It was my understanding up until reading the bolded text that their were no divine classes present in 4e Dark Sun. Does anyone have any clarification about access to divine classes and how it owkrs in 4e Dark Sun? I ask because I have told my players I will be running a Dark Sun campaign and they are already making their characters. I don't want to limit their class choices unnecesarily, but I want to follow the limitations presented within the 4e Dark Sun rules.
The article is stating that it's ok to say "no" to your players. In this case, you might want to include divine classes in YOUR version of Dark Sun, but it's also okay to say "no" to your players who want to play a divine class on Athas.
There will be no official support for divine Dark Sun characters, but anyone can add any of the mechanical material from any 4E supplement if they so desire.
Just reading the "Its OK to say No" article in the Save My Game section of dungeon magazine I found this "Maybe you’re excited about the Dark Sun setting. While you can definitely run that campaign with every one of the rule choices available in 4th Edition (including allowing divine classes), maybe you want to kick it old school."
It was my understanding up until reading the bolded text that their were no divine classes present in 4e Dark Sun. Does anyone have any clarification about access to divine classes and how it owkrs in 4e Dark Sun? I ask because I have told my players I will be running a Dark Sun campaign and they are already making their characters. I don't want to limit their class choices unnecesarily, but I want to follow the limitations presented within the 4e Dark Sun rules.
Officially, the setting will not have divine classes. However DMs are able to do what they want with the setting, including adding divine classes to it. I am sure that is what was meant. So no, the setting by default won't have divine classes, but it is the DM's choice.
What is going to replace the elemental clerics then? They were adding deepness to the setting. IMO. Who's gonna cast the water and such?
I believe the elemental priests are themes now. Any class could take it.
I love the whole Gods are silent idea in Dark Sun and as a player there is no way I would even
consider making a divine class. I think most players would also find they could get what the wanted
in another class and have a more unique Dark Sun experiance. I do not think many DM's will have a
problem with players insisting on divine classes but if that really happens just expalin to them that
thier charater will have to be an idiot savant who thinks he is calling to the gods but is actually such a
good psychic that "thinking" the gods are listening grants him his power.
ive got the idea for a greyhawk timewarp into darksun campaign, where anyone who played the cleric will have a limited amount of divine power from divine echos, but will ultimantly have to multiclass and hybrid into a completely different class.
My darksun started with Tharizdun's awakening (a god so powerful the only way to imprison him is to make him sleep) All of the gods, good and evil had to sacrafice their imortality to defeat him. Thus createing the "darksun" that is truely the corpse of tharizdun. As well all of the gods lived to die from old age or assasination. BUT there is one left.. Bahaumut.. being a platinum dragon has a long lifespan. This is the dragon of Tyr, well "was"... the imbalance of good vs evil has turned him for the worse...
Tharizdun's Corpse = The Dark Sun
Mortal Bahamut Alter Ego = The dragon of Tyr
Divine power = echos from the past
If any of my players want to play divine as a native darksuner, they can go find another group
What is going to replace the elemental clerics then? They were adding deepness to the setting. IMO. Who's gonna cast the water and such?
Any of the primal classes, specifically, but especially the shaman, with the Elemental Priest theme, would fulfill such a role (I'd wager the Elemental Priest theme will have options to satisfy most of the needs of a player to fulfill the role of a priest of _____; i.e. air, earth, fire, water, etc).
I suppose arcane classes specialized in the appropriate element, who do NOT take arcane defiling, would also be a solid path to take.
Plus...we have the actual Elemental power source coming out in the next year or two.
Any official statement about the Elemental power source?
Dunno about that, but I'd guess it would be primal. That's the most logical, I think.
Any official statement about the Elemental power source?
While I hope we get the elemental power stuff, I doubt we will hear anything about it til late next year or the year after.
@Tectuktitlay: Found any official statement about the Elemental power source being a comfirmed future source?
If I recall, when they scrapped Ki because it was turning into the "Oriental Power Source," we were told that Shadow and Elemental were still considered viable and in development.
Silly me, I forgot about the elemental power source.
So did wotc...
If I recall you could be clerics in original dark sun release but you worshipped an element. I will be allowing clerics that function in that way.
Yes, the elemental clerics... which from the looks of things, have become an Elemental Priest theme in the DS4 setting. I'm curious how those will look before I make any judgments about whether I want divine power in my campaigns or not. Honestly, I might let it in, in some fashion, or retrofit some classes. I had a spin on paladins in DS3 that my players especially enjoyed (fanatical servants of the sorcerer-kings), and I'd like that kind of idea in DS4... so I might at least somewhat retrofit some of the divine spellcasters to being based on a different power source if I don't let divine power in my Dark Sun games.
I believe in the first box set for DS it stated that divine power included three different types of individuals: templars (magic from SKs), clerics (magic from elements), and priests (magic from something I cannot remember).
The third one would be "druids (magic from the spirits of the land)"
They would have either been some sort of missionary for an existing god that found a way to sneak power into Athas or perhaps they had visions of Oronis who is on his way to becoming a god in Athas.
I believe in the first box set for DS it stated that divine power included three different types of individuals: templars (magic from SKs), clerics (magic from elements), and priests (magic from something I cannot remember).
Of course, a lot of that was an attempt to make a place for classes in 2e that didn't necessarily fit in Dark Sun, and divine classes back then were the only healers... so a lot of effort was made to make it work with the AD&D classes.
4E, in my opinion, does a better job of depicting Dark Sun, with the character themes, from what I've seen. And the removal of the divine source of power makes some good, logical sense to me.
Templars are now a theme, although one can have a warlock pact with a sorcerer-king if one chooses that for their character concept or throught the warlock multi-class feat. As a theme it opens up the different types of templars there can be.
Divine clerics are gone, but there are more characters that can now fill the role that the priest class used to fill in 2E. Warlords, bards, artificers, ardents, shamans; plenty of options to pick up where one class left off.
Druids are now a primal class which actually fits them as they were originally.
That being said, from a purely fluff perspective, Invokers should still function just fine, given that they don't remotely rely on the gods for their divine power. Runepriests should function for similar reasons.
True, but they function because divine power exists on Athas. What if the world simply is devoid of any kind of divine power? Then neither of those would function.
That being said, from a purely fluff perspective, Invokers should still function just fine, given that they don't remotely rely on the gods for their divine power.
*Blink*
Invoker fluff.
"You, however, channel you god's power directly."
They are tied, fluff-wise, directly to their god.
Now, that being said, I see no reason one can not fluff the divine classes to fit into the Dark Sun setting. Runepriests would be interesting with reading and writing being so controlled. I would think they would be hunted out of hand for their use of something which could be interpreted as reading and writing.
@Tectuktitlay: Found any official statement about the Elemental power source being a confirmed future source?
When the Ki source was scrapped a lot of people started saying Shadow and Elemental would be too. Mike Mearls stated in an ENWorld thread in response to this that the developers had looked at Shadow and Elemental and had determined them to be viable, and were developing them. Since then Shadow has been officially released, and in this month's Tiefling Racebook there is a direct mention of Elemental magic as something that is separate from Arcane or Primal or Divine.
So yes, Elemental is confirmed. We just don't know when it will come. Since we're getting the "Heroes of Shaddow" next March instead of PHB4, it's possible that either PHB4 will come out later next year with Elemental, or there may be a Heroes of Elements next year, or maybe there'll be a class in Dragon, or maybe it'll be two more years. But it is coming.
A Dark Sun article is sure to follow on the heels of the Elemental power source, stating how it can be (re)integrated into Athas.