Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Harliquinn Nov 15, 2010 20:43:50	Before I continue, please don't comment on whether Dragonmarks belong in Darksun. This is only a discussion on how Dragonmarks might have an origin in the Darksun world. I'm proposing a backstory on the origin of Dragonmarks in Darksun, using the Dragon Kings as the catalyst for their appearance (since that would be the equivalent in terms of power levels needed). Proposed Backstory: When the first sorcerer, Rajaat, sent his Dragon Kings forth into the world to cleanse the non-human races, each Champion carried with him a mysterious "Dragonmark". These marks embodied the core tenants of each Champion. However, wherever the Dragon Kings waged war, the ancient magics brought to bear mixed with their blood anywhere it was spilled and caused mutations in the populations they were sent to eradicate. These mutations slowly appeared as strange markings upon the skin of the lesser races. While the powers brought forth by these marks pale in comparison to that wrought by the original Dragon Kings, the link to those dark times still manifests itself occasionally upon mortals. Mark of Detection (Champion Tectuktitlay): Mark associated with his support and creation of the mindbenders and his following of The Way. Mark of Finding (Champion Hamanu): Mark associated with his relentless pursuit of eradicating the trolls and in tracking down other dragon kings to kill them. Mark of Handling (Champion Daskinor): Mark associated with his use and control of the beasts of the land in destroying the goblins before going insane. Mark of Healing (Champion Wyan): Mark associated with her use of healing magic to kill the pixies (made up) Mark of Hospitality (Champion Oronis): Mark associated with his reversal of his dragon transformation and becoming an avangion for the forces of good. Mark of Making (Champion Dregoth): Mark associated with his transformation and the creation of the Dray. Mark of Passage (Champion Balic): Mark associated with his extensive travels, able to recruit slaves from many parts of Athas and in bringing over the Maenads. Mark of Scribing (Champion Myron): Mark associated with Myron's uncovering of Rajaat's betrayal plot to kill the humans. Mark of Sentinel (Champion Sacha): Mark associated with being the first champion and remaining loyal to Rajaat, despite his betrayal. Mark of Shadow (Champion Nibenay): Mark associated with Nibenay's reclusive nature and the powers of shadow and darkness he brings to bear. - Dark Side Mark of Shadow (Champion Abalach-Re): Mark associated with Abalach-Re's excessive nature, using a guise of the avangion for her own purposes. - Excess Side Mark of Storm (Champion Lalali-Puy): Mark associated with the primal powers brought to bear by this champion during her cleansing and today. Mark of Warding (Champion Borys): Mark associated with Borys's imprisonment and guardianship of Rajaat after his death. Mark of Death (Rajaat's Mark): This mark has not been seen on a mortal race, though tales and rumors abound of its assumed power should it ever manifest. Abberant Marks: Kalak (not a Champion), Lesser Champions and others who fought for Rajaat often had powers, which while lesser in scope than the Dragon Kings still provided some benefit, usually an offensive power. Any thoughts on the assignment of Dragonmarks to the Champions would be welcomed as well as any historical basis to support or decry the above associations.
#2 Pennarin Nov 15, 2010 21:39:02	The three Eberron dragons were at the core of the world's creation...or something like that, IIRC. On Athas the primordials created the world, so the marks could be a legacy from them, their stamp of making, sometimes coming to the fore in a few per generation. They wouldn't be called dragonmarks, since no one knows the SKs are dragons. The only dragon is the Dragon. Short of being called Marks of the Dragon...something primordial instead. Each would be the mark of a powerful primordial that personally had a hand in crafting the world. Their powers would be primal in nature, not arcane (if they ever release the elemental power source, then definitely elemental).
#3 tentagil Nov 16, 2010 9:42:09	Personally if you're going to associate them with the SKs I'd add a penalty of somekind along with the bonus.  They are for the most part evil and twisted beings, their power is corrupt, its not going to just give people something, its going to take something away as well. I do think it would make more sense to relate the marks to the primordials as well, I can't see the SKs being willing to let any of thier power, no matter how small, out in the wild without having some control over it.  Which could be an option, any person with a "Dragonmark" is bound to that champion, unable to fight them, and able to be controlled by them if in close proximity.
#4 Harliquinn Nov 16, 2010 9:51:01	The idea of tying them to the primordials is an interesting one. I just don't have enough information around those to make any sort of correlation with the 13 marks (plus Aberrant). The intent was that the 'power' of the marks appearing was a side-effect and not an intentional distribution of power. I would imagine that anyone with a "Dragonmark" in Darksun would be sought after by the remaining sorcerer-kings to either recruit or kill if they refused. I think that would be an appropriate "RP drawback" but wouldn't have much mechanical basis. Other than a penalty to a certain skill use or perhaps a circumstance penalty to certain situations, I don't think I'd assign any negative mechanical drawback to a feat, since the balance of the feat is already accounted for (I assume). Is there a source of good primordial information (as it pertains to Darksun) that you would recommend to make some modifications?
#5 villianbynecessity Nov 16, 2010 10:07:50	Another possible option is to make them a parting gift of the gods.  Except the aberrant mark, which I would use as the sorcerer kings attempt to create their own marks.   The Gods, defeated, leave their last gift on the sentient races.  These marks grant power.  Most are unaware of the origin of their mark.  Elementals recognize and pursue those so marked as enemies.  The sorcerer kings want to replicate the mark still.   This was my plan if someone insisted on having a mark in my campaign.  They become divine in origin and more mysterious.  In addition, it makes the primordials enemies in a big way.
#6 fromost_the_grimm_02 Nov 16, 2010 13:47:31	What about making them ultimatley stemming from the rhulisti nature-masters?  The Lifeshapers experimented heavily with altering the forces of life (i.e. thus Primal source) and the symbiosis of living creatures.  The legacy of those symbiotic additions grafted onto creatures lives on even today, in the small vestiges of power that manifest randomly in individuals, and sometimes through bloodlines. As this comes from a time before Rajaat was in his diapers, it's strange and unknown even to the Sorcerer-Kings.  Meaning those with the marks need to be especially careful least they get siezed for ... questioning.  Especially so those manifesting a mark in Balic, as Andropinis -- one of the more erudite of the Champions -- has taken a special interest in this enduring legacy from before the Cleansing Wars, and is always interested in additional study material. Also, while most of these Marks of the Lifeshapers stem from the nature-masters, the aberrant marks (or more 'evil' marks) could instead come from the nature-benders.
#7 Harliquinn Nov 16, 2010 14:36:25	Where can I find out more about the Nature Masters and Nature  Benders?
#8 Pennarin Nov 16, 2010 14:40:00	Depending on how you cut it, most campaigns will have regular folks and/or adventurers know the world is a product of the primordials, but few campaigns will have the knowledge the halflings were the master race from which everyone sprang. Considering that, making the marks have a mysterious, virtually unknowable origin as a product of the halflings would be way too mysterious, but having them be from primordials makes more sense. Note there are city temples and lone wasteland priests of the elements (technically Primal, but they worship the elements, which on Athas have become comingled with primal) which might know - and have known and preached for thousands of years - that the primordials are the creators of the world. At your discretion the elemental origins of the world can be part of common Athasian lore.
#9 darthinkwell Nov 16, 2010 14:54:47	Where can I find out more about the Nature Masters and Nature  Benders? Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs, am AD&D 2e DS Sourcebook detailing the last survivors of the ancient rhustali halflings and the little life shape tech they have left.
#10 onionkid Nov 16, 2010 15:07:53	I actually just renamed the Dragonmark feats "Wild Talents" and considered them all to be psionic in nature. Mark of Warding is someone who can project a psychic shield, and Mark of Finding is a clairvoyant etc.
#11 fromost_the_grimm_02 Nov 16, 2010 18:34:17	Considering that, making the marks have a mysterious, virtually unknowable origin as a product of the halflings would be way too mysterious, but having them be from primordials makes more sense. Myself, I think that having them stem from an ancient people who where known for their twiddling about with primal lifeforce and symbiotic grafting actually makes a lot of sense.  This would also give each mark a purpose; each stemmed from a procedure specifically designed to give a tailored effect, the legacy of each still existing in the marks today, albeit greatly attenuated from the original. The key words there, of course, being 'who were known'.  Having them stem from rhulisti Lifeshapers would work if you wanted a mysterious origin that probably would never be uncovered as part of the campaign, or only if the characters really wanted to make an effort of it when they're high enough level to safely delve into such knowledge.  And those with such marks would be of even greater value to the likes of any Sorcerer-Kings curious of that history.  So they'd probably be somewhat rare, and maybe even hunted. Having them be primordial in origin would be more suited to a situation where you'd want their legacy to be known, or more easily accessible.  They could be a lot more common, and impact on the world (in terms of what interest/suspicion they stir up) less.  A merchant house based on those with a mark advantageous to diplomatic wrangling would work.  But as the primordials were chaotic beings, the mark's origins would more likely be the result of random association between Primal and Elemental forces; those marks still existing today would have survived through the years via a form of Darwinian 'survival of the useful-est', while other less useful marks would have been bred out.
#12 Pennarin Nov 16, 2010 19:48:29	I see the marks, or something close to them, resembling the art for the genasi from all those Dragon/Dungeon magazine artists: a blue vain of crystal on the skin, a flickering flame in the mouth, stone-like hands.
#13 Harliquinn Nov 17, 2010 8:57:42	Sounds like some interesting ideas. I've purchased a few of the old AD&D books listed, so I'll have a look. Seems that no one is really in favor of having them be from the sorcerer kings, so I'll see what I can do about modifying it for our game (With DM's permission). I just want to have a strong backstory before presenting it. If anyone has other ideas, let me know. Thanks.