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New to Dark Sun

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Phobos
Aug 16, 2010 8:04:19 I will start and admit, I never even heard of DS until this version, and yet I've played for almost 30 years. Obviously it just was not on my, or fellow player's, radar.

However it looked interesting so I picked up the campaign guide, read it. Let my 2 sons read it, and now were converting to DS.

So, that said. Forgive me when I say I started thinking spice worms and pyramids with circular portal devices. I don't mean that in a bad way at all.

What I'm looking for is a summary list of the important changes. I see a fair amount, missing races, etc. I'm trying to take notes from the setting guide, but thought this might be out there already. Also, any particular online places I shoudl read and get to know for important backstory? Not knowing the original, has the setting or story changed in this version??!?

My son who plays a Warforged plans for me to incorporate him into the world as a stone, hardwood and bone "living" construct.
#2
masato
Aug 16, 2010 12:09:57
I will start and admit, I never even heard of DS until this version, and yet I've played for almost 30 years. Obviously it just was not on my, or fellow player's, radar.

However it looked interesting so I picked up the campaign guide, read it. Let my 2 sons read it, and now were converting to DS.

So, that said. Forgive me when I say I started thinking spice worms and pyramids with circular portal devices. I don't mean that in a bad way at all.

What I'm looking for is a summary list of the important changes. I see a fair amount, missing races, etc. I'm trying to take notes from the setting guide, but thought this might be out there already. Also, any particular online places I shoudl read and get to know for important backstory? Not knowing the original, has the setting or story changed in this version??!?

My son who plays a Warforged plans for me to incorporate him into the world as a stone, hardwood and bone "living" construct.

It's not a religion, it's just a game :D. With that said.
I don't have the books yet so I can't give you a summary, maybe someone else. But I would recommend you read the Wanderer's Journal from the first Boxet set and the Prism Pentad, that's all the fluff you need to get a solid impression ;).

There are many ways to incorporate a Warforged. Don't forget that the Dark Sun setting is full of inconsitencies, and there is no right or wrong when you play YOUR game.
Warforged could be living constructs from the Blue Age (when the Life Shapers fought the Life Benders), after Rajaat was freed they awoke (through the rays of the blue sun or the water) they are made from the same living stone like all the other constructs. It's possible that some awoke even earlier.
They could also be a preserver project that was never finished during the Preserver Jihad. Now after some hundreds of years the first warforged begin to rise.

Here is also a great List with even better ideas of how you can incorporate some races into dark sun
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
#3
Finarvyn
Aug 16, 2010 12:37:55 I bought the new books yesterday, but haven't really had time to absorb the material yet.

However, my introduction to DS 19 years ago ... damn, I feel old ... was through the rulebooks but also through the Prism Pentad books by Troy Denning. Still some of my favorite books, and I'm re-reading the series to get back in the mood.

Dark Sun is an attitude. You have to enjoy role-playing in a grim setting, but if that's your thing you'll love Dark Sun!
#4
Phobos
Aug 16, 2010 13:04:46 Don't feel bad Finarvyn, I started back in 1980. Don't ask me why, I remember seeing Dark Sun back then and never once picked it up.

We play pretty gritty D&D as is, Eberron brought me back from my stop in 3.5, and we started our campaign out 10 years before the end of the Last War, because we liked the war torn world. I think Dark Sun will fit us just nicely.
#5
Sarlax
Aug 16, 2010 13:39:50
What I'm looking for is a summary list of the important changes.

Do you mean important changes in the latest incarnation from earlier versions, or do you mean things in Dark Sun which are different from the standard setting?
#6
vigilant1
Aug 16, 2010 14:04:41 Maybe the warforged is a relic the party came across in some ruins, past technology and all. If writing existed in the past ages, and the warforged is able to read and write, it could open up interesting roleplaying opportunities. This is because Sorcerer Kings have decreed that it is against the law to read and write, so most of the world is illiterate.
#7
Phobos
Aug 16, 2010 14:08:25
What I'm looking for is a summary list of the important changes.

Do you mean important changes in the latest incarnation from earlier versions, or do you mean things in Dark Sun which are different from the standard setting?

Yes sorry, meant the key things that make it so different from basic life (say FR or E). I don't know DS from 2e so that's even more alien to me.

I see missing races, classes and soem equipment. Basically, I can start to write it down, say in a Word doc as a quick reference, but I was simply seeing if anyone had it already.

Part of me needs to appologize. I forget my FLGS is a premier and gets the books a week early, so it wasn't until a few minutes ago when it hit me.... (sorry)
#8
rollawaythestone
Aug 16, 2010 21:46:25 Civilization in Dark Sun isn't your typical medieval fantasy kingdoms. If regular D&D is the iron age, Dark Sun is the bronze/stone age. Picture ancient aztecs, babylonians, and egyptians. That's civilization. The wastes are filled - when they manage to survive - with preliterate tribal peoples, escaped slaves, and exiles. Picture Conan (in the movie) after rescueing Subotai and first encountering civilization. It's hardly civilzation. It's dirty and strange. But amazing compared to the vasts stretches of emptiness between.

The racial tropes have been mentioned alot, but here is a summary.

Halflings are jungle dwelling flesh eaters. Dwarves are bald and focus-drive surface dwellers. Elves are tribal desert cuthroats that run in packs. Gnomes are dead. Muls are tough half-dwarf-men bred for the slave-pits. Half-elfs are your typical "trying to reconcile their identity". Dragonborn have been turned into the Dray, creations of a Sorceror King. Tieflings are new, but demons existed previously on Athas (not sure about devils..). Thri-Kreen are alien bug-men that roam the wastes. The Half-Giants, now Goliath, are brutes used by others and bred for slavery.
#9
ian.thomson
Aug 16, 2010 22:23:14
Divine power is officially not present, if you want to include it there's some options they list, and I've come to the conclusion it's also possible that a few gods may have survived: Asmodeus (maybe hiding in the Shadowfell), Tharizdun (the Abyss is still present), Gruumsh (he'd be happy with everything), and Vecna (he busted out of Ravenloft, so he should be able to hide and still maintain a small cult).

Arcane magic can suck surrounding life force to empower it.

Psionic power is extremely common, and it's possible to have everyone in the party start off with small psionic talents roughly equal in power to cantrips (one of them is mechanically identical to mage hand).

This version avoids contradicting the old backstory, but doesn't restrict you to it. With a bit of work and thinking, you could run it as post-apocalyptic Eberron.

Orcs, goblins, and kobolds are extinct. There are Tareks (mean mutant dudes) and Tari (rat people) that would fit mechanically (but unofficially), should your other son play any of those races.

Gnomes are officially extinct. However (unofficially), it's entirely possible there is a small tribe of halflings that favor illusion magic to agility.
#10
Phobos
Aug 17, 2010 7:01:19
This version avoids contradicting the old backstory, but doesn't restrict you to it. With a bit of work and thinking, you could run it as post-apocalyptic Eberron.

Funny you say this!!

Last night I sat down with paper and pencil and began my story line ideas for conversion. Currently they have an ongoing enemy, a Shadow Dragon named Shade. She commands a growing army of shadow assassins, and they appear now and again mixed into normal adventures I run for them. They have faced Shade twice, she has always run or outsmarted them. They have been tracking her and recently crossed into the Blade Desert.

I have a Goodman Games "runes & pyramid" adventure I was planning to run, which now fits this idea like a glove.

Now, we have a while before we move to DS, mostly due to the Character Builder update delay. So, I will keep running the story as is, but in the next adventure I intend to throw in a broken cyphered stone ring (yes a stargate portal), I will also place a gem with her that she is recovering from the location and have her slip off with it to the pyramid.

Finally when they confront her again, she will be at a spot with a "working" ring, and face her as she activates it with the gem. I'll write some monolog on what she "thinks" she's doing (she believes it will take her to the shadowfell and make her a goddess), in reality when they step through they are transported forward in time to Eberron of the future, say a few thousand years.

I guess part of me plans to lay waste to much of the world and turn lakes and oceans into sand and salt dunes, but keep the general world layout and toss in specific DS items in the Campaign book. I can assume that the history of DS still took place after the fall of the world they once knew.

Still many holes, but it may allow me to combine the brutal world of DS with "some" of the tech of Eberron.
#11
ian.thomson
Aug 17, 2010 7:38:13 I wouldn't worry about it. I like the standard story and world, but I've been mentioning in various parts of the Dark Sun boards the idea of dropping in stuff from Gamma World (and have mentioned I'll probably allow mutations to be taken in place of themes to at least one of the players, who's also a member of the forum).

There was a thread a while back, I'll see if I can dig it up, some of the folks here came up with a bunch of alternate back stories.

EDIT: right after I hit the "submit post" button, I found it - community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Phobos Aug 16, 2010 8:04:19	I will start and admit, I never even heard of DS until this version, and yet I've played for almost 30 years. Obviously it just was not on my, or fellow player's, radar. However it looked interesting so I picked up the campaign guide, read it. Let my 2 sons read it, and now were converting to DS. So, that said. Forgive me when I say I started thinking spice worms and pyramids with circular portal devices. I don't mean that in a bad way at all. What I'm looking for is a summary list of the important changes. I see a fair amount, missing races, etc. I'm trying to take notes from the setting guide, but thought this might be out there already. Also, any particular online places I shoudl read and get to know for important backstory? Not knowing the original, has the setting or story changed in this version??!? My son who plays a Warforged plans for me to incorporate him into the world as a stone, hardwood and bone "living" construct.
#2 masato Aug 16, 2010 12:09:57	I will start and admit, I never even heard of DS until this version, and yet I've played for almost 30 years. Obviously it just was not on my, or fellow player's, radar. However it looked interesting so I picked up the campaign guide, read it. Let my 2 sons read it, and now were converting to DS. So, that said. Forgive me when I say I started thinking spice worms and pyramids with circular portal devices. I don't mean that in a bad way at all. What I'm looking for is a summary list of the important changes. I see a fair amount, missing races, etc. I'm trying to take notes from the setting guide, but thought this might be out there already. Also, any particular online places I shoudl read and get to know for important backstory? Not knowing the original, has the setting or story changed in this version??!? My son who plays a Warforged plans for me to incorporate him into the world as a stone, hardwood and bone "living" construct. It's not a religion, it's just a game :D. With that said. I don't have the books yet so I can't give you a summary, maybe someone else. But I would recommend you read the Wanderer's Journal from the first Boxet set and the Prism Pentad, that's all the fluff you need to get a solid impression ;). There are many ways to incorporate a Warforged. Don't forget that the Dark Sun setting is full of inconsitencies, and there is no right or wrong when you play YOUR game. Warforged could be living constructs from the Blue Age (when the Life Shapers fought the Life Benders), after Rajaat was freed they awoke (through the rays of the blue sun or the water) they are made from the same living stone like all the other constructs. It's possible that some awoke even earlier. They could also be a preserver project that was never finished during the Preserver Jihad. Now after some hundreds of years the first warforged begin to rise. Here is also a great List with even better ideas of how you can incorporate some races into dark sun community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
#3 Finarvyn Aug 16, 2010 12:37:55	I bought the new books yesterday, but haven't really had time to absorb the material yet. However, my introduction to DS 19 years ago ... damn, I feel old ... was through the rulebooks but also through the Prism Pentad books by Troy Denning. Still some of my favorite books, and I'm re-reading the series to get back in the mood. Dark Sun is an attitude. You have to enjoy role-playing in a grim setting, but if that's your thing you'll love Dark Sun!
#4 Phobos Aug 16, 2010 13:04:46	Don't feel bad Finarvyn, I started back in 1980. Don't ask me why, I remember seeing Dark Sun back then and never once picked it up. We play pretty gritty D&D as is, Eberron brought me back from my stop in 3.5, and we started our campaign out 10 years before the end of the Last War, because we liked the war torn world. I think Dark Sun will fit us just nicely.
#5 Sarlax Aug 16, 2010 13:39:50	What I'm looking for is a summary list of the important changes. Do you mean important changes in the latest incarnation from earlier versions, or do you mean things in Dark Sun which are different from the standard setting?
#6 vigilant1 Aug 16, 2010 14:04:41	Maybe the warforged is a relic the party came across in some ruins, past technology and all. If writing existed in the past ages, and the warforged is able to read and write, it could open up interesting roleplaying opportunities. This is because Sorcerer Kings have decreed that it is against the law to read and write, so most of the world is illiterate.
#7 Phobos Aug 16, 2010 14:08:25	What I'm looking for is a summary list of the important changes. Do you mean important changes in the latest incarnation from earlier versions, or do you mean things in Dark Sun which are different from the standard setting? Yes sorry, meant the key things that make it so different from basic life (say FR or E). I don't know DS from 2e so that's even more alien to me. I see missing races, classes and soem equipment. Basically, I can start to write it down, say in a Word doc as a quick reference, but I was simply seeing if anyone had it already. Part of me needs to appologize. I forget my FLGS is a premier and gets the books a week early, so it wasn't until a few minutes ago when it hit me.... (sorry)
#8 rollawaythestone Aug 16, 2010 21:46:25	Civilization in Dark Sun isn't your typical medieval fantasy kingdoms. If regular D&D is the iron age, Dark Sun is the bronze/stone age. Picture ancient aztecs, babylonians, and egyptians. That's civilization. The wastes are filled - when they manage to survive - with preliterate tribal peoples, escaped slaves, and exiles. Picture Conan (in the movie) after rescueing Subotai and first encountering civilization. It's hardly civilzation. It's dirty and strange. But amazing compared to the vasts stretches of emptiness between. The racial tropes have been mentioned alot, but here is a summary. Halflings are jungle dwelling flesh eaters. Dwarves are bald and focus-drive surface dwellers. Elves are tribal desert cuthroats that run in packs. Gnomes are dead. Muls are tough half-dwarf-men bred for the slave-pits. Half-elfs are your typical "trying to reconcile their identity". Dragonborn have been turned into the Dray, creations of a Sorceror King. Tieflings are new, but demons existed previously on Athas (not sure about devils..). Thri-Kreen are alien bug-men that roam the wastes. The Half-Giants, now Goliath, are brutes used by others and bred for slavery.
#9 ian.thomson Aug 16, 2010 22:23:14	Divine power is officially not present, if you want to include it there's some options they list, and I've come to the conclusion it's also possible that a few gods may have survived: Asmodeus (maybe hiding in the Shadowfell), Tharizdun (the Abyss is still present), Gruumsh (he'd be happy with everything), and Vecna (he busted out of Ravenloft, so he should be able to hide and still maintain a small cult). Arcane magic can suck surrounding life force to empower it. Psionic power is extremely common, and it's possible to have everyone in the party start off with small psionic talents roughly equal in power to cantrips (one of them is mechanically identical to mage hand). This version avoids contradicting the old backstory, but doesn't restrict you to it. With a bit of work and thinking, you could run it as post-apocalyptic Eberron. Orcs, goblins, and kobolds are extinct. There are Tareks (mean mutant dudes) and Tari (rat people) that would fit mechanically (but unofficially), should your other son play any of those races. Gnomes are officially extinct. However (unofficially), it's entirely possible there is a small tribe of halflings that favor illusion magic to agility.
#10 Phobos Aug 17, 2010 7:01:19	This version avoids contradicting the old backstory, but doesn't restrict you to it. With a bit of work and thinking, you could run it as post-apocalyptic Eberron. Funny you say this!! Last night I sat down with paper and pencil and began my story line ideas for conversion. Currently they have an ongoing enemy, a Shadow Dragon named Shade. She commands a growing army of shadow assassins, and they appear now and again mixed into normal adventures I run for them. They have faced Shade twice, she has always run or outsmarted them. They have been tracking her and recently crossed into the Blade Desert. I have a Goodman Games "runes & pyramid" adventure I was planning to run, which now fits this idea like a glove. Now, we have a while before we move to DS, mostly due to the Character Builder update delay. So, I will keep running the story as is, but in the next adventure I intend to throw in a broken cyphered stone ring (yes a stargate portal), I will also place a gem with her that she is recovering from the location and have her slip off with it to the pyramid. Finally when they confront her again, she will be at a spot with a "working" ring, and face her as she activates it with the gem. I'll write some monolog on what she "thinks" she's doing (she believes it will take her to the shadowfell and make her a goddess), in reality when they step through they are transported forward in time to Eberron of the future, say a few thousand years. I guess part of me plans to lay waste to much of the world and turn lakes and oceans into sand and salt dunes, but keep the general world layout and toss in specific DS items in the Campaign book. I can assume that the history of DS still took place after the fall of the world they once knew. Still many holes, but it may allow me to combine the brutal world of DS with "some" of the tech of Eberron.
#11 ian.thomson Aug 17, 2010 7:38:13	I wouldn't worry about it. I like the standard story and world, but I've been mentioning in various parts of the Dark Sun boards the idea of dropping in stuff from Gamma World (and have mentioned I'll probably allow mutations to be taken in place of themes to at least one of the players, who's also a member of the forum). There was a thread a while back, I'll see if I can dig it up, some of the folks here came up with a bunch of alternate back stories. EDIT: right after I hit the "submit post" button, I found it - community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...