Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 blokeski Aug 13, 2010 2:07:21	A Thri-Kreen with butterfly wings. WTF?! Discuss.
#2 nimblegrund Aug 13, 2010 2:33:31	I've got no problem with the art.  Though I wouldn't describe it as a Thri-kreen with butterfly wings. The wings aren't really at all like a butterfly's.  They are golden, and look more dragon- or bat- like to me.  Also, I'm not even sure that's a thri-kreen.  The avangion only has two arms, whereas you would think a kreen avangion would have four, unless those arms have been subsumed into the wings.  Also, look at the head and the body shape of the avangion, and then look at one of the Thri-Kreen illos.  It's very dragonlike, and very buglike as well.  I dunno.  Works for me.  Not really worth obsessing over.
#3 claytoniantomb Aug 13, 2010 5:03:15	Where are you seeing this?
#4 blokeski Aug 13, 2010 5:37:18	In the Campaign guide that I bought last week.
#5 claytoniantomb Aug 13, 2010 5:46:58	Is it out already? Sorry I live in a foreign country. Anyways, the cover of forestmaker established a buggish avangion precident, even if it was a trick of a bad guy
#6 blokeski Aug 13, 2010 6:35:34	Yes - Fanboy 3 in Manchester has it on sale. I don't remember a buggish Avangion from Forest Maker - just the gossamer-winged gray alien. Do you have a picture?
#7 claytoniantomb Aug 13, 2010 7:04:46	google the cover; those are totally mantis eyes on that thing
#8 ian.thomson Aug 13, 2010 9:05:42	Does the new book restrict avangions to human only for some reason?  If not, why not have a thri-kreen avangion?
#9 blokeski Aug 13, 2010 9:53:06	Does the new book restrict avangions to human only for some reason?  If not, why not have a thri-kreen avangion? You make a good point.  Not something I had considered.
#10 Oninotaki Aug 13, 2010 12:00:00	Does the new book restrict avangions to human only for some reason?  If not, why not have a thri-kreen avangion? You make a good point.  Not something I had considered. From the minute I saw that picture last friday I have been waiting for this thread to start. I love the picture and I say good riddance to race restrictions on advanced beings! Bring me Silt Runners Avangions, Scrab Spirits of the Land and Beasthead Giant Dragons!
#11 lizardmage Aug 14, 2010 19:16:44	There are no restrictions for the ED race wise. As for it resembling a bug...I'd allow my players to choose their form as the only thing it really stipulates in the ED is golden wings.  If my player wants to turn into a dragon then it will most likely resemble a Gold.  Giant Lion with wings is cool also, it's their character after all.    I think the choice for it artisticly was it sets itself up as something different/interesting and sets it apart from the Dragon Kings.  This is baseless speculation, but it works for me.
#12 Pennarin Aug 15, 2010 12:36:48	Mmm, do people realise you don't turn into a winged bug...but that the picture is instead of an avangion thri-kreen?
#13 haferka Aug 18, 2010 14:30:39	The original transformation changed your arms into wings.. .. thus.. I assume the picture is a transformed thri-kreen.
#14 quimeradc Aug 18, 2010 14:55:49	In my opinon, you can have your avangion look the way you want, as long as its skinny, big eyes shining being that its frightening and awe inspiring to see.
#15 MightyZehir Aug 18, 2010 15:31:09	I don't think a tri-kreen has the tail-like thing.
#16 masato Aug 18, 2010 15:35:07	I don't think a tri-kreen has the tail-like thing. Depends on the edition, and the Avangion "evolves".
#17 rollawaythestone Aug 18, 2010 15:35:50	Thri-Kreen have a large abdomen in 2e. They removed the abdomen in 3rd and 4th E. It could be a homage to the Thri-Kreen's 2e roots, or I dunno. I would guess its a Avangion Thri-Kreen. The 2e Avangion was more like a lithe alien with gossamer wings than a winged bug. More butterfly than grasshopper.
#18 FlashbackJon Aug 19, 2010 9:30:52	The text is "Using this connection [to the life force of Athas], you can alter your mortal form into a bright, winged spirit."  The mechanics are low-light vision, flight, and the ability to shed light (and add radiant to all your powers while you do so). Sounds accurate to me!
#19 asimar Aug 19, 2010 10:27:43	In the Thri-Kreen race description, there is a background "Follower of the Great One" where the Great One is refered as a Thri-Kreen Khan who once ruled the Kreen and unified them with the humans. In the 2e ed Thri-Kreen of Athas, the Great One is an Avangion (so a human, sincce the 2e ed race restriction) who unified humans and Thri-Kreen during the Cleasing Wars before disappearing, hinted the Kreen empire (at the Zik-chil recommandation, maybe) dispose of him and all the humans.  This was later hinted again in the Revised 2e Campaign Setting Also, the Chaksa (the Thri-Kreen head in the Hinterland, DSCS p. 193), had, in 2e, an Avangion head sculpted in the back.  Both heads where mutilated by the Kreen Empire in 2e ed. Maybe, the new Avangion design is more insectoid for reflecting this bit of lore.  the "new" avangion is more insectoid in appearance and it is why the Thri-Kreen consider him to be "one of them"
#20 lizardmage Aug 19, 2010 10:29:39	Could be cause it just looks kinda cool.
#21 arcanum_and_obscura Aug 19, 2010 11:01:31	I think its supposed to be a thri-kreen avangion early on the destiny path. Even a level 30 on the avangion destiny path isn't going to look like a level 30 avangion in 2e. The avangion/dragon destiny paths don't seem like they take the characters through all the stages of metamorphosis. Plus there's the whole level 30 in 4e being like level 20 for 2e/3e.
#22 bfishy Aug 19, 2010 11:52:12	i must say...whether it's a thri-kreen avangion or just an early stage avangion in general, i'm diggin' it.  much better than previous incarnations.  personally though, i like the idea that it's an avangion thri-kreen...cuz then it makes more room for cool racial interpretations of avangions - human, elf, half-elf, etc.
#23 celticmutt Aug 19, 2010 19:13:37	I think its supposed to be a thri-kreen avangion early on the destiny path. Even a level 30 on the avangion destiny path isn't going to look like a level 30 avangion in 2e. The avangion/dragon destiny paths don't seem like they take the characters through all the stages of metamorphosis. Plus there's the whole level 30 in 4e being like level 20 for 2e/3e. Uh ... what?  No, level 30 in 4e is still like level 30 in 2e/3e.
#24 masato Aug 21, 2010 16:21:25	But an Level 30/30 in 2E isn't like an Level 30 in 4E, right?
#25 NovembersDirge Aug 22, 2010 6:50:52	A Thri-Kreen with butterfly wings. WTF?! Discuss.  I've got no problem with the art. I've got problem with the complete lack of fleshed out epic level abilities. WTF?
#26 visanidethdm Aug 22, 2010 7:09:15	But an Level 30/30 in 2E isn't like an Level 30 in 4E, right? I'd say it's absolutely the same. A lvl 30 character can take on the Dragon or Lolth, much like you needed a lvl 30 char to take on the Dragon or Lolth in 2nd edition.
#27 rodneymcneely Aug 22, 2010 11:08:25	In the Prism Pentad, it's very clear that the Sorcerer Kings have some level of control over the form their dragon metamorphosis takes.  I believe Borys tells Tithian at the end of The Amber Enchantress that the SKs take forms that "suit their tastes". So, I don't see why the avangion metamorphosis is any different.
#28 603 Aug 22, 2010 15:54:33	A Thri-Kreen with butterfly wings. WTF?! Discuss.  I'm ok with the Kreen avagnion. I'm ok with all the epic destinies being open to non-humans. As for the alignment issues... that merits another thread, methinks. Lawful Good isn't as nice as the rulebook suggests.
#29 accuser Aug 22, 2010 16:31:19	If it's a Kreen, where are its extra arms?
#30 angelus_obscura Aug 22, 2010 17:34:04	If it's a Kreen, where are its extra arms? They transformed into the wings.