Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Pennarin Sep 15, 2009 16:16:42	The First Boxed Set (2e) said certain monsters (and I really mean monstery stuff) had spellcasting abilities - I think they called them spell-like abilities then - and they all generated defiling effects when used. That was a crappy idea, IMO. What is your opinion?
#2 big_goon Sep 15, 2009 16:41:45	The First Boxed Set (2e) said certain monsters (and I really mean monstery stuff) had spellcasting abilities - I think they called them spell-like abilities then - and they all generated defiling effects when used. Unless, of course, they were monsters that were concerned about the life of Athas - and used preserving magic. HAHAHA - ohh... that brought a single tear to my eye.   No really, if it looks like a spell and smells like a spell... why shouldn't it follow the laws of physics (or arcana) like everything else? Anything else would be kind of unrealistic. Do you have a good example where this is the case, where you really hate the 2e rules?
#3 phoenix_m Sep 15, 2009 17:16:27	If the beasty has a greater then animal intelligence (as it should unless defined as a spell-like ability) then I would change the ruling based on the creatures habits and maybe alignment.  Nightmare Beast = Defile (in a BIG way), something more in tune with nature would preserve. Always go with "Rule Zero" Pen.  If something doesn't feel right to your views of the game, alter or do away with them.
#4 Pennarin Sep 15, 2009 17:25:58	If a 2e creature had a bunch of spell-like abilities, they all caused defiling. In 4e monsters don't necessarily train as wizards or some such nonsense, they rather have "powers" that can be interpreted as magical or not. One of the human "monsters", as found in the 4e MM1, is clearly a wizard yet doesn't have Arcane as a keyword for its various powers. Dark Spiders, since even 2e they were said to actually be wizards, will be able to defile.
#5 schizoidray Sep 15, 2009 18:41:38	It is my understanding that arcane magic defiles the land, and it takes someone (one who cares/is capable of learning) effort to preserve. That would mean that any creature using an arcane ability would naturally defile unless it had the mental faculty to know the difference.There are other forms of "spell-like abilities" that could draw their power from an elemental or psionic source (more commonly psionic). I know that in 4E, monsters have abilities which may or may not be considered "magic", but if it can throw something like a fireball at you or teleport, chances are its magical and would defile a bit of the surrounding soil.
#6 Pennarin Sep 15, 2009 19:37:09	But that's the thing: If in FR you are in a zone that blocks Weave access, a monster able to fling a fireball will still be able to, since the monster is not marketed as, say, a Human Wizard, thus that fireball is not using the Arcane power source, thus the Weave, thus the monster is able to use it. Technically, the Human Wizard is also immune to this Weave disruption because none of its powers have the Arcane power source, albeit DMs would surely include the Human Wizard in its list of those affected... Just saying that this small bit should be stricken from all the monster entries, if somehow someone wanted to make it a reality in 4e. Dark Spiders learn arcane magic just like humans do, thus should be able to preserver or defile, but a Tembo using some weird ability should not defile when using it. That Tembo did not learn arcane magic, nor was it gifted - somehow - by Rajaat, with this power. Nha, I thing this whole thread's original purpose might have been moot anyway. Moooo me.
#7 greyorm Sep 15, 2009 22:18:20	Actually, Penn, I rather like the idea of a bunch of monstrous beasts ravaging the barren landscape, running about and defiling. Gives players an extra thing to do: go monster hunting to preserve what little is left! (for either villages or Sorcerer-Kings)