similiar to revenant in ds - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

similiar to revenant in ds

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zylo_drizzt
Aug 30, 2010 20:03:53
I dont want a player to play a warforged, he has a story he put very little thought into, a pile of animated crap. I dont think this is good enough of a story. I dont mind them cause of thier survival traits. I just dont see them as fitting ds cause they magical and metal. so what do i do, he gets real pissed off if i ban ****. now to mention classes, divine is out for me though I got plans for them, however some arcane classes dont fit for me the way they are, swordmages, bards, and artificers. need help with them. also help dealing with players that want to bypass the whole survival thing. I want to punish or at least keep in same line with players that still got to survive. so what do I do about these problems. I have no problem with banning but players might especially if some players like to optimize in certain ways (the one i mention always seems to go with warforged or revenants)
#2
Kalaman666
Aug 31, 2010 7:40:03 Warforged don't have to be metal. He could be wood, stone, etc...
#3
ian.thomson
Aug 31, 2010 9:13:04
Warforged could also be psionic instead of arcane. Instead of paying for survival days, the warforged could have to bribe the city's guards when entering a city, with the cost of the bribes equal to the cost of survival days that would have been spent. You could use skill challenges to sneak in, bluff past the guards, haggle to lower the price, etc, with similar difficulties to making nature checks to survive. Same cost and challenges, just delayed and for different reasons.

In 2e's Veiled Alliance sourcebook, it's mentioned that there are some people that join the VA without actually being wizards, but because they collected enough cheap magic items that they could fake it. I believe the higher ups would have known, but wouldn't have cared because of the extra help these faux-wizards brought. Artificers work well enough for that.

Since proper spellbooks are extremely rare on Athas, oral traditions, such as songs, could easily take their place. Bards could be arcanists that follow such a tradition.

Swordmages work pretty well for templars, who were pretty martial in 2e. They could also represent arcanists who use martial arts katas to memorize spells instead of spellbooks, the sword strokes not meant to actually be effective swordplay but magic sigils.
#4
cnahumck
Aug 31, 2010 10:21:55 I would have it set up that the character doesn't really know who he is. And he is trying to find out. He's not metal, but a combination of stone, wood and obsidian. Make him psionic instead of arcane. He dates from long ago and was made for war. Also, when he rests he dreams of the slaughter of (insert Rebirth race). When he encounters them, his base programing makes him want to attack and slaughter them (best to make the race not a member of the party). While he does not need survival days, he does need repair supplies, which in the end cost the same. Further, sun sickness affects them differently in flavor, but mechanically it is the same.

I say, make it hard on him, and it can be fun for everyone without punishing him.
#5
big_goon
Aug 31, 2010 11:56:57 I'm one of the those advocates against playing Warforged, because I don't like most of the storylines I've seen. That being said, you're a DM and need to play the game with your players.

There's usually 3 reasons why a player would insist on playing a specific race:

1. They want attention, they want to be exotic and cool, they want to stand out. Sometimes that annoys DMs because it means they are 'special', and making a character more 'special' than the other player characters is unfair. On the flip side, it IS fair if all of the players get to partake in the 'special' aspects of that character. Is the Halfling in the party the decendent of the creator of the Warforged? Does the Eladrin in the party know the hidden secret of the Warforge's origin? Does the Dwarf lavish in the tinkercraft of the Warforged?

I'm thinking this isn't the reason, because the player didn't seek to cooperate their backgrounds to sync with your storyline. The player doesn't seem to be wanting to take center stage.

2. They want a cheap way out, they want to optimize, or they want to power-game. I personally don't like this direction, because I don't like powergamers (although I can sometimes be one myself). I like roleplaying and less the encounters. However, it should be clear that, even Warforged, should NEVER be able to waltz pass any challenge. Examples: If a Kirre shows up to eat the party, the Kirre will still attack the Warforged (regardless of whether he's edible); If the party is dying of thirst or sun sickness, the Warforged will have to participate in the same challenge;

In other words, there is no easy way out. Being a Warforged means you are a PC (even if that doesn't make sense at first glance). The warforged will have just as difficult a time as everyone else.

3. They like Warforged.

Honestly, this is the best and only reason why I'd encourage a player to play Warforged. If they like the race, they like the mechanics and they'll enjoy the challenge a Warforged might have in Dark Sun... I would recommoned encouraging the player to play it. You won't have to invent a storyline for their origin or to explain the race, just handwave it. The player enjoys playing Warforged, so just run with it.
#6
gwydion9
Aug 31, 2010 13:03:29

I dont want a player to play a warforged, he has a story he put very little thought into, a pile of animated crap. I dont think this is good enough of a story. I dont mind them cause of thier survival traits. I just dont see them as fitting ds cause they magical and metal. so what do i do, he gets real pissed off if i ban ****.

Well, to be fair, the setting bans most races outright, not you.

Warforged could be made to work within the setting with some adjustment. Just as Athasian tools and weapons are made out of native materials, athasian warforged could also be made out of native materials such as bone, stone, obsidian, etc.

Their lack of need for food and water can be balanced by imposing a paralell mechanic that basically re-creates the survival day mechanic in a different form. Perhaps instead of food, they need oils to coat their joints, polish to keep the sun from cracking their exterior, etc.

As far as RP, you are in control of the setting, so you can decide how native athasians react to warforged. Perhaps they see them as magical monstrosities and attack on sight. Or maybe they see them as curiosities, playthings of the sorceror kings, and nothing more.

now to mention classes, divine is out for me though I got plans for them, however some arcane classes dont fit for me the way they are, swordmages, bards, and artificers.

I don't see that bards and swordmages need any adjustment. They fill the same roles in Athas that they do in other settings. Artificiers might need a little more fluff work, but there are some great ideas in a recent thread about adjusting their fluff so that they specialize in using the arcane constructs and magic of some of the vanished Athasian empires.

need help with them. also help dealing with players that want to bypass the whole survival thing.

Memorize this:

"If you don't want to play survival fantasy, you shouldn't be playing Dark Sun."

Tell them that when they complain. If they hate the mechanic so much that it disrupts the game, then obviously they are not into Dark Sun. Play in a different setting. Eberron offers them plenty of scope to play any race and class they like.

I want to punish or at least keep in same line with players that still got to survive. so what do I do about these problems. I have no problem with banning but players might especially if some players like to optimize in certain ways (the one i mention always seems to go with warforged or revenants)

If he loves the race so much, then it might be better to just work with him to make it fit into the setting. I've alredy seen threads discussing how to fit revenants and warforged into dark sun, use the search feature and locate some of them.

#7
FlashbackJon
Aug 31, 2010 13:07:28
now to mention classes, divine is out for me though I got plans for them, however some arcane classes dont fit for me the way they are, swordmages, bards, and artificers.

I don't see that bards and swordmages need any adjustment. They fill the same roles in Athas that they do in other settings. Artificiers might need a little more fluff work, but there are some great ideas in a recent thread about adjusting their fluff so that they specialize in using the arcane constructs and magic of some of the vanished Athasian empires.

Oh, I missed this in that block of text. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with Bards or Swordmages in the setting, at least, no more or less so than any of the arcane classes.
#8
rollawaythestone
Aug 31, 2010 15:23:50 I agree with Big_Goon. I don't think Warforged fit at all.
#9
gwydion9
Aug 31, 2010 17:39:53 Here is a thread chock-full of ideas on fitting artificiers into Dark Sun:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zylo_drizzt Aug 30, 2010 20:03:53	I dont want a player to play a warforged, he has a story he put very little thought into, a pile of animated crap. I dont think this is good enough of a story. I dont mind them cause of thier survival traits. I just dont see them as fitting ds cause they magical and metal. so what do i do, he gets real pissed off if i ban ****. now to mention classes, divine is out for me though I got plans for them, however some arcane classes dont fit for me the way they are, swordmages, bards, and artificers. need help with them. also help dealing with players that want to bypass the whole survival thing. I want to punish or at least keep in same line with players that still got to survive. so what do I do about these problems. I have no problem with banning but players might especially if some players like to optimize in certain ways (the one i mention always seems to go with warforged or revenants)
#2 Kalaman666 Aug 31, 2010 7:40:03	Warforged don't have to be metal. He could be wood, stone, etc...
#3 ian.thomson Aug 31, 2010 9:13:04	Warforged could also be psionic instead of arcane. Instead of paying for survival days, the warforged could have to bribe the city's guards when entering a city, with the cost of the bribes equal to the cost of survival days that would have been spent. You could use skill challenges to sneak in, bluff past the guards, haggle to lower the price, etc, with similar difficulties to making nature checks to survive. Same cost and challenges, just delayed and for different reasons. In 2e's Veiled Alliance sourcebook, it's mentioned that there are some people that join the VA without actually being wizards, but because they collected enough cheap magic items that they could fake it. I believe the higher ups would have known, but wouldn't have cared because of the extra help these faux-wizards brought. Artificers work well enough for that. Since proper spellbooks are extremely rare on Athas, oral traditions, such as songs, could easily take their place. Bards could be arcanists that follow such a tradition. Swordmages work pretty well for templars, who were pretty martial in 2e. They could also represent arcanists who use martial arts katas to memorize spells instead of spellbooks, the sword strokes not meant to actually be effective swordplay but magic sigils.
#4 cnahumck Aug 31, 2010 10:21:55	I would have it set up that the character doesn't really know who he is. And he is trying to find out. He's not metal, but a combination of stone, wood and obsidian. Make him psionic instead of arcane. He dates from long ago and was made for war. Also, when he rests he dreams of the slaughter of (insert Rebirth race). When he encounters them, his base programing makes him want to attack and slaughter them (best to make the race not a member of the party). While he does not need survival days, he does need repair supplies, which in the end cost the same. Further, sun sickness affects them differently in flavor, but mechanically it is the same. I say, make it hard on him, and it can be fun for everyone without punishing him.
#5 big_goon Aug 31, 2010 11:56:57	I'm one of the those advocates against playing Warforged, because I don't like most of the storylines I've seen. That being said, you're a DM and need to play the game with your players. There's usually 3 reasons why a player would insist on playing a specific race: 1. They want attention, they want to be exotic and cool, they want to stand out. Sometimes that annoys DMs because it means they are 'special', and making a character more 'special' than the other player characters is unfair. On the flip side, it IS fair if all of the players get to partake in the 'special' aspects of that character. Is the Halfling in the party the decendent of the creator of the Warforged? Does the Eladrin in the party know the hidden secret of the Warforge's origin? Does the Dwarf lavish in the tinkercraft of the Warforged? I'm thinking this isn't the reason, because the player didn't seek to cooperate their backgrounds to sync with your storyline. The player doesn't seem to be wanting to take center stage. 2. They want a cheap way out, they want to optimize, or they want to power-game. I personally don't like this direction, because I don't like powergamers (although I can sometimes be one myself). I like roleplaying and less the encounters. However, it should be clear that, even Warforged, should NEVER be able to waltz pass any challenge. Examples: If a Kirre shows up to eat the party, the Kirre will still attack the Warforged (regardless of whether he's edible); If the party is dying of thirst or sun sickness, the Warforged will have to participate in the same challenge; In other words, there is no easy way out. Being a Warforged means you are a PC (even if that doesn't make sense at first glance). The warforged will have just as difficult a time as everyone else. 3. They like Warforged. Honestly, this is the best and only reason why I'd encourage a player to play Warforged. If they like the race, they like the mechanics and they'll enjoy the challenge a Warforged might have in Dark Sun... I would recommoned encouraging the player to play it. You won't have to invent a storyline for their origin or to explain the race, just handwave it. The player enjoys playing Warforged, so just run with it.
#6 gwydion9 Aug 31, 2010 13:03:29	I dont want a player to play a warforged, he has a story he put very little thought into, a pile of animated crap. I dont think this is good enough of a story. I dont mind them cause of thier survival traits. I just dont see them as fitting ds cause they magical and metal. so what do i do, he gets real pissed off if i ban ****. Well, to be fair, the setting bans most races outright, not you. Warforged could be made to work within the setting with some adjustment. Just as Athasian tools and weapons are made out of native materials, athasian warforged could also be made out of native materials such as bone, stone, obsidian, etc. Their lack of need for food and water can be balanced by imposing a paralell mechanic that basically re-creates the survival day mechanic in a different form. Perhaps instead of food, they need oils to coat their joints, polish to keep the sun from cracking their exterior, etc. As far as RP, you are in control of the setting, so you can decide how native athasians react to warforged. Perhaps they see them as magical monstrosities and attack on sight. Or maybe they see them as curiosities, playthings of the sorceror kings, and nothing more. now to mention classes, divine is out for me though I got plans for them, however some arcane classes dont fit for me the way they are, swordmages, bards, and artificers. I don't see that bards and swordmages need any adjustment. They fill the same roles in Athas that they do in other settings. Artificiers might need a little more fluff work, but there are some great ideas in a recent thread about adjusting their fluff so that they specialize in using the arcane constructs and magic of some of the vanished Athasian empires. need help with them. also help dealing with players that want to bypass the whole survival thing. Memorize this: "If you don't want to play survival fantasy, you shouldn't be playing Dark Sun." Tell them that when they complain. If they hate the mechanic so much that it disrupts the game, then obviously they are not into Dark Sun. Play in a different setting. Eberron offers them plenty of scope to play any race and class they like. I want to punish or at least keep in same line with players that still got to survive. so what do I do about these problems. I have no problem with banning but players might especially if some players like to optimize in certain ways (the one i mention always seems to go with warforged or revenants) If he loves the race so much, then it might be better to just work with him to make it fit into the setting. I've alredy seen threads discussing how to fit revenants and warforged into dark sun, use the search feature and locate some of them.
#7 FlashbackJon Aug 31, 2010 13:07:28	now to mention classes, divine is out for me though I got plans for them, however some arcane classes dont fit for me the way they are, swordmages, bards, and artificers. I don't see that bards and swordmages need any adjustment. They fill the same roles in Athas that they do in other settings. Artificiers might need a little more fluff work, but there are some great ideas in a recent thread about adjusting their fluff so that they specialize in using the arcane constructs and magic of some of the vanished Athasian empires. Oh, I missed this in that block of text. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with Bards or Swordmages in the setting, at least, no more or less so than any of the arcane classes.
#8 rollawaythestone Aug 31, 2010 15:23:50	I agree with Big_Goon. I don't think Warforged fit at all.
#9 gwydion9 Aug 31, 2010 17:39:53	Here is a thread chock-full of ideas on fitting artificiers into Dark Sun: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...