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| #1tyrantlobeMar 09, 2011 10:56:49 | So, I'm reading through some of the 2nd Edition Dark Sun material and come to this passage in Dune Trader, on page 46: "The tribe consists of a dozen clans, each containing from 300 to 700 members. The tribe's total population is around 5,000. Each clan has its own history, traditions, and symbols as briefly described in the following paragraphs." This is in reference to the Clearwater elf tribe. I'm trying to fathom how a tribe of 5,000 elves would actually exist on Athas. Would they actually move around as a large tribal unit? Smaller tribal units? Would the clans migrate on their own and occasionally meet up with the other clans? I'm no anthropology student, so I have nothing to base these questions off. Nomadic tribe articles that I find on wikipedia and such don't really answer the questions I'm looking for. Anyone else have any thoughts? |
| #2fromost_the_grimm_02Mar 09, 2011 15:01:14 | Yeah, I've thought about this, too. The way I conceptualise it, half of that number exist as a relatively stable semi-migratory tribal group that roam a given territory of the barren wastes, and the other half have left to run trade caravans, elven markets, and engage in other lucrative activities away from the main tribal unit. In my world, nomadic elves coming into adulthood leave their tribal base for a time, seeking their fortune independently in the many city-states, usually through trading. At any one time, a significant proportion of the tribe is away from the main tribal body. When they ultimately return to the tribe, their success in their trading endeavours determines their social standing in the clan/tribe as a whole; thus, the tribe's leaders are always the most successful of the clans, ensuring the overall success of the tribe. The main tribal body is a semi-migratory group. Two-thirds of this number exist in the main camp, seeing to daily duties and chores involved with surviving in the wastes - farming and caring for pack beasts, crafting items for trade, organising raids and/or significant trade options, and the more militant clans training and running drills. This larger group would move on an infrequent basis as local threats and resources demand, never draining one area of so much resources as to ruin it. In this way, the different tribes have their own territories, and have come to know which areas are rich in resources at what times of the season, and which areas pose significant threats and should be avoided. The remaining third of that main tribal group are the highly mobile scouting clans that spend the majority of their time on the periphery of the main tribal body, and ranging further afield. This would include the Greystar and Siltrunner clans of the Clearwater tribe. The Greystars would range further afield, spending most of their time as smaller clan groups, constantly keeping watch of the local area, on the lookout for possible threats, or scouting out new terrain if the main tribal body is looking to move on. If a threat is identified, this is reported back to the more central Siltrunners, who then look to diplomatically intercept any groups that may be 'straying' into Cleareater territory. Smaller, more predatory tribes would be more fluid and mobile, with individual raiding clans operating independently of the main tribal body, but reporting back to it with resources and supplies on a regular basis. With it's security in numbers, the Clearwater tribe can afford to stay in one place long enough to make some degree of subsistence farming viable; without this luxury, smaller tribes would be more reliant on raiding for resources, and so would be more mobile as a group. |
| #3SysaneMar 09, 2011 16:05:10 | You may want to check out "Elves of Athas" for more info on how the tribe/clan dynamic works. |
| #4thanerhogarMar 11, 2011 17:38:22 | I AM an anthropology student, if not one who had much focus on prehistoric anthropology, so I'll throw my 2cp in. In human history, nomadic hunter/gatherer societal models created a huge check on population growth, which is why humans lived in such small numbers before the development of agriculture. It would be very difficult even for a group of 700 humans to forage in a climate as harsh as most of Athas, although 300 might make it if they were suitably spread out. Aside from food/water production, the kind of diet necessitated by foraging tends to maintain low family size due to the biology of breastfeeding. A breastfeeding mother eating a low-protein diet will have her body focus on milk production over ovulation, effectively prioritizing existing offspring over future potential, and since breastfeeding is by far the most convenient way to feed the young for the first few years of their lives, maternity slows down a lot. Of course, Elves are very, very, different. I'd imagine they already have very low birth rate/long gestation, and who knows how their bodies deal with that kind of diet. |
| #5tentagilMar 13, 2011 10:26:37 | Think of it this way. Each "Clan" has their own area they travel in, and do so in smaller family units of perhaps a few dozen. Each of these clan areas overlaps slightly so that certain clans will come in contact every few months for trade and the passing of information. Every years all the families in a tribe meet to spread news, recognize new births, deaths, and those who have made the passage into adulthood. Every few years several, or even all, the clans gather as a single tribe for concil. So its not that you have 5,000 elves roaming as a huge mob. Its more that you have hundreds of groups of maybe 50 wandering in caravans, managing trade posts, etc. The families have strong ties to a clan, the clans have looser connections to the tribe. Look at the Mongols prior to Ghenis Kan for an example. Also keep in mind that the elves of Athas aren't just foraging for food all the time. The term tribe seems to make people look at them like the tribes of Africa or Native Americans. When from most of the infomation in the books they are much closer to the Roma, more like gypsies romaing in family trade caravans. |
| #6tzarevitchMar 21, 2011 10:17:35 | Follow what Tentagil said. Also, if you want info on the fantasy equivalents see if you can find the old 2e Al-Qadim stuff on the tribes of the deserts. 2e also had a supplement on the Horde from the forgotten realms setting. They both do a good job of describing how large tribes operate. The stuff Tentagil mentioned is both free and easier to find (google) though. ![]() |
| #7syrricMar 23, 2011 14:38:53 | the skysinger tribe is one of the largest but they have a semi permanant home in the city of nibenay |