So, why is it exactly that halflings have no language of their own in the campaign setting, only the human trade tongue (common)? Wouldn't a race that is xenophobic and has minimal contact with the outside world be more likely to have their own language than, say, dwarves, who are pretty much a fully integrated minority that can be found in decent numbers in every city-state?
See, here's the problem. The fluff/flavor text tells me that halflings are different in Athas. They're wild, scary, untamed jungle-dwelling pygmies who think you taste good with ketchup.
The mechanics tell me that they're just cute little human children with no culture of their own to speak of, so they just sponge off of human culture. Same as the core 4e halfling, or the 3.x halfling, for that matter.
So, which is right, the flavor text or the mechanics?
I'm generally satisfied with the Dark Sun Campaign setting, but the fluff and the mechanics are at odds with each other regarding halflings. Halflings are savage, feral cannibals (except they're not actually cannibals because they don't eat other halflings), and they are primitive, pseudo-neolithic primal tribals, like the Na'vi, who sequester themselves in Forest Ridge and seldom deal with outside races except when placing them in a cooking pot.
So, why is it exactly that halflings have no language of their own in the campaign setting, only the human trade tongue (common)? Wouldn't a race that is xenophobic and has minimal contact with the outside world be more likely to have their own language than, say, dwarves, who are pretty much a fully integrated minority that can be found in decent numbers in every city-state?
Because people speaking common are actually speaking Halfling.
See, here's the problem. The fluff/flavor text tells me that halflings are different in Athas. They're wild, scary, untamed jungle-dwelling pygmies who think you taste good with ketchup.
The mechanics tell me that they're just cute little human children with no culture of their own to speak of, so they just sponge off of human culture. Same as the core 4e halfling, or the 3.x halfling, for that matter.
So, which is right, the flavor text or the mechanics?
The mechanics just say that they are agile (+2 dex, skill bonuses, nimble reaction, second chance), have a strong personality (+2 cha does not mean cute because Dragonborn get +2 cha), and are small. The mechanics do not say "cute children." The mechanics do not deny the possibility that the agility aren't funsy little acrobatics but a deadly hunter, the mechanics do not deny the possibility that the strong personality is from being intimidating and having the oldest culture on the planet, the mechanics do not say that they sponge off human culture.
I'm generally satisfied with the Dark Sun Campaign setting, but the fluff and the mechanics are at odds with each other regarding halflings. Halflings are savage, feral cannibals (except they're not actually cannibals because they don't eat other halflings), and they are primitive, pseudo-neolithic primal tribals, like the Na'vi, who sequester themselves in Forest Ridge and seldom deal with outside races except when placing them in a cooking pot.
So, why is it exactly that halflings have no language of their own in the campaign setting, only the human trade tongue (common)? Wouldn't a race that is xenophobic and has minimal contact with the outside world be more likely to have their own language than, say, dwarves, who are pretty much a fully integrated minority that can be found in decent numbers in every city-state?
Because people speaking common are actually speaking Halfling.
So, common in Athas is actually halfling? That's an interesting theory, but what are you basing it on? The fact that halflings are the oldest race in the setting? I don't want to get into a whole linguistics debate with you, but generally, what happens when societies live in complete isolation for thousands of years, this is where languages come from.
So, either halfling "common" would have evolved into a new, more gutteral language, or else humans would have developed and propagated their own evolved language after they took over the planet and became the dominant race thanks to the sorcerer-kings (the latter theory seems more likely).
IOW, if halfling was the common tongue several millenia ago, it is hard to imagine it being that way now, with humans calling the shots and dictating culture by making up the majority of sorcerer-kings, templars, and nobles (certainly not ALL are human, but surely you wouldn't argue that goliaths or thri-kreen were the standard by which all other civilizations are measured in Athas).See, here's the problem. The fluff/flavor text tells me that halflings are different in Athas. They're wild, scary, untamed jungle-dwelling pygmies who think you taste good with ketchup.
The mechanics tell me that they're just cute little human children with no culture of their own to speak of, so they just sponge off of human culture. Same as the core 4e halfling, or the 3.x halfling, for that matter.
WotC said "no more divine anything" - no divine powers, no divine classes, no divine rituals, and presumably, no Religion skill either - at least, no skill challenges anywhere in the CS reference it.
Would adding a single language really be a greater violation of 4e's prior Prime Directive regarding not tampering with the core than eliminating an entire power source? That's all I'm saying. It's easily house ruled, so it isn't a huge deal, I'm just surprised by the reasoning, since none is given. Yours is purely fabrication, although a compelling fabrication.
So, which is right, the flavor text or the mechanics?
The mechanics just say that they are agile (+2 dex, skill bonuses, nimble reaction, second chance), have a strong personality (+2 cha does not mean cute because Dragonborn get +2 cha), and are small. The mechanics do not say "cute children." The mechanics do not deny the possibility that the agility aren't funsy little acrobatics but a deadly hunter, the mechanics do not deny the possibility that the strong personality is from being intimidating and having the oldest culture on the planet, the mechanics do not say that they sponge off human culture.
I wasn't demanding halflings have a bonus to Nature or whatever stereotypical skills a jungle hunter must have - I was only talking about the mechanical lack of a language and nothing else. Thank you for overstating my minor criticism and making it into a straw man to attack.
IIRC in the Vertdant Passage, the Halflings speak their own language and the Rhul-thuan even have another dialekt. But anyway. 4E DS isn't perfect but YOU are the DM, you make your fluff.
Thank you Masato, I know that I can, and I will.
I'm sure it will go unnoticed by many DMs and players, but I see it as an excellent opportunity when using halflings as NPCs/antagonists, and not as player characters in a party. Languages are not really super important in 4E, at least not when dealing with other player races, because they almost always speak Common. You would usually only need to know a language if you wanted to talk to a monster, or if you wanted to try and impress an elf or dwarf with how cool you are.
But if Halfling was a language in canon DS CS 4E, it would make halflings met in an encounter seem that much more bewildering and frightening - especially if the party wants to resolve the situation non-violently and explain what they were doing in the jungle. In that sense, a halfling language serves a greater purpose than satisfying fluff logic - it also serves to give player characters who speak Halfling additional options when dealing with a halfling encounter.
If Common is the only natural language for halflings, it begs the question - why would they need or want to speak the language of food?
Think about movies like Apocalypto, Dances with Wolves, and Avatar. Weren't they more interesting because of the obscure languages the tribes used in them? The thri-kreen language was wisely kept in the game, and it serves this purpose wonderfully, with its clicks and whirrs that are extremely difficult for humans to reproduce.
So, which is right, the flavor text or the mechanics?
Halfling backround for Dark Sun is solid but I'd say the info on the languages table is an oversight.
After all, halflings are one of the oldest in the world ('stewards of all the land' as the book puts it). If that's the case, their native tongue might even be one which more modern tongues take influence from. Maybe Common is the most directly influenced. 'Course halflings being an ancient race is according to their own myths ;), so maybe a grain of salt is in order?
A few rambling thoughts.
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So, which is right, the flavor text or the mechanics?
Halfling backround for Dark Sun is solid but I'd say the info on the languages table is an oversight.
After all, halflings are one of the oldest in the world ('stewards of all the land' as the book puts it). If that's the case, their native tongue might even be one which more modern tongues take influence from. Maybe Common is the most directly influenced. 'Course halflings being an ancient race is according to their own myths ;), so maybe a grain of salt is in order?
A few rambling thoughts ;).
/\ Art
That is very true. The ancient origin of halflings was canon in 2e but it could definitely be just a myth in 4e. But if halflings ARE a young race, it only raises further questions about why they lack a language of their own. Did they go feral 100 years ago or something? My only concern is that it doesn't really make a lot of sense.
Considering even the most integrated and assimilated races, like dwarves and goliaths, who are described in the fluff for both 2e and 4e to be more or less lacking a homeland so they just share the human homeland....they still get racial languages. So what is the reason for giving a race that lives completely independent of humans no racial language? Why do dwarves speak dwarven, goliaths speak giant, thri-kreen speak thri-kreen, but halflings do not speak halfling?
My only point for bringing this up is because I feel like it was not because it was deliberately intended that way for the flavor/fluff of the new Dark Sun, but it was more of an accidental oversight from the copypasta of the 4e core halfling. And that bothers me somewhat.
[My only point for bringing this up is because I feel like it was not because it was deliberately intended that way for the flavor/fluff of the new Dark Sun, but it was more of an accidental oversight from the copypasta of the 4e core halfling. And that bothers me somewhat.
That's the same reason it doesn't bother me, because its obviously a copy/paste error. If it were deliberate, then I'd be annoyed ;). As it is, mistakes happen. If it comes up in our games, I plan on hand-waving it to say halflings have their own language. Like most speaking creatures, they also speak a little Common (even the na'vi from Avatar used a few English words-- 'Stupid! Like a baby!' sping to mind ;)) [The scene where she first meets the marine and insults him for being too noisy].
In this Blue Age (complete with a young blue sun), the halflings were master "biomancers" with the power to manipulate and create life. Somehow, some plague decimated the world and the halfings built the Pristine Tower to draw power from the sun to desstroy the plague. The result ended in most of the water draining away and the sun becoming yellow. The halfings left their Tower and traveled this new world and some of them "evolved" (mutated) into dwarves, elves, humans, etc.
If this is true, then the halflings are technically cannibals because the other races they are eating came from them. haha It would also explain their lack of a language because, as ian.thompson said, Common is actually Halfling. :P
I like the idea of a halfling language because halflings being not only automatically fluent in common but lacking a dialect of their own means they also lack a sense of cultural uniqueness, making them the "Little Human" race like in 4e core that squats in human settlements instead of having its own homeland. Dark Sun halflings have a homeland. They need a language to go with it. But meh, that's just my feelings, YMMV.
In 2e, common was the Trade Tongue, the language merchants developed so that denizens of each city-state could communicate with each other. 2e halflings didn't even comprehend the concept of currency, ceramic pieces we so much valueless urban stones. So 2e halfling civilization adopting the Trade Tongue is an even greater absurdity.
4e ditched the notion that every city-state had its own language, everyone everywhere speaks Common. Because it is un-fun, I guess, to deal with illiteracy and not speaking the language. I can sympathize. Codifying handwavium most of us did.
It's an oversight by the designers, plain and simple.
If halflings really should not have their own language in 4e because of the KISS rule, I cannot see any reason for the other PC races to have an automatic language other than Common and/or a language of their choice. If the goal is simply to streamline languages, might as well have every PC race speak Common, lack a unique racial language, and languages become tools for communicating with monsters and nothing more. (and since so far none of my players have shown a hint of interest in playing a halfling, they seem far more likely to be an encounter for players in my games, and thus more likely to be non-Common speaking).
I don't want to get into a whole linguistics debate with you, but generally, what happens when societies live in complete isolation for thousands of years, this is where languages come from.
D&D, alas, does not subscribe to the principles of linguistics. Languages are set in stone at the beginning of time and never vary. What's more, languages that have the same name are identical in every part of the multiverse, use the same alphabets regardless of campaign world, and are never locally idiomatic. Sadly, this is not hyperbole - there's actually a campaign setting out there where this was one of the fundamental premises of the setting.
Oh, and Common is English. So gamers who speak any other language are doing it wrong
Perhaps in their descent into barbarism, the halflings lost their original language. idk
In 4e, the ancient language spoken by almost every member of the "original race" was common. We don't know if the original race was halfling or human in this new edition of the setting. (unless I missed something in the book) For all we know, Pyreen were the original race and every other race spawned from them. The last true pyreen could have been rajaat, if rajaat is even a pyreen in this version of darksun.
In the PoL creation fluff, halflings are among the newer races to be created, after humans, elves and dwarves. So it's impossible to say, since the 2e fluff doesn't help much, nor does the 4e PoL fluff. It's 100% speculation. The halfling lore in the CC tells us that halflings are "among the oldest" of the speaking people, but not the oldest. The CC also doesn't include a Pyreen monster write up, which sucks since that's less info on them. Which says that pyreen are probably extinct and only a player character can usher in a return of the pyreen race, which would probably cause serious consequences. The SK's would probably want to kill any pyreen for fear of another warbringer. Assuming Rajaat is still a pyreen in this edition.
[edit] Actually, it is quite clear the neither halflings nor humans were the first race.
That said, this is a world which has been shaped by multiple forms of magic, not the least of which was the biomancy of the halflings. It's entirely possible that knowledge of Common was something they halflings actually bred into themselves and the new races of Athas at the start of the Green Age. Perhaps the halflings were concerned that the new races would war amongst themselves and so built into their biology a shared language, so that they would always find a way to communicate their differences in a manner other than war. Having once possessed a single civilization, halflings would likely have been reluctant to surrender it.
This is not to say that humans and elves are born knowing Common, but that their are subtle genetic cues in the humanoid races that lead them to use certain sounds for certain ideas, enough so that it's very hard for Common to drift. The halflings may have even utilized psionics for this purpose: something like a psionic akashic record might exist from which creatures skilled in the Way draw their understanding of language.
Under the idea that Common is a genetic language, racial languages might be more natural or likewise genetic. Halflings may have anticipated that the elves might need terminology of their own to describe their unique lives to one another, for instance. On the other hand, halflings might have designed genetic Common only as a skeleton framework language, on which other languages could be built. In this way, different cities and races could develop their own modes of speech, but there would always be a common core of linquistics between them.
Halflings speak common for the same reason nearly everything else with a language speaks common; you shouldn't have to expend a resource (a background or the Linguist feat) to be able to interact with NPCs.
Slight misunderstanding here; the original reason for the rant was because halflings do not speak halfling. It's as simple as this :
in 3.x and 4e, halflings do not have a language of their own because they do not generally have a culture of their own. They're just minorities that populate human settlements.
In Dark Sun, halflings live alone in a jungle where they have almost no contact with the outside world, except to hunt it and eat it. I guess if you want you could just say that halflings speak the human trade tongue in their remote jungle villages, but it makes as much sense as taking away Dwarven and Elven as languages. Hopefully we can let this thread die soon.
Since Halflings ruled the world once and Humans rule it now, the world speaks it to get along. If the Common spoke in the Green (or unmentioned Blue) Age differed any from the present Common, the changes have been lost to both races.
In any case, a remote tribe that speaks Ancient Common, or a ruin or artifact covered in the same, would be a fantastic story hook.
I think some of you are doing mental gymnastics to keep from suggesting that there might be any need for errata at all.
Of course, nothing implies that it is the exact same, nor does it need to: the language humans have been using as a trade language for thousands of years is the same language the halflings speak. The two cultures still interact. As an American, I can still understand English speakers after 200 years, I'm pretty sure I'll still understand them in a few thousand. I can listen to a German or French conversation and pick up on context via cognates alone.
Even if you did need some sort of outlandish justification, they're pretty easy to come by: the Champions, who spoke the same language as the civilized halflings, are still around, ruling the crap out of everyone. If Julius Caesar was still alive and ruling the world as a nigh-omnipotent god-figure, I'm pretty confident we'd all be speaking virtually the same Latin he spoke 2000 years ago.
Your idea is clever, and a useful tool for any Athasian DM's toolbox. But there's no gymnastics required. And certainly no errata.
So there's absolutely no chance whatsoever that pyreens or some other race created common and then the races split apart? Which means when the races split apart, every other race decided it wanted its own language, except humans and halflings. You're trying to force the unaltered core rules to fit the lore.
In 4e, there is no mention of the rebirth. So that's entirely up to the DM. How did the races come to be? Was it the 2e version of the rebirth? Was it the pyreen? Was it the gods? We have no idea. We just know that halflings are no longer the first race and it's very likely that the other races didn't spawn from halflings.
As for athasian halflings having their own language. I think they would and should. Mine do. Some won't even remember the ancient common tongue IMG.