Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 603 Aug 17, 2009 11:03:41	Ok, odd question time. You've got a "good" preserver with access to a lot of dead-animating magic. At least as of 2e- there seems to be no specific Animate Zombie/Skeleton ritual available to PCs outside of DM fiat. You also have a lot of dead bodies or a bone yard, and the need to animate them for "something." Like dealing with an annoying Defiler, stopping the deforestation of an area, all that kind of stuff. So under the traditional alignment system, would using preserving magic to raise a small (or large, if they really want to make sure the job gets done) undead horde be necessarily an evil act? By the same token, what about the Lich and Death Knight rituals if they are made available somehow? Why I'm asking this is I'm slowly developing a campaign track for Dark Sun which involves a preserver NPC who desires to become an Avangion, but shows few qualms about using undead hordes and similar necromantic rituals of doom. Would she be unable to become an Avangion because of the inherent evilness of using zombies to bolster her living forces, or would something else happen?
#2 elibus Aug 17, 2009 11:32:10	this question largely depends on the answer to the question: What is evil?
#3 greyorm Aug 17, 2009 13:08:05	So under the traditional alignment system, would using preserving magic to raise a small (or large, if they really want to make sure the job gets done) undead horde be necessarily an evil act? In 3rd edition I'm fairly certain the spells to create zombies/skeletons/etc. fall under the Evil domain and are thus considered acts of evil when cast, regardless of by whom or for what purpose.
#4 elibus Aug 17, 2009 13:51:04	In 3rd edition I'm fairly certain the spells to create zombies/skeletons/etc. fall under the Evil domain and are thus considered acts of evil when cast, regardless of by whom or for what purpose. This is true, but there were also a few supplements and a very in depth dragon article that dealt with necromancer's that were good or neutral, and removed a large number of those restrictions to allow players to play "grey" or "white" necrolords.
#5 throkat Aug 17, 2009 14:21:36	Preservers don't have to be good, so having a bunch of undead around isn't a problem. A double-check of Dragon Kings shows you don't have to be good to be an avangion, either. However, while you could probably surround yourself with undead all you like, you probably can't be undead yourself. Dregoth cannot advance his metamorphosis because of his kaisharga state, so the same probably goes for avangions as well.
#6 603 Aug 17, 2009 14:51:46	Preservers don't have to be good, so having a bunch of undead around isn't a problem. A double-check of Dragon Kings shows you don't have to be good to be an avangion, either. However, while you could probably surround yourself with undead all you like, you probably can't be undead yourself. Dregoth cannot advance his metamorphosis because of his kaisharga state, so the same probably goes for avangions as well. Odd. I could've sworn I read that an Avangion had to be good, but I can't find it in Defilers & Preservers or Dragon Kings. All I can find is that its aura negatively affects evil creatures, which would certainly be odd if an Avagnion itself was evil.
#7 flip Aug 18, 2009 10:33:01	Avangions are pushed in that direction, yes ... but that doesn't mean preservers are. There's nothing good about preserving, in and of itself. You're choosing not to be destructive when using your magic, but that doesn't mean anything about how you're going to interact with other sentient beings, it just means you don't want to wander around leaving a huge swath of destruction around you. I invite you to read Veiled Alliance, (especially in today's environment) and convince me that the VA is a good organization ... it's not. It basically a terrorist network for preservers.