A skill usually means that you were trained and gained proficiency through practice. Athas does not have your typical Religious atmosphere that other campaigns share. Because there no true gods worshiped there wouldn't be training on divine magic effects.
There could still be training on differing mythologies of the races. Symbols of false gods, superstitious rituals and beliefs.
There could still be training on the evil that is undeath (although unless corpses are animated by casters most people would never encounter undead) Intelligent undead are usually unique to themselves. I feel that it would be plausible to obtain training against the known abilities and powers of common undead, although it would be rare.
The knowledge of the Astral would be blocked, what other knowledge would be obtained in its place? Knowledge of Elemental and Primordial creatures most likely.
How do you feel the Religion Skill Should be modified?
What Rituals that depend on Religion should be blocked? The planar travel ones should not be easy, such magics are difficult even for the Sorcerer Kings. Those rituals that beckon a specific god or specifically state that they draw power from a divine source are also likely targets.
1. While the Religion skill is not all that important any more except maybe for knowledge of cults, the bureaucratic and diplomatic structure of the templerates and maybe a few sages or mystics... there are only a few classes that have access to the Religion, because the divine classes are not available. Thus, the skill is more or less optional for a party...
2. A second option is to replace Religion with something else... like either a survival (e.g. desert?) skill OR a Psionics knowledge skill.
The simplest solution is to let it be. There are several other glaring problems: The skill list will be very skewed, with several skills bordering on essential (Endurance, Athletics, Nature) and some skills being either rare or illegal (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Religion).
I'm curious to see if there's any mention of this in the Campaign Guide. I'm expecting a section on Skill Challenges in Dark Sun (or a Dungeon Article).
As far as rituals, I agree any that pertaining to a specific diety should be excluded, although I could see matching some diety-specific rituals to specific SKs and their templars.
Many Religion rituals can be reflavored rather than being forbidden.
Religion absolutely should not have anything to do with primal spirits. That is covered by the Nature skill, and there is no reason to change it.
I'm with Mithrus. Just replace deities with Sorcerer-Kings, and you're good to go.
Many Religion rituals can be reflavored rather than being forbidden.
Religion absolutely should not have anything to do with primal spirits. That is covered by the Nature skill, and there is no reason to change it.
I just had an inspiration. What if DS keeps the divine power source, and creates a pantheon based on the SKs? Granted, I'm no expert on the lore, so for those more-knowing, which domains would associate with the different SKs? I could see paladins/avengers of specific SKs...
Without taking into consideration what classes have access to religion as a class skill, having religion describe the cultural values that the sorcerer-kings try to enforce makes sense. Why else are there Aztecs-analogs, Chinese-analogs, and Greek-analogs within an area the size of Wyoming, who haven't assimilated into a single culture after centuries? The SKs could have come from different cultures, and caused a religious fear in everyone to maintain those culture by blowing the cook up for making the soup just a little too spicy, ripping the gonue out of a servant with an odd accent, frying a tailor for making a kilt with a rather unique pattern, torturing the family of a guard who greeted a friend with a handshake instead of a hug, dicing an architect for making the buildings a little too square... In time, almost everyone in the city states would be afraid to not follow the cultural norms set by the SKs, and it would take on a religious bent.
Looking at the classes that have access to Religion as a class skill, however, we have the Bard, Monk, Shaman, and Wizard. They could be templars (yes, even the shamans, a few SKs kept druids and elemental priests to tend their farms), but it does kinda make me want to expand Religion beyond "sorcerer king aesthetics."
There are undead to the south. Religion also covers Immortals, which aren't exactly common. Considering the average person wouldn't want to find out that their entire world view is a result of some defiler's whim, and that Immortals aren't the sort of thing your unaverage Athasian would encounter, Religion could also be a sort of madness skill, like the Mythos Knowledge skill in Call of Cthulhu. Calm priests who can explain subtle theological issues are replaced by the crazy wizard shouting at the stars to quit watching him (because he knows they are), the monk who always has a slightly inappropriate emotional response when he isn't catatonic (because he knows your entire worldview is a joke, Kalak doesn't think aprigs are ritually unclean, he just had a dry aprig chop a few centuries ago), the carrion eating shaman (who doesn't want to risk dealing with any undead), and the bard who invokes Tharizdun to make his shows more entertaining (... It is just entertainment, right?)
I just had an inspiration. What if DS keeps the divine power source, and creates a pantheon based on the SKs? Granted, I'm no expert on the lore, so for those more-knowing, which domains would associate with the different SKs? I could see paladins/avengers of specific SKs...
Considering the Devs said one of the seven essential sentences for Dark Sun is: "The gods of Athas are silent. Athas is a world without gods. There are no clerics, no paladins, no prophets or religious orders. In the absence of divine influence, people have turned to other sources of power. Psionic power is well known and widely practiced in Athas, while shamans and druids call upon the primal powers of the world—even though the primal spirits of Athas are often wild and vengeful."
I highly doubt it.
But then again... it's your campaign, do what you feel fits.To me the Religon skill in DS is used to identify the various practices of the Individual SKings. They are closest to Divine beings as one gets to see most of the time. Religons use in identifying certain creatures is also there, but I think in this case also Religon might be useful in remembering the names of particular Templars or roles that Templars have.
I just had an inspiration. What if DS keeps the divine power source, and creates a pantheon based on the SKs? Granted, I'm no expert on the lore, so for those more-knowing, which domains would associate with the different SKs? I could see paladins/avengers of specific SKs...
Considering the Devs said one of the seven essential sentences for Dark Sun is: "The gods of Athas are silent. Athas is a world without gods. There are no clerics, no paladins, no prophets or religious orders. In the absence of divine influence, people have turned to other sources of power. Psionic power is well known and widely practiced in Athas, while shamans and druids call upon the primal powers of the world—even though the primal spirits of Athas are often wild and vengeful."
I highly doubt it.
The original setting stated "the templar is a regimented priest devoted to a single sorcerer-king. Such disciples work within the hierarchy of that particular sorcerer-king's clergy, advancing in power and position. A templar draws his magical energy through his sorcerer-king."
However, since a templar was essentially a new class in itself, normal clerics were forced to worship the elements instead. I still think that the worship of a sorcerer-king should be available to someone wishing to play a character with the divine power source (as it already has been done in my 4e dark sun campaign).
The skill religion can still be used normally, but it can be a bit tricky cause anyone with religion might have a clue as to the origins of the S. Kings and that kind of kills the flavor of the high and mighty Sorceror Kings.
Lets not forget the golden rule the DM has the final word.
Hahah yes, UNLESS you have one of those annoying metagaming people who know way more about the setting than you do and insist at every moment that their knowlege of the subject is correct.
The divine power source doesn't necessarily need deities to exist. It can be tied to beliefs, phylosophies, or principles...some divine practices in Eberron for example are not linked to deities. So it could be the same in DarkSun.
I do not think there will be a massive change about the Religion Skill. Let's use it to know the various ceremonies and rites involving the sorcerer kings and get information about the various beliefs in Athas.
The original setting stated "the templar is a regimented priest devoted to a single sorcerer-king. Such disciples work within the hierarchy of that particular sorcerer-king's clergy, advancing in power and position. A templar draws his magical energy through his sorcerer-king."
However, since a templar was essentially a new class in itself, normal clerics were forced to worship the elements instead. I still think that the worship of a sorcerer-king should be available to someone wishing to play a character with the divine power source (as it already has been done in my 4e dark sun campaign).
And there is nothing wrong with that for your game. In fact, even though the default is that there is no Divine power source, it is very easily slipped back in, as you yourself can attest. Avengers, clerics, invokers, and paladins can all be played, changing the fluff how you will. The designers are just not going to support that option at this time, and maybe never at all. There is to be a new warlock pact which can tie a character to a sorcerer-king, and there are themes such as templar to do so as well. I am seeing many options that can be used in different forms in order to do such things and I will be very interested to see more once I can get my hands on the books.