Psionics and Darksun Themes - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Psionics and Darksun Themes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Valdier
Dec 07, 2010 17:32:27 A question I have...

If you are a psionic character, Ardent, Psionicist, Battlemind, etc. You effectively have no encounter powers. This means you are not allowed to have theme encounter powers then, correct? (Making themes kinda suck for Psionic characters).

I don't have my book on hand so please correct me if I am wrong on this.
#2
angelus_obscura
Dec 07, 2010 17:55:10 Nothing is stopping you from having encounter powers. If you choose a theme with encounter attack powers for a psionic class that has at-wills instead of encounter attacks, then you can replace those at-wills for the encounter of the appropriate level. Ie, my psion has the wilder theme, and instead of say burning flux (at 3rd level), I can choose wildfire bolt. Psionic encounter disciplines are basically augmented at-wills that you use per encounter.
#3
modern_iconoclast
Dec 08, 2010 7:42:25 You can also read the multiclass rules for psionic characters in PH3, it has information on what you are looking for. Psionics characters can have theme encounter powers, and can also switch an augmentable at-will for an encounter power from another class through multiclassing.
#4
Bera
Dec 10, 2010 1:09:55 If you interpret the rules strictly, Psions, Ardents and Battleminds might only be technically allowed to take Noble Adept powers.

A looser (and probably better) interpretation of the rules is to pretend theme power selection works like multiclass power swaps, pointed out above. Those character'd lost a few Power Points and an at-will power to nab an encounter power.

It's not 100% clear in the rules though (unless you're swapping in Noble Adept powers), so reasonable people could interpret this differently.
#5
Tectuktitlay
Dec 11, 2010 15:24:33
A question I have...

If you are a psionic character, Ardent, Psionicist, Battlemind, etc. You effectively have no encounter powers. This means you are not allowed to have theme encounter powers then, correct? (Making themes kinda suck for Psionic characters).

I don't have my book on hand so please correct me if I am wrong on this.

I will gladly correct you. You are wrong. :D The relevant text under psionic augmentation is VERY clear:

...you don’t start with any encounter attack powers from your class.

It says nothing whatsoever about gaining encounter attack powers from elsewhere, only from your class.

As for replacement encounter powers, well, yes, that's a different story. No, you cannot replace an at-will with an encounter power of the same level. The themes section specifies that a power must be replaced with a power of the same type (i.e. at-will attack for at-will attack, encounter attack for encounter attack, utility for utility, etc).

So, yes, only the Noble Adept gets to replace its psionic at-will power selections at higher levels. You still get to replace utilities and dailies.

So, yes, non-Noble Adept themes are not as optimal for a psionic augmentation class, but ONLY if you absolutely WANT an encounter attack power from that theme. I was myself hoping for another psionic theme beyond Noble Adept (like, oh, say, Wilder?!?, which should have had a psionic at-will attack power AND an encounter attack power choice at each appropriate level, IMO).

You still get your starting encounter attack power, and full access to utilities and dailies. Moreover, if you use a feat to replace a psionic at-will with an encounter attack power from another class, you can replace that encounter attack power with a theme power, since you are exchanging an encounter attack power of your class with an encounter attack power from your theme, which is entirely valid.
#6
tashalatora
Dec 12, 2010 19:02:55 Tectuktitlay, I agree with your rules interpretation as correct, but as a DM I'd have no problem letting a character exchange an encounter power for an at-will augmentable with power points.
The rules imply they are of equal value. It also keeps the spirit of the rules' intent for themes.
#7
Tectuktitlay
Dec 13, 2010 8:59:41
Tectuktitlay, I agree with your rules interpretation as correct, but as a DM I'd have no problem letting a character exchange an encounter power for an at-will augmentable with power points.
The rules imply they are of equal value. It also keeps the spirit of the rules' intent for themes.

Oh, I'd also allow it as DM. No problem whatsoever with that exchange. :D

#8
awaken_D_M_golem
Dec 14, 2010 16:56:43
You can also read the multiclass rules for psionic characters in PH3, it has information on what you are looking for. Psionics characters can have theme encounter powers, and can also switch an augmentable at-will for an encounter power from another class through multiclassing.

... at the very end of the Feats section, in PHB3.

Don't forget the slightly wonky Powerpoint change too.
Swapping a Psi At-will for an Encounter requires
ditching 2, 4 or 6 powerpoints relative to the level of the power.

But themes that have a powerpoint based power, do the swap differently.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Valdier Dec 07, 2010 17:32:27	A question I have... If you are a psionic character, Ardent, Psionicist, Battlemind, etc. You effectively have no encounter powers. This means you are not allowed to have theme encounter powers then, correct? (Making themes kinda suck for Psionic characters). I don't have my book on hand so please correct me if I am wrong on this.
#2 angelus_obscura Dec 07, 2010 17:55:10	Nothing is stopping you from having encounter powers. If you choose a theme with encounter attack powers for a psionic class that has at-wills instead of encounter attacks, then you can replace those at-wills for the encounter of the appropriate level. Ie, my psion has the wilder theme, and instead of say burning flux (at 3rd level), I can choose wildfire bolt. Psionic encounter disciplines are basically augmented at-wills that you use per encounter.
#3 modern_iconoclast Dec 08, 2010 7:42:25	You can also read the multiclass rules for psionic characters in PH3, it has information on what you are looking for. Psionics characters can have theme encounter powers, and can also switch an augmentable at-will for an encounter power from another class through multiclassing.
#4 Bera Dec 10, 2010 1:09:55	If you interpret the rules strictly, Psions, Ardents and Battleminds might only be technically allowed to take Noble Adept powers. A looser (and probably better) interpretation of the rules is to pretend theme power selection works like multiclass power swaps, pointed out above. Those character'd lost a few Power Points and an at-will power to nab an encounter power. It's not 100% clear in the rules though (unless you're swapping in Noble Adept powers), so reasonable people could interpret this differently.
#5 Tectuktitlay Dec 11, 2010 15:24:33	A question I have... If you are a psionic character, Ardent, Psionicist, Battlemind, etc. You effectively have no encounter powers. This means you are not allowed to have theme encounter powers then, correct? (Making themes kinda suck for Psionic characters). I don't have my book on hand so please correct me if I am wrong on this. I will gladly correct you. You are wrong. :D The relevant text under psionic augmentation is VERY clear: ...you don’t start with any encounter attack powers from your class. It says nothing whatsoever about gaining encounter attack powers from elsewhere, only from your class. As for replacement encounter powers, well, yes, that's a different story. No, you cannot replace an at-will with an encounter power of the same level. The themes section specifies that a power must be replaced with a power of the same type (i.e. at-will attack for at-will attack, encounter attack for encounter attack, utility for utility, etc). So, yes, only the Noble Adept gets to replace its psionic at-will power selections at higher levels. You still get to replace utilities and dailies. So, yes, non-Noble Adept themes are not as optimal for a psionic augmentation class, but ONLY if you absolutely WANT an encounter attack power from that theme. I was myself hoping for another psionic theme beyond Noble Adept (like, oh, say, Wilder?!?, which should have had a psionic at-will attack power AND an encounter attack power choice at each appropriate level, IMO). You still get your starting encounter attack power, and full access to utilities and dailies. Moreover, if you use a feat to replace a psionic at-will with an encounter attack power from another class, you can replace that encounter attack power with a theme power, since you are exchanging an encounter attack power of your class with an encounter attack power from your theme, which is entirely valid.
#6 tashalatora Dec 12, 2010 19:02:55	Tectuktitlay, I agree with your rules interpretation as correct, but as a DM I'd have no problem letting a character exchange an encounter power for an at-will augmentable with power points. The rules imply they are of equal value. It also keeps the spirit of the rules' intent for themes.
#7 Tectuktitlay Dec 13, 2010 8:59:41	Tectuktitlay, I agree with your rules interpretation as correct, but as a DM I'd have no problem letting a character exchange an encounter power for an at-will augmentable with power points. The rules imply they are of equal value. It also keeps the spirit of the rules' intent for themes. Oh, I'd also allow it as DM. No problem whatsoever with that exchange. :D
#8 awaken_D_M_golem Dec 14, 2010 16:56:43	You can also read the multiclass rules for psionic characters in PH3, it has information on what you are looking for. Psionics characters can have theme encounter powers, and can also switch an augmentable at-will for an encounter power from another class through multiclassing. ... at the very end of the Feats section, in PHB3. Don't forget the slightly wonky Powerpoint change too. Swapping a Psi At-will for an Encounter requires ditching 2, 4 or 6 powerpoints relative to the level of the power. But themes that have a powerpoint based power, do the swap differently.