwantmydmg
Dec 29, 2008 11:11:26 A long, long time ago I had a DM who ran us through a short series of adventures in the old (2e) DarkSun campaign setting. To make the story short the DM quickly moved on (it wasn't his cup of tea), but I fell in love with the setting completely.

I recently received the old campaign setting for 2e and plan to convert it to 4e, my players are intriqued by the setting so all is good to go on that front.

My problem is that I am not sure what sort of scope to run the adventures/campaign at. Deposing a sorcerer-king or survival based encounters are all well and good, but obviously can't be the whole picture.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
#2
vforge
Jan 06, 2009 19:48:16 Hey. Darksun was a really brutal world wasn't it. I know it might have been a lot easier to run in first edition than any of the others. Yep i know it came later but I never liked 3 / 3.5 / ... I seem to like 4 but i see flaws. After Second edition the rules allowed the rules lawyers to tighten the grip on DM's a bit too much. Dark sun is a very, very brutal place. Personally I think it's a reality that only seasoned players should be allowed to adventure in. If not they will either end up dead or the DM will be spoon feeding them. First of all. Gold does not glimmer as bright there. The name of the game is survival. I know this is a Lot of personal opinion but that's just me. I reserved the Darksun world for the BIG earthshaking game finishing campaign where the characters ended up last and fought the dragon / god king and then retired after saving the world. I know it was a complete world but the parts I used fell in really good with what i needed from it. I still use elements of the realm in other games. I was also surprised to see mention of the return of spelljammer.
#3
phaaf_glien
Jan 08, 2009 5:30:11 you got some players ready to go to DS huh?

well, some first advice.

if they are newbies, don't tell them anything about DS. don't talk to them about SKs, dragons, etc. Remember, in the PP, Tithian didn't even believe in the Dragon in the first book, and neither did a lot of the other characters. let your players discover any secrets on their own; and honestly, even in play, they should discover almost none of the secrets of Athas.

as you have the boxed set, i'm sure you realize the campaign was designed for 2nd edition. i'm not too familiar with 4th edition. personally, i advise sticking with 2nd edition for DS, but if you go 4th edition, trying sticking as close to the rules from 2nd edition as possible, and translate things directly from there. otherwise, you risk having your self trip over rules, and that's no fun.

definitely, i read what you are saying, that the whole campaign can't be about dragon kings and survival. that's no way to run a campaign. at the same time, the usual send 'em to a dungeon routine doesn't work as well in Dark Sun.

i don't want to prattle on, but my best guess is come up with a really enthralling story, and an in depth one, at that. give the PCs a story arc that does not involve the fate of Athas, and do not start them off with something overdone like guarding a caravan.

come up with your own cool story arc. here's some examples:

-a thief is trying to round up all crime in one city-state under his jurisdiction, like a crime syndicate. have him or one of his assassins kill a PC family member at the beginning, and get a hook.

-if your PCs are good guys (preserver oriented), perhaps the druids are having a great council in a year or two, a big moot where they can plan, and the PCs are assigned, not really knowing what they are doing, to checking security. a high ranking druid will send the PCs to do this and that to make sure invited guests are good to go there, and won't compromise this very important meeting of druids and preservers to the templars and their sorcerer-kings.

etc.

Dungeons are good though. For non DS, I almost always start my PCs off in a dungeon. They can get some xps and get into the swing of things that way. If it doesn't feel right to start with a dungeon, then maybe just make sure they look into the tombs of the ancients and stuff down the line.

make sure your players have the proper range of character classes. my advice is don't allow, for beginners especially, the weird things like DS necromancers who draw power from the black, cerulean wizards, and other oddities. it could screw your game up in the long run. use stuff closest to what the first box set offers.

start the game before the death of Kalak, when all seven monarchs are still alive.

love to go on more, but that's good for now.

happy darksunning
#4
Kynesis
Jan 10, 2009 23:41:15 Start simple & close to home.

DarkSun has tons of cool features, it has buckets of creativity and mountains of options.
Don't use them.
(yet)

I'd recommend working on setting the scene, spend time getting your players into the feel of the setting rather than experimenting with diversity.
Look at what exactly it is that makes Athas awesome to you.

Jumping in feet first can quickly overload people, it's a very different setting and you'll find that despite best intentions people think and mentally picture things as they're used to - ie: you might describe the gates of Urik while the'yre mentally picturing a medievil castle with lion statues... and sand.. on a hot day... and guards in chainmail with swords & horses tromping the bridge over a moat.

Ideally I'd suggest exploring themes and characters - each of the base classes & races on Athas is distinct from other worlds, each city, the people and their interests, habits, hopes & fears are all very different from those of other worlds.

There are alot of basic concepts to cover - when I first ran DarkSun for my friends I think my first words were (approx) "Forget everything you know, it's wrong" - most everything you'd take for granted in a typical dnd game is either different or drastically different.

If they're pretty good at role-playing, I'd get one of them to DM a short session after a few weeks, just winging something very simple & bookless - you'll quickly understand how they see the game (try to refer to the rules as little as possible, you know the rules, you want to find out how much they've absorbed or resisted).

If I were going to run one for a new group now - I'd base it on Cluedo or the swindling of a card game.
A moderately small cast of characters interested in one-another & looking for clues to work out something of immediate interest to them with a relatively small area - no need to cross deserts to find the murder weapon.

The merchant houses, various trade interests & nobility are rife with intrigue.

You'll (hopefully) be surprised by the many cultural features of even a single city that give it real depth; a great way of getting people to focus on details they'd otherwise never pay attention to.

Other than that, ask (specific) questions outside of the actual games of the players, feedback about how they see the world & how they're fitting in is critical.

Converting the setting to 4e is a big ask, you'll end up in all-sorts because you'll find absolutely everything needs to be converted and much of it will be complicated or require alot of re-thinking.
If you've got 2e or 3e already just stick with it, they'll be more than adequate.
#5
vforge
Jan 14, 2009 20:57:45 What they said.
#6
cnahumck
Jan 16, 2009 21:09:52 My advice is similar to the others here. Keep it simple at first. Make sure there is a reason for them to be together. That helps in the long run. Also, keep it very low key. Start with the harsh survival.

One thing I have done is this: I start the PC's as herders, grouped as part of a tribe of mixed race (not necessary, but it was what was necessary given the races to be played.) The first few encounters were to set the stage for the harshness of Athas. Plants that kill part of the herd; Predators attack at night; Sandstorm takes them; the oasis is out of water; etc. Harsh, Harsh, Harsh. Kill a PC or three in the first few sessions, just to drive the point home.

Then, after having this experience, they are "picked" to take part of the herd to market to sell for supplies. This is their first time going to the big city, and they are excited. Along the way, they are attacked by raiders who enslave them and sell them in the city that they were traveling to. They experience the harshness of slavery for a while, maybe kill a PC or three in the arena. Eventually, they are purchased by their former tribe, or a noble or templar, or they escape or win their freedom, and a new phase begins.

Really, it is all about expanding their world. Which, in the end, is absolutely no different than any other setting. It's just that the theme of this one is brutal unforgiving death in the sand. Other worlds are easier as you gain influence and your world gets bigger. Athas is harsher and harsher, until you can kill the Dragon, destroy Dregoth, crush the SK's, annihilate the Kreen Empire, and smite the Deadlands. Of course, as a DM, if your players can do this, you have done a bad job, IMO.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 nowiwantmydmg Dec 29, 2008 11:11:26	A long, long time ago I had a DM who ran us through a short series of adventures in the old (2e) DarkSun campaign setting. To make the story short the DM quickly moved on (it wasn't his cup of tea), but I fell in love with the setting completely. I recently received the old campaign setting for 2e and plan to convert it to 4e, my players are intriqued by the setting so all is good to go on that front. My problem is that I am not sure what sort of scope to run the adventures/campaign at. Deposing a sorcerer-king or survival based encounters are all well and good, but obviously can't be the whole picture. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
#2 vforge Jan 06, 2009 19:48:16	Hey. Darksun was a really brutal world wasn't it. I know it might have been a lot easier to run in first edition than any of the others. Yep i know it came later but I never liked 3 / 3.5 / ... I seem to like 4 but i see flaws. After Second edition the rules allowed the rules lawyers to tighten the grip on DM's a bit too much. Dark sun is a very, very brutal place. Personally I think it's a reality that only seasoned players should be allowed to adventure in. If not they will either end up dead or the DM will be spoon feeding them. First of all. Gold does not glimmer as bright there. The name of the game is survival. I know this is a Lot of personal opinion but that's just me. I reserved the Darksun world for the BIG earthshaking game finishing campaign where the characters ended up last and fought the dragon / god king and then retired after saving the world. I know it was a complete world but the parts I used fell in really good with what i needed from it. I still use elements of the realm in other games. I was also surprised to see mention of the return of spelljammer.
#3 phaaf_glien Jan 08, 2009 5:30:11	you got some players ready to go to DS huh? well, some first advice. if they are newbies, don't tell them anything about DS. don't talk to them about SKs, dragons, etc. Remember, in the PP, Tithian didn't even believe in the Dragon in the first book, and neither did a lot of the other characters. let your players discover any secrets on their own; and honestly, even in play, they should discover almost none of the secrets of Athas. as you have the boxed set, i'm sure you realize the campaign was designed for 2nd edition. i'm not too familiar with 4th edition. personally, i advise sticking with 2nd edition for DS, but if you go 4th edition, trying sticking as close to the rules from 2nd edition as possible, and translate things directly from there. otherwise, you risk having your self trip over rules, and that's no fun. definitely, i read what you are saying, that the whole campaign can't be about dragon kings and survival. that's no way to run a campaign. at the same time, the usual send 'em to a dungeon routine doesn't work as well in Dark Sun. i don't want to prattle on, but my best guess is come up with a really enthralling story, and an in depth one, at that. give the PCs a story arc that does not involve the fate of Athas, and do not start them off with something overdone like guarding a caravan. come up with your own cool story arc. here's some examples: -a thief is trying to round up all crime in one city-state under his jurisdiction, like a crime syndicate. have him or one of his assassins kill a PC family member at the beginning, and get a hook. -if your PCs are good guys (preserver oriented), perhaps the druids are having a great council in a year or two, a big moot where they can plan, and the PCs are assigned, not really knowing what they are doing, to checking security. a high ranking druid will send the PCs to do this and that to make sure invited guests are good to go there, and won't compromise this very important meeting of druids and preservers to the templars and their sorcerer-kings. etc. Dungeons are good though. For non DS, I almost always start my PCs off in a dungeon. They can get some xps and get into the swing of things that way. If it doesn't feel right to start with a dungeon, then maybe just make sure they look into the tombs of the ancients and stuff down the line. make sure your players have the proper range of character classes. my advice is don't allow, for beginners especially, the weird things like DS necromancers who draw power from the black, cerulean wizards, and other oddities. it could screw your game up in the long run. use stuff closest to what the first box set offers. start the game before the death of Kalak, when all seven monarchs are still alive. love to go on more, but that's good for now. happy darksunning
#4 Kynesis Jan 10, 2009 23:41:15	Start simple & close to home. DarkSun has tons of cool features, it has buckets of creativity and mountains of options. Don't use them. (yet) I'd recommend working on setting the scene, spend time getting your players into the feel of the setting rather than experimenting with diversity. Look at what exactly it is that makes Athas awesome to you. Jumping in feet first can quickly overload people, it's a very different setting and you'll find that despite best intentions people think and mentally picture things as they're used to - ie: you might describe the gates of Urik while the'yre mentally picturing a medievil castle with lion statues... and sand.. on a hot day... and guards in chainmail with swords & horses tromping the bridge over a moat. Ideally I'd suggest exploring themes and characters - each of the base classes & races on Athas is distinct from other worlds, each city, the people and their interests, habits, hopes & fears are all very different from those of other worlds. There are alot of basic concepts to cover - when I first ran DarkSun for my friends I think my first words were (approx) "Forget everything you know, it's wrong" - most everything you'd take for granted in a typical dnd game is either different or drastically different. If they're pretty good at role-playing, I'd get one of them to DM a short session after a few weeks, just winging something very simple & bookless - you'll quickly understand how they see the game (try to refer to the rules as little as possible, you know the rules, you want to find out how much they've absorbed or resisted). If I were going to run one for a new group now - I'd base it on Cluedo or the swindling of a card game. A moderately small cast of characters interested in one-another & looking for clues to work out something of immediate interest to them with a relatively small area - no need to cross deserts to find the murder weapon. The merchant houses, various trade interests & nobility are rife with intrigue. You'll (hopefully) be surprised by the many cultural features of even a single city that give it real depth; a great way of getting people to focus on details they'd otherwise never pay attention to. Other than that, ask (specific) questions outside of the actual games of the players, feedback about how they see the world & how they're fitting in is critical. Converting the setting to 4e is a big ask, you'll end up in all-sorts because you'll find absolutely everything needs to be converted and much of it will be complicated or require alot of re-thinking. If you've got 2e or 3e already just stick with it, they'll be more than adequate.
#5 vforge Jan 14, 2009 20:57:45	What they said.
#6 cnahumck Jan 16, 2009 21:09:52	My advice is similar to the others here. Keep it simple at first. Make sure there is a reason for them to be together. That helps in the long run. Also, keep it very low key. Start with the harsh survival. One thing I have done is this: I start the PC's as herders, grouped as part of a tribe of mixed race (not necessary, but it was what was necessary given the races to be played.) The first few encounters were to set the stage for the harshness of Athas. Plants that kill part of the herd; Predators attack at night; Sandstorm takes them; the oasis is out of water; etc. Harsh, Harsh, Harsh. Kill a PC or three in the first few sessions, just to drive the point home. Then, after having this experience, they are "picked" to take part of the herd to market to sell for supplies. This is their first time going to the big city, and they are excited. Along the way, they are attacked by raiders who enslave them and sell them in the city that they were traveling to. They experience the harshness of slavery for a while, maybe kill a PC or three in the arena. Eventually, they are purchased by their former tribe, or a noble or templar, or they escape or win their freedom, and a new phase begins. Really, it is all about expanding their world. Which, in the end, is absolutely no different than any other setting. It's just that the theme of this one is brutal unforgiving death in the sand. Other worlds are easier as you gain influence and your world gets bigger. Athas is harsher and harsher, until you can kill the Dragon, destroy Dregoth, crush the SK's, annihilate the Kreen Empire, and smite the Deadlands. Of course, as a DM, if your players can do this, you have done a bad job, IMO.