[New Monster] Sand Devil Master Of Pain

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Duskweaver

Sep 14, 2010 7:56:46
I was going to write a few paragraphs of fluff for him, but I felt a Hellraiser quote would work just as well to set the tone:

"What you think of as pain is only a shadow. Pain has a face. Allow me to show it to you. Gentlemen... I. Am. Pain."


The tiefling speaking in the fluff piece linked in my sig is one of these.

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As usual, clicking on the image will open it at full size.

I realise he has a lot of powers for a heroic-tier monster, but the only one whose uses you need to track is Wave Of Pain, because all the others are either at-will powers or recharge automatically when the Master Of Pain is bloodied. Remember that both his ranged basic powers can target either 1 or 2 creatures and that these should be his 'bread and butter' attacks (as an elite, he's expected to attack twice per round). His melee basic attack is really just to temporarily incapacitate a strong melee enemy so he can get away (and then only if Wave Of Pain hasn't recharged).

As always, comments are welcome.
#2

visanidethdm

Sep 14, 2010 8:52:48
I really like the concept, but balance seems off the hook on this one:

1. Touch of Agony: high damage at will hitting Reflex that basically can permanently incapacitate a target? "You don't get to play" abilities are rarely fun for players, and having this as an at will is probably gonna make them sigh every time you pull out the monster. He has so many different abilities that the problem is mitigated somehow (would be much worse if he spent most of the time using this), but still, very "unfun" imho.

2. Curse of Wracking Spasms: situationally, this could make the players completely hate the fight. I understand fearsome monsters are an important part of the game, but imagine this dude having 6 spread out minions with crossbows shooting people down or sliding people around fundamentally at will. There's a save, so it isn't that bad, but it's incredibly easy to reapply.

3. how does wave of pain interact with curse of wracking spasms? He gets to choose whether to knock them down then slide them or to push them and then knock them down? In any of these scenarios, you basically can make the entire opposing group either lose a turn or incur in massive opportunity attack income.

4. Wrath of Utter Despair... once again, dazed + knocked prone, ie fundamentally out of combat. Twice per combat. On top of a recharge standard aoe and 2 at wills working on similar effects.
Are you sure that a monster that is completely about forbidding players to act is gonna be "enjoyed" by them?

The last bit is the -5 penalty to death saves; it sort of feels like you designed this as a TPK device. Once again - I really like the concept. It's fitting to both DS and Tieflings in general, and it's a good starting base for a powerful elite leader. But my personal opinion is that you went a bit overboard with the abilities. Their effects are too similar, and all aiming at incapacitation - which makes sense, of course. Personally I would be very afraid of using this thing because if I was to use it as a I usually use monsters (by building encounters that make their power shine and giving them allies that they synergize with) I could simply exterminate most parties, unless they made sure the master of pain didn't get to act for more than a couple turns. And a monster you can't really use isn't that fun to use. Put a decent number of ranged minions and some creatures that can mess up knocked prone characters and this guy is a recipe for TPK.
My advice is to:

a. spice him up by putting a little more variety in abilities (he doesn't need 200 knock prone effects)
b. look a bit at his overall power, but point a. would probably take care of that.
#3

Duskweaver

Sep 15, 2010 3:40:07
Controller monsters are pretty tricky to get right. Too much control and they stop the PCs from doing anything. Too little and they aren't capable of doing their 'job' in the encounter. I suspected the Master Of Pain might be a bit too nasty, but I think it's easier to dial back on a too-strong monster than it is to make a lacklustre monster more effective.

OK, I've made some changes.

Some of the dazing and proning is gone. Wrath Of Utter Despair still does it, but it now requires an attack roll rather than being automatic (the damage is still automatic, since it's supposed to 'feel like' a regular tiefling's Infernal Wrath power). I don't think dazing and proning a single PC for a round is too bad as long as it's not an automatic effect.

Touch Of Agony now just stops the target from taking opportunity and immediate actions for a round, so the Master Of Pain can move away. It's only a single-target attack, so the MoP is basically giving up on actually being an elite monster for a turn when he uses it.

Curse Of Wracking Spasms can now only slide a single PC per round (and can no longer knock prone). It uses up the MoP's immediate action, so it can't trigger from the MoP's own attacks and doesn't combine with Wave Of Pain. This actually works better with the MoP being a leader, as he now requires allies to make full use of his controller powers.

Wave Of Pain's blast is smaller, and it only recharges when the MoP is bloodied, rather than on a 5+ (so it can only be used twice per encounter rather than 3-4 times). This and Wrath are now the only powers the MoP has that knock prone (I agree it was a little repetitive before). Knocking prone is a pretty weak effect, though. At worst, the prone PC loses a move action, but most PCs that really value their mobility can usually stand up as a minor action by this level (in my experience, anyway).

Magnify Suffering and Dedicate To Rajaat no longer recharge.

Dedicate To Rajaat now works quite differently and requires an immediate action. If you think it's still too powerful, I suggest you compare it to the Catoblebas Harbinger's aura (MM3 page 27), which I actually do think is too nasty, especially in combination with Final Glance...



So, is this more reasonable, or should I just give up on designing elite controllers?
#4

claytoniantomb

Sep 15, 2010 5:46:50
Better, but too long for an elite. Also too many choices. Just have him push, rather than knock prone.
#5

Duskweaver

Sep 15, 2010 7:56:16
Better, but too long for an elite.


*shrugs* There are plenty of published elite monsters with as many or more powers than him. There are even a handful of standard monsters with as many powers (although they're mostly epic-tier). Remember that none of his powers require the DM to track recharges (which is what, in my experience, causes a monster to feel like it has 'too many' powers).
Also too many choices. Just have him push, rather than knock prone.


There is only one power that gives the DM a choice as to what to do, and I don't think it's too much mental effort to decide between 'push 3' and 'knock prone'.

Complexity is one thing I'm really not concerned about. I've run monsters much more complicated than this one with no problems. As long as his power level and damage output are reasonable and fighting him is fun, interesting and challenging for the players, that's fine by me.
#6

OneWeirdCat

Sep 16, 2010 15:51:57
Hmmmmm, I think the changes you made to this monster make you much less certainly to get you punched in the face as the DM LOL.  It is nasty still, but the balance is improved.  Sure it is complex, but paired with minions or simply monsters, it should be easy enough to run. 
I don't see these guys being more than a once is a game monster.  Isn't that the fun of elites?  The mini-boss that the characters remember kicking the sack off of?  I mean, if you got to deal with one of these sadists, you wouldn't forget it.
#7

Duskweaver

Sep 17, 2010 13:31:42
Isn't that the fun of elites?  The mini-boss that the characters remember kicking the sack off of?  I mean, if you got to deal with one of these sadists, you wouldn't forget it.


That's pretty much the point of him, yes. I've found that an elite monster who doesn't have lots of unusual powers just ends up feeling like a standard monster with more hit points.