Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 samsael Aug 04, 2010 17:41:29	I'm going to ask my players to start thinking about their dark sun characters, but I'm having trouble coming up with a final list of choices. Sword Mages Artificers assassins Spell scars Non-Sorcer-King Pact Warlocks I'm trying to decide which of these, if any, are appropriate. Spellscars might cover the horriying mutations that happen after extensive use of defiling magic, assuming that isn't already covered I the new rules.
#2 celticmutt Aug 04, 2010 18:32:10	All of the above are appropriate.  Arcane magic still exists on Athas, as does magic items, so there is no reason a Swordmage or Artificer wouldn't exist.  The Gray = the Shadowfell, and is probably an even worse place, so Assassins should exist.  Spell scars = mutations is definitely the most logical route.  And most if not all of the Warlock Pact entities either exist on Athas, or the pacts can be easily reflavored for something that does exist.
#3 Nyarlathotep Aug 04, 2010 19:18:32	I think all of them are fine.  I have a player in the campaign that I am planning who is wanting to play an assasin.  I figured that if there was no shadowfell equivalent (which I doubt, but who knows) that the assasins powers would just be some sort of unique magic known only to a few.  IN any case, I think anything that the player can come up with a suitable explanation for is fine, provided the DM agrees.  I.e. The Divine power source is a definite no-no in Dark SUn, but if one of my players REALLY wants to play a divine character and can come up with a good explanation for without actually requiring Gods in the world, its fine with me.
#4 visanidethdm Aug 04, 2010 19:24:06	IN any case, I think anything that the player can come up with a suitable explanation for is fine, provided the DM agrees.  I.e. The Divine power source is a definite no-no in Dark SUn, but if one of my players REALLY wants to play a divine character and can come up with a good explanation for without actually requiring Gods in the world, its fine with me. I'm toying with the idea of doing something I did in a past game. In other worlds, gods get much of their power for worship. Now, in DS there's no gods... but what if there's still worship? We had a cult of people who believed in some sort of messianic religion ("there's a benevolent god out there trying to reach out for us, and one day he will rescue us from SKs and this cesspit of a world" etc). Of course, there actually wasn't any benevolent god to speak of, but people's believe made the power real. The clerics and paladins got their power from their and the other people's willpower. It fundamentally was psionic-fueled divine power (and the twist was that, while the heroes got told by the SKs that it was all a lie orchestrated by them as a control device, in the end so many people believed and hoped in that lie that their latent psionic powers actually gave birth to a psionic messiah... who made quite a mess of several city states).
#5 Nyarlathotep Aug 04, 2010 19:38:42	IN any case, I think anything that the player can come up with a suitable explanation for is fine, provided the DM agrees.  I.e. The Divine power source is a definite no-no in Dark SUn, but if one of my players REALLY wants to play a divine character and can come up with a good explanation for without actually requiring Gods in the world, its fine with me. I'm toying with the idea of doing something I did in a past game. In other worlds, gods get much of their power for worship. Now, in DS there's no gods... but what if there's still worship? We had a cult of people who believed in some sort of messianic religion ("there's a benevolent god out there trying to reach out for us, and one day he will rescue us from SKs and this cesspit of a world" etc). Of course, there actually wasn't any benevolent god to speak of, but people's believe made the power real. The clerics and paladins got their power from their and the other people's willpower. It fundamentally was psionic-fueled divine power (and the twist was that, while the heroes got told by the SKs that it was all a lie orchestrated by them as a control device, in the end so many people believed and hoped in that lie that their latent psionic powers actually gave birth to a psionic messiah... who made quite a mess of several city states). Oooh, that's a cool idea.  I don't think any of my players really want to do a divine character, but I might steal it if they do and they don't have any ideas of their own. I was thinking an Avenger is tailor made to be a templar, perhaps gaining their power from the SK in a manner akin to (but not exactly like, obviously) an SK-Pact warlock.  Ditto for a Paladin.
#6 ian.thomson Aug 04, 2010 20:07:01	To OP: There was a thread on spellscars you may be interested in: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Some of the ideas from that thread include: -Turning spellscars into a theme instead of a multiclass-only class -A result of being exposed to too much defiling magic (perhaps only in some individuals that are resistant to defiling) -Experiment by a sorcerer king (perhaps Dregoth), or heck, maybe the Veiled Alliance -Unusual school of magic (secret VA techniques, defiler school, something), perhaps approved by the SKs for public use (guild techniques) -Fallout from Kalak's failed attempt to become a dragon -A result of living in the sunwarped flats As for non-SK pacts: -Dark: the Atlas of Athas: Tyr preview mentions Under-Tyr, which is safe to assume is the Underdark (or close enough). -Fey: the Feywild is present. -Infernal: devils are given the rare mention in 2e DS, and devil-summoners fit in well enough in Conan (one way to check if it's appropriate for DS is to ask "would it fit in Conan, John Carter, or Dune?") -Star Pact: Astrology is present on Athas, and the star pact is Lovecraftian enough to fit in Conan. -Vestige: 2e DS necromancers were close enough to Vestige pact warlocks that one might as include them. Swordmages would work quite well for templars or muscle for the Veiled Alliance. Artificers would fit the same role in society as a wizard, just that they work with improving items and party-members instead of blowin' up stuff. Regard divine power: I'm going to exclude it unless a player absolutely wants to play a character foreign to Athas (which will result in some trouble).  I have considered the idea of allowing divine power (with the gods defeated, but not completely wiped out), but only allowing malign gods and Ioun, Kord, and the Raven Queen.  Alternatively, the Cthulhu Mythos.  Regardless, divine characters would be seen as crazy (and reasonably so).
#7 vigilant1 Aug 05, 2010 1:19:12	The Dark pact for Warlocks could be from Rajaat. He is imprisoned in the Hallow, located in the Black, which at least in previous editions was connected to all shadows. Sometimes Rajaat might whisper offerings of powers to people through their shadows, to those desperate to end the tyranny of the Sorcerer kings. One person with false hope and confidence could spark rebellions like the one in Tyr, and eventually free Rajaat. That and the darkness theme and shadows/ the black/the hollow kind of mesh together.
#8 Bera Aug 05, 2010 3:17:46	I think a better way to approach things is with gradience, rather than absolute (and subjective) judgments about what can and cannot exist in the world. For classes, you get a heirarchy like: Common: Martial and Psionic classes. Thematically appropriate, no problems at all. Common people would expect to find powerful warriors and mindbenders in their cities, villiages, or tribes. Uncommon: Arcane, Primal, and Shadow classes. These aren't a dime a dozen. Primal classes are less common in the cities, sometimes hunted by the sorcerer-kings. Arcane classes are generally hunted everywhere and driven underground. Shadow classes could exist with some connection to the grey, but aren't likely to be common nor would their magic be readily accepted by most people.  There are roleplaying considerations (hiding your magic from agents of the sorcerer-kings), but that's about it. No real reason to exclude any of them. Rare/Unique: Divine classes. These classes require the most thought to integrate. Who are the gods, where do they come from, etc. They may need extensive background or fluff-adaptations, but are mechanically fine. If you want, you can be a bit more fine-graned and go on a class-by-class basis, or even a build-by-build basis. Maybe you want only the Wizard, Sorcerer-king pact warlock, and Bard to be uncommon while the Sorcerer, other Warlocks, Artificer, and Swordmage are rare/unique. Since the incorporation of Epic into the core rules, the PCs are expected to be the world-changing heros. They're already likely to be something strange and unusual, so I don't see much reason to outright ban things. Asking players to work with you to come up with compelling and believable characters that fit everyone's concept of the world, however, is completely reasonable. The same goes for races, paragon paths, and epic destinies.
#9 Zackmack75 Aug 06, 2010 14:15:43	I have one player who imediately wanted to play a Paladin.  The way we're doing it is he has no idea what god is hearing his prayers, but he knows that if he prays, someone is listening.  Everyone thinks he's "not right," and they treat him like a nut-job who talks to himself.  Fortunately, he's great in a fight so the other players are more forgiving. The only other Divine class that I'm allowing is Runepriest.  Their powers do not come from prayers, but from discovered runes.  It's very easy to incorporate rune research into DS as you can have the occasional one pop up in older ruins or in secreted locations.   Every other class is fair game.  They just have to come up with a damn good reason for hanging out with the rest of the party.
#10 ian.thomson Aug 06, 2010 20:46:24	Every other class is fair game.  They just have to come up with a damn good reason for hanging out with the rest of the party.  "Slavery in Urik" is my solution for letting the players have a variety of characters.