Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gustafae Nov 13, 2010 21:56:36	OK, so I was running a Forgotten Realms game in Waterdeep, and I used the underground cavern made by the old maniac guy with all of the wild energy to teleport my gaming group to Athas.   Now, the main question I have: will an Arcane spellcaster (Artificer) initially use defiling magic or preserving magic? The player says preserving, because she would have no knowledge of the war of chaos, therefore would have no knowledge of being able to bolster her arcane magic. I say that because she is now drawing her arcane magic from Athas, that her magic would initially be defiling, until she found a proper way to cast preserving type arcane spells. What do you guys think? Also, would arcane-based rituals and abilities from magic items from Faerun have a similar affect on plants and allies in Athas? I'm in mid-game, so I would really appreciate a fairly quick answer, if possible. Thanks!
#2 devp Nov 13, 2010 23:44:41	Probably too late, but: in 4E, it seems that you have a choice at any time to delve into defiling, and it seems the way magic works is fundamentally tied into borrowing power from other living things. It's not that defiling is a boost to arcane power, but rather that the outcome of using arcane power at all (recklessly). I think it's fare to say that, after initially trying a spell or two out, arcane spells and rituals will defile/preserve depending on the will of the user. If you want, you could say there's an initial skill challenge where the magic user learns how to adapt spells to Athas, and then learns how to avoid defiling. Generally: I'll defer to the player here. Magic items should probably defer to play will about preserving/defiling, though powerful magical items might be fun if they defile my default.
#3 lord_rock Nov 14, 2010 1:01:14	Depends on how bad you want to screw your artificer... I would say default preserving and allow the artificer to be the only soul in Athas who can't defile... rub that in... a lot.  Make defiling much more cool and make sure all the bad guys use it.  Your Artificer will now be drawn to defiling and have a quest to discover how/why or be a champion of the veiled alliance. There are a lot of "make defiling stronger/better" threads in this forum for good ideas.
#4 DontEatRawHagis Nov 14, 2010 1:57:08	Two Possibilities: Tell your player that she feels a disturbance in the way her power is reacting. Have her do a few arcana checks for her to figure out whats going on. If she doesn't succeed her power is killing the world until she notices, if she does succeed the checks she knows that she is harming the world, she can take precautions and become a preserver. If that doesn't work or its not your style, have an veiled alliance agent sense her power. Any alliance member will probably notice that they are not of this world and give them fair warning for what lies ahead. Don't tell them who he is, just have him say I know what your going through before disappearing into the desert or into a crowd if in a city.
#5 salla Nov 14, 2010 2:02:20	Since you have to do something to gain the power boost of defiling (rather than limiting yourself to not do so), she should be 'preserving' as the default.  She would probably be unaware that she could rip extra power from her surroundings until she saw it in action.
#6 gustafae Nov 14, 2010 2:13:13	Since you have to do something to gain the power boost of defiling (rather than limiting yourself to not do so), she should be 'preserving' as the default.  She would probably be unaware that she could rip extra power from her surroundings until she saw it in action. Yes, this sounds good. Thanks Salla. Thanks for all of your quick(ish) responses!!
#7 Raddu76 Nov 16, 2010 10:13:00	I'm going to have to disagree with the majority here.  Of course I used the 2e paradigms of Defiling/Preserving, which are sort of reversed in 4e.  Part of the magic, if you'll excuse the pun, was the world was devastated by magic.   Many tribes/people will kill you on site if you were a wizard and some tribes are controlled by defilers.  The average person, including those tribes in the wastes didn't really know there was a difference between defilers and preservers, they thought all magic was destructive to their world. Why, if Preserving was the default would this view be prevalent?  It wouldn't. Mainly for this reason, but also if you're bringing characters from another world, which would be more interesting...they just cast magic as normal, or all of a sudden their magic is draining life from their friends because they do not know how to control it?  That second smacks of a plothook to me.  I know I'm late for your game Gustafae, but hopefully there's still a way to make it more believable.
#8 fnuffer Nov 16, 2010 10:28:03	The core of 4e is openness, and creatures are aware of the specifics of any effect they are subject to. Furthermore, the at-will defiling power is now available to the character.  He would know he has the capability to defile, if not immediately, then the first time he uses a daily power. He would probably then be mobbed by angry villagers, but that is a separate issue.
#9 phesic Nov 17, 2010 16:15:38	Wasn't preserving the default in the old books?  In fact defiling came about and there is a monster that is bascially a defiler that was high on the rush of defiling, and after they draw in the energy of the land, they don't use it and turns them into a burning husk.