Low Metal Rules
Monetary System
On Athas, ceramic pieces are the standard. They
can be break in ten parts called bits. Ten ceramic
pieces equal a silver piece and a hundred equal a
gold piece. Their is no copper or platinum pieces
on Athas. Rare astral diamond are 10 000 ceramic or
100 golds.
Breaking Rule
Prerequisite: Light/Heavy Blade, Axe & Pick
On a natural miss, the weapon take a -2 to damage
rolls (save ends).
Only these non-metal weapon group are subject to
break. Metal is usually replace by bone (Tyr),
stone, obsidian (Urik) or wood (Nibenay).
Armor Optimization Feature
Prerequisite: At least Chainmail Proficiency
When wearing light armor or none, the character
add his Strength or Constitution modifier to his
Armor Class in addition to any Int or Dex modifier.
Low Magic Rules
Parcels
Give money parcels in ceramic. Give only one parcel of the same level for ''magic-psionic'' item.
Planes
Planar travels is hard due to a Grey mist that surround Athas. Elemental Chaos receive a -2 penalty. Shadowfell (The Black) get a -5, all others are at -10.
Rituals
On Athas, rituals and their components are rare. To
reflect this: market price, components and any
other cost involved are double.
Enchant Magic Item ritual cost is in silver not in
ceramic pieces (so it's a x10 adjustment to price).
Alchemy is not affected by this rule.
Edges
Each time a character gain a feat, he also take an
Edge. Each type must be choosed before stacking
another layer, so +2 will begin at level 6, +3 at
level 11 and +5 at level 21.
Note: Only the higher bonus between an Edge and
a magic item apply.
Natural Armor: +1 to AC
Resilience: +1 to Will, Reflex & Fortitude
Accuracy: +1 to Attack and damage rolls
Defiling Arcane Feature
Prerequisite: Arcane power source
Defiling is taking more from the land than
necessary when casting spells.
Effect: +1 to damage rolls per tier and turning
land into necrotic ashes in a burst 1 per tier.
Divine Classes
Divine power source users receive their prayers from Sorcerer-King or Elements (Air, Earth, Fire, Water).
Primal Classes
Primal power source come from the ''para-elemental'' stuff: Rain, Sand, Wind and the Sun.
Deva
Known in athasian legends as Pyreen, Deva protect
the land and truly worship the Elements and the
Spirits of the Lands.
Dragonborn
Three tribe of dragonborn exist, those known as
Pterran in two villages to the West of Tyr, Ssurran
to the North of the Tablelands and Dray in Raam.
Dwarf
Athasian dwarves do not have any hair and are
known for their mental focus. They live in human
cities as they make hardy slaves.
Eladrin
Rare on Athas, they come from the Athasian Feywild.
They are known as powerful defilers and slavers. In
the Feywild, they are at war with the Fomorians.
Elf
Elves live in the athasian desert in tribes as pirates.
They are black-market traders and thieves. They
are often associate with defiling arcane magic.
Genasi
Born in the Elemental Chaos, solitary genasi are
not an uncommon sight on Athas, since many leaks
come from this plane.
Gnome
Slaves to the Athasian Eladrin, gnomes also
originate from the athasian feywild.
Goliath
Called half-giants on athas, goliath live in humans
cities like dwarves since the majority are slaves.
They where enslave and breed long ago by the
sorcerer-monarchs.
Half-Elf
Usually wanderers since half-elf tend to be outcast
on Athas as humans don't trust them for their elves
blood and elves don't consider them family.
Half-Orc
Eldaarich is the home of this long forgotten race.
Many templars of Daskinor are half-orc. They are
now sight in Draj and Kurn.
Halfling
Savage and cannibal, halflings are the oldest race
on athas. They like elven meat in particular. Most
of them live in tribal villages in the Forest Ridge.
Those encountered in human cities are more
civilized, but rumors persist that they don't
change their diet easily.
Human
Athasian humans do not differ from standard
humans. They are the most numerous race in the
Tablelands.
Shifter
This unknown race in the tablelands have live in
the Forest Ridge, trading with savage halflings
and dragonborn pterrans. They are now
encountered in the Tablelands as they fear the
Kreen Empire.
Tiefling
Demon-blooded Tiefling where always present on
athas in small numbers and are accept more than
elves. Superstitions abound in the case of
Tieflings. They are believe to be the children of
humans cursed by the Elements. Killing a
Tiefling is believe to bring the curse on his own
future progeny.
easy fix: on an attack roll of 1, weapons made of inferior materials break..easy!
please remember that 4th ed is NOT about making things overly complex in the rules, it's not simulationist ;)
inferior is of coruse, specific to each circumstance.
I also allow psionically tempered (or ritually enhanced) materials to be as strong as steel.
wepaon brekaing rules are to complex!
easy fix: on an attack roll of 1, weapons made of inferior materials break..easy!
please remember that 4th ed is NOT about making things overly complex in the rules, it's not simulationist ;)
inferior is of coruse, specific to each circumstance.
I also allow psionically tempered (or ritually enhanced) materials to be as strong as steel.
On a natural roll of a 1 a weapon takes a -2 to damage (save ends) is too complex? And you think that the weapon just breaks is better!?
Yea... ok.
Such conditions should only be applied to *characters* by some cool manouver/spell, unless there's good reason, and doing that damn near every fight is an uneedful chore.
just have them break, teaches a nice harsh lesson why good wepaons are much better, muhaha! :D
yes it IS too complex because you get enough such conditions to track anyway in each fight ;)
Such conditions should only be applied to *characters* by some cool manouver/spell, unless there's good reason, and doing that damn near every fight is an uneedful chore.
just have them break, teaches a nice harsh lesson why good wepaons are much better, muhaha! :D
I concur. Also, save ending the effect would imply that the weapon fixed itself.
I would probably do it as:
on a roll of a natural 1 the weapon chips/weakens. -2 to attack and damage until it's fixed.
on a second roll of a natural 1 the weapon is broken and is now an improvised weapon if the player continues to use it.
sure
it's just even easier and more "Dark Sun harsh" to make the weapon break...muhaha! ;) (works against enemies too, of course)
in RL our ancestors would *very* frequently fix stone/flint tools, they do chip and break a lot. So after each use they'd sit and re-knap the edge
penalty to hit/damage can show that
broken until fixed is easier to work with *for me* as DM, that is, and makes players realize that they should never ever rely on just one or two weapons!
Elibus,
sure
it's just even easier and more "Dark Sun harsh" to make the weapon break...muhaha! ;) (works against enemies too, of course)
in RL our ancestors would *very* frequently fix stone/flint tools, they do chip and break a lot. So after each use they'd sit and re-knap the edge
penalty to hit/damage can show that
broken until fixed is easier to work with *for me* as DM, that is, and makes players realize that they should never ever rely on just one or two weapons!
You're probably right there. I'm forgetting that my version of the rule would require two 1's to happen before a weapon ever broke, which wuld rarely, if ever, happen.
I remember my first Dark Sun character. I had a Mul Gladiator and it was my very first game of D&D and of Dark Sun. The very first time he was in combat I rolled a 1, and the DM broke his weapon(can't remember the name right now, but it was the double bonejaw axe-type weapon). I was dismayed at first, but it became a pivotal point in the game. My character immediately bull-rushed the enemy and started grappling with him trying to get the tortoise shell buckler/dagger off his arm. Eventually the enemy's weapon broke in the struggle, and he and my character starting beating each other with bare fists. The enemy was eventually choked to death after being very badly beaten.
In all the D&D games I've played since as a DM or player, I've never had another fight scene that felt that gritty, dirty, and sloppy.
I didn't really get to play Dark SUn in 3e, but I am really looking forward to it's conversion for 4e.
aye,e xactly, that's a large part of the fun of Dark Sun!
it isn't the normal setting, so, you can't even rely on weapons (until higher level) and so on
Akril'ls rules mstly look fine, it's just to remember that the player and Dm needs as LITTLE complexity of rules as possible, and as MUCH choice of actions as is possible because this is 4th ed ;)
A -2 to hit with a save ends function is the sort of mechanic that ALREADY exists in the game. Its not complicated. Having it be attached to a weapon instead of a character doesn't make it any more complicated.
I totally disagree with your opinions Silverblade. While I hope actual weapon breakage will be a part of the new 4e Dark Sun, it is impossible to add it in "in order to play dark sun now with simple home rules" in a manner that does not seriously damage the balance of the game.
If you roll another 1 before you have a chance to fix it, it snaps and you need to get a new one.
This way a player can choose to use a sidearm after the first 1 (why risk it) or keep on fighting. If the weapon is magical then you need to use the enchant ritual to fix it if it breaks.
Until 4e gets some rules that reduces the importance of items to the game, having a weapon break, especially a magical weapon, would totally destroy the balance of the game.
No, it wouldn't. Players may have reduced damage output for a little bit, but the mend item ritual is always an option. Also, 4e is not that dependant on items, it is very possible to run a low to non-magical game. Additionally, in the Dark Sun campaign there will not be many magical items that the players will have to begin with, and even few that are not made of metal.
Furthermore, with the player's recieving "Edges" instead of magic items, the loss of the +1 bone blade ins't that big of an issue.
A -2 to hit with a save ends function is the sort of mechanic that ALREADY exists in the game. Its not complicated. Having it be attached to a weapon instead of a character doesn't make it any more complicated.
and the weapon magically repairs itself in a few seconds? not too mention the loss of broken weapons is a serious loss to the flavor and theme of Dark Sun.
While I hope actual weapon breakage will be a part of the new 4e Dark Sun, it is impossible to add it in "in order to play dark sun now with simple home rules" in a manner that does not seriously damage the balance of the game.
I find it difficult to belief that it is posible to reflavor all manner of races and magic abilities, but it an absolute impossibilty to allow a weapon to get broken. For shame.
No, it wouldn't. Players may have reduced damage output for a little bit, but the mend item ritual is always an option.
Because its possible to cast a mend item ritual in the middle of a fight.
Also, 4e is not that dependant on items, it is very possible to run a low to non-magical game.
Bologna. You need to have a magical weapon with a certain bonus to hit, and a set of magical armor with a certain bonus to defense, according to the 4e rules as written, or your character will have trouble either hitting mobs of its level, or avoiding being hit by mobs of its level. It is impossibly to play a character without these items. The loss of your weapon in the middle of a fight would be horribly devastating in 4e. So devastating, in fact, that the possibility (assuming no other rules are changed) would make weapon based characters unplayable. Your proposed house rule, tacked onto the 4e rules as written, with no other changes being made, would result in no character being able to effectively play a weapons based character.
Additionally, in the Dark Sun campaign there will not be many magical items that the players will have to begin with, and even few that are not made of metal.
What the published Dark Sun campaign setting does is irrelevant to this thread. The purpose of this thread was to write some quick and dirty simple house rules so people could start playing Dark Sun now.
Furthermore, with the player's recieving "Edges" instead of magic items, the loss of the +1 bone blade ins't that big of an issue.
Once edges are released in an available WotC product, your statement might be true. However, the OP rules were written only from the perspective of what currently exists. Using what currently exists, his rules would do less damage to the current mechanics of the game than your suggestion.
and the weapon magically repairs itself in a few seconds? not too mention the loss of broken weapons is a serious loss to the flavor and theme of Dark Sun.
Perhaps the player spends a couple of seconds each round trying to jury rig his weapon back together? Alternatively, the first natural 1 results in a -2 to hit until your next short rest, the second natural 1 results in your weapon being unusable (perhaps until your next extended rest?) is a good idea as well. However, simply having the weapon break on a natural 1, assuming all other rules pretty much work as written, would destroy the balance of the game, and make the game unplayable for weapons based characters. Even the -2 to hit on a natural one until save ends, or -2 to hit on the first natural 1, and unusable on the second natural 1, would drastically alter the balance of the game. In order to keep the game balanced, implement using classes would have to suffer some sort of equivalent penalty as well.
I certainly hope that weapon breakage does make it into the 4e Dark Sun rules. However, your proposal, alone, would not work. Likewise, if someone is looking for some simple home rules to start running Dark Sun now, your proposal would be a very terrible idea.
I find it difficult to belief that it is posible to reflavor all manner of races and magic abilities, but it an absolute impossibilty to allow a weapon to get broken. For shame.
For shame yourself. Reflavoring something doesn't change the mechanics of the game. Who cares what you call something, if it mechanically works the same, nothing has really changed. Your proposal doesn't just re flavor something, it drastically alters the mechanics and balance of the game.
If you want harsher Breaking Rules, simply change it to: To the end of the encounter.
At level five all characters gain a +1 to hit with weapons based attacks. At level 15 all characters gain a +2 to hit with weapons based attacks. At level 20 all characters gain a +3 to hit with weapons based attacks.
Magic weapons do not get the normal bonuses to hit listed listed. Instead, weapons of level 3/5 gain a +1 to hit. Weapons at level 8/10 gain a +2 to hit. Weapons at level 20 are no longer breakable. Weapons at level 23/25 gain a +3 to hit. Weapons get the normal bonuses to damage that they would for their level (despite not gaining the full bonus to hit). A weapons bonus to hit stacks with the bonus to hit granted by a characters level.
On a natural roll of a 1, a weapon of lower level than 20 breaks.
Something like that would work. Its not perfect. It could still use some more work. But you get the idea.
Because its possible to cast a mend item ritual in the middle of a fight.
No, it's not, you're right.
It is possible to draw another weapon during a fight, and then after the fight is resolved it's possible to repair an item.
Bologna. You need to have a magical weapon with a certain bonus to hit, and a set of magical armor with a certain bonus to defense, according to the 4e rules as written, or your character will have trouble either hitting mobs of its level, or avoiding being hit by mobs of its level.
Yes, it would be more difficult to hit, but not impossible. Also, you are making the assumption that the person's back up weapon is of drastically reduced quality.
It is impossibly to play a character without these items.
that is incorrect. a correct statement would read: It is impossible to play a character without these items and still have the same bonuses to stats.
The loss of your weapon in the middle of a fight would be horribly devastating in 4e. So devastating, in fact, that the possibility (assuming no other rules are changed) would make weapon based characters unplayable.
Yes, it would certainly be a noticable set-back, but to say that it would make weapon based characters unplayable is incorrect. Is it not possible to carry a back-up weapon? Or maybe even several completely different weapons.
Your proposed house rule, tacked onto the 4e rules as written, with no other changes being made, would result in no character being able to effectively play a weapons based character.
That sure is a mighty statement considering how little support there is for the argument.
What the published Dark Sun campaign setting does is irrelevant to this thread. The purpose of this thread was to write some quick and dirty simple house rules so people could start playing Dark Sun now.
Low Magic Rules
Parcels
Give money parcels in ceramic. Give only one parcel of the same level for ''magic-psionic'' item.
Rituals
On Athas, rituals and their components are rare. To
reflect this: market price, components and any
other cost involved are double.
Enchant Magic Item ritual cost is in silver not in
ceramic pieces (so it's a x10 adjustment to price).
Alchemy is not affected by this rule.
The "quick, dirty, and simple" rules you referenced, limit the amount of magic items a person would have. So I would say that my statement regarding a low magic campaign using the "Edges" addition noted in the OP are relevent.
Once edges are released in an available WotC product, your statement might be true. However, the OP rules were written only from the perspective of what currently exists. Using what currently exists, his rules would do less damage to the current mechanics of the game than your suggestion.
The OP's suggestion includes "Edges". The only reason I mentioned them, is because they were on a list of proposed changes, and those were the only "Edges" I was referring to. I do not know anything about WotC's future plans for anything called "Edges" might be.
Perhaps the player spends a couple of seconds each round trying to jury rig his weapon back together? Alternatively, the first natural 1 results in a -2 to hit until your next short rest, the second natural 1 results in your weapon being unusable (perhaps until your next extended rest?) is a good idea as well. However, simply having the weapon break on a natural 1, assuming all other rules pretty much work as written, would destroy the balance of the game, and make the game unplayable for weapons based characters.
Unplayable, You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it does.
Even the -2 to hit on a natural one until save ends, or -2 to hit on the first natural 1, and unusable on the second natural 1, would drastically alter the balance of the game. In order to keep the game balanced, implement using classes would have to suffer some sort of equivalent penalty as well.
Wait, you mean that you think that all classes should face the same challenges, hurdles, and playstyles that all other classes do? Prehaps we should give all powers and all keywords to all classes then.
I certainly hope that weapon breakage does make it into the 4e Dark Sun rules. However, your proposal, alone, would not work. Likewise, if someone is looking for some simple home rules to start running Dark Sun now, your proposal would be a very terrible idea.
You're right, true weapon breakage alone doesn't work to create a Dark Sun enviroment. Weapon breakage combined with all of the other listed suggestions goes quite ways towards though. It would only create issues if characters only had one mode of attack and one weapon through which to make them. In short, it would only be a terrible idea for terribly stupid characters. Since Dark Sun is about evolution, it seems fitting these Darwin-style rejects should leave the gene pool.
For shame yourself. Reflavoring something doesn't change the mechanics of the game. Who cares what you call something, if it mechanically works the same, nothing has really changed. Your proposal doesn't just re flavor something, it drastically alters the mechanics and balance of the game.
Allowing weapons that are made of fragile material to actually break, is not a drastic reworking of the game. Have you ever had a character break a goblet, a door, a locked chest, clothing, or rip parchment? It's just like that, only for a different kind of item.
Instead of my oppinion/idea is the only good one and the only one that matters. We are getting, I see your point and I respectfully dissagree.
While I dont neccesarily like the idea with of weapons breaking at all or so easily. I think it not only messes with the balance but also messes with the economy. I do see some people using weapon breakage who want an even more gritty feel. I see both rules being able to be used by those who want one thing and those who want another.
No, it's not, you're right.
It is possible to draw another weapon during a fight, and then after the fight is resolved it's possible to repair an item.
Because players can afford lots of magical items with the appropriate bonuses to hit for their level, especially with the reduced magic item rules proposed by the original poster?
Yes, it would be more difficult to hit, but not impossible. Also, you are making the assumption that the person's back up weapon is of drastically reduced quality.
See above. Based on the reduced magic item parcels, its probably not a bad assumption that a back up weapon will be of drastically reduced quality. Also, no, it would not just be more difficult. It would eventually become virtually impossible. Eventually a weapon grants a +6 bonus to hit. Even with those +6 bonus to hit weapons, characters tend to have about a 50% chance of hitting enemies of the same level. Taking a -6 penalty to hit because your weapon just broke isn't something just being more difficult to hit, its having your chance to hit reduced to 20%. At that point in time, your character has become effectively worthless to the encounter.
that is incorrect. a correct statement would read: It is impossible to play a character without these items and still have the same bonuses to stats.
No, what I said is correct. If your character has a 5% chance of taking a -6 penalty to hit, for the rest of an encounter, with every attack, it is impossible to play that character effectively. A player is better off avoiding a weapons based character, and choosing to play an implement wielding character who will never have to suffer this drastic penalty.
Yes, it would certainly be a noticable set-back, but to say that it would make weapon based characters unplayable is incorrect. Is it not possible to carry a back-up weapon? Or maybe even several completely different weapons.
At high levels, no, its not realistically possible to carry a large number of back up weapons. Likewise, without any rules as to when a weapon is broken until, it is not just a "noticeable set-back" that a weapon is lost (forever). Being forced to take a 5% chance to take -6 penalty to hit until the end of an encounter with every attack is enough of a reason not to play this character already. The additional penalty of the loss of gold a character effectively suffers every time a character rolls that 5% chance cements the deal. There is no reason to play a weapons based character under those conditions.
That sure is a mighty statement considering how little support there is for the argument.
Little support? Ok.
Why don't you go on the char-op boards and ask them, "between the choice of playing a melee based character who suffers a -6 penalty to hit until the end of an encounter on any natural roll of a 1, and looses his magical weapon forever (meaning the loss of gold your character suffers), or a implement based character who still pretty much plays as per the RAW, which character would you prefer to play?" See what they say. Nobody is going to want to play a weapons based character under those conditions.
The "quick, dirty, and simple" rules you referenced, limit the amount of magic items a person would have. So I would say that my statement regarding a low magic campaign using the "Edges" addition noted in the OP are relevent.
1) The term "Edges" never appears in the rules you just quoted.
2) The rules you just quoted further give reasons why your suggestion that a weapon simply breaks on a 1 is a TERRIBLE idea without significant further readjustment to the rules.
The OP's suggestion includes "Edges". The only reason I mentioned them, is because they were on a list of proposed changes, and those were the only "Edges" I was referring to. I do not know anything about WotC's future plans for anything called "Edges" might be.
Re-read what you quoted. The word edges doesn't even appear.
Unplayable, You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it does.
It means exactly what I think it does. It means a 5% chance of taking a -6 penalty to hit until the end of an encounter, thus having your chance to hit reduced to 20% per attack.
Wait, you mean that you think that all classes should face the same challenges, hurdles, and playstyles that all other classes do? Prehaps we should give all powers and all keywords to all classes then.
Bologna. The classes are already balanced against each other. They are already given different challenges, hurdles, and playstyles, which result in them being balanced against each other. Just adding in a 5% chance, on every attack, to take a -6 penalty to hit with weapons until the end of the encounter, while leaving casters virtually the same, isn't giving two different classes different challenges, hurdles, and playstyles. Its nerfing one class into worthlessness.
You're right, true weapon breakage alone doesn't work to create a Dark Sun environment. Weapon breakage combined with all of the other listed suggestions goes quite ways towards though. It would only create issues if characters only had one mode of attack and one weapon through which to make them. In short, it would only be a terrible idea for terribly stupid characters. Since Dark Sun is about evolution, it seems fitting these Darwin-style rejects should leave the gene pool.
What a horribly inaccurate conclusion.
Allowing weapons that are made of fragile material to actually break, is not a drastic reworking of the game. Have you ever had a character break a goblet, a door, a locked chest, clothing, or rip parchment? It's just like that, only for a different kind of item.
When you break a goblet, door, or locked chest, you don't loose all of its magical enchantments and the +6 bonus to hit that your character needs in order to mathematically stay viable as a character.
Also, just so that nothing is taken too personally and no toes are stepped on, CyberDave I have seen many of your posts on this board, and i agree with you a good deal. none of my arguments are intended to be anything other than arguments made in a light hearted manner regarding a game that we both enjoy. Ultimately, we will probably play the rules very different at our respective tables.
Absolutely. Nothing personal. But I still don't think your idea is anywhere near workable without additional further readjustments to the rules. At the very least, only heroic tier weapons should be breakable under your proposed rule set.
Where did I say that *magic* items should break?
They shouldn't, unless DM wishes it so for special reasons.
I'm talking about the *standard Dark Sun weapons made with locally available materials of inferior strength!*
once an item is enchanted it CANNOT be inferior, either because it requires high quality to make it, OR the magic itself
yes, 4th ed, and 3rd ed too, expect you to have magic items commensurate with your level to be effective..which causes serious issues in Dark Sun..however, I honestly don't have a problem with PCs having magic items because I'd assume they'd be made with *psionics*.
A) The people of Athas are not stupid, far, far from it. They are ignorant though, in the majority, there's a difference. The Sorceror Kings lethally enforce laws against knowledge of writing, so they can keep power and stamp out magical knowledge.
B) Athas has far more gems and crystals than other seetings, on average )also means PCs dont' have to be poor by defualt). Please note as I've said elsewhere, obsidian is an amazing weapon material..if you could get rid of it's flaws (it's much harder than steel, takes an edge sharper than a razor)
C) Psionics is very common, most humanoids have some minor degree of it, often not combat worthy though. Wealthier folk attend schools that teach psionics, where permitted and can afford (usually only nobles, merchants etc)
So..what facet of psionics would be valuable on Athas in general?
Psionic crafting!
Imagine being able to psionically remove the flaws from obsidian...harden bone til it's storng as bronze...etc (like we can now make transparent aluminium, cermaics with the tensile strength of steel etc)
Such folk would be too valuable to harm, thus, if you are a slave or "freeman", having such skills would be crucial, that's the kind of stuff that sets up small trading families (not trading Houses I mean your small "Mon and pop" operations")
Each slave village would have a handful of such folk, crucial to letting them exist. Cities would have prized slaves or freemen too useful to the economy for templars to harass too much.
Darwinism in trade! ;)
metal is still better as it can be moulded precisely and doesn't require all this psionic work by rare individuals. the local psionic knifemaker's stuff can only be repaired/sharpened by HIM as it takes a specific psionic power, unlike steel.
E) Templars have extensive libraries on magical research. This means they should have tons of magic items.
Just about every templar in my games of 5th level or above, has armour that negates heat exhaustion on most days, thus they do wear heavy armour (if they wish to), making them stand out and show their king's power.
of course, stealing such armour = very very slow death penalty...
Similalry, with so much psionics, you'd have many psionically enchanted items.
thus at the moment I'm just letting my players have standard 4th ed magical items, they are playing nobles, so it fits well. But other situaitons/characters would be different, but heck, Athas is a challenge ;)
Personally I'd just be extremely stingy on METAL items, that's all, and throw in a few rare beasties with some form of damage reduction that requires metal to bypass, braxat have that for sure that's one of their infamous abilities (like 5/metal)
to add flavour to your games, you could imagine that certain people, crafters, psionic schools are known for making specific forms of enchantment
see,here's the thing about Athas:
there is NO free discourse of knowledge!!
knowledge is power..most folk are ignorant, too damn scared ot leave their local area (for good reason!)..thus, knowledge isn't shared, trade secrets are absolute musts...which also explains why Athasian bards (spies/assassins) are so important.
You can make it an adventure for characters ot get items, knowing that say, Hammanu or Urik's templars make enchanted axes...the School of the Way in Tyr makes defencive necklaces, etc.
Because players can afford lots of magical items with the appropriate bonuses to hit for their level, especially with the reduced magic item rules proposed by the original poster? :rolleyes
See above. Based on the reduced magic item parcels, its probably not a bad assumption that a back up weapon will be of drastically reduced quality. Also, no, it would not just be more difficult. It would eventually become virtually impossible. Eventually a weapon grants a +6 bonus to hit. Even with those +6 bonus to hit weapons, characters tend to have about a 50% chance of hitting enemies of the same level. Taking a -6 penalty to hit because your weapon just broke isn't something just being more difficult to hit, its having your chance to hit reduced to 20%. At that point in time, your character has become effectively worthless to the encounter.
No, what I said is correct. If your character has a 5% chance of taking a -6 penalty to hit, for the rest of an encounter, with every attack, it is impossible to play that character effectively. A player is better off avoiding a weapons based character, and choosing to play an implement wielding character who will never have to suffer this drastic penalty.
At high levels, no, its not realistically possible to carry a large number of back up weapons. Likewise, without any rules as to when a weapon is broken until, it is not just a "noticeable set-back" that a weapon is lost (forever). Being forced to take a 5% chance to take -6 penalty to hit until the end of an encounter with every attack is enough of a reason not to play this character already. The additional penalty of the loss of gold a character effectively suffers every time a character rolls that 5% chance cements the deal. There is no reason to play a weapons based character under those conditions.
Little support? Ok.
Why don't you go on the char-op boards and ask them, "between the choice of playing a melee based character who suffers a -6 penalty to hit until the end of an encounter on any natural roll of a 1, and looses his magical weapon forever (meaning the loss of gold your character suffers), or a implement based character who still pretty much plays as per the RAW, which character would you prefer to play?" See what they say. Nobody is going to want to play a weapons based character under those conditions.
I don't see how keeping a backup weapon that is within 1 or 2 would be that difficult. Have a +4 mainhand? Carry a +2 on your back.
Also, by the time a player has hit a level where theyare carrying around a +4 or higher weapon, they should also have the resources to purchase a metal weapon. The lack of metal weapons is really only a challenge until about mid-paragon.
Sidenote: (forever) isn't forever with mend item and /or disenchant item
1) The term "Edges" never appears in the rules you just quoted.
2) The rules you just quoted further give reasons why your suggestion that a weapon simply breaks on a 1 is a TERRIBLE idea without significant further readjustment to the rules.
Re-read what you quoted. The word edges doesn't even appear.
I didn't quote the section of the OP regarding Edges, I only quoted the portion pertaining to the Low-Magic. In the OP this is found.
Edges
Each time a character gain a feat, he also take an
Edge. Each type must be choosed before stacking
another layer, so +2 will begin at level 6, +3 at
level 11 and +5 at level 21.
Note: Only the higher bonus between an Edge and
a magic item apply.
Natural Armor: +1 to AC
Resilience: +1 to Will, Reflex & Fortitude
Accuracy: +1 to Attack and damage rolls
Now consider the effect this will have shoring up those massive penalties you might face if your primary weapon breaks? If you pick accuracy every time you can, you should be able to use a mundane item with relative proficiency even at higher levels.
It means exactly what I think it does. It means a 5% chance of taking a -6 penalty to hit until the end of an encounter, thus having your chance to hit reduced to 20% per attack.
Bologna. The classes are already balanced against each other. They are already given different challenges, hurdles, and playstyles, which result in them being balanced against each other. Just adding in a 5% chance, on every attack, to take a -6 penalty to hit with weapons until the end of the encounter, while leaving casters virtually the same, isn't giving two different classes different challenges, hurdles, and playstyles. Its nerfing one class into worthlessness.
weapon breakage by itself might have that effect, but considering a players options in RAW combined with the suggestions in the OP, a character with a broken weapon will be able to contribute to an encounter. Yes, it will be a set back, but it won't be the devastating event you describe it to be.
What a horribly inaccurate conclusion.
When you break a goblet, door, or locked chest, you don't loose all of its magical enchantments and the +6 bonus to hit that your character needs in order to mathematically stay viable as a character.
Even if that were true, it doesn't change the fact that if an item is made of a material that can be broken if abused, and the player puts stress on the item, the item should eventually break.
I didn't quote the section of the OP regarding Edges, I only quoted the portion pertaining to the Low-Magic. In the OP this is found.
Ah. Those edges. Yes, that would make weapon breakage a lot more workable.
Even if that were true, it doesn't change the fact that if an item is made of a material that can be broken if abused, and the player puts stress on the item, the item should eventually break.
This I don't agree with. The first consideration should be how the rules work as a game. The second consideration should be simulation. Ultimately, if the rules for an item made out of a martial that can be broken easily leads to an unbalanced game, they should not be included.
That said, I certainly hope that the developers do find a way to include such rules in a balanced manner for Dark Sun 4e. I really liked the flavor of weapon breakage in 2e Dark Sun.
This I don't agree with. The first consideration should be how the rules work as a game. The second consideration should be simulation. Ultimately, if the rules for an item made out of a martial that can be broken easily leads to an unbalanced game, they should not be included.
That said, I certainly hope that the developers do find a way to include such rules in a balanced manner for Dark Sun 4e. I really liked the flavor of weapon breakage in 2e Dark Sun.
On this you have me truly confused, tbch.
On the one hand you say that game balance should be king, and that flavor or no flavor, nothing should unbalance the mechanics.
Yet, you go on to say you liked weapon breakage in 2e Dark Sun. Weapon breakage in 2e was no better or worse for the poor S.o.B. who is sans weapon, than it is in 4e. Fists did a d2 in AD&D, and a dagger wasn't any better unless you were a thief and behind the target. Monsters were painfully difficult to hit alot of the time (Tembos...../shudder), and they could hit like a mack truck. A big brawny gladiator could be reduced to worthlessness if his weapons were taken away. I just don't see how a weapon breaking in 2e was all that different from a weapon breaking in 4e.
Also don't forget that in 2e, all weapons that were made with subpar materials had a penalty to their attack and damage. getting a metal weapon upped your damage and accuracy, not just the weapon's survivability.