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Question About Theme Powers and Spellbooks

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
wyrdfate
Oct 16, 2010 14:37:58 So my question is, whenever a wizard picks a utility power and they get two, could they realistically pick one of their theme powers as one of the two? Skill powers, in the builder, seem to get grouped in with their regular powers even though they don't seem to have anything to do with wizard abilities at times. Would theme powers function in the same way?
#2
dybrarh
Oct 16, 2010 19:46:35
The Spellbook class feature specifically refers to spells, which is generally what arcane powers are called. Unfortunately, the term "spell" itself is not defined mechanically anywhere, but it is referred to in the description of each arcane class (e.g. sorcerer: "Like other arcane classes' powers, your powers are called spells." Swordmage: "Your powers are also known as spells." Wizard: "Your arcane powers are called spells..."). The bolded part in the sorcerer quote may provide some further insight as it specifically refers to class powers, which theme powers naturally aren't. Again, though, it's hard to substantiate this as far as the mechanics are concerned.

The most that can be said is that you can at best only add arcane theme powers to your spellbook, i.e. those from the templar and veiled alliance themes; a martial, primal, or psionic power would not be considered a spell and thus not qualify. The DM has the final say here, though, as the rules provide but little guidance in the matter.

(Skill powers, for the same reason given above, cannot be put into the spellbook either, as they do not possess the Arcane keyword.)
#3
naxel
Oct 17, 2010 3:33:24 Pretty much what DybrarH said. Personally I would allow any daily attack or utility power with the arcane keyword into a spellbook
#4
Bera
Oct 17, 2010 10:05:36 There's probably not much harm in letting a wizard put Templar or Veiled Alliance powers into a spellbook.
#5
LarsVolta
May 18, 2011 7:29:16 Hi, I'm just building a character for a Dark Sun campaign starting at level 13. The concept is a Human Dune Trader Alchemist. The imortant point about him is the dune trader theme, so I want to take all the powers from there. I'm going for mage as the class, because I want him to use spells in the most dire situations. He's well aware of how magic is seen on Athas and tries to avoid it. I want to equip him well with alchemical items, so there are a few rounds in a standard combat before he has to use his mage powers. If they are already winning, he can try to hit with his quarterstaff, else he have to use magic.

Now, I have a question, and this is why I bump this thread after a few month :-) The character builder allows me, to trade one of the two powers I get at a level for a Dune Trader power (Encounter, Utility, Daily). I know the builder is no rule source, and I'm not sure if this is legal, or if I have to trade both powers of that level.

If it is legal, it implies the next question: Can I still prepare one of the two powers after each extended rest, or have I only to prepare the arcane powers. I mean, the Dune Trader powers are martial, so there is not much sense in preparing them, is there? (Maybe he is such an bad fighter, that he has every morning to recall waht he have to do, to use his staff...)

Sorry, if this question is already answered somewhere else, but I haven't found an answer for the last two weeks.

I have my character here, to show you, what the character builder allows me to do:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Human, Mage, Enigmatic Mage
School: Evocation School
School: Illusion School
Expert Mage Option: Evocation School Expert
Master Mage Option: Evocation School Master
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Dark Sun
Forked Tongue - Merchant/Trader (Endurance class skill)
Theme: Dune Trader

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 17, DEX 11, INT 21, WIS 15, CHA 14

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 16, WIS 14, CHA 13

AC: 25 Fort: 25 Ref: 28 Will: 26
HP: 75 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 18

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +16, Diplomacy +13, Endurance +16, History +16, Insight +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Athletics +8, Bluff +13, Dungeoneering +11, Heal +11, Intimidate +13, Nature +11, Perception +11, Religion +14, Stealth +14, Streetwise +11, Thievery +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Dune Trader Feature: Quick Formation
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Wizard Utility: Light
Wizard Utility: Mage Hand
Wizard Utility: Prestidigitation
Wild Talent Cantrip: Telekinetic Grasp
: Arcane Defiling
Wizard Attack 1: Fountain of Flame
Wizard Attack 1: Phantom Chasm
Wizard Attack 1: Burning Hands
Wizard Attack 1: Illusory Obstacles
Wizard Attack 1: Arc Lightning
Wizard Attack 1: Phantasmal Assault
Wizard Attack 1: Magic Missile
Dune Trader Utility 2: Slick Negotiator
Wizard Utility 2: Shield
Wizard Attack 3: Shock Sphere
Wizard Attack 3: Maze of Mirrors
Dune Trader Attack 3: Delaying Strike
Wizard Attack 5: Fireball
Dune Trader Attack 5: Blunt Force Strike
Wizard Utility 6: Dimension Door
Dune Trader Utility 6: Deft Avoidance
Wizard Attack 7: Lightning Bolt
Dune Trader Attack 7: Sly Gambit
Wizard Attack 9: Ice Storm
Dune Trader Attack 9: Hounding Presence
Wizard Utility 10: Blur
Dune Trader Utility 10: Command Decision
Enigmatic Mage Attack 11: Kelgore's Undeniable Fire
Enigmatic Mage Utility 11: Enigmatic Spellcasting
Enigmatic Mage Utility 12: Kelgore's Well of Power
Wizard Attack 13: Twisting Lightning

FEATS
Level 1: Alchemist
Level 1: Bardic Ritualist
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 2: Staff Expertise
Level 4: Improved Defenses
Level 6: Disciple of Stone
Level 8: Weapon Focus (Staff)
Level 10: Bard of All Trades
Level 11: Hafted Defense
Level 12: Heat Adaptation

ITEMS
Ritual Book
Traveler's Chant
Clearwater Solution
Withering Quarterstaff +3 x1
Elven Cloak +3 x1
Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) of Cleansing +3 x1
Adventurer's Kit
Climber's Kit
Wagon
Lute
Inix
Belt of Vigor (heroic tier)
Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier)
Linked Portal
Comprehend Language
View Location
Silt Sandals (heroic tier)
Circlet of Second Chances (heroic tier)
====== End ======

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wyrdfate Oct 16, 2010 14:37:58	So my question is, whenever a wizard picks a utility power and they get two, could they realistically pick one of their theme powers as one of the two? Skill powers, in the builder, seem to get grouped in with their regular powers even though they don't seem to have anything to do with wizard abilities at times. Would theme powers function in the same way?
#2 dybrarh Oct 16, 2010 19:46:35	The Spellbook class feature specifically refers to spells, which is generally what arcane powers are called. Unfortunately, the term "spell" itself is not defined mechanically anywhere, but it is referred to in the description of each arcane class (e.g. sorcerer: "Like other arcane classes' powers, your powers are called spells." Swordmage: "Your powers are also known as spells." Wizard: "Your arcane powers are called spells..."). The bolded part in the sorcerer quote may provide some further insight as it specifically refers to class powers, which theme powers naturally aren't. Again, though, it's hard to substantiate this as far as the mechanics are concerned. The most that can be said is that you can at best only add arcane theme powers to your spellbook, i.e. those from the templar and veiled alliance themes; a martial, primal, or psionic power would not be considered a spell and thus not qualify. The DM has the final say here, though, as the rules provide but little guidance in the matter. (Skill powers, for the same reason given above, cannot be put into the spellbook either, as they do not possess the Arcane keyword.)
#3 naxel Oct 17, 2010 3:33:24	Pretty much what DybrarH said. Personally I would allow any daily attack or utility power with the arcane keyword into a spellbook
#4 Bera Oct 17, 2010 10:05:36	There's probably not much harm in letting a wizard put Templar or Veiled Alliance powers into a spellbook.
#5 LarsVolta May 18, 2011 7:29:16	Hi, I'm just building a character for a Dark Sun campaign starting at level 13. The concept is a Human Dune Trader Alchemist. The imortant point about him is the dune trader theme, so I want to take all the powers from there. I'm going for mage as the class, because I want him to use spells in the most dire situations. He's well aware of how magic is seen on Athas and tries to avoid it. I want to equip him well with alchemical items, so there are a few rounds in a standard combat before he has to use his mage powers. If they are already winning, he can try to hit with his quarterstaff, else he have to use magic. Now, I have a question, and this is why I bump this thread after a few month :-) The character builder allows me, to trade one of the two powers I get at a level for a Dune Trader power (Encounter, Utility, Daily). I know the builder is no rule source, and I'm not sure if this is legal, or if I have to trade both powers of that level. If it is legal, it implies the next question: Can I still prepare one of the two powers after each extended rest, or have I only to prepare the arcane powers. I mean, the Dune Trader powers are martial, so there is not much sense in preparing them, is there? (Maybe he is such an bad fighter, that he has every morning to recall waht he have to do, to use his staff...) Sorry, if this question is already answered somewhere else, but I haven't found an answer for the last two weeks. I have my character here, to show you, what the character builder allows me to do: ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Human, Mage, Enigmatic Mage School: Evocation School School: Illusion School Expert Mage Option: Evocation School Expert Master Mage Option: Evocation School Master Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort Dark Sun Forked Tongue - Merchant/Trader (Endurance class skill) Theme: Dune Trader FINAL ABILITY SCORES STR 9, CON 17, DEX 11, INT 21, WIS 15, CHA 14 STARTING ABILITY SCORES STR 8, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 16, WIS 14, CHA 13 AC: 25 Fort: 25 Ref: 28 Will: 26 HP: 75 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 18 TRAINED SKILLS Arcana +16, Diplomacy +13, Endurance +16, History +16, Insight +13 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +9, Athletics +8, Bluff +13, Dungeoneering +11, Heal +11, Intimidate +13, Nature +11, Perception +11, Religion +14, Stealth +14, Streetwise +11, Thievery +9 POWERS Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack Dune Trader Feature: Quick Formation Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort Wizard Utility: Light Wizard Utility: Mage Hand Wizard Utility: Prestidigitation Wild Talent Cantrip: Telekinetic Grasp : Arcane Defiling Wizard Attack 1: Fountain of Flame Wizard Attack 1: Phantom Chasm Wizard Attack 1: Burning Hands Wizard Attack 1: Illusory Obstacles Wizard Attack 1: Arc Lightning Wizard Attack 1: Phantasmal Assault Wizard Attack 1: Magic Missile Dune Trader Utility 2: Slick Negotiator Wizard Utility 2: Shield Wizard Attack 3: Shock Sphere Wizard Attack 3: Maze of Mirrors Dune Trader Attack 3: Delaying Strike Wizard Attack 5: Fireball Dune Trader Attack 5: Blunt Force Strike Wizard Utility 6: Dimension Door Dune Trader Utility 6: Deft Avoidance Wizard Attack 7: Lightning Bolt Dune Trader Attack 7: Sly Gambit Wizard Attack 9: Ice Storm Dune Trader Attack 9: Hounding Presence Wizard Utility 10: Blur Dune Trader Utility 10: Command Decision Enigmatic Mage Attack 11: Kelgore's Undeniable Fire Enigmatic Mage Utility 11: Enigmatic Spellcasting Enigmatic Mage Utility 12: Kelgore's Well of Power Wizard Attack 13: Twisting Lightning FEATS Level 1: Alchemist Level 1: Bardic Ritualist Level 1: Ritual Caster Level 2: Staff Expertise Level 4: Improved Defenses Level 6: Disciple of Stone Level 8: Weapon Focus (Staff) Level 10: Bard of All Trades Level 11: Hafted Defense Level 12: Heat Adaptation ITEMS Ritual Book Traveler's Chant Clearwater Solution Withering Quarterstaff +3 x1 Elven Cloak +3 x1 Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) of Cleansing +3 x1 Adventurer's Kit Climber's Kit Wagon Lute Inix Belt of Vigor (heroic tier) Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier) Linked Portal Comprehend Language View Location Silt Sandals (heroic tier) Circlet of Second Chances (heroic tier) ====== End ======