I'm going to pass over it and start a new campaign as GM.
1- What do I really need?
2- What should I add to have a better experience?
3- What's the difference between the 3 Core books and the Essential stuffs (Which I dont know what it is)?
NB : Keep in mind that I am an old babbling GM that GMed Darksun since the beginning (1993) and never played 4e... yet.
Thanks!
For Dark Sun, you'll need the DS Campaign Setting, Creature Catalog, PHB 1 and PHB 3 (psionics). Probably the DMG 1 or 2 (only have DMG1 myself, but I hear DMG2 has updated rules). PHB2 has good Primal classes, but it also has Divine classes which aren't really relevant in Dark Sun.
Right now to run a Dark Sun campaign I'm looking at owning:
Dark Sun Campaign Setting
DS Creature Catalog
Player's Handbook 1
PHB3
Monster Manual 2 or 3 (Probably 3)
DMG 1
I'll probably pick up some dungeon tiles and a dry-erase battlemap, or keep working from the graph paper I bought ages ago for another campaign.
2) The PHB 1 (martial classes), the PHB 2 (primal classes), the PHB 3 (psionic classes), the DMG 2 (alternative to magic item reward rules), the DSCC (DS themed monsters pre-built for you), and DDi (the character and monster builder are lifesavers).
3) Essentials are an odd combination of things. Essentials is a dumbed down version of 4e, with less options, that makes it easier for new players to pick up and learn the game. Essentials is a return to old 2e flavor. Essentials is an updated and easy to reference product line that includes the updated mechanics of 4e. Essentials does not replace older products, but works with them. Essentials does not include all of the 4e rules, but it does include all of the core mechanics of 4e, and the bare minimum of extra mechanics needed to play the game. However, essentials classes, unfortunately, are a bit of a straight jacket. As a result, they don't work very well with the excellent theme rules in the DSCS. You will need the more robust original class builds to work with those rule; at least, so far as the martial classes are concerned. Personally, I wouldn't use essentials as your "on ramp" into D&D for the purposes of playing Dark Sun. I would use the essentials products as splat material to provide "dumbed down" builds for players that are not already versed in 4e rules, or who enjoy playing "button mashing" style martial characters.
... campaign, even if I feel many things are wrong about the new setting.
I'm going to pass over it and start a new campaign as GM.
1- What do I really need?
2- What should I add to have a better experience?
3- What's the difference between the 3 Core books and the Essential stuffs (Which I dont know what it is)?
NB : Keep in mind that I am an old babbling GM that GMed Darksun since the beginning (1993) and never played 4e... yet.
Thanks!
1- You only really need the Dark Sun campaign setting, and one month of a DDI account (around 10$ I think) to download all the crunch from the other books.
1a- If you want to play with books, then all you really need is the Dark Sun campaign setting and Player's Hadbook 1. Player handbook 3 is almost required also because it includes all that is psionic. But you could play a complete Dark Sun campaign without PH3.
2- Monster books will provide a better experience because otherwise you would have to create every monster you want to antagonize your players with. There are 3 monster books out there and a Dark Sun creature catalog. I cannot tell what book is better because it is subjective, but I prefer MM2 and the creature catalog myself. One monster book will better the experience enough. I suppose the Dungeon Master guide can be handy, but I personnaly don't own it and I don't need it to play, especially as I know the work of a DM from years of experience. But it is a good read I've been told.
3- I'm not touching that one sorry, but it's better for the health of your thread and us all.
2. DSCC, Phb2, Phb3. These will add quite a bit to your DS games. Secondary optional books I'd suggest would be primal power, psionic power, dmg2. Those would add useful material. Martial power and martial power 2 would also be useful, as would arcane power. Don't forget to download bloodsand arena found on this website. (someone else can provide the link as I'm lazy and in a hurry)
OR
2. Wait til sept 21st and get a DDI subscription for a month. Download the DSCC artwork using your DDI and buy the Dmg2. Would save you money.
I'd also like to say that I find the 2e material to be a priceless resource. Athas.org's material is also very useful. I'm enjoying turning all the prestige classes into monsters. (well, almost all the prestige classes)
You will need a copy of 4e rules (cheatsheets floating around the net) and more importantly, an understanding of the 4e rules enough to design and adjudicate a game for a bunch of players, some of which may be 4e 'system masters' by now. Understand how treasure works in 4e (and how it may be different in Dark Sun), how encounters are designed, etc.
Extras: 2e fluff books. The three good ones are Dune Trader, Slave Tribes, Veiled Alliance. Ivory Triangle if you ever get near Nibenay or Gulg, City-State of Tyr for a campaign in Tyr. More books is always good, but try to avoid stuff from the Revised 2e Dark Sun.
NB : Keep in mind that I am an old babbling GM that GMed Darksun since the beginning (1993) and never played 4e... yet.
pffft.....It began in 1991. What a newb!
Actually in all seriousness what everybody else is saying is great. Don't mind me, I'm just having fun here trolling I guess.
NB : Keep in mind that I am an old babbling GM that GMed Darksun since the beginning (1993) and never played 4e... yet.
I would just like to say that you have been gming darksun since before I was old enough to read. Bravo you ol' grognard you.
NB : Keep in mind that I am an old babbling GM that GMed Darksun since the beginning (1993) and never played 4e... yet.
pffft.....It began in 1991. What a newb!
Actually in all seriousness what everybody else is saying is great. Don't mind me, I'm just having fun here trolling I guess.
No trolls on Athas. You're in the wrong forum, Sir_Sparhawk :P
Note: Yes, I know you'll then counter with the remnants of Troll Grave Chasm in the northern lands, but it's a funny comment. Let's not stand on technicalities ;)
BOOKS: DS Campaign Setting & DS Creature Catalog + the new Rules Compendium, so a total 3 books
DDI: with the update of the DDI of early next october for Character Builder, for all PC options & Monster Builder, to modify MM1-2-3 monsters suggest in Creature Catalog).
Too much books & errata for PC Classes for my taste, so Character Builder do a very good job.
If you like to custom Undead as in old Dark Sun, Open Grave can be cool.
So not so much buck to begin DS4
For my part, i start to DM in High School with Dark Sun in 1995.
I will run it this way:
BOOKS: DS Campaign Setting & DS Creature Catalog + the new Rules Compendium, so a total 3 books
DDI: with the update of the DDI of early next october for Character Builder, for all PC options & Monster Builder, to modify MM1-2-3 monsters suggest in Creature Catalog).
Too much books & errata for PC Classes for my taste, so Character Builder do a very good job.
If you like to custom Undead as in old Dark Sun, Open Grave can be cool.
So not so much buck to begin DS4
For my part, i start to DM in High School with Dark Sun in 1995.
Yes. This would really be the perfect way, if you want to save money. Of course, DDI subscription can seem pricey, but it will save you from buying 1, 2, THREE Player's Handbooks and any number of monster manuals.
I am a bit puzzled about DDI stuff. Does it mean that if I subscribe now, I wont be able to have the DS stuff that will come out on 21th? Does it mean that if I subs on the 21th I wont be able to have what have been created before 21th?
I saw a lots of things written here but I think I dont really understand how DDi work. Will I be able to skim through the older Dragon and Dnd mags? Are all the goodies downloadable? You say I dont need PHB1 because all is there... What is actually there? Can I print it or download it?
Even for an old fart like me, even if I am rather good at computers (knowing some in everything computer related) and even if I have a good english (I think), I'm still unable to have an idea of what's DDI.
Thanks to all who shall enlight.
You guys all suck. I played Darksun back in 1977 while I was still in my mother womb. The designers stole the idea from me a few years later.
lol, too much catnip, eh?
Thanks for all the comments. (first I think I started in 1992, it was a year before university... yeah and I own the second oldest Darksun website)
I am a bit puzzled about DDI stuff. Does it mean that if I subscribe now, I wont be able to have the DS stuff that will come out on 21th? Does it mean that if I subs on the 21th I wont be able to have what have been created before 21th?
I saw a lots of things written here but I think I dont really understand how DDi work. Will I be able to skim through the older Dragon and Dnd mags? Are all the goodies downloadable? You say I dont need PHB1 because all is there... What is actually there? Can I print it or download it?
Even for an old fart like me, even if I am rather good at computers (knowing some in everything computer related) and even if I have a good english (I think), I'm still unable to have an idea of what's DDI.
Thanks to all who shall enlight.
If you subscribe for 1 month, you will be able to:
Access and use the character builder with all the current information. This downloads onto your computer. When your subscription expires, you can still you the character builder completely like any other program. You just can't get the newest updates.
Access to the adventure tools with all the current monsters. This lets you build monsters using those pretty stat blocks. Just like character builder, this downloads onto your computer and you can use it forever. You just don't get newer updates without a subscription.
Dragon & Dungeon Magazines. You get to download every single issue ever released and keep them forever on your computer. You can also print them out.
Online Compendium. I'm not a subscriber and I don't use my friends compendium so I can't tell you much about this. It's basically a digital library of information and very useful for gaming without books. You get to use this (IIRC) as long as you are subscribed.
Preview articles & Artwork Galleries. While subscribed, you gain access to the latest magazine articles before they're compiled into a full issue and you also gain access to the art gallery.
IMHO, it is worth the money to subscribe for 1 month and get the CB, the AT and all the magazines. I would wait until the newest update comes out, so you get the darksun stuff.
Online Compendium. I'm not a subscriber and I don't use my friends compendium so I can't tell you much about this. It's basically a digital library of information and very useful for gaming without books. You get to use this (IIRC) as long as you are subscribed.
This is worth the entire subscription price alone, for me. I don't actually use it WHILE gaming but any time I feel like doing anything D&D related while away from my books (which is pretty much all the time I'm not playing D&D).
I probably spend more time on it than I would playing an MMO for which I would pay 3x the price.
Dragon & Dungeon Magazines. You get to download every single issue ever released since the mags went all digital and keep them forever on your computer. You can also print them out.
Fixed it for you, to forstall any confusion. Though it would be awesome if the uncorrected version were true.
Thank you all, I will wait sept 21th and see what I can grab out of DDI.
Important: since you started the thread, they have delayed the update again, to October (basically, just skipping September entirely).
Thank you all, I will wait sept 21th and see what I can grab out of DDI.
Important: since you started the thread, they have delayed the update again, to October (basically, just skipping September entirely).
Maybe I'm nut, but I can't seems to find where you see these dates!?
Just so you can save yourself the hassle should it not work.