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Primal versus Primordial

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
buckethead111
Jun 11, 2012 13:31:50 I will make this as short and sweet as possible. Over a year ago we began a DarkSun campaign and part of the campaign involves returning the God's to Athas.    We are a six player campaign. We play full group during the summer and during the winter we do duos or something else becaue our Winter Campaign setting is in the Nentir Valley. After the initial campaign run (we ran the Marauders campaign)last summer, I split up and ran some duos for a while. The two mul fighters discovered a hidden temple to Moradin, buried beneath Kled. The druid and eladrin barbarian (I know - who makes an eladrin barbarian) went to Shault and found a hidden temple of Corellon (and left the piece of the crown from the marauders campaign in the care of an avatar of Corellon for safe keeping.) My cleric and ardent traveled UnderTyr, found the temple of the Raven Queen and established helped establish her priesthood and the militant order to protect the priesthood.

The group is now back together and getting ready to embark on a mission (they don't know too many details yet so I will leave them out of here incase they stumble upon this) to restore druidic magic to Athas that can heal the planet AND protect it from further defiling by masters of the arcane. The theory is there needs to be a balance between divine, primal and primodial powers. I can live with individuality in our characters - I mean that's the fun of developing your character.  For example the ardent had a chance to receive a rare magical item on Athas but refused because the Avatar of the Raven Queen offered it to him and he believes all truth can be found in studying the signs from the stars, not from some creature trying to pretend to be an aspect of some being claiming to be a goddess. Cool. That makes the play more fun and more interesting. My druid and barbarian refuse to accept Corellon as their diety (the druid is an elf) because he's never done anything for them.  He just happens to want them to do what they want to do anyways so they are going with his directions to help restore Athas to a verdant world once more.

The problem is that the players are arguing that the orimal spirits have kicked the gods and primordials out of Athas (and other campaign settings) and I am so flipping confused by the talk that I can't really get a grasp on it.  The way I read Athas, the primordials kicked the God's butts (not in my campaign setting - in my setting the God's left to spare Athas from total destruction if they battled the primordials). Last I knew primal meant spirits of that world, related to life that exists on the world and primordial refers to the characteristics of nature, earth, fire, wind etc...that can exist with out carbon based life forms.  In my mind the primal spirits and divine spirits all center around the "life" of each campaign setting.  Arcane is usually just a power that manipulates mystical energies, but on Athas this can be augmented by defiling the land to gain even more energy - this seems like a problem for both primal and divine beings alike, but also seems like something that wouldn't bother the primordials, but would infact help there cause because they don't gain their power from the living. Anyway I am trying to figure this out so I don't totally screw everyone up. They all really like the plot and the adventure but I am getingt frustrated with the "who's in power" aspects of Athas.

I am whole-heartedly a believer that the DM makes the world, but I am trying to keep as much aligned as I can to help the players.

#2
FearOfTheDark
Jun 11, 2012 19:08:05 The premise of Dark Sun is that there are no gods/divine classes. The gods lost the war against the primordials. They are dead/forgotten.

Hope this helps.
#3
DoctorNecrotic
Jun 11, 2012 19:15:24 Well, the Gods are silent. In my 2e fluffed game, there are no primordials (Well, the element lords exist) and the Gods fell dead when the Green Age fell into the descent into its current state. A similar concept was translated into 4E's version. No matter, I have some questions in hopes of inspiring some good campaign ideas. What motivates the return of Gods and whatnot? Is there a reason why they return? Where do they come from? Are they from Athas? How does this impact the primordials that have taken hold since the Gods' fall?
#4
NinjaDog
Jun 11, 2012 20:58:01 Sounds like you know what you're doing and your terminology is correct. Would the players wind up as wielders of a divine power source? You can always use the Runepriest as a vehicle for incorporating lost, silent or dead gods.
#5
buckethead111
Jun 11, 2012 21:49:53 My premise was that because athas lies so close to the plane of elemental chaos the Gods knew that to win the war would totally destroy Athas. Though many died, several chose to remove themselves from athas altogether. Three of them left a spark behind so that when the time was right they could return and reestablish divine piwer, a power that is needed to protect the land and its people. In the marauders storyline you find a puece of ul-athra's crown. My storyline is that because defiling has turned athas into a waateland, ul-athra is the elemental/primordial with the greatest power. He slumbers now and the goal is to make sure thar,t remains the case. The first of the deities to put in an appearance in my storyline wad the raven queen, after all who better to return to athas than she who rules over life and death. I added moradin because of the muls in my campaign and corellon because part of the plot is to heal and protect the land and elves have always been tied to the land and my eladrin in the campaign laments the loss of the feywild and wouldrestore it.
They are now off on an adventure to find a ritual that will sactify any restored land, preventing it from being defiled. It is a long journey and will take them to places like the moon of athas, wellafter the elf maked amends for some poor decision making while in shault.

The gods return now because the strongest of the elementalsslumbers, the sorcerer-kings are weakened with kalaks deathand tyr is ripe for some divine i surgency. Theirpurpose is torestore order andto salvage athas. I really wanted to create my owngods but struggled with how to makeboons and powrrs work. I really wanted the ravenqueen to bethe kestral queen and for moradin to be a godof the muls. The desired impact isn't to eliminate the primordials but to reestablish balnve.
#6
buckethead111
Jun 11, 2012 21:52:32 Ugh...sorry for the typos...i should have broke out the lap top instead of trying to type on the nook
#7
buckethead111
Jun 11, 2012 21:52:37 Ugh...sorry for the typos...i should have broke out the lap top instead of trying to type on the nook
#8
NinjaDog
Jun 12, 2012 12:51:28 Sounds like an awesome campaign idea! I'd play it.
#9
Pennarin
Jun 17, 2012 14:07:45 In regular D&D the primal spirits limited the gods' interactions with the world after they had won their conflict with the primordials. The same could be said of Athas, but limiting the primordials' interactions.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 buckethead111 Jun 11, 2012 13:31:50	I will make this as short and sweet as possible. Over a year ago we began a DarkSun campaign and part of the campaign involves returning the God's to Athas. We are a six player campaign. We play full group during the summer and during the winter we do duos or something else becaue our Winter Campaign setting is in the Nentir Valley. After the initial campaign run (we ran the Marauders campaign)last summer, I split up and ran some duos for a while. The two mul fighters discovered a hidden temple to Moradin, buried beneath Kled. The druid and eladrin barbarian (I know - who makes an eladrin barbarian) went to Shault and found a hidden temple of Corellon (and left the piece of the crown from the marauders campaign in the care of an avatar of Corellon for safe keeping.) My cleric and ardent traveled UnderTyr, found the temple of the Raven Queen and established helped establish her priesthood and the militant order to protect the priesthood. The group is now back together and getting ready to embark on a mission (they don't know too many details yet so I will leave them out of here incase they stumble upon this) to restore druidic magic to Athas that can heal the planet AND protect it from further defiling by masters of the arcane. The theory is there needs to be a balance between divine, primal and primodial powers. I can live with individuality in our characters - I mean that's the fun of developing your character. For example the ardent had a chance to receive a rare magical item on Athas but refused because the Avatar of the Raven Queen offered it to him and he believes all truth can be found in studying the signs from the stars, not from some creature trying to pretend to be an aspect of some being claiming to be a goddess. Cool. That makes the play more fun and more interesting. My druid and barbarian refuse to accept Corellon as their diety (the druid is an elf) because he's never done anything for them. He just happens to want them to do what they want to do anyways so they are going with his directions to help restore Athas to a verdant world once more. The problem is that the players are arguing that the orimal spirits have kicked the gods and primordials out of Athas (and other campaign settings) and I am so flipping confused by the talk that I can't really get a grasp on it. The way I read Athas, the primordials kicked the God's butts (not in my campaign setting - in my setting the God's left to spare Athas from total destruction if they battled the primordials). Last I knew primal meant spirits of that world, related to life that exists on the world and primordial refers to the characteristics of nature, earth, fire, wind etc...that can exist with out carbon based life forms. In my mind the primal spirits and divine spirits all center around the "life" of each campaign setting. Arcane is usually just a power that manipulates mystical energies, but on Athas this can be augmented by defiling the land to gain even more energy - this seems like a problem for both primal and divine beings alike, but also seems like something that wouldn't bother the primordials, but would infact help there cause because they don't gain their power from the living. Anyway I am trying to figure this out so I don't totally screw everyone up. They all really like the plot and the adventure but I am getingt frustrated with the "who's in power" aspects of Athas. I am whole-heartedly a believer that the DM makes the world, but I am trying to keep as much aligned as I can to help the players.
#2 FearOfTheDark Jun 11, 2012 19:08:05	The premise of Dark Sun is that there are no gods/divine classes. The gods lost the war against the primordials. They are dead/forgotten. Hope this helps.
#3 DoctorNecrotic Jun 11, 2012 19:15:24	Well, the Gods are silent. In my 2e fluffed game, there are no primordials (Well, the element lords exist) and the Gods fell dead when the Green Age fell into the descent into its current state. A similar concept was translated into 4E's version. No matter, I have some questions in hopes of inspiring some good campaign ideas. What motivates the return of Gods and whatnot? Is there a reason why they return? Where do they come from? Are they from Athas? How does this impact the primordials that have taken hold since the Gods' fall?
#4 NinjaDog Jun 11, 2012 20:58:01	Sounds like you know what you're doing and your terminology is correct. Would the players wind up as wielders of a divine power source? You can always use the Runepriest as a vehicle for incorporating lost, silent or dead gods.
#5 buckethead111 Jun 11, 2012 21:49:53	My premise was that because athas lies so close to the plane of elemental chaos the Gods knew that to win the war would totally destroy Athas. Though many died, several chose to remove themselves from athas altogether. Three of them left a spark behind so that when the time was right they could return and reestablish divine piwer, a power that is needed to protect the land and its people. In the marauders storyline you find a puece of ul-athra's crown. My storyline is that because defiling has turned athas into a waateland, ul-athra is the elemental/primordial with the greatest power. He slumbers now and the goal is to make sure thar,t remains the case. The first of the deities to put in an appearance in my storyline wad the raven queen, after all who better to return to athas than she who rules over life and death. I added moradin because of the muls in my campaign and corellon because part of the plot is to heal and protect the land and elves have always been tied to the land and my eladrin in the campaign laments the loss of the feywild and wouldrestore it. They are now off on an adventure to find a ritual that will sactify any restored land, preventing it from being defiled. It is a long journey and will take them to places like the moon of athas, wellafter the elf maked amends for some poor decision making while in shault. The gods return now because the strongest of the elementalsslumbers, the sorcerer-kings are weakened with kalaks deathand tyr is ripe for some divine i surgency. Theirpurpose is torestore order andto salvage athas. I really wanted to create my owngods but struggled with how to makeboons and powrrs work. I really wanted the ravenqueen to bethe kestral queen and for moradin to be a godof the muls. The desired impact isn't to eliminate the primordials but to reestablish balnve.
#6 buckethead111 Jun 11, 2012 21:52:32	Ugh...sorry for the typos...i should have broke out the lap top instead of trying to type on the nook
#7 buckethead111 Jun 11, 2012 21:52:37	Ugh...sorry for the typos...i should have broke out the lap top instead of trying to type on the nook
#8 NinjaDog Jun 12, 2012 12:51:28	Sounds like an awesome campaign idea! I'd play it.
#9 Pennarin Jun 17, 2012 14:07:45	In regular D&D the primal spirits limited the gods' interactions with the world after they had won their conflict with the primordials. The same could be said of Athas, but limiting the primordials' interactions.