Kurn (aka old Kurn): which is mostly deserted but is the public face of his kingdom
New Kurn: A verdant paradise sheltered in a canyon/valley, where his subjects (and other natural/primal Athasian creatures) live pretty much self-sufficiently
If the other SK's knew he was taking the avangion path (instead of the draconic transformation), they would immediately ally and rip him and his kingdom to pieces. He's not tough enough to survive that sort of onslaught.
I don't recall any mention of his templars anywhere.
In 4e, seeing as the Templar theme has no alignment restrictions, there's nothing stopping either the Theme or the Warlock pact from being utilised for a servant of Orionis, however the DS Warlock powers have a very evil flavour! Mechanically they're fine, but thematically...meh.
If he did have templars, they'd be more likely to be Fey pact.
Either way (SK Pact or Fey) they'd better be trained in Bluff!
Background would be a very interesting story I'm sure. Especially to explain why an Orionis templar is adventuring ;)
In 4e, seeing as the Templar theme has no alignment restrictions, there's nothing stopping either the Theme or the Warlock pact from being utilised for a servant of Orionis, however the DS Warlock powers have a very evil flavour! Mechanically they're fine, but thematically...meh.
As if the old Templars weren't?
Lessee, they were created by S-Ks using elemental conduits (intertubes?) set up by curious and/or bored and now-extinct creatures in the elemental planes- which were also unavailable to PCs should they set themselves up as S-Ks. They were *all* some form of the 2e Cleric class, and could become better healers than a Water Cleric could ever hope to be. They had some extremely uber social powers, which were arguably better handled by RP and/or social skill rolls than actual powers (and in fact, almost all social powers/abilities/feats are better handled by simple skill rolls and RP than social feats/abilities/powers which ultimately make characters weaker in combat).
Hmm, looks no less a trainwreck than the Ardent from PHB3.
In 4e, seeing as the Templar theme has no alignment restrictions, there's nothing stopping either the Theme or the Warlock pact from being utilised for a servant of Orionis, however the DS Warlock powers have a very evil flavour! Mechanically they're fine, but thematically...meh.
As if the old Templars weren't?
Sorry...weren't what?
Lessee, they were created by S-Ks using elemental conduits (intertubes?) set up by curious and/or bored and now-extinct creatures in the elemental planes- which were also unavailable to PCs should they set themselves up as S-Ks. They were *all* some form of the 2e Cleric class, and could become better healers than a Water Cleric could ever hope to be. They had some extremely uber social powers, which were arguably better handled by RP and/or social skill rolls than actual powers (and in fact, almost all social powers/abilities/feats are better handled by simple skill rolls and RP than social feats/abilities/powers which ultimately make characters weaker in combat).
Hmm, looks no less a trainwreck than the Ardent from PHB3.
Erm, OK, I can hear that you're ranting :P but I'm not sure what you're ranting about?
Evil?
Thematics?
Mechanics?
Which nerve did I step on here?
I was asking for a 2nd ed game actually.
Wait...what?
You're looking for the 2e rules for good-aligned templars?
Now I'm really confused! o.O
If the other SK's knew he was taking the avangion path (instead of the draconic transformation), they would immediately ally and rip him and his kingdom to pieces. He's not tough enough to survive that sort of onslaught.
If they attacked him as a group, then yes.
One on one, I don't think they would have a chance - he is supposed to 30th level after all.
I'm really hoping they do an article on New Kurn and stat out Oronis as he is such an interesting and unique character, as well as detailing Templars of Oronis.
If the other SK's knew he was taking the avangion path (instead of the draconic transformation), they would immediately ally and rip him and his kingdom to pieces. He's not tough enough to survive that sort of onslaught.
If they attacked him as a group, then yes.
One on one, I don't think they would have a chance - he is supposed to 30th level after all.
I'm really hoping they do an article on New Kurn and stat out Oronis as he is such an interesting and unique character, as well as detailing Templars of Oronis.
Rrrr?
I'll have to check my old books, but I didn't think he'd finished the metamorphosis yet.....
"Brazen Gambit" book makes a point of this regarding Hammanu's templars ;)
It would be difficult to be "GOod" aligned in such, but without concepts of ethics and morals, the templarates would dissolve into nightmares very quickly
Consider the Waffen SS. No matter how evil some of 'em were (especially the Totenkopsverband or worse, Dirlewanger's brigade, ick!), in general they had "principles" (ethics) that held them together that made them incredibly deadly enemies
it's stupid to ignore the fact they nearly always inflicted far worse casualities than they recieved just because they were also doing bloody evil stuff, and some units or rather commanders/individuals showed honour.
Lot of the ones in the mass murder units and death camps killed themselves, unable to live with the filth they had been indoctrinated to believe in and what their conscience actually told them, or, the sheer foulness just eroded their minds to destruction as many folk cannot cope with butchery as it is NOT natural for Humans in reality
see "empathy", or the factually based character of the camp commander in "Schindlers's List" who was driven insane by his actions and the horror
Too easy to paint all of them as "monsters", more complex than that. Doesn't mean they didn't deserve to be stopped or killed though as what they were doing or supporting was horrendous. Just means everyone's deserving of "the benefit of the doubt"
One Wermacht Colonel saved about a thousand Jews by hiding them in his own unit, which was an incredibly brave thing to do, as he'd have been lucky to merely be executed for that, high likelyhood of being tortured and/or his family sent to the camps as well.
So, SS = Lawful Evil, with some Neutral Evil or some deluded Lawful Good (like it or not they thought they were doing the "right thing", and some folk got inducted to the SS regardless of their wishes, not exactly an "honour" you could refuse without some kind of "Protection" as otherwise you'd be brutally punished)
Most templars really, would fall into Lawful neutral, Neutral or Lawful Evil classifications, a few in Lawful or Neutral Good, but more neutral Evil than those probably. Hey I kept chaos/law in 4th ed, that is one thing I think they were VERY wrong to leave out.
Sorceror Kings may realize they NEED a few good templars to keep it somewhat clean of corruption or going too far. it's not in their interests to have the templarate being a bunch if lazy, psychotic, stupid nitwits who'd inevitably tear the city apart by their inaction and wrong doing.
Tectuctiklay is maybe mad enough and Abilach-Re lazy/distracted enough however not to keep an eye on things as they should
now, you cna podner how much does the sorceror king KNOW of the will of his own templars? cna he see in their minds?
doubtful, except when needed or it would be sheer overload. maybe he does see though when they request major spells as noted in "Brazen Gambit", *shrug*
could a templar be involved with the Veiled ALliance? why not, stranger things have happened in real life. be hard though if he was of high position due to all the intrigues/spying etc they'd likely do on each other.
Apologies if anyone's offended by "Godwinning" this but it IS a perfect example of "organized evil" in our world
I just remembered that there was a good SK. Knowing this I thought there was a possibility that he would have good templars. Templars normally can not be good which sucks if you want to have a cleric type with access to the cosmos sphere and more than one spell at 4-7 spell range (some clerics in core DS have no spells allowed in that range of spells). Further playing that kind of Templar in DS could lead to a nice change of pace. That was what I was trying to do.
In 4e no worries.
In 2e make it up if you want it there
I don't think there were any canon sources for good-aligned templars in 2e, but seeing as Oronis was a bit of a special case, the rationale is there.
Go for it, have fun, and be prepared to field crazy queries as to why you're not asking this as a 4e question :P
Cheers!
Templars normally can not be good which sucks if you want to have a cleric type with access to the cosmos sphere and more than one spell at 4-7 spell range (some clerics in core DS have no spells allowed in that range of spells).
Sorry, I just read and reread that bit, and HUH? o.O
Templars got the best range of spells in the game, and I played three different elemental clerics in DS 2e (actually, one was para-emelental
)and never had this issue (I remember always bitching that I had too many choices, and had to keep seperate spell lists for recon/battle/spelunking/downtime etc)And there's the DS Cleric's sourcebook (forget the name, had an elemental theme to it) which also had templar stuff in there.
I'm stunned to believe that there were some levels where templars just couldn't choose spells, ESPECIALLY over multiple levels. I may have to unbox my core 2e stuff just to work this out again!
Cheers!